Issue about the cham genocide

[Morphesau]

Originally Posted by yannis-3

Apo tin Ekpompi “Mixani tou Xronou” gia ton Napoleon Zerva
Einai to apospasma pou anaferete stin periptosi ton Tsamidon
An mporei kapoios na tou balei Ypotitloys
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBp5aoE-5MY

[YOUTUBE] [/YOUTUBE]

Metafrasi mesa sto youtube, kseri kanenas pos ? Yia tous ksenous h tous Alvanous pou den kseroun Ellinika.

[tymphaios]

Originally Posted by TirAlb

So olvios what is this greek priest doing?




Here is Napoleon Zervas with his Nazi "enemies":

Picture 1: Oh, a volunteer, about to enlist in the Wermacht? What are you suggesting? Where and when was this picture taken? As far as anyone can tell, this picture shows an orthodox priest among civilians with two soldiers, possibly Germans writing something down. Maybe a wedding? Is the priest swatting at a fly, about to slap the German, swearing he is an honest man? It is certainly no Nazi salute, if that is what you are suggesting.

Picture 2: Another orthodox priest among people in their Sunday best (and this was in an occupied land) being saluted by a German officer. Probably during a Sunday mass I should think, maybe a wedding or some other ceremony. What is the problem? Not in Epirus I should think, as it was occupied I believe by the Italians. What is the relevance with Epirus? Explain.

Picture 3: Some armed rebels from the Bundesarchiv (postwar). Possibly Greek. At the far end there is an unarmed man apparently wearing a German officer's hat. He is sitting down and nobody is paying much attention to him. What is going on, I ask you? German prisoner? A negotiation? A guy with a hat?

Compare with this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/21st_Wa..._(1st_Albanian)

Not only the Albanians but the Italians and Germans had also left Greece by 1944. And for a good reason.

[TirAlb]

Oh thanks that wiki link just enlightened me....it was "full" of interesting stuff.

[akritas]

TirAlb if happen genocide do you know the number of the victims ?
Is there any international organization that confirm the "genocide" of the Chams ?

[Draco]

If (reliable) independent academics certify that a genocide happened to the Chams, I have no problem with the idea; I don't deny reality (like the Turkish government does). Do such academics exist though? What are their views on the Greeks expelled from Turkey, the Germans expelled from Czechoslovakia and Poland, etc? How about the (past and future) fate of the Serbs in Kosovo?

Also, if a genocide did happen, it is not the responsibility of the Greek government. It was perpetrated by EDES, a rebel group akin to the UCK (except EDES was fighting an illegal occupation and not against lawful sovereignty).

[TirAlb]

Akritas probably you are right,its true no evidences no crime,and those chams in Albania and their testimonys are not enough because its only their word against Greek word.And theres one last detail,all that happend on greek soil,a little bit hard to investigate without your permisson.
However im not here to prove anything i don't have to and im not able,i know what happend there and why,and you know as well,thats important.There are people denying the Holocaust around,so im not that naive to think that Greece its not able to hide and distort a such small eveniment in comparision to all that giant thing called WW2.

[tymphaios]

Originally Posted by TirAlb

Oh thanks that wiki link just enlightened me....it was "full" of interesting stuff.

Where do you guys come from? How educated were your schoolteachers? Why can you not have the decency to be in peace with your neighbours. The information you want is here, if you are looking for public embarassment.

"The 21st SS Division Skanderbeg was a Waffen SS Mountain division set up by Heinrich Himmler in March 1944, officially under the title of the 21st Waffen-Gebirgs Division der SS Skanderbeg (Albanische Nr. 1). It was named after George Kastrioti Skanderbeg, the national hero of Albanians who resisted Ottoman invasion for 25 years, and united Albanian princes under one national banner. The division was set up mostly from 4,000 prisoners of Albanian nationality. After the wars end, the division was accused of having committed thousands of war crimes, mostly against Serbs in Montenegro and Kosovo."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/21st_Wa...st_Albanian%29

I don't know what prisoners were these, as the Albanians were on the same side as the Italians and the Germans.

[Paulos Melas]

TirAlb for the holocaust and the great calamity there is undeniable evidence.
If there was such a thing as cham genocide it would have been recorded at some oficial files like the one of foreign office.
But none exist. So it is not about the albanian against the greek word. It is simply a proposition with no supporting evidence thus the claims about the chams are simply forgery. Otherwise please bring fourth some concrete evidence and we can discuss further.
For the time being people look at chams and see the men of Balli Kombetar who sent thousands of Greek jews to Auschwitz and Birkenau. If there is justice to be done then Albania must pay its part for its noted attrocities against the greek christian and greek jewish polulations in greece.
Chams might be predominalty Muslim but they weared the svastika cross with great pride and have commited a massive number of attrocities against the greeks and particularly the greek jewish.
So instead of crying out about a fake genocide it would be better to accept your shame and pay tribute to the victims of your attrocities.

[Draco]

We have all heard Albanian nationalist rhetoric regarding "Çamëria" and how it should go independent or unite with a "Greater Albania". I'm confused though, it's a fact that there is minimal Albanian presence there (either national or linguistic) and that it cannot be the object of proper irredentism like Kosovo or west FYROM. What do Albanians want?

[gmellos]

they have rights to nothing!!! Albanians from that region betrayed us to the Nazis in hopes of uniting that region with ALbania!! Also they are responsible for detportation of over 2000 Romaniote Jews to their deaths! They got what they deserved!!!