Northern Epirus

[TirAlb]

Originally Posted by chicagogeorge

You implied it.




So it's a conspiracy against the Albanian nationality! How about all the travelers to Epirus from western Europe who have eyewitness accounts which I also posted?

Call it whatever you want,but it is a fact.
What eywitnesses,Disraeli?

My dearest Father,

I wrote to Ralph from Malta, and to you from Corfu, and left the letters to be forwarded by the October packet, when it arrived, if it ever did, of which to-day there is a report here. It was so late after its time that it was quite despaired of. Doubtless, however, you have received my letters by some source or other. I mentioned in my letter to you, that there was a possibility of our paying the Grand Vizier a visit at his quarters at Yanina, the capital of Albania.

Please do.

or Lord Byron?

My dear Mother,

I have now been some time in Turkey. The place is on the coast but I have traversed the interior of the province of Albania on a visit to the Pacha. I left Malta in the Spider, a brig of war, on the 21st of September and arrived in eight days at Prevesa. I thence have been about 150 miles as far as Tepaleen, his highness' country palace, where I staid three days. The name of the Pacha is Ali, and he is considered a man of the first abilities, he governs the whole of Albania (the ancient Illyricum), Epirus and part of Macedonia.

Schools were also in Bulgarian and Romanian as well...... As for why the head of the church was in Istanbul. What could I tell you. It was always there? 1000 years before the Turks arrived? At least 40% of the population if Istanbul was Greek in the late 1800's? What is your point? The Greeks were the first to break away from the Ottoman Empire.....

In Albania there were only Greek or Turkish schools,and not Albanian.
As for the head of the church:But you were such a great enemies with Turks,how was possible that you had your churchs your schools,you head-quarter in the the capital of the moslem ottoman empire(not byzantine anymore).
And precisely Albanians and Greeks were the first to break away from the ottoman empire.

[chicagogeorge]

Originally Posted by TirAlb

Call it whatever you want,but it is a fact.
What eywitnesses,Disraeli?

As opposed to the numerous western travelers that I posted

or Lord Byron?

As for Byron.....


Here is short poem about the Souli and how he wishes the Hellenes be free again



and further more from his memoirs... Look at the box in red as he comments on the Greeks of Janina

Pamphlets relating to English history The eastern question Janina 1877




The Works of Lord Byron Page 757

Here he clearly considers Epirus as a part of Greece, and that the Greeks of Janina speak purer Greek than those of Athens.....

In Albania there were only Greek or Turkish schools,and not Albanian.
As for the head of the church:But you were such a great enemies with Turks,how was possible that you had your churchs your schools,you head-quarter in the the capital of the moslem ottoman empire(not byzantine anymore).

Because the Greek Orthodox church was in charge of all of the Christian population within the Ottoman Empire. IMHO, the heads of the Church were friendly with the Sultan, but on the local level, the church secretly supported the Greek revolution.

And precisely Albanians and Greeks were the first to break away from the ottoman empire.

Albanians were the first to break away? To my knowledge Albania gained independence on 28th of November 1912 right? Albania's territorial integrity was confirmed at the Paris Peace Conference in 1919, Greece became a state with Treaty of Constantinople in July 1832.

[Grace]

what enemies? Greece thrived during Ottoman times and they were all over the Sultan's divan. Life probably would not have been better under a Christian ruler anyway. Now the church is trying to be relevant and seem as the savior. Do they mention the tax that everyone paid for the Church and how the Church helped Turks collect the tax? Do you think that they average Albanian, Muslim or Christian alike, was really living large?

As for Epirus: Greeks apparently still are not happy: you have Old Macedonia, Crete, most of Cyprus, Thrace and every island, yet you want more. You have very little to gain and much more to lose. Turkey could use a few islands, Bulgaria is self-explained and Albania will have a modern army soon with 7 million Albanians hanging around the Balkans.

Be happy and thank the powers and the ancient Greeks who impressed the big powers. They liberated you, gave all you wanted and even made you rich despite your military coups and hate you seems to have for the West. Be thankful. Without them, Greece would have no independence and be like the country no one helped, Albania.

[chicagogeorge]

Originally Posted by Grace

what enemies? Greece thrived during Ottoman times and they were all over the Sultan's divan. Life probably would not have been better under a Christian ruler anyway. Now the church is trying to be relevant and seem as the savior. Do they mention the tax that everyone paid for the Church and how the Church helped Turks collect the tax? Do you think that they average Albanian, Muslim or Christian alike, was really living large?

I am no fan of the church by any means, and yes they church leaders manipulated their followers.

As for Epirus: Greeks apparently still are not happy:

The Greeks who live in Albania may not be happy, but the Greek state is happy with the current borders.

you have Old Macedonia, Crete, most of Cyprus, Thrace and every island, yet you want more.

Greece is a member of NATO and the EU. Greece has no ambitions on any extension of it's borders. This cannot be said for her neighbors in the north. No one wants more in the Balkans than the Albanians (Kosovo, Tetovo ring a bell?) and the Slavo Skopians who march demonstrating a Greater Albania and a Great Makedonskia.

You have very little to gain and much more to lose.

Turkey could use a few islands

Bulgaria is self-explained and Albania will have a modern army soon with 7 million Albanians hanging around the Balkans.

Albania will have a today's army in 20 years, this only with the her entrance into NATO which Greece voted YES to btw.

Be happy and thank the powers and the ancient Greeks who impressed the big powers.

They liberated you, gave all you wanted

Just like Kosovo was liberated by NATO right!

and even made you rich despite your military coups and hate you seems to have for the West.

One military coup that lasted 7 years which was supported by the west, in the last 60 and many double standards by our dearest Philhellenes friends in the West.

Be thankful. Without them, Greece would have no independence and be like the country no one helped, Albania.

Of course the west had their own self interests in helping dismantle the Ottoman Empire, but it wasn't like the Greeks were operating many successful revolts without them. Don't forget over the course of 400 years, many parts of historic Greece revolted. Crete alone had 500 uprisings, and the Chora Sfakia region was never really under Turkish control.
Last time I checked before Albanian Independence. the vast majority of Albanians were in service for the Sultan, and during the Balkan Wars Italy was buddy buddy with Italy for her own self interests.

[chicagogeorge]

The situation in Southern Albania during and following World War II....


Albania in the Twentieth Century, A History: 3 Volume Set
By Owen Pearson

[helios]

Bayron is very clear about Hellenes: they are Albanians.

[helios]

And they speak a form of Illyrian language.

[helios]

And they live in Epirus which is just a geografical region.

[helios]

QUOTE=chicagogeorge;81838]As opposed to the numerous western travelers that I posted

As for Byron.....

Here is short poem about the Souli and how he wishes the Hellenes be free again

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/569...ronpoemnr4.jpg

and further more from his memoirs... Look at the box in red as he comments on the Greeks of Janina

Pamphlets relating to English history The eastern question Janina 1877

http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/327...gtoenglmw9.jpg


The Works of Lord Byron Page 757

Here he clearly considers Epirus as a part of Greece, and that the Greeks of Janina speak purer Greek than those of Athens.....

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/211...ronpagere4.jpg

Because the Greek Orthodox church was in charge of all of the Christian population within the Ottoman Empire. IMHO, the heads of the Church were friendly with the Sultan, but on the local level, the church secretly supported the Greek revolution.

Albanians were the first to break away? To my knowledge Albania gained independence on 28th of November 1912 right? Albania's territorial integrity was confirmed at the Paris Peace Conference in 1919, Greece became a state with Treaty of Constantinople in July 1832.[/quote]

I seperated one of your pages, this one:

Let me go step by step,

In Yanina people speak even an worse Greek than in Athene(capital of Greece).

that means that for the Yaninians and Athenians the Greek is not their mother tongue.

and then:

whose mother tongue is Illyrie(which means Albanian).

Do you understand now Chicagogeorge??

[chicagogeorge]

Originally Posted by helios

And they live in Epirus which is just a geografical region.

Epirus and the Epirotes represented both a geographic and tribal designation of a northerly Greek region and tribe.


byron is clear

so did the following authors of this book



The Great war ... - Page 163
by George Henry Allen, Henry C. Whitehead, French Ensor Chadwick, William Sowden Sims, James William McAndrew, Edwin Wiley - World War, 1914-1918 - 1919