Souliotes

[chicagogeorge]

Originally Posted by Grace

Simple, the Souliotes fought for getting rid of the Turks.

And fought Albanians serving under the Turks.

There was no idea on what country to form there, at least not for the average klepht. It isn't as romatic as you make it seem.

There was no romance at all. They Souliotes took part in the same revolution to create a free Greek state.

http://www.lib.msu.edu/sowards/balkan/lecture6.html Many Greeks fought forthe Turks, and Greek shipowners were helping Turks as well.

The vast majority of Greeks did not fight for Turks, many stayed neutral to keep their lofty positions within the Ottoman Empire.

And don' forget that Ali Pasha fired the first shot, by essentially declaring independence.

Ali Pasha fired the first shot at the Sultan who employed him

The definitive rift between Ali Pasha and the Sultan occurred in 1820. The Sultan had appointed a new pasha, who laid siege to Ioannina in August of 1820. Ali Pasha barricaded himself inside the city, relying on its strength and on alliances with the local warlords (although his diplomatic ties with European powers came to nothing). It was to be a war of attrition. Thanks to his military might and his vast fortune, Ali Pasha held out for fourteen months, but as his allies fell away he gave up the city and retired to a final strong point. As long as he lived, he could still hope to buy off some of his besiegers and might even have managed to win back favor with the Sultan. Had he done so, not he, but at least one of his sons or grandsons could have become pasha in his place and everything could slowly have been rebuilt.

If Ali Pasha had won the war, would he have established an independent state? This would have needed not only international recognition, but an ideological foundation, a sense of nationhood. He appears to have thought of proposing a collective form of government, a kind of European constitution, yet at the same time he was trying to reconcile with the Sultan by offering to resign in favour of his youngest son Salih. When the Greek revolution broke out in 1821, however, the first thing the revolutionaries did was to address the European states, proclaiming the independence of the Greek nation. In other words, the ultimate aim was inherent before military victories made it apparent.

But it was politics, not military victories, that finally brought about Greek independence. The Great Powers of Europe had decided on independence, and quite naturally they imposed it. The Greeks proved their determination to fight for the right to freedom; and although in the short term the Sultan overpowered them, his victory was short-lived. The Greek struggle became part of the movement for nationalism, an international movement which was gradually to win over Europe and the rest of the world. Whether illusory or not, Greek ethnicity had the wind in its favor - and that is the major difference between it and Ali Pasha's rebellion.

Ali Pasha imagined himself as a Sultan, with Ioannina as a miniature Constantinople, with palaces surrounded by high walls. But despite his tolerance towards intellectuals and their activities, his plan did not allow for setting up printing-presses to spread Greek nationalistic ideas. By contrast, in Greek communities during or even before the revolution, on many levels ideology led society and even the economy. These two attitudes, of Ali Pasha on the one hand and the Greek-speaking merchant class on the other, define the situation. Ali Pasha's profits were transformed into buildings, castles, flocks and land. In contrast, the shared Greek language held the merchant class together, wherever they happened to live, and part of the profits from trade went into the creation of schools, libraries, books and periodicals. The flourishing of intellectual activity created a strong network which brought many more people together under the same roof, while the Greek language, the mother tongue of many merchants, almost automatically forged a bond between them and the European intelligentsia.

[helios]

Hi everybody,
I am an Albanian. I was watching your forum for few days and I have been surprised when some people claim the Suliotes as Greeks with the mother tongue Hellenic.
Look out how they sing for their language and braveness:

Kjo gjuha arbërishte
Është gjuhë trimërishte,
E flit Navarhoj Mjauli,
Boçari si dhe i gjith’Suli !

Translation

This Albanian language
is a language of brave people
it's been spoken from Navarhoj Miauli
(Marko) Bocari and the entire region of Soulli

This is a song sang by the Sulliotes during the battles for indipendence.

[helios]

Poet Rhyanus who is quoted by Steph. Byzantinus

Suliones were another Chaonian tribe.....( Συλίονες).

Their name recall to mind the famous Suliotes.

[chicagogeorge]

^^

and of course the Chaones were a Greek tribe as were the Souliotes.


The Mercersburg Review - Page 25
by Alumni Association, Franklin and Marshall College - 1860

[helios]

Originally Posted by chicagogeorge

^^

and of course the Chaones were a Greek tribe as were the Souliotes.

whose mother tongue is Illyrian and they hardly can speak Greek, even worse than the Athenians:

[chicagogeorge]

Originally Posted by helios

whose mother tongue is Illyrian and they hardly can speak Greek, even worse than the Athenians:

Janina speaks the purest Greek according to Byron, but beyond Argyrocastro and Tepelene the Greek is worst than Athens. I guess the Athenians aren't really Greeks

As for the Chaones. for future reference...

[IMG][/IMG]

[helios]

Originally Posted by chicagogeorge

Janina speaks the purest Greek according to Byron, but beyond Argyrocastro and Tepelene the Greek is worst than Athens. I guess the Athenians aren't really Greeks

As for the Chaones. for future reference...:

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/8...haonesyn7.jpg]

We are talking about Sulliotes:

[helios]

Originally Posted by chicagogeorge

.. but beyond Argyrocastro and Tepelene the Greek is worst than Athens. I guess the Athenians aren't really Greeks

Your guess is correct :

[helios]

Originally Posted by chicagogeorge

As for the Chaones. for future reference...

Yes these are the modern Chaones:

[helios]

Originally Posted by chicagogeorge

I guess the Athenians aren't really Greeks

Your Bayron is confirming that being Athenian doesnt mean you are a Greek, he clearly differentiates them:

Byron's 'Letters and Journals' Volume 1: 12 November 1809, PREVESA - ALBANIALetter to his Mother

My Dear Mother, I have been some time in Turkey: this place is on the coast, but I have traversed the interior of the province of Albania ................... Not a week ago an Albanian chief ... after helping us out of the Turkish galley, feeding us, and lodging my suite, consisting of Fletcher, a Greek, two Athenians, a Greek priest and my companion, Mr. Hobhouse, refused any compensation ... and when I pressed him to accept a few sequins, 'No', he replied; 'I wish you to love me, not to pay me'. These are his words (p.279).