Souliotes

[chicagogeorge]

Originally Posted by helios

that HOME ORAL language of the Sulliotes was Albanian.
This is not a debatable issue.
SULLIOTES ARE ALBANIANS.

.

It's not



The Ottoman Empire, 1801-1913 - Page 23
by William Miller - Eastern question (Balkan) - 1913 - 547 pages

[chicagogeorge]

Originally Posted by helios

All of you dont forget:
These formidable warriors who fought for Hellas were mostly from ALBANIAN BLOOD.

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/321...shz6.pngQUOTE]

I laugh

Actually I'm insulted.


People who fought for Greek independence were Greek because they felt Greek just like people who fought for Albanian indepedence were Albanian because they felt Albanian.

[Orphic_Hymn]

Originally Posted by helios

The most powerful indication to define people ethnicity is THE MOTHER TONGUE. With plenty of evidences it is CONCLUSIVE that HOME ORAL language of the Sulliotes was Albanian.
This is not a debatable issue.
SULLIOTES ARE ALBANIANS.

"I say so" means NOTHING in any historic debate..
Mother tongue can not be applied as an indicator when we're discussing multi-ethnic environments and that is exactly what the Ottoman empire was, a multi-ethnic environment which included a multitude of ethnicities and languages.
A similar claim would be that the "Romaniotes", who are ethnic Jews that have lived in Hellas for centuries if not more, are ethnically Hellenes since their language, Yevanika, is Hellenic with some minor influence from Hebrew or does Hellenic now become the language which everyone adopted and thus shouldn't be considered an indicator?

No it doesnt suit me at all. I dont even care how Sulliotes would be felt if they were alive.
One thing I can say for sure. Sulliotes were Albanians by blood and Greek by religion.

You're contradicting your own claims.. from "ARE" which means they still are, just like they always were, you go on to say "IF they were alive".. But its not about what their descendants fell today, but what they felt in the 1800's.

While you again return to the same rhetoric of "I say so" you conveniently forgot that we've already presented you with documentation, documentation which made you claim absurdities like that Doric wasn't a Hellenic dialect...etc and I'm not talking about some 20th century scholar but their own words, (see reference to Tzavelas' letter) that they were Hellenes, or as you'd claim, felt, and that their sole interest was the liberation of Hellas and not Albania. Actually they didn't even acknowledge such a nation (see letter of Tzavelas) all they saw was Hellas.

[helios]

Originally Posted by Orphic_Hymn

"I say so" means NOTHING in any historic debate..
Mother tongue can not be applied as an indicator when we're discussing multi-ethnic environments and that is exactly what the Ottoman empire was, a multi-ethnic environment which included a multitude of ethnicities and languages.
A similar claim would be that the "Romaniotes", who are ethnic Jews that have lived in Hellas for centuries if not more, are ethnically Hellenes since their language, Yevanika, is Hellenic with some minor influence from Hebrew or does Hellenic now become the language which everyone adopted and thus shouldn't be considered an indicator?

You're contradicting your own claims.. from "ARE" which means they still are, just like they always were, you go on to say "IF they were alive".. But its not about what their descendants fell today, but what they felt in the 1800's.

While you again return to the same rhetoric of "I say so" you conveniently forgot that we've already presented you with documentation, documentation which made you claim absurdities like that Doric wasn't a Hellenic dialect...etc and I'm not talking about some 20th century scholar but their own words, (see reference to Tzavelas' letter) that they were Hellenes, or as you'd claim, felt, and that their sole interest was the liberation of Hellas and not Albania. Actually they didn't even acknowledge such a nation (see letter of Tzavelas) all they saw was Hellas.

Too much coming around.
The important thing is that you admited SULLIOTES WERE ALBANIANS and their mother tongue was ALBANIAN.

[Orphic_Hymn]

Originally Posted by helios

Too much coming around.
The important thing is that you admited SULLIOTES WERE ALBANIANS and their mother tongue was ALBANIAN.

Firstly little troll I never said that they were Albanians so stop distorting my words, like you do the texts you can't comprehend.

Secondly what you title an indicator, as already explained can NOT be applied here, since in multi-ethnic/multilinguial societies mother-tongue is non-tracable... beside the previous example I provided, another good one is to say that you're claiming that because the Ottomans wrote in Persian and Arabic and spoke a bit of Turkish beside the prementioned two, (prior to Kemal's Sun theory) they were ethnic Persians and Arabs.

Finally, what they WERE/ARE is clarified in Tzavelas' letter, so when you're able to contradict their own beliefs, their own words, only then will you have any right to claim connection to them.

[helios]

Originally Posted by Orphic_Hymn

Firstly little troll I never said that they were Albanians so stop distorting my words, like you do the texts you can't comprehend.

Secondly what you title an indicator, as already explained can NOT be applied here, since in multi-ethnic/multilinguial societies mother-tongue is non-tracable... beside the previous example I provided, another good one is to say that you're claiming that because the Ottomans wrote in Persian and Arabic and spoke a bit of Turkish beside the prementioned two, (prior to Kemal's Sun theory) they were ethnic Persians and Arabs.

Finally, what they WERE/ARE is clarified in Tzavelas' letter, so when you're able to contradict their own beliefs, their own words, only then will you have any right to claim connection to them.

You huge supertroll I must say that SULI was not a multi-ethnic/multilingual place. It was one language and blood ALBANIAN.

[Foti66]

Originally Posted by helios

You huge supertroll I must say that SULI was not a multi-ethnic/multilingual place. It was one language and blood ALBANIAN.

No, you are the supertroll. Everyone hear has answered you with sources. What is it that you provide? Do we have another brilliant balkanite in here whose peasant gradfather gave them an oral history?

[Orphic_Hymn]

Originally Posted by helios

You huge supertroll I must say that SULI was not a multi-ethnic/multilingual place. It was one language and blood ALBANIAN.

Again you prove incompotent of comprehending simple meanings.

Troll = a newsgroup post that is deliberately incorrect, intended to provoke readers; or a person who makes such a post

So your above claim that I suggested that the Suliotes were Albanian as was their "mother-tongue" is by definition the act of a troll.

Anyway... judging from the evidence provided in this thread, we may safely conclude that there were both Hellenic and Albanian populations residing in the region, thus making it a multi-ethnic/multilingual region. BUT these populations indifferent of their ancestral origins clearly defined themselves as Hellenes and that this identification was not religious.

So can you provide us with an explanation as to why, the (according to you) purely Albanians in ethnic origin and speech would claim that their lands are Hellenic and that they are Hellenes?
YES OR NO ?

[helios]

Originally Posted by Orphic_Hymn

Again you prove incompotent of comprehending simple meanings.

Troll = a newsgroup post that is deliberately incorrect, intended to provoke readers; or a person who makes such a post

So your above claim that I suggested that the Suliotes were Albanian as was their "mother-tongue" is by definition the act of a troll.

Anyway... judging from the evidence provided in this thread, we may safely conclude that there were both Hellenic and Albanian populations residing in the region, thus making it a multi-ethnic/multilingual region. BUT these populations indifferent of their ancestral origins clearly defined themselves as Hellenes and that this identification was not religious.

So can you provide us with an explanation as to why, the (according to you) purely Albanians in ethnic origin and speech would claim that their lands are Hellenic and that they are Hellenes?
YES OR NO ?

You may conclude whatever you want or fits your interest.
But the reality is not up to you, its independent.
You just try to distort it but with scarce results.

[Orphic_Hymn]

Originally Posted by helios

You may conclude whatever you want or fits your interest.
But the reality is not up to you, its independent.
You just try to distort it but with scarce results.

I posted a question,

So can you provide us with an explanation as to why, the (according to you) purely Albanians in ethnic origin and speech would claim that their lands are Hellenic and that they are Hellenes?
YES OR NO ?

you either respond to it or stop flooding the thread with irrelevent trash. Your next post that isn't a direct responce will be deleted