Info about the Illyrians

[helios]

Originally Posted by kostas68

Since they are serious they are standing on the side which claims the truth..

With the only difference that the truth is not in their side.

[Draco]

Helios, you could say what the UFO-spotters say: "there are aliens in flying saucers, we know, but the everyone doesn't believe us because of some sinster government conspiracy". You could attribute it to a worldwide anti-Albanian conspiracy, perhaps the Kennedy assassination was part of it!!

[helios]

Originally Posted by Orphic_Hymn

Enjoy what you troll another intentionally distorted text?
HERE is how the abstract really looks like, so how about explaining yourself, tell us all about the inferiority complex that drives you to constant distortions of whatever text you find?

Its nothing distorted . Those are 2 Paragraphs from the entire article
here:
http://www.hri.org/por/Summer98/story2.html

Its you distorted in your brain only.

[helios]

Originally Posted by Draco

Helios, you could say what the UFO-spotters say: "there are aliens in flying saucers, we know, but the everyone doesn't believe us because of some sinster government conspiracy". You could attribute it to a worldwide anti-Albanian conspiracy, perhaps the Kennedy assassination was part of it!!

You can beleive whatever you want.
You can even make them public.
BUT dont defend them with pathethism especially when they go against interests of other people.
Mine was just a reaction for something doesnt look true at all. Other than that sophism is not always the mecanism to bring yourself safe.

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by helios

Let me tell you something about the history scholars. I happen to see them and their job a lot.
Some of them are good but extremely very few.
Beleive me or not most of them wellpaid but worthy to cook in the kitchen.

Helios I'm not refering to "those" Historians ..I'm refering to those who are able to do some thinking over the clews they got on something ..You know:

Hammond,Bengtson,Burn,Momigliano ..etc

About the "other" ones they exist everywhere not only in History ..but in Medicine , Physics etc ....In every discipline there is who cares on being good and who doesn't.

[Draco]

Although nations do have a beginning, they seemingly have no end and thus are conceived as at least relatively immortal. They are also conceived as purely pure and perfectly perfect. What I am leading to, of course, is the now common perception that nationality is a fiction rather than a truth - a very selective and distorting fiction that includes certain things and excludes or forgets others, more or less the same way that theology distorts the 'nature of being'.

http://www.hri.org/por/Summer98/story2.html

This is obviously the writings of an anti-nationalist and these people consider all nations and nationalities artificially constructed and that the world would be a better place without the nationalist worldview. All nations of course covers Albanians as well.

Distortion of anthropological writings by nationalists to de-legitimize rival nationalists is pathetically common. A frequently used one is Anderson's definition of a nation as an "imagined political community". Anderson says all nations are such communities but uneducated nationalists try to apply it only to rival nationalities but never to their own.

[Grace]

actually I agree with Andrew, he is a very reasonable person and in 20 years most Greeks will be that way IMO as nationalism and the church gets pushed aside for reason.


Now, are you ready....Albanian might have actually originated--at least in part--from proto-thracians, some 8000 years ago. Steven Bird thinks so and of course there's Illyrian blood and some Cretan as well (j2). he even mentione the word pelasgian there, but I am not going to say "we're pelasgians." However, we're OLD and pelasgians are 2-3000 BC so when you go back that far, all is possible.

I will quote some passages from the book for the interest of the list:

"Just over three-quarters of a million Albanians lived in the Ottoman Empire. One of the oldest communities on the peninsula [N.B.!] they had adapted remarkably to the Empire's peculiar social environment. The Albanians were concentrated in present-day Albania, Kosovo and Macedonia. But the population extended deep into Greece, into Montenegro and even into Bulgaria and Thrace... [Sounds like V13 to me!]

There had been cultural cross-fertilization between the Albanians and their neighbors. Turks, Greeks, Montenegrins, Serbs and Vlachs had all borrowed from and contributed to aspects of Albanian folklore, cuisine and social habits. The Albanian mountain warriors of the north shared many customs with their Montenegrin neighbors, most infamously the gjakmarrje, the vendetta or blood revenge, which itself was based on the concept of besa or honor... the key to Albanian unity was language... Alone among the Balkan nations, the Albanians were forbidden from teaching in their own tongue."

We have a good idea that E3b1a2 (V13) is associated intimately with the present Albanian population from the genetic evidence. The most pertinent question, in my view, is whether Albanians are of Illyrian or Thracian descent, or perhaps both. http://community.haplozone.net/index.php?topic=263.60

Turns out Thracians were the nastiest sobs in fighting, but they never united (story of Albania?)

The E3b1a2 is ONLY in the Balkans and apparently spread from Kosova /FYROM Albos to the rest of the world--including Greece. It includes blonds and red-headed people too. He suspects that around 4000 years ago a bottleneck happened and people were forced to migrate to europe, and even turkey.

[chicagogeorge]

Originally Posted by Grace

Now, are you ready....Albanian might have actually originated--at least in part--from proto-thracians, some 8000 years ago. Steven Bird thinks so

Find me a reputable historian who thinks that the Thracians are 8000 years old.

and of course there's Illyrian blood and some Cretan as well (j2). he even mentione the word pelasgian there, but I am not going to say "we're pelasgians." However, we're OLD and pelasgians are 2-3000 BC so when you go back that far, all is possible.

If there is some drops of Pelasgian and Cretan blood in Albanians then there must be pints of it in Greeks. Since the Pelasgians and Cretans inhabited Greece never Albania.

Turns out Thracians were the nastiest sobs in fighting, but they never united (story of Albania?)

Most barbarian tribes north of the Greeks were fierce warriors but the Greeks were able to put them in check

The E3b1a2 is ONLY in the Balkans and apparently spread from Kosova /FYROM Albos to the rest of the world--including Greece. It includes blonds and red-headed people too. He suspects that around 4000 years ago a bottleneck happened and people were forced to migrate to europe, and even turkey.

What is your point here? How does this one genetic sequence have anything to do with this discussion?

[chicagogeorge]

I realize that one ore two passages from this book have been posted in this thread. Here are some more interesting excerpts first which states clearly of the widespread academic view that Epirotes spoke a form of Greek and also excerpts which show where the ancient Illyrian lands ended and where the Greek lands began. Plus an excerpt on the Illyrian language and it's relationship to modern Albanian.