Info about the Illyrians

[helios]

Originally Posted by Orphic_Hymn

But anyway.. the Hellenes are darker simply because our population is composed of a % of Meds, while you're predominantly Dinaric and lack Meds.. But as far as height goes.. all I can say from personal expierience that I haven't yet met a single Albanian in Hellas (immigrants) that aren't only taller but ever reach my height, (I'm 1.85), so I would like some sort of source to support this.

You started with Illyrians quoting Wilkey claiming that :Illyrians were short and dark skined.
I answered that Wilkey is totally wrong.
Illyrians(Albanians) are an example of the tallness.

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by helios

Look how is classified by Byron in his letter the race that Wilkes defined short and dark:

Byron:

The next day I was introduced to Ali Pascha (p.276), his highness is sixty years old, very fat, and not tall, but with a fine face, light blue eyes, and a white beard; his manner is very kind ... he called my Albanian soldier who attends me, and told him to protect me at all hazard; his name is Veseliu, and, like all the Albanians, he is brave, rigidly honest, and faithful; but they are cruel, though not treacherous, and have several vices but no meannesses. They are, perhaps, the most beautiful race, in point of countenance, in the world... (p.277)

Isn't beauty a subjective issue ???

I happen to know people who can't have an erection if the woman ain't fat !!

[helios]

Originally Posted by Andrew

Isn't beauty a subjective issue ???

Of course it is , however when all agree that Albanians are the finest race in Europe what can I add.

[Orphic_Hymn]

Originally Posted by helios

You started with Illyrians quoting Wilkey claiming that :Illyrians were short and dark skined.
I answered that Wilkey is totally wrong.
Illyrians(Albanians) are an example of the tallness.

Wake up and face reality.. You went and claimed that Wilkes wrote that philologists support the Albanians = descendants of Illyrians continuity theory. I indicated that this is a fallacy since he doesn't accept it when anthropologic factors is included.
If he's right or wrong is a totally different issue which is something that I'm not interested in, what I clearly am interested in is the correct presentation of the context of a cited source, just like when you intentionally distorted the context of Pseudo-Skylax's text to support something that isn't stated.

[Orphic_Hymn]

Originally Posted by helios

Of course it is , however when all agree that Albanians are the finest race in Europe what can I add.

Keep in mind that SS.Skanderbeg is long gone.. so do keep the finest race crap outta here.

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by helios

Of course it is , however when all agree that Albanians are the finest race in Europe what can I add.

Good for you .... although I have to say that there is a great difference between Ghegs and Tosks ...The few Ghegs I know are heigh with blond.redish hair and light eyes ..but about 15/20 Tosks I know are all short and dark skinned ...But it's ok ..similar differences occure also among Northern and Southern Greeks ...I guess it is the dificult mountain life that "sellects" a more built-up physical type !

[helios]

Originally Posted by Andrew

Good for you .... although I have to say that there is a great difference between Ghegs and Tosks ...The few Ghegs I know are heigh with blond.redish hair and light eyes ..but about 15/20 Tosks I know are all short and dark skinned ...But it's ok ..similar differences occure also among Northern and Southern Greeks ...I guess it is the dificult mountain life that "sellects" a more built-up physical type !

I am a Tosk myself. Its not true they are dark skined.They are similar to what you call Northern Greeks.

Ghegs are the Illyrians.
Tosks are the Epirotes.

[kostas68]

Originally Posted by helios

Albanians are much taller than the Greeks.

As far as i've seen of the Albanian immigrants in Greece,you can hardly find an Albanian taller than 1,75 and many of them are shorter than 1,70.

Originally Posted by helios

Look how is classified by Byron in his letter the race that Wilkes defined short and dark:

Byron:

The next day I was introduced to Ali Pascha (p.276), his highness is sixty years old, very fat, and not tall, but with a fine face, light blue eyes, and a white beard; his manner is very kind ... he called my Albanian soldier who attends me, and told him to protect me at all hazard; his name is Veseliu, and, like all the Albanians, he is brave, rigidly honest, and faithful; but they are cruel, though not treacherous, and have several vices but no meannesses. They are, perhaps, the most beautiful race, in point of countenance, in the world... (p.277)

Originally Posted by Andrew

Isn't beauty a subjective issue ???
I happen to know people who can't have an erection if the woman ain't fat !!

I totally agree with Andrew.Especially the Anglo-Saxon criteria about beauty are very strange or arguable,since Lady Diana was voted 1-2 years before her death from the London Times readers as the most sexy woman in world!

Originally Posted by helios

I am a Tosk myself. Its not true they are dark skined.They are similar to what you call Northern Greeks.

Ghegs are the Illyrians.
Tosks are the Epirotes.

And what are the Greeks of Epiros,aren't they Epirotans or according to you the terms Greek and Epirus are irrelevant?

[chicagogeorge]

Originally Posted by helios

I am a Tosk myself. Its not true they are dark skined.They are similar to what you call Northern Greeks.

Ghegs are the Illyrians.
Tosks are the Epirotes.

First off the Illyrians were never ever considered Epirotes. Nor vice versa. The Illyrians lived north of the Epirotes.

Secondly,

Tosks of the modern age lived alongside the Epirotes which have always been Greeks. The word Tosk has never been mentioned to identify Epirotes by authors.

The ancient tribes of Epirus were Greek, speaking Greek, and practicing the ancient Greek religion.

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by helios

I am a Tosk myself. Its not true they are dark skined.They are similar to what you call Northern Greeks.

Ghegs are the Illyrians.
Tosks are the Epirotes.

When I say dark-skinned I'm not saying "Michael Jordan" Neither Charles Barkley ...let's Say Jason Kidd

And Northern Greeks (original Macedonians , not refugees) are far more light-skinned and light-haired than Tosks.