Arvanites

[Orphic_Hymn]

cultural polyphony and identity formation:
negotiating tradition in Attica
DlMlTRA GEFOU-MADIANOU-Panteion University p.420

Accounts by travelers of the 18th and early 19th century note their presence among other groups in the area (Pouqueville 1820:20). So, too, in works by Greek writers of the mid-1 9th century, Arvanitic-speaking groups were described as one among many that made up the Greek nation-state (see, for example, Byzantios 1953 [I8361).
Many of these groups identified with the Greek nationalists and actively participated in the 1820s war of independence not as separate groups, but as Greeks, clearly distinguishing themselves from the non-Orthodox (Muslim) Albanian populations. Although they could communicate with the Ottoman Turkish-Albanians who were fighting against the Greeks (Skopetea 1988:188-189), they were not identified nor did they identify themselves as Albanians, calling themselves "Arvanites" instead.

Culture, Civilization, and Demarcation at the Northwest Borders of Greece
Laurie Kain Hart
American Ethnologist, Vol. 26, No. 1. (Feb., 1999), p 211

But Arvanitika speakers have it both ways and also appear as true Hellenes, authentic descendents of the ancients, preserved by westerly isolation from the corruption of the "Anatolian Byzantine" (Hart 1 993).

Culture, Civilization, and Demarcation at the Northwest Borders of Greece
Laurie Kain Hart
American Ethnologist, Vol. 26, No. 1. (Feb., 1999),p.214

A Greek encyclopedia published in 1930 provides some interesting details about the identity of the Liapides. They are described as Muslim inhabitants of Liapouria (the southwest section of Albania between the Boiousis and Kalamas Rivers). They are, in all probability, the same people who moved in the 14th and 15th centuries into mainland Greece as well as Hydra, Spetses, and other islands. They are said to be warriors, builders (a traditional occupation of southern Albanians and Arvanites until today), and artisans, as well as brigands and pirates. They do not employ the term Shkiptar (the dominant Albanian language term for Albanians) but retain their ethnic names and the term Arvanites. They wear the fustanella (kilt) by contrast to the Northern Albanians who "dress like Slavs" (Engkiklopedhiko Lexiko 1930:672).

The Evolution of Settlement in the Southern Argolid, Greece: An Economic
Explanation
Curtis N. Runnels; Tjeerd H. van Andel
Hesperia, Vol. 56, No. 3. (Jul. - Sep., 1987), p. 321

The population of the Southern Argolid was augmented by an
influx of Albanian-speaking settlers (perhaps taking advantage of depopulations following the Black Death?) in the 14th-15th centuries, and the Arvanites, as they are called, are still a dominant element of the population.

Reviewed Work(s):
On Dialect: Social and Geographical Perspectives by Peter Trudgill
Malcah Yaeger-Dror
Language, Vol. 62, No. 4. (Dec., 1986), p920

Chap. 7, 'Language contact, language shift, and identity: Why Arvanites are not Albanians' (127-40), co-authored with George Tzavaras, analyses the attitudes of Arvanitika speakers toward the way they speak, on the basis of responses to a questionnaire. Responses to questionnaires which focus on language attitudes are, of course, as vulnerable to criticism as other self-report data (Bourhis 1984); but T&T manage to learn as much as one dares from the questions which they have posed.

Reviewed Work(s):
Ourselves and Others: The Development of a Greek Macedonian Cultural Identity Since 1912
by Peter Mackridge; Eleni Yannakakis
Laurie Kain Hart
American Ethnologist, Vol. 25, No. 3. (Aug., 1998), p. 538

Similarly the case of the Arvanites (Albanian-speaking Greeks), as well as the very difierent situation oi recent Albanian immigrants, merits attention as one moves west toward Epiros and the Albanian border.

[Hermes]

Again...............ok..

A Greek encyclopedia published in 1930 provides some interesting details about the identity of the Liapides. They are described as Muslim inhabitants of Liapouria (the southwest section of Albania between the Boiousis and Kalamas Rivers). They are, in all probability, the same people who moved in the 14th and 15th centuries into mainland Greece as well as Hydra, Spetses, and other islands. They are said to be warriors, builders (a traditional occupation of southern Albanians and Arvanites until today), and artisans, as well as brigands and pirates. They do not employ the term Shkiptar (the dominant Albanian language term for Albanians) but retain their ethnic names and the term Arvanites. They wear the fustanella (kilt) by contrast to the Northern Albanians who "dress like Slavs" (Engkiklopedhiko Lexiko 1930:672).

The word shqipetari entered to late in albanian dictionary (to name thereselves) That time Arvanites has been in Greece from about 2-3 centuries. Those time they called them selves Arber - from Arberia- B-V, R-N.
How could they be named shqipetari.

Inhabitants of Laberia (southwest Albania) are "muslims" , but they still rembember their last christian ancestors.If u go there , in the villages , u will find books, about the tribes there , and most of them had wrote about the last christian and their christian surnames. sorry, no greeks, no one speak about that.No other argument to relate them. In history they are wellknown as brigantes and other and other too. ( Have to remember u that in the 15-16 century §Himara was said had 50 villages, and many of them are in Laberia today, With Himara are understood only 7 villages)No one claim to be greek there, have u ever heard? Also the inhabitants of Pilur, Kudhes, Vuno, Qeparo(dont remember other 2) have the strong idea they are not greeks, in Leonidha army there was a betrayer too.

About foustanella, its still weared by Lab people, and north is another question.
>

[Orphic_Hymn]

Hermes

Long time no see..

OK, since you quoted it, what didn't you understand from the phrase:

a traditional occupation of southern Albanians and Arvanites until today

?

I've heard a load of theories about the Liapides among them some which try to connect them to the "Lapithae", for example, Henry Skene mentions names and pronounciation of "delta" (dh) which he suggests are indication of this relation but I don't really give it much credit.

But thats not the point, I really don't care who the Liapides may or may not have been, I presented this quote because I see a reference to two separate people, its simple logic to conclude that if otherwise, the author would have simply stated "Albanians" for there would be absolutely no reason to make any distinction between the two.

Now while there is a topic about the foustanella, I'll just say that the fact that its worn in the South indicates the Byzantine and Latin influence (south-north) as also seen in the language.

[Hermes]

i understand Orphic.
First u cant make a conclusion only by a autor. All situation are taken as a complex to find the trueth. Also a saying of an author can be irilevant or cant be true.

Anyway, as u know, Arvanites went too early in Greece.albania than was ocupied and changed a lot. Religion a strong factor too). So someone , almost at those times could easily refer to them to 2 diferent genesis.

If they were Greeks, they couldnt be called arvanites , but just emigrants.
But all papers tell the opozite.

[olvios]

emigrants??!!

[terastios]

Arvanites (Greek: Αρβανίτες) are a population group in Greece whose linguistic heritage is Arvanitic, a form of Albanian. Arvanites are predominantly Greek Orthodox Christians and identify themselves ethnically and nationally as Greeks. They used to be the predominant population element in several regions in the south of Greece up to the 19th century. Today, their language is under danger of extinction due to language shift towards Greek and due to large-scale migrations into the cities.



Foreign sources sometimes refer to Arvanites as Albanians, as did some older Greek authors. Today, however, Arvanites in Greece typically object to being associated with the Albanian nation or being called an "ethnic minority", since they have a strong feeling of being ethnically Greek .For the same reason, many also object to the designation of their language as a dialect of Albanian, preferring instead to regard it as a separate language.

Arvanites: From left to right: Athanasios Miaoulis (1815 - 1867), Antonios Kriezis (1796 - 1865), Pavlos Kountouriotis (1855 - 1935) and Theodoros Pangalos (1878 - 1952).

[Orphic_Hymn]

Originally Posted by Hermes

i understand Orphic.
First u cant make a conclusion only by a autor. All situation are taken as a complex to find the trueth. Also a saying of an author can be irilevant or cant be true.

Anyway, as u know, Arvanites went too early in Greece.albania than was ocupied and changed a lot. Religion a strong factor too). So someone , almost at those times could easily refer to them to 2 diferent genesis.

If they were Greeks, they couldnt be called arvanites , but just emigrants.
But all papers tell the opozite.

We've done the same thing before in several topics, yet you make me repeat myself over and over again simply because you can NOT provide any form of logical explanation.

The very first account of Albanians is that of Michael Attaleiates, who in 1080 in his "Histories" mentions both Albanians (9.11, 18.19) and Arvanites (297.21). So the 1 million $ question that you have never answered is , WHY does he refer to them as separate people ???

[terastios]

Ι dont understand why r u 2 fighting about?
Shqiperia means "the land of the eagles"
Shqipetari is the "son of the eagleland".
They wanted (and did) to name their land like this...so what?
Its like we say "leventogenna Kriti" e kai?

[Ehetlaios]

Originally Posted by Orphic_Hymn

The very first account of Albanians is that of Michael Attaleiates

You probably mean in the Balkans... Arrian also mentions Albanians from the region of Azerbaijan who fought in the persian army in the battle of Gaugamela.

[Teukros]

Haven't actually been absorbed by the Greek population?A research back in the 70 showed there weren't different by the rest of Greeks and certainly distinc from albanians