Bollano Draws Parallels Between Albania’s Himara and Kosovo

[terastios]

Originally Posted by Hermes

................................................
Again.....


About Bollano , and Himara...
I had been there once....and saw these "vorioepirotes". They said me there, thay had a lot of money(pensions) ( and visas and other privileges) from Greece. I wonder if all these would not happen, what would they claim????? Have u ever thought?

.

They kept their greekness in hard times,with no support from the motherland,with no money and under a regime that sent them 25 years in prison just for speaking greek or a good 3days beating just for looking across the borders to the greek side!
Don't question their patriotism!

[Hermes]

This spring ,I and a friend of mine went in Himara to prenotate a room for summer , for him and his family. The owner of the Hotel, (about 59 years old, surname Gjoka) when was opened the item of the Himara Question said :

" All these are political cognuctures/questions, I am albanian, but the greeks gave to me and my children the passaport to go everywhere in Europe, and also about 500 euro/month for me and my wife, and i have this kind of hotel too. All these, the albanian goverment could not give to me.....so f... the borders and everything else.....its no a problem for me."

So Terastios, why dont u try once to take off all these priveleges, to see better the difference between patriotism and mercenary.....

A cousin of mine also ( from Himara ) when talk with albs says they are albs, when talks with greeks says that is greek........I have been there for 3 years my dear.....and the one that i trusted were the old himara mothers ( plakat e Himares). They spoke very well greek but their point of view was too different from you.
Its tru they had a hard life, and that had touched their existence, but.....your greeks.......are more greeks than u for this kind of questions.

Anyway....can u argue why in such little territory, and in an isolated area like that......the spoken greek of the 3 villages (the other 4 villages of himara dont speak greek)....is made by 3 different dialects....if they had been one thing in all history.....????

[Orphic_Hymn]

Originally Posted by Hermes

-
- In the medieval turk Defters....lookoing to the surnames and names of the inhabitans of Himara, u dont see orthodox-latin names, but just albanian common names Gjike, Gjin, Mehilli, Dode, Prenge, Kola etc... today many of them exsist as surnames...there are hundered.....can u say me anything me about that.
and the orthodox ones its too simple to know that if my name is Jorgou, Andrea etc...my family would have probably in future this surname.

Really ??
Well this was our argument in the early 1900's when we were trying to annex the region populated by Hellenes (N.Epirus), but your official government's responce was that Ottoman census didn't depict ethnicity and language but strictly religion. When we used the linguistic and cultural argument, your policy was to rediculously claim that Albanian was forbidden by the Turks.

Anyway, here's the population by vilayet:





and just in case you need help in locating which is which, here's a map of them:

This spring ,I and a friend of mine went in Himara to prenotate a room for summer , for him and his family. The owner of the Hotel, (about 59 years old, surname Gjoka) when was opened the item of the Himara Question said :

" All these are political cognuctures/questions, I am albanian, but the greeks gave to me and my children the passaport to go everywhere in Europe, and also about 500 euro/month for me and my wife, and i have this kind of hotel too. All these, the albanian goverment could not give to me.....so f... the borders and everything else.....its no a problem for me."

All I'll say is that I hope you undertand exactly what this tells us about you people, your moral values and your feeling of patriotism (if you comprehend what it means)... IF this is true, then you just proved that you people are have absolutely no problem selling out.. religion, neighbors and now ethnicity and country and for WHAT ?!?!? for a couple of euros a month..

[Hermes]

Yeah Orphic....u are paying a lot to have these "greeks" around, and why....just to have "a kind of bomb to explode" when politicans want it.....anyway, even if u pay the taxes, the politic gaves u the pleasure to have your "brothers" helped..... continue...so....

About changing religion => i just say u that the religion is just a clothe.....it could be very stupid for a nation to be identified by the religion, almost when this religion is imoported by the forigners( with force or not), or when it has nothing in common with your culture.....just barbars and nation without identity can do thaat ( to give such importance to a forigner culture)

If greeks ( Our Neighbours ) have money to pay us "greeks".....no problem in some points of view.....here is said that albs and greeks comes from pellazgs, and the great number of arvanitis and new arvanitis....make us very close to each other......here Greekness is understood like a culture, not like a nation or sth else.....thats why we are so angry when u claim greek nation and greek identity....u cant pretend it now, its to early.......if u continue so for 100-200 years, u can say it.....a nation is made up in 150 years....

About your dates as u can see....Orthodox are divided in Greeks and Bulgarians....but there is nothing about etnicity.....Do u really trust that have been 11.000 Greeks ( by nationality ) in Shkodra ( North Albania ) in 1911 ???
And there have not been no one albanian at those times? or serb or bosniac, or kuco-vllaho ,gipsy , egiptians and so on......
but for u as always there are only turks , greeks ( and bulgarians, bcz their church is indipendent at those times) and Jewish ( this is normal, bcz they had gave you a kind of their religion gratis , or sell it to you with some thousands of heads, and some tonelats of helen blood)

Ok....the joke is still open, your " greeks" are suffering a lot......let say to the world how is the trueth......lol...lol...lol...

[Orphic_Hymn]

Originally Posted by Hermes

Yeah Orphic....u are paying a lot to have these "greeks" around, and why....just to have "a kind of bomb to explode" when politicans want it.....anyway, even if u pay the taxes, the politic gaves u the pleasure to have your "brothers" helped..... continue...so....

I really can't follow your thoughts, what bomb and why is it wrong to show interest in your minorities?

About changing religion => i just say u that the religion is just a clothe.....it could be very stupid for a nation to be identified by the religion, almost when this religion is imoported by the forigners( with force or not), or when it has nothing in common with your culture.....just barbars and nation without identity can do thaat ( to give such importance to a forigner culture)

a) I don't judge people based on their religious beliefs.
b) your comprehension of the relations between Hellenizm and Christianity are if not non-existant very, very limited.
c) as for the "barbarians and a nation with no identity" which you described. Think about it and you'll see that you are describing yourself, compatriots and country.

If greeks ( Our Neighbours ) have money to pay us "greeks".....no problem in some points of view.....

If you denounce your true ethnicity and country to exploit some possible assistance we give to our persecuted breathen, the problem isn't ours. The problem is your sense of belonging, culture and moral values, which dictate that money is of far greater value than who you are.

Why don't you understand that by doing it, you aren't the smart Albanian that tricked the naive Hellenic government, but that you are the Albanian, that denounced his history, heritage and ancestors for money and that tells us volumes about who you are.

here is said that albs and greeks comes from pellazgs

Yes you do have several anomalous theories promoted by your "specialists" I know.

and the great number of arvanitis and new arvanitis....make us very close to each other......

What "new Arvanites" is this, what connection did they have to Hellas prior to their illegal entrance in the country ?
Don't try to compare uncomparable issues.

here Greekness is understood like a culture, not like a nation or sth else.....thats why we are so angry when u claim greek nation and greek identity....

What you comprehend and believe is actually of little interest to us. Let me remind you that you are the people that are taught that you faught with Pyrrhus and that the names Thermopyles and Athens comes from you.

About your dates as u can see....Orthodox are divided in Greeks and Bulgarians....but there is nothing about etnicity.....Do u really trust that have been 11.000 Greeks ( by nationality ) in Shkodra ( North Albania ) in 1911 ???

No not all of them were, but there were ethnic Hellenes in the region in question.

Ok....the joke is still open, your " greeks" are suffering a lot......let say to the world how is the trueth......lol...lol...lol...

As for their sufferering, don't take my word on it, read some 100 Human Rights reports on the persecutions, think about why spectators are sent every elections to assure that the process will be legit.


What joke?
That you people once again in your history sell out your country, ancestors, religion, ethnic background, families for money?
Man wake up, that isn't a joke, its simply pathetic.

[Hermes]

b) your comprehension of the relations between Hellenizm and Christianity are if not non-existant very, very limited.

U cant pretend to have Hellenizem and Christianity in the same value.....u are proud of hellenizem but in the same time Christianity is the greatest value in the today greek society. Those are so diferent, u cant pretend to have an identity based on 2 diferent Totems (understand my point of view).

If you denounce your true ethnicity and country to exploit some possible assistance we give to our persecuted breathen, the problem isn't ours. The problem is your sense of belonging, culture and moral values, which dictate that money is of far greater value than who you are.

Why don't you understand that by doing it, you aren't the smart Albanian that tricked the naive Hellenic government, but that you are the Albanian, that denounced his history, heritage and ancestors for money and that tells us volumes about who you are.

I spoke those "greeks" that for need and without ways....do those things that i said. I didnt spoke about all people....There are some things that hapens...or not?

Yes you do have several anomalous theories promoted by your "specialists" I know.

Yea...greek culture, comes from the pellazg one (Homer is source). The pelazg didnt lived only in Greece. Their elements are well explained by albanian-albanologs.....albs have keept enough of that heritiage.


[quote][Let me remind you that you are the people that are taught that you faught with Pyrrhus and that the names Thermopyles and Athens comes from you.

/QUOTE]

Yeah , its true. ( i havent read about Thermopiles, but the others are o0k)

Quote:
About your dates as u can see....Orthodox are divided in Greeks and Bulgarians....but there is nothing about etnicity.....Do u really trust that have been 11.000 Greeks ( by nationality ) in Shkodra ( North Albania ) in 1911 ???

No not all of them were, but there were ethnic Hellenes in the region in question.

Hey, u seem good sometimes, but a lier is said that has the short foot.
It would be another thing that in 1911 there were some greeks that lived in Shkodra( north Albania), and its a great stupid thing to say that there were Ethnik Hellines in Shkodra......u are speaking about 100 years ago my dear, not about 1000 thousand.....There were the books, newspapers, fotographs and filsm at those times.....cant lie in this way....


And stop saìying that Arvanites, are not albanians.
As u are full of sources, say me:
X. Which is their origin????
1. how did they learned albanian in greece?
2. How is possible that they learned albanian in a place without albanians?
3. How is it possible that all authors better to say travellers in greece , identify those like albanians?
4. How is it possible that the arvanits that i meet in greece , spoke ( not a very good, its normal) albanian?
5.Why did they told me We were Patriots ( here is used also to understand the same origin)?

U cant say that some of them claim that have nothing with albanians,
Aristidh Kola was one of them.....
Their periodic newspapers....were in albanian, and didnt let me excpect to understand anything else
Also in a local TV here , once there was an interwiew with a director of one of the Arvanitic assosiations / NGO...he spoke a rude albanian and said that they were trying to keep their heritiage from the conditions of the new times...

[Orphic_Hymn]

Originally Posted by Hermes

U cant pretend to have Hellenizem and Christianity in the same value.....u are proud of hellenizem but in the same time Christianity is the greatest value in the today greek society. Those are so diferent, u cant pretend to have an identity based on 2 diferent Totems (understand my point of view).

Look I don't have to pretend anything, I'm telling you exactly what I believe. Hellenism is strongly bound to Christianity and the very same applies vica versa. I see Hellenism as the total of contributions of the Hellenic race to the world, be that through ancient civilization, protection from invading Islam or the spread of Christianity. Are they two different ideas, yes, but the first has so strongly influenced the second that I don't see it as a separate part but as the continuation, its evolution.
Lets hope we cleared that.

I spoke those "greeks" that for need and without ways....do those things that i said. I didnt spoke about all people....There are some things that hapens...or not?

Well you generalized not once but in two topics which indicates that a) it is widely practiced and b) you have absolutely no problem doing it. So my beliefs on you as a people stand unchanged.

Yea...greek culture, comes from the pellazg one (Homer is source). The pelazg didnt lived only in Greece. Their elements are well explained by albanian-albanologs.....albs have keept enough of that heritiage.

Yeah I saw their explanations, Aphrodite she who cums in the morning..
How about presenting more connections, I need the laugh.

Yeah , its true. ( i havent read about Thermopiles, but the others are o0k)

The other.. which others? Are you refering to Athena from "thana" ?

Hey, u seem good sometimes, but a lier is said that has the short foot. It would be another thing that in 1911 there were some greeks that lived in Shkodra( north Albania), and its a great stupid thing to say that there were Ethnik Hellines in Shkodra......u are speaking about 100 years ago my dear, not about 1000 thousand.....There were the books, newspapers, fotographs and filsm at those times.....cant lie in this way....

Short foot.. well I have no idea what this means but I wear an 11.5 since you're interested.
But you're contradicting yourself and by doing so not making sense. Its one thing to say that Hellenes existed but saying that ethnic Hellenes existed is stupid
Whats the difference?

Anyway, here's a map of ETHNIC MINORITIES (NOT religious ones) in 1918:
note that Shkodra has a 10-50.000 NON-RELIGIOUS minority population.

And stop saìying that Arvanites, are not albanians.
As u are full of sources, say me:

Even if I stop saying it to please you it won't change the fact that they aren't.

X. Which is their origin????

Hellenic with some possible but not definite Albanian mixture.

1. how did they learned albanian in greece?

I never said that they learnt Albanian here and had you paid attention to the info I've provided you with you would have known that. The entire city of Durres didn't even speak Albanian in 1332 but only recently (according to Albanologist Robert Elsie) has it become the predominant language. With its population being influenced by Albanians that came down from the mountains. So since one of the largest cities was influenced in such a manner, how can you exclude the possibility (I'd say fact) of this happening in smaller villages?

2. How is possible that they learned albanian in a place without albanians?

Already answered

3. How is it possible that all authors better to say travellers in greece , identify those like albanians?

Sorry not all, but as I told you these are the same people that titled the Greco-Roman baths Turkish, so their understanding of ethnic origins is liable especially since thee are the same individuals that judged Hellenic origins based on the peasant's understanding of Erasmic Hellenic.

4. How is it possible that the arvanits that i meet in greece , spoke ( not a very good, its normal) albanian?

They do not speak modern Albanian they speak Arvanitic which derives from the ancient form of Albanian prior to Turkish influence and loans.

5.Why did they told me We were Patriots ( here is used also to understand the same origin)?

I don't understand what you mean.

U cant say that some of them claim that have nothing with albanians, Aristidh Kola was one of them.....

Kollias was a deluted lawyer that tried to play it linguist and was rejected by the entire scientific community. A fine example is his attempt to find a relation between Nemesis and "curse" when it means nothing remotely close. Unsuccessfully trying to refute the Indoeuropean theory and relating Arvanitic (NOT Albanian) to Homeric Hellenic are simply rediculous.

[Hermes]

Anyway, here's a map of ETHNIC MINORITIES (NOT religious ones) in 1918:
note that Shkodra has a 10-50.000 NON-RELIGIOUS minority population.

it doesnt give anything and , it needs more elemnts to understand what does the map say. It says all albania was full of minorities, but i havent seen or listen about them here..........strange , those are so much. Any way to be sure that those arent true , u just have to read about those who had traveled in those zones in that time.........e.x Edith Durham.

Hellenic with some possible but not definite Albanian mixture.

Really , i didnt knew that. If u had this conclusion....u must know more....tell me more about it, u cant just say that.....than u had answer to all others.

The entire city of Durres didn't even speak Albanian in 1332

Do u have the idea of durres at those times? It was the greatest Bizant port in west. The ofical language was the greek, the comercial questions by the multi-etnic traders were resolved in greek. The schools were just in greek ( than in arabic and in turkish) still in 1912. What would u pretend that that person who wrote that, had listened??? Strange that the albanians , the invasors, went in the mountains, and let so great rich in the hands of the suffering hellenic population................................U make me "cry".

So since one of the largest cities was influenced in such a manner, how can you exclude the possibility (I'd say fact) of this happening in smaller villages?

they speak Arvanitic which derives from the ancient form of Albanian prior to Turkish influence and loans.

Come on....its the same like the arberesh one but without the greek influence.....they never saw the turkish, but its the same..............anyway.....this ancient form of albanian?????

Quote:
5.Why did they told me We were Patriots ( here is used also to understand the same origin)?
Quote:
I don't understand what you mean.

I mean that in our conversations they told me that we are from the same country,have the same language,the same spiritual feeling for our origins => that is what we understand for patriots, it has more to say but i can find the words in english to say it.

Kollias was a deluted lawyer that tried to play it linguist and was rejected by the entire scientific community. A fine example is his attempt to find a relation between Nemesis and "curse" when it means nothing remotely close. Unsuccessfully trying to refute the Indoeuropean theory and relating Arvanitic (NOT Albanian) to Homeric Hellenic are simply rediculous.

Yeah...he was rediculous, thats why u killed him.

[Orphic_Hymn]

Originally Posted by Hermes

it doesnt give anything and , it needs more elemnts to understand what does the map say. It says all albania was full of minorities, but i havent seen or listen about them here..........strange , those are so much. Any way to be sure that those arent true , u just have to read about those who had traveled in those zones in that time.........e.x Edith Durham.

Hermes, I really must question your undrerstanding of your own history.
Didn't they tell you that during the time of the census in question your country was literally swarmed by French, Italians, Austrians, Hellenes..etc?

Really , i didnt knew that. If u had this conclusion....u must know more....tell me more about it, u cant just say that.....than u had answer to all others.

I've been telling you about it for a couple of months but you seem incapable of understanding it, so don't ask me to repeat myself.

Do u have the idea of durres at those times? It was the greatest Bizant port in west. The ofical language was the greek, the comercial questions by the multi-etnic traders were resolved in greek. The schools were just in greek ( than in arabic and in turkish) still in 1912. What would u pretend that that person who wrote that, had listened??? Strange that the albanians , the invasors, went in the mountains, and let so great rich in the hands of the suffering hellenic population................................U make me "cry".

Get serious, you're claiming that an Albanian city shouldn't have an Albanian speaking population simply because it was a center of commerce!!
But based on this argument, the very same could be said about Shkodra, wasn't it such a center in the later stages of the Ottoman rule and since it was, isn't the map correctly depicting a minority there?

Come on....its the same like the arberesh one but without the greek influence.....they never saw the turkish, but its the same..............anyway.....this ancient form of albanian?????

Maybe ancient isn't the correct definition, but you understand what I mean. Is it a form of Albanian? YES, but lacks terms which modern Albanian has adopted through Turkish influence.

Yeah...he was rediculous, thats why u killed him.

You're a disgrace to the human race, this is the second time you are exploiting the death of a man for your stupid propaganda. As I told you in the past, Kollias died of CANCER now if you and your kind try to promote the murder to suit your political agenda, what can I say.
But I should have expected something similar since you've already given us a good idea about your non-existant moral values.

[Hermes]

Get serious, you're claiming that an Albanian city shouldn't have an Albanian speaking population simply because it was a center of commerce!!
But based on this argument, the very same could be said about Shkodra, wasn't it such a center in the later stages of the Ottoman rule and since it was, isn't the map correctly depicting a minority there?

1.U cant pretend there was no one albanian there.....( this is sure 100%)
2.the author u say have not slept for months in that town.....he wrote what he saw, didnt made a general explanation of the population. Can u say me a comercial town of the mideval era that had a homegen population? be more serious.
3. In 1332 Shkodra was a habited place ,more bigger than a village. But it hadnt the importance of Durres and other cities. If Shkodra was a seacoast town may be it could be different. The capital of great vilajets of the Turks ( especialy in the borders ) were not situated in the seacoast. Thats why Shkodra and Janina took a great development, Durres,Vlora,Parga and others were just ports.

Maybe ancient isn't the correct definition, but you understand what I mean. Is it a form of Albanian? YES, but lacks terms which modern Albanian has adopted through Turkish influence.

What would u pretend, that with 400-500 years divided and with strong changes in many fields, it would be the same ????