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Old 02-25-2007, 01:01 PM
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That the molossians, who were immediately adjacent to the Dodonaeans in the time of Hecataeus but engulfed them soon afterwards, spoke Illyrian or another barbaric tongue was NOWHERE suggested, although Aeschylus and Pindar wrote of Molossian lands. That they in fact spoke greek was implied by Herodotus' inclusion of Molossi among the greek colonists of Asia minor, but became demonstranable only when D. Evangelides published two long inscriptions of the Molossian State, set up p. 369 B.C at Dodona, in Greek and with Greek names, Greek patronymies and Greek tribal names such as Celaethi, Omphales, Tripolitae, Triphylae, etc. As the Molossian cluster of tribes in the time of Hecataeus included the Orestae, Pelagones, Lyncestae, Tymphaei and Elimeotae,as we have argued above, we may be confindent that they too were Greek-speaking;

Inscriptional evidence of the Chaones is lacking until the Hellinistic period; but Ps-Scylax, describing the situation of c. 380-360 put the Southern limit of the Illyrians just north of the Chaones, which indicates that the Chaones DID NOT SPEAK Illyrian, and the acceptance of the Chaones into the Epirote alliance in the 330s suggest strongly that they were Greek-speaking.
"The Cambridge Ancient History - The Expansion of the Greek World, Eighth to Sixth Centuries B.C., Part 3: Volume 3" by P Mack Crew ,page 284.
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Old 02-25-2007, 01:56 PM
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Read our sources.You are not Reading them.
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"Arha Ellas apo Oricias kai arhegonos Ellas Epiros"

"Greece starts at Oricus and the most ancient part of Greece is Epirus."

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Old 06-29-2007, 08:21 AM
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Lightbulb Can we find a complete list with sources about the Epirotan tribes?

Can we find a complete list with sources about the fourteen tribes and any subdivisions within those tribes?
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"Arha Ellas apo Oricias kai arhegonos Ellas Epiros"

"Greece starts at Oricus and the most ancient part of Greece is Epirus."

Claudius Ptolemy, The Geographer

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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/megist...arastashmaxon/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ancientgreekmapsandmore/
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http://z11.invisionfree.com/Hegemony...index.php?c=11
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Old 06-29-2007, 04:23 PM
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I will start; I must say that i cant tell apart subdivisions yet.

1-Thesprotoi-θεσπρωτοι
2-Mollosoi-Μολλοσοι
3-Chaones-Χαονες
4-Dodonaioi-Δωδωναιοι
5-Atintanes-Ατιντανες
6-Tymfaioi-Τυμφαιοι
7-Athamanes-Αθαμανες
8-Aithikes-Αιθικες
9-Peraivoi-Περαιβοι
10-Enienes-Ενιηνες
11-Orestai-Ορεσται
12-Deksari-Δεξαριoi
13-
14-

???
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"Arha Ellas apo Oricias kai arhegonos Ellas Epiros"

"Greece starts at Oricus and the most ancient part of Greece is Epirus."

Claudius Ptolemy, The Geographer

http://www.hoplites.net/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/megist...arastashmaxon/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ancientgreekmapsandmore/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mapsoftheancientworld/
http://z11.invisionfree.com/Hegemony...index.php?c=11
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Old 06-29-2007, 04:44 PM
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ATHAMANES
They lived in northeastern Epirus, on Tzoumerka mountains and in part of the administrative division of Trikala. They were regarded by other Hellenes as a semi-barbarian tribe. Important cities of this tribe: Argothea (capital city) and Theodoria.

AITHIKES
They lived in Central Pindus at Poion mountain

ARKTANES
They lived in Central Pindus at Tzoumerka

ATINDANES
They lived in the region between Chaonia and Dodoni, in northwest Epirus


GREKE-GREEKES
They lived in central Epirus in Dodona

THESPROTIANS
Their region was called Thesprotia. Nowadays Thesprotia is one of the 52 administrative division (nomoi) of Greece (capital-city: Preveza). They lived in Epirus between the Amvrikikos Bay and the Kalamas river and between Pindos mountains and the Ionian Sea

KASSOPEANS
They lived in Kassiopia, between Thesportia and Amvracian gulf

MOLOSSOI
An Epirote tribe dwelling in the north, who succeeded in gaining control over all of Epirus in late Classical times. They were best known for a breed of huge war-mastiffs they used in military operations.

PARAVEOI
They lived in Aos river

PAROREOI
They lived in North Pindus, neigbour of the Tympheans.

SELLOI
They lived in central Epirus in Dodona

TYMPHEANS
They lived in Tympheous mountain near Aos river

CHAONES
Ancient protohellenic tribe with a Pelasgian root. They lived in Epirus, between the Keraunia mountains and Kalamas river, therefore the first name of Epirus was Chaonia. They were related the the Chaones of southern.Italy. Important cities: Vouthroton, Ilion, Foenice, Panormos, Ogchismos, Amandia, Antigonea

SOURCE
[Lexicon of the Greek and about-Greek tribes, Evaggelidis,2005]
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Old 09-14-2007, 09:36 AM
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Chaones

Headword: Autochroma homoion
Adler number: alpha,4537
Translated headword: Exactly the same
Vetting Status: low
Translation:
Altogether similar.[1]
Aelian [writes]: "Leaping exactly over the trenches, one named Clatius threw his hands on the ship hastening to flee Hasdrubal and vigorously kept hold of the stern."[2]
And Aristophanes [writes]: "It is not possible to escape the notice of the Paphlagonian. For he oversees everything; for he has one leg in Pylos, the other in the assembly. So great is the stance of him when he has stepped across that his ass-hole is exactly amongst the Chaonians."[3] Meaning absolutely truly, no kidding. The Chaonians are a people of Epirus.
Greek Original:
Autochr�ma homoion: pantelôs homoion. Ailianos: autochr�ma p�dôn huper ta eskammena, t�n naun Asdrouba pheugein epeigomen�n tas cheiras epibalôn eicheto errômenôs t�s prumn�s ho Klatios onoma. kai Aristophan�s: ton Paphlagona lathein ouch hoion te. ephorai gar autos pant': echei gar to skelos to men en Pulôi, to de heteron en t�i ekkl�siai. toson autou to b�ma diabeb�kotos, ho prôktos estin autochr�m' en Chaosin. anti tou panu al�thôs, apseudôs. Chaones de ethnos Epeirotikon.
Notes:

[1] Cf. alpha 2723, end.
[2] Aelian fr.118 Hercher; repeated at kappa 1706.
[3] Aristophanes, Knights 74-78; cf. chi 82. See web address 1 below for the text on Perseus.

Sto Chi,82

Chaones: ethnos ?peir?tikon. Aristophan?s: ho pr?ktos estin autochr?m' en Chaosin. epeid? kai eis malakian dieballeto ho Ger?s. kai authis Aristophan?s: ton Paphlagona lathein ouch hoion te. ephorai gar autos pant': echei gar to skelos to men en Pul?i, to d' heteron en t?i ekkl?siai. en Chaosi de para to kech?nenai. Thraikhs de ethnos hoi Chaones.

Chaones: ethnos Epeirotikon. Aristophanes: o prwktos estin aytochrem' en Chaosin. epeidh kai eis malakian dieballeto w Gerhs. kai aythis Aristophanes: ton Paphlagona lathein ouch oion te. Ephorai gar aytos pant': echei gar o skelos to men en Pyloi, to de eteron en tei ekklesia en Chaosin de para to kechenenai. Thraikhs de ethnos oi Chaones.


Source-Suda Byzantine Encyclopedia
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Elafonisos/Lakonia

-This god {Helios} has civilized, by the agency of the Hellenic colonies, the greatest part of the habitable globe; he has prepared it the more readily to submit to the Romans...

-Julian's Salutation to the Sun, Roman Emperor (331June 26, 363 ACE)

Last edited by Euklid; 09-14-2007 at 01:44 PM.
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Old 09-14-2007, 10:38 AM
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Headword: Purrichei
Adler number: pi,3225
Translated headword: Pyrrhic dance, war-dance
Vetting Status: high
Translation:
A kind of dance.
There are three kinds of dance,[1] purrikhê, sikinnis,[2] and kordakismos.[3]
Babrius: “May I only be able to walk on the road without being ridiculous, not to mention dancing the pyrrhic.” The camel [says this].[4]
"[If] he knew the pyrrhic of Kinesias."[5] This Kinesias was a dithyrambic poet,[6] and he made a pyrrhic [song]. Or because in the choruses he used a lot of movement [kinesis]. And he took an active role against the comic poets, that they should lose their right to public choruses.[7] He was sluggish in body and skeletal. He seems also to have acted indecently towards the statue of Hekate, that is shat upon it.[8] He was a Theban.[9]
Agathias: "Narses consolidated his forces and strengthened their spirit with daily exercise, forcing them to run quickly and to leap over their horses in formation and to whirl around in a kind of armed pyrrhic dance and to be deafened frequently by the trumpet sounding the war-call."[10]
Also pyrrikhizein ["to dance the pyrrhic"], to dance with weapons.
Also pyrrhikhios orkhêsis ["pyrrhic dance"].
Greek Original:
Purrichê: eidos orchêseôs. tria de eisin eidê orchêseôs, purrichê, sikinnis kai kordakismos. Babrios: emoi genoito kan hodôi bainein mê katagelaston mêti purrichên paizein. hê kamêlos. purrichên emathe tên Kinêsiou. houtos ho Kinêsias dithurambopoios ên, epoiêse de purrichon. ê hoti en tois chorois pollêi kinêsei echrêto. kai epragmateusato kata tôn kômikôn, hôs eien achorêgêtoi. ên de kai peri to sôma oknêros hama kai kateskeleteukôs. dokei de kai katêschêmonêkenai tou tês Hekatês agalmatos, êgoun katatilai. ên de Thêbaios. Agathias: ho de Narsês sunekrotei tas dunameis kai eperrônnue ton thumon tais kathêmeran meletais, trochazein anankazôn kai huper tôn hippôn en kosmôi anapallesthai es te purrichên tina enoplion peridineisthai kai thama têi salpingi katabombeisthai to enualion êchousêi. kai Purrichizein, meta hoplôn orcheisthai. kai Purrichios orchêsis.
Notes:

See already pi 3224.
[1] Ps. Herodian. 115; scholiast on Lucian 136.3.
[2] Cf. pi 3159, sigma 396.
[3] Cf. kappa 2071.
[4] Babrius 80.3-4.
[5] Aristophanes, Frogs 153, followed by comment from the scholia there. (For Kinesias cf. kappa 1639.) The phrase humorously augments the categories of offender to be encountered by visitors to the underworld.
[6]See delta 1029 and kappa 2647 for the poets of the "new dithyramb" and the attacks by the comic playwrights on them.
[7]For Kinesias' legislation to deprive the comic playwrights of their choregiai, probably in or shortly after 405 BC, see delta 1029 note (based on sch. Aristoph. Ran. 404).
[8]See also kappa 822 and tau 693. Aristophanes mentions this three times: Frogs 366, Eccl. 329-30, Gerytades fr. 156.12-13 PCG vol. 3.2.
[9]But Pherecrates (fr.155.8 PCG vol. 7) calls him "the cursed Attic" (=Athenian).
[10]Agathias 2.1; cf. sigma 1303.
References:

Ceccarelli, P. La pirrica nell'antichitÃ* greco romana : studi sulla danza armata (1998)
Delavaud-Roux, M.-H. Les danses armées en Grèce antique (1993).
ead. Les danses dionysiaques en Grèce antique (1995)
ead.Les danses pacifiques en Grèce antique (1994)
Emmanuel, M. La Danse grecque antique d'après les monuments figurés (1984)
Henrichs A., "Warum soll ich denn tanzen?", Dionysisches im Chor der griechischen Tragödie (1996)
Lambropoulou, V. Choros kai armonia (1997)
Lawler, L.B. The Dance in Ancient Greece (1964)
Lonsdale, S. H. Dance and ritual play in Greek religion (1993)
Naerebout, F. G. Attractive performances, ancient Greek dance (1997)
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Elafonisos/Lakonia

-This god {Helios} has civilized, by the agency of the Hellenic colonies, the greatest part of the habitable globe; he has prepared it the more readily to submit to the Romans...

-Julian's Salutation to the Sun, Roman Emperor (331June 26, 363 ACE)
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Old 11-29-2007, 07:37 AM
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Any more in this issue?
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"Arha Ellas apo Oricias kai arhegonos Ellas Epiros"

"Greece starts at Oricus and the most ancient part of Greece is Epirus."

Claudius Ptolemy, The Geographer

http://www.hoplites.net/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/megist...arastashmaxon/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ancientgreekmapsandmore/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mapsoftheancientworld/
http://z11.invisionfree.com/Hegemony...index.php?c=11
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Old 01-11-2008, 05:31 PM
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Can we appoint subdivisions for these?Mollosian and Chaonian subdivisions?

* Thesprotians

The Elopes, Graeci, Kassopaeoi, Dryopes and Dodonians, (Greek: Δωδωναίος), Aegestaeoi, Eleaeoi, Elinoi, Ephyroi, Ikadotoi, Kartatoi, Kestrinoi, Klauthrioi, Kropioi, Larissaeoi, Onopernoi, Opatoi, Tiaeoi, Torydaeoi, Fanoteis, Farganaeoi, Fylates and the Chimerioi

* Chaonians

Dexari (Ancient Greek Δέξαροι)

* Molossians
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"Arha Ellas apo Oricias kai arhegonos Ellas Epiros"

"Greece starts at Oricus and the most ancient part of Greece is Epirus."

Claudius Ptolemy, The Geographer

http://www.hoplites.net/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/megist...arastashmaxon/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ancientgreekmapsandmore/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mapsoftheancientworld/
http://z11.invisionfree.com/Hegemony...index.php?c=11
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Old 03-02-2008, 06:51 PM
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__________________
"Arha Ellas apo Oricias kai arhegonos Ellas Epiros"

"Greece starts at Oricus and the most ancient part of Greece is Epirus."

Claudius Ptolemy, The Geographer

http://www.hoplites.net/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/megist...arastashmaxon/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ancientgreekmapsandmore/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mapsoftheancientworld/
http://z11.invisionfree.com/Hegemony...index.php?c=11
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