Ptolemy
07-20-2006, 11:40 AM
For some time now i notice there is a certain tedency from Skopjans to distort quotes from the german historian Ulrich Wilcken. Ulrich Wilcken is one of the strong supporters of the greekness of ancient Macedonians.
Lets analyse further the deliberate distortion of his quotes from Skopjan pseudohistorians.
The first distortion comes with the deliberate use of the following quote
Describing the all familiar episode with Cleitus: "He shouted in Macedonian for his hypaspists, and ordered the trumpeter to sound the alarm". [p167]
Here, they intentionally emphasize the phrase "in Macedonian" as it was a foreign language while "in Macedonian" refers to the ancient Macedonian greek dialect as we say "in Doric".
Another one taken out of context from Skopjans is:
The dislike was reciprocal, for the Macedonians had grown into a
proud masterful nation, which with highly developed national consciousness
looked down upon the Hellenes with contempt
The original quote of Wilcken with the missing part* that gives a new light is:
The Macedonians were a thoroughly healthy people, trained not by Greek athletics, but, like the Romans, by military service. But alongside much that was good, they had many rougher habits, retained from earlier times, such as excessive drinking, which tended to make them appear as barbarians in Greek eyes. The dislike was reciprocal, for the Macedonians had grown into a proud masterful nation, which with highly developed national consciousness looked down upon the Hellenes with contempt
(*) the missing part is in Blue.
The original quote supports our thesis that the limited characterisations of Macedonians as "Barbarians" from a few Greeks werent based in ethnological sense but of Cultural (ie. excessive drinkers) and partly political, as the quote of Wilcken verifies.
Another quote taken out of context is:
The beginnings of Macedonian history are shrouded in complete darkness. There is a keen controversy on the ethnological problem, whether the Macedonians were Greeks or not. Linguistic science has at its disposal a very limited quantity of Macedonian words, and the archaeological exploration has hardly begun.[Page 22]
The original quote of Wilcken is :
The beginnings of Macedonian history are shrouded in complete darkness. There is a keen controversy on the ethnological problem, whether the Macedonians were Greeks or not. Linguistic science has at its disposal a very limited quantity of Macedonian words, and the archaeological exploration has hardly begun. And yet when we take into account the political conditions, religion and morals of the Macedonians, our conviction is strengthened that they WERE A GREEK RACE AND AKIN TO THE DORIANS.
Wilcken is more than clear here. Macedonians WERE A GREEK RACE AND AKIN TO THE DORIANS. Of course Skopjans conveniently forget to add that part of his quote. :lol:
Another quote skopjans use is the one of page 22-23:
[quote]Even in Philip's day the Greeks saw in the Macedonians a non-Greek foreign people, and we must remember this if we are to understand the history of Philip and Alexander, and especially the resistance and obstacles which met them from the Greeks. The point is much more important than our modern conviction that Greeks and Macedonians were brethren; this was equally unknown to both, and therefore could have no political effect
Someone could ask...Why would though Greeks would have this impression of Macedonians as barbarians or non-greek people?
Wilcken makes it clear here:
Quite apart from the local separation of the two peoples, the barbaric impression which the Macedonians made on the Greeks is explained by the close relationship in which the Macedonians lived for centuries with their barbarian neighbours, the Illyrians (the ancestors of the Albanians of to-day) in the West, and the Thracians in the East
We learn here from Wilcken finally the reason. Its their contact with their Barbarian neighbours which gave to ancient Macedonians some barbarian elements and made some greeks to have this impression.
But Wilcken makes it more clear in his following quote:
" A strong Illyrian and Thracian influence can thus be recognized in
Macedonian speech and manners. These however are only TRIFLES compared with the GREEK character of the Macedonian nationality; for example, the names of the true full-blooded Macedonians, especially of the princes and nobles, are purely Greek in their formation and sounds. Above all, the FUNDAMENTAL features of Macedonian political institutions are NOT ONLY GREEK but primitive GREEK.
Again Wilcken underlines there is limited influence from Illyrians and Thracians BUT these are "ONLY TRIFLES" compared with the Greek character of the Macedonian nationality!!!!! Things couldnt be more clear for Wilcken. Macedonian nationality is GREEK.
Lets analyse further the deliberate distortion of his quotes from Skopjan pseudohistorians.
The first distortion comes with the deliberate use of the following quote
Describing the all familiar episode with Cleitus: "He shouted in Macedonian for his hypaspists, and ordered the trumpeter to sound the alarm". [p167]
Here, they intentionally emphasize the phrase "in Macedonian" as it was a foreign language while "in Macedonian" refers to the ancient Macedonian greek dialect as we say "in Doric".
Another one taken out of context from Skopjans is:
The dislike was reciprocal, for the Macedonians had grown into a
proud masterful nation, which with highly developed national consciousness
looked down upon the Hellenes with contempt
The original quote of Wilcken with the missing part* that gives a new light is:
The Macedonians were a thoroughly healthy people, trained not by Greek athletics, but, like the Romans, by military service. But alongside much that was good, they had many rougher habits, retained from earlier times, such as excessive drinking, which tended to make them appear as barbarians in Greek eyes. The dislike was reciprocal, for the Macedonians had grown into a proud masterful nation, which with highly developed national consciousness looked down upon the Hellenes with contempt
(*) the missing part is in Blue.
The original quote supports our thesis that the limited characterisations of Macedonians as "Barbarians" from a few Greeks werent based in ethnological sense but of Cultural (ie. excessive drinkers) and partly political, as the quote of Wilcken verifies.
Another quote taken out of context is:
The beginnings of Macedonian history are shrouded in complete darkness. There is a keen controversy on the ethnological problem, whether the Macedonians were Greeks or not. Linguistic science has at its disposal a very limited quantity of Macedonian words, and the archaeological exploration has hardly begun.[Page 22]
The original quote of Wilcken is :
The beginnings of Macedonian history are shrouded in complete darkness. There is a keen controversy on the ethnological problem, whether the Macedonians were Greeks or not. Linguistic science has at its disposal a very limited quantity of Macedonian words, and the archaeological exploration has hardly begun. And yet when we take into account the political conditions, religion and morals of the Macedonians, our conviction is strengthened that they WERE A GREEK RACE AND AKIN TO THE DORIANS.
Wilcken is more than clear here. Macedonians WERE A GREEK RACE AND AKIN TO THE DORIANS. Of course Skopjans conveniently forget to add that part of his quote. :lol:
Another quote skopjans use is the one of page 22-23:
[quote]Even in Philip's day the Greeks saw in the Macedonians a non-Greek foreign people, and we must remember this if we are to understand the history of Philip and Alexander, and especially the resistance and obstacles which met them from the Greeks. The point is much more important than our modern conviction that Greeks and Macedonians were brethren; this was equally unknown to both, and therefore could have no political effect
Someone could ask...Why would though Greeks would have this impression of Macedonians as barbarians or non-greek people?
Wilcken makes it clear here:
Quite apart from the local separation of the two peoples, the barbaric impression which the Macedonians made on the Greeks is explained by the close relationship in which the Macedonians lived for centuries with their barbarian neighbours, the Illyrians (the ancestors of the Albanians of to-day) in the West, and the Thracians in the East
We learn here from Wilcken finally the reason. Its their contact with their Barbarian neighbours which gave to ancient Macedonians some barbarian elements and made some greeks to have this impression.
But Wilcken makes it more clear in his following quote:
" A strong Illyrian and Thracian influence can thus be recognized in
Macedonian speech and manners. These however are only TRIFLES compared with the GREEK character of the Macedonian nationality; for example, the names of the true full-blooded Macedonians, especially of the princes and nobles, are purely Greek in their formation and sounds. Above all, the FUNDAMENTAL features of Macedonian political institutions are NOT ONLY GREEK but primitive GREEK.
Again Wilcken underlines there is limited influence from Illyrians and Thracians BUT these are "ONLY TRIFLES" compared with the Greek character of the Macedonian nationality!!!!! Things couldnt be more clear for Wilcken. Macedonian nationality is GREEK.