Another reason why Cypriots piss me off....

[zefs]

Greek Cyprus-Greece defense pact defunct- min

Greek Cypriot defense minister said Monday that a military pact signed with Greece 15 years ago is defunct, a major policy shift seen as an attempt to boost reunification talks on the ethnically divided island.


The 1993 Joint Defense Pact, under which Greece would come to Greek Cypriots' aid if Turkish troops crossed the 112-mile (180-kilometer) cease-fire line that splits the island, existed only in theory and lacked substance, Costas Papacostas said in a television interview.

His comments came as Turkish Cypriot leader Mehmet Ali Talat and his Greek Cypriot counterpart Demetris Christofias hold reunification talks on the Mediterranean island, which has been divided since 1964 when Turkish Cypriots were forced to withdraw into enclaves.

"It was just fireworks," Papacostas was quoted by the AP as saying on state-run CyBC television of the pact that Greek and Greek Cypriot officials had said as recently as last year remained in effect.

Papacostas said Greece could still help the Greek Cypriots in case of armed conflict, but did not elaborate. He also said that Greek armed forces would continue to help train the Greek Cypriot National Guard.

In addition to the Turkish Cypriot Peace Forces Command (KTBK), made up of 4,500 Turkish Cypriots, there are around 35,000 Turkish troops stationed on the island.

Turkey, Greece and Britain countries remain the guarantor powers for the island, which gained independence from Britain in 1960.




phantis.com

[chicagogeorge]

Yet again it is the Greeks who given in for the spirit of negotiations. Obviously the Greek Cypriot admin is doing this as a peace gesture. No I wonder if the Turks would remove just half of the 35,000 troops in Northern Cyprus as a peace gesture.

[Theofilos]

Yet again it is the Greeks who given in for the spirit of negotiations. Obviously the Greek Cypriot admin is doing this as a peace gesture. No I wonder if the Turks would remove just half of the 35,000 troops in Northern Cyprus as a peace gesture.

hahahahahaha. let's keep dreaming mate.

[Tsontos]

Zefs, it's partly Greece's fault the Cypriots are distancing themselves from our military agreements. When Papadopoulos was playing hardball with the Turks and protecting Greek Cypriot interests our foreign ministry under both ND and PASOK were telling them if they do that and keep Turkey out of the EU then Greece can't continue to support them the way we have.

Now the communist Christofias is in and he is doing what Bakogianni wanted the Cyps to do: stop playing hardball and make big concessions.

I hope there is no solution (because Erdgogan and the TC's wont accept any solution not balanced in favour of Turkish Cypriots), Christofias and the other stalinist clowns piss off and the Hellenic and Cypriot Republics realise they are two parts of one indivisible nation.

[Relax be]

The Greek Cypriots better start doing what is good for Cyprus and forget about Greece. They have been in enough crap with their enosis ideas and what not.

[kzk842]

The Greek Cypriots better start doing what is good for Cyprus and forget about Greece. They have been in enough crap with their enosis ideas and what not.

They dont believe in enosis (neither we) lets say about 30 to 40 years now...

[Relax be]

They dont believe in enosis (neither we) lets say about 30 to 40 years now...

They never should have believed in that stuff in the first place. If Makarios was left to get on with the job, things may have turned out differently.

[kzk842]

It was the obvious for them to believe to the union cause the island had at 1974 82% Greek Cypriots.But when you have neighbors the Turks nothing is obvious and logical.

[Tsontos]

relax be what the hell are you talking about? where is enosis promoted by anyone in this situation?

Enothta (unity), rather than Enosis (union) should be the aim today. As I said the Hellenic Republic and the Republic of Cyprus are two parts of one nation.

[Relax be]

relax be what the hell are you talking about? where is enosis promoted by anyone in this situation?

Enothta (unity), rather than Enosis (union) should be the aim today. As I said the Hellenic Republic and the Republic of Cyprus are two parts of one nation.

The Republic of Cyrus needs to worry about only one, Cyprus.If Greece didn't stick her nose into Cyprus and overthrow Makarios, things would have been very different. Lets hope this new president is a diplomat and extends the arm across the other side of Cyprus.

If I can recall, in the last referendum, the majority of Greeks voted against unification while the majority of Turks voted for unification.

[Mygdonia]

They never should have believed in that stuff in the first place. If Makarios was left to get on with the job, things may have turned out differently.

I don't think you understand much.

Cyprus was a Cold War toy for the big boys.

Greece was under a military Junta from the United States to sway it from being influenced by the communist blocks.

Cyprus was deeply split in two between commies and nationalists.

Makarios was visiting every communist capital and even imported weapons from Czechoslavakia.

This was the green light for the Turkish invasion.

It was all cold war politics.

[chicagogeorge]

The Greek Cypriots better start doing what is good for Cyprus and forget about Greece. They have been in enough crap with their enosis ideas and what not.

They already achieved Enosis with Greece..... As they are now in the EU with Greece. :) Unfortunately you will never see Enosis with Bulgaria as your country will not join the EU under the current situation.;)

[Relax be]

I don't think you understand much.

Cyprus was a Cold War toy for the big boys.

Greece was under a military Junta from the United States to sway it from being influenced by the communist blocks.

Cyprus was deeply split in two between commies and nationalists.

Makarios was visiting every communist capital and even imported weapons from Czechoslavakia.

This was the green light for the Turkish invasion.

It was all cold war politics.

I disagree. Makarios abandoned his enosis ideas early on before he took the leadership ,definitely by the time he assumed the leadership in the 60's. Although he was Greek, he was a moderate and you could probably make a case that he was a figurehead for both the communities.
I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt since he was an orthodox priest, so at least he should have had a decent moral grounding that allowed him to be humane to the Turkish Cypriots.

[Kiril Evangelovski]

I disagree. Makarios abandoned his enosis ideas early on before he took the leadership. Although he was Greek, he was a moderate and you could probably make a case that he was a figurehead for both the communities.
I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt since he was an orthodox priest, so at least he should have had a decent moral grounding that allowed him to be humane to the Turkish Cypriots.

Relax you are as clueless about Makarios as you are about Greek Macedonians. Unfortunately for you your Turkish buddies have collected Makarios' sayings regarding Enosis. Now, sure, compared to the EOKA B' crowd he was a moderate and at the same time compared to the "NeoCypriot" factions within AKEL especially he was a nationalist.

That notwithstanding, the Greek side messed up royally in Cyprus - giving the Turks the excuse (not the reason mind you) to invade, cleanse and occupy almost half the island. And at the time the supporters of Enosis were not the majority (by far) among either mainland Greeks (who yearned to be free of the junta) or Cypriot Greeks (who had already seen far too much bloodshed).

But instead of giving cheap advice to the Cypriots you should ask yourself why your government is interfering in Cypriot matters and clearly siding with the Turkish Cypriots. To me the answer is clear - doing favors to the enemy (Turkey) of my enemy (Greece); it's you that pretends to hold a high moral ground (more like sitting ontop a pile of manure in fact).

[Petros Houhoulis]

The Greek Cypriots better start doing what is good for Cyprus and forget about Greece. They have been in enough crap with their enosis ideas and what not.

Greece does not mess up with the Cypriots. They have their own government and decide on their own. Nevertheless, the Cypriots are clever enough to know that without Greece, Cyprus would still be a part of Turkey.

[Orphic_Hymn]

If I can recall, in the last referendum, the majority of Greeks voted against unification while the majority of Turks voted for unification.
This isn't an issue to be approached under such a simplistic mentality.. Try to understand for once that you first learn the facts and then you attempt to discuss the issue.
Now read and learn why they said OXI (http://www.macedoniaontheweb.com/forum/cyprus-forum/45-why-no-annan-plan.html)

[Relax be]

This isn't an issue to be approached under such a simplistic mentality.. Try to understand for once that you first learn the facts and then you attempt to discuss the issue.
Now read and learn why they said OXI (http://www.macedoniaontheweb.com/forum/cyprus-forum/45-why-no-annan-plan.html)

Read carefully. The Greek cypriots will need to accept that Cyprus will remain de facto partitioned under a loose federation. The Turks and Talat wont settle for a strong federation like Christofias wants, the Turks won't subject themselves to Greek domination again. The Turkish settlers will also remain there, they won't be going anywhere. They will find a solution to the right of refugees to return, that at least is more probable and the Turkish troops will withdraw. But there is no coming back to pre 1974 Cyprus.

If the Greeks still want to dominate the island, they can simple say no thanks to unification and let the Turkish cypriots get on with their business instead of holding them hostage.

[Orphic_Hymn]

Read carefully. The Greek cypriots will need to accept that Cyprus will remain de facto partitioned under a loose federation. The Turks and Talat wont settle for a strong federation like Christofias wants, the Turks won't subject themselves to Greek domination again. The Turkish settlers will also remain there, they won't be going anywhere. They will find a solution to the right of refugees to return, that at least is more probable and the Turkish troops will withdraw. But there is no coming back to pre 1974 Cyprus.

If the Greeks still want to dominate the island, they can simple say no thanks to unification and let the Turkish cypriots get on with their business instead of holding them hostage.

Interestingly enough you're found promoting the Turkish and not Turkish Cypriot views on the issue.. As I already said your simplistic mentality is not the correct way to approach the issue and parroting Turkish views does little to assist you in this discussion. So do leave the domination BS out of what you obviously know little if not nothing about.

Turkish Cypriots unlike what Turkey and her lackeys wish (with you being a fine depiction of one) are indeed interested in seeing the island reunited, exactly as are the Hellenic Cypriots. Both populations are fed up with the current situation (the Hellenic Cypriots waking up to seeing illegal occupation forces on their lands and the Turkish Cypriots being oppressed and having their jobs taken from them by illegal sttlers from the mainland which Turkey imposes upon them) and fully understand that consessions from both sides must be made.. its hard core nationalist Turks and their lackeys that ignore, either due to simple ignorance or mallicious intent the true will of the people.

[Relax be]

Interestingly enough you're found promoting the Turkish and not Turkish Cypriot views on the issue.. As I already said your simplistic mentality is not the correct way to approach the issue and parroting Turkish views does little to assist you in this discussion. So do leave the domination BS out of what you obviously know little if not nothing about.

Turkish Cypriots unlike what Turkey and her lackeys wish (with you being a fine depiction of one) are indeed interested in seeing the island reunited, exactly as are the Hellenic Cypriots. Both populations are fed up with the current situation (the Hellenic Cypriots waking up to seeing illegal occupation forces on their lands and the Turkish Cypriots being oppressed and having their jobs taken from them by illegal sttlers from the mainland which Turkey imposes upon them) and fully understand that consessions from both sides must be made.. its hard core nationalist Turks and their lackeys that ignore, either due to simple ignorance or mallicious intent the true will of the people.

Instead of harping out, how about you address the points that I raised:

It is unrealistic to think you can tell the settlers to pack your bags and go. There may be at most some token gestures.

It is unrealistic to expect anything more than a loose federation, and a de facto partition, something along the lines of Bosnia, although the Cypriots at least want to cohabitate to a greater extent.

The numbers of refugees (Greeks/Turks) settling on the other side of the dividing line and vice verse won't be significant, so you are looking at financial compensation.

The Turks will withdraw their forces without any real obstacles.

[Orphic_Hymn]

Instead of harping out, how about you address the points that I raised:

It is unrealistic to think you can tell the settlers to pack your bags and go. There may be at most some token gestures.

It is unrealistic to expect anything more than a loose federation, and a de facto partition, something along the lines of Bosnia, although the Cypriots at least want to cohabitate to a greater extent.

The numbers of refugees (Greeks/Turks) settling on the other side of the dividing line and vice verse won't be significant, so you are looking at financial compensation.

The Turks will withdraw their forces without any real obstacles.

What points? the have tos and the musts ?
What is unrealistic is your simplistic comprehension of the issue and the ease with which you totally legitimize the illegal invasion and occupation of Cypriot lands by Turkey, by literally promoting partition. A partion which obviously isn't in accordance with the desire of the Cypriots.. which in reality is the only desire that is of any interest here.

Whats equally unrealistic is that you believe that the Cypriots (meaning both communities) should have the illegal settlers which were imposed upon them by Turkey allowed to remain even though their very own breathen, the Turkish Cypriots openly reject to their settlement.

As far as refugees go.. when and only when Turkey stops exploiting the illegally occupied lands, illegally selling them and they are returned to their rightful owners, only then can we make estimates on how many will return to their homes.

[Pan]

Relax be.

Do you think in a democratic country that 15% of the population should dictate to the 85% what they should do?

Do you also think that when a country invades and occupies your country, you should pay for the reparations to your own people who had their property stolen from them and pay for the occupiers's friends's loss from the areas that they willingly evacuated and the invaders pay nothing?

Do you think that the occupying forces and the local population have the right to dismantle the monastaries and churches, to also dessecrate the resting places of the dead to the population who were forcibly removed from these areas?

Do you also think it is right for the information of the missing Cypriots from the invasion to still be witheld by the invading forces to this day?

Do you think it is ok for the occupying forces to have the right to go anywhere on the island and the legitimate forces of the island are not?

Do you think that the thousands of subsequent immigrants that were sent to the occupied north to swell the local population to increase their say, should be allowed to stay?

You could try reading the Annan plan and see how one sided it is, you will then realise why the Hellenes in the south voted against it!

Look forward to your reply on these questions.

[Bardas]

If I can recall, in the last referendum, the majority of Greeks voted against unification while the majority of Turks voted for unification.

Prior to that referendum, that nig-nog (he gets no respect from me), Annan came up with five "plans". The Turkish side had rejected the previous four. With pressure from the Brits, Annan finally came up with his so-called "fifth plan", which the Turks finally agreed to for a referendum. They agreed to it because it suited them. It would have been to their advantage especially since it would given them the opportunity to opt out of it at any time. The day that plan was announced, the Turkish press was ablaze with "We got what we wanted". And it was also designed so if the Greek side rejected it then they would have come across as the bad guys. So what the Greek side did was reject Annan's fifth plan, not reunification.

Under the circumstances and the dirty machinations in play, it was the best move by the Greek side. Because Cyprus did get into the EU, reunification is still on the table, and the Turks are very well aware that this will be their biggest road block to membership.

[Pan]

The reason why the Brits are so desperate for the Turk's say so, is because the Turk has agreed they can keep their bases there. Just as the Brits said to the Turk when he invaded.

"Let us keep our bases here and we will remain silent on your actions".:angry:

How can Britain legitimately have 2 votes on the government of Kypros. I thought it was a sovereign nation!!!

Relax be. Read the Annan plan for the capitulation of the Hellenes. Then tell us you would have voted for it if it had been you. It was not a close call. Virtually unanimous.