Alexander was Ginger ?

[Dyutazn]

Is that true,what ancient Greeks (Macedonians),and Alexander was Ginger ?

[Tsontos]

The only depictions (I know of), portray him with blonde or brown hair and never red/ ginger.

[kzk842]

The only depictions (I know of), portray him with blonde or brown hair and never red/ ginger.

Which depictions are those Tsontos?From ancient writers?I couldn't find anything like this..

[kostas68]

I think Arrian describes him as blond but i can't remember the concrete excerpt.

[Dyutazn]

My last book which I was reading,was about << Alexander Campaign’s >>,written by Arrian and Rufus.
But there were never mentioned, what kind of hair and eye color, he had …
Then I find some interesting pictures,in internet which says that he and Greeks were red haired / gingers .

Alexander the Great hunting

http://xs231.xs.to/xs231/08370/alexander_the_great_hunting660.jpg

Alexander Sarcophagus http://xs231.xs.to/xs231/08370/alexander_sarcophagus_colour948.jpg

Similar to the first, Macedonians hunting

http://xs231.xs.to/xs231/08370/similar_to_the_first__macedonians_hunting182.jpg

[Tsontos]

The most famous colour depiction of him, the Pompeii Mosaic, shows him with brown hair:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/romans/images/pompeii_art_alexander_great.jpg

It is generally accepted and as described by the ancient historians that he had fair colored hair, possibly blond, but not much blond.

another depictions of him as blonde (I dont know where it's from):

http://www.macedoniaontheweb.com/macedonia-multimedia/watermark.php?file=547&size=1


My last book which I was reading,was about << Alexander Campaign’s >>,written by Arrian and Rufus.
But there were never mentioned, what kind of hair and eye color, he had …
Then I find some interesting pictures,in internet which says that he and Greeks were red haired / gingers .


As for the Greeks in general they werent ginger or blonde for the most part. Ginger hair was especially rare for Greeks. The 'comic' Xenophanes said on the subject of God:


The Ethiops say their gods are flat-nosed and black

While the Thracians say that theirs have blue eyes and red hair

Yet if cattle or horses or lions had hands and could draw

And could sculpture like men, then horses would draw their gods

Like horses, and cattle like cattle, and each would shape

Bodies of gods in the likeness, each kind, of its own

It shows above that The Thracians were stereotyped and distinguished by Greeks as being red-haired and blue-eyed. When someone in Greek history or mythology is blonde or ginger this is highlighted by the authors eg. Helen of Troy and Alexander because it was rare in ancient Greece.

It's also worth noting that Greeks often used red-hair dye. From Howstuffworks's "How Hair Coloring Works":

For a long time, hair coloring has been serious business! For example, would-be heroes of ancient Greece used harsh soaps and bleaches to lighten and redden their hair to the color that was identified with honor and courage.


and from this website: http://www.beauty-and-the-bath.com/history-of-classic-hair-styles.html :


Color as well played a very significant role for beauty standards.
Blond hair was thought of as ideal and in a time that was ruled by divinity, appeared to be god or goddess-like and warranted one a superior social standing.

Blond hair was also considered to signify purity, innocence, divinity, and sexual desirability.

This would definitely be the period in hair history where blonds did have more fun!

The men and women of Ancient Greece strove to meet these standards in their hair styles to appease their deities, for the beliefs of these ancients was the governing factor of all their efforts.

In their quest to equal or mirror their deities, both men and women in early Greece created some of the original innovations in hair coloring, in keeping with their adoration for blond hair.

...

Some of the earliest documentation of hair lightening originates from this time.
At first men would use gold dust and pollen, sprinkling it through their hair after styling, women would use a solution of potassium, yellow flower petals and pollen to wash their hair.

More permanent methods began to develop in the 4th century B.C.,from Athens.
A hair appointment at that time would consist of having one's hair rinsed with this ointment, and then sitting for long periods of time to bleach the hair.

This bleaching ointment may have been made using the natural recourses available at that time, olive oils, citrus juice, pollens, and gold flecks.

The Greeks as well as the Egyptians also favored dyed wigs of red, silver, and especially, gold.

Some more pics of ancient Greeks:

http://i328.photobucket.com/albums/l339/kolonea/ellinides.jpg

[Tsontos]

My last book which I was reading,was about << Alexander Campaign’s >>,written by Arrian and Rufus.
But there were never mentioned, what kind of hair and eye color, he had …
Then I find some interesting pictures,in internet which says that he and Greeks were red haired / gingers .


Further to this, Lloyd Llewellyn-Jones in his Aphrodite's Tortoise: The Veiled Women of Ancient Greece writes about the color spectrum associated with red:

Page 225 Investigation of the Greek and Latin texts shows that the ancient view of red actually incorporated a colour-band that runs from modern-day yellow to red to purple. In the Attic Nights of Aulus Gellius, after all, Favorinus' treatise on the red-yellow band of colour confirms that what we would ordinarily classify within the yellow color stratum, the ancients were happy to see as red. For Favorinus, flammeum, croceum, aureum, xanthos, erythros, pyrros and kirros are all shades of red, and, in this, the Roman philosopher follows a line taken by Aristotle in his Meterorologica. (Author's italics)

So … in the ancient sources fair can mean red, yet red can mean yellow – which means, in essence, that Alexander’s hair could have been either. We’ll never know for sure. :)

[Astoria]

I'de like to add a few points.

An ancient source that describes Alexander's hair as fair is Aelian VH xii.14 (kome: xanthe), he also says that Alexander's appearance is naturally attractive but also alarming.

Here is Alexander on the tomb Phillip in Vergina:
http://www.history.ccsu.edu/elias/taphosphilippoub_files/image020.png
Shows him as having fair hair.
taken from here:http://www.history.ccsu.edu/elias/taphosphilippoub.htm


Blonde, redish, brown, etc...was not uncommon in acient Greece as is today.
For instance, here's some quotes:

The Iliad - Book I (http://www.goddess-athena.org/Museum/Paintings/Troy/Achilles_anger_Flaxman.htm)
...and seized the son of Peleus by his yellow hair, visible to him alone, for of the others no man could see her.

The Iliad - Book 17 (http://www.greektexts.com/library/Homer/Iliad_(Rapsodies_13_to_18)/eng/132.html)
As a cow stands lowing over her first calf, even so did yellow-haired Menelaus bestride Patroclus.


The Odyssey Book 7: (http://homer.thefreelibrary.com/Odyssey/1-7#Gaia)
...which those of my people who saw it when they took yellow-haired Rhadamanthus to see Tityus the son of Gaia. . .

The Odyssey Book 13: (http://books.google.ca/books?id=3qwoRrFrv04C&pg=PA110&lpg=PA110&dq=I+will+begin+by+disguising+you+so+that+no+human +being+shall+know+you;&source=web&ots=EIMQLYQ68n&sig=XHREVILeQZYUaWu8bBwbiWaUdQ4&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result)
...(Minerva, talking to Odysseus), " I will begin by disguising you so that no human being shall know you; I will cover your body with wrinkles; you shall lose all your yellow hair...”
“As she spoke Minerva touched him with her wand and covered him with wrinkles, took away all his yellow hair, and withered the flesh over his whole body;


HIPPOLYTUS, BY EURIPIDES (http://books.google.ca/books?id=UBB8gsI_0FYC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_summary_r&cad=0)

Antistrophe 1
Was wasting on the bed of sickness, pent within her house, a thin veil o'ershadowing her head of golden hair.

Phardra
... Ye gods! what joy to hark them on, to grasp the barbed dart, to poise Thessalian hunting-spears close to my golden hair, then let them fly.


You can see here the Greek hairstyles from the Ancients
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/Fashion3.htm

Here is a look at todays scientists trying to immitate what was done over 2thousand years ago by Greeks and Romans.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/10/061004180504.htm

[Tsontos]

http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/Fashion/HairStyles.png



You can see here the Greek hairstyles from the Ancients
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/Fashion3.htm

That's Helen of Troy. Her blonde hair, like Alexander's was highlighted by authors because it was not the norm.

[Nikas]

Apart from Aelians description, Plutarch describes Alexander with "ruddy" skin but makes no mention of his hair colour. The difficulty with "xanthein", is that it can mean anything from blonde to light brown, as there is a depiction of "browning" fish that is refered to also as "xanthezein". We even have sources that say Alexander had one blue and one brown eye!

We also have different visual representations of Alexander, with a reddish/blond tint on the "Alexander Sarcophagus" duplicated to a degree to the Pompeii mosaic depicting Alexander as Zeus. Then of course there is the more famous Pompeii House of Faun depiction which has Alexander as a brunette (with perhaps blonde streaks?). When one factors in a perhaps concious decision of Alexander to be compared to Achilles (he is represented with "yellow" hair by Homer), one has to wonder how much was factual and how much invented.

I would hazard a somewhat reasonable guess that Alexander must have been a little atypical for all, and perhaps slightly fairer than some of his peers, but definitely not your "Germanic" blonde.

[MAKEDONELLHNAS]

I'de like to add a few points.

An ancient source that describes Alexander's hair as fair is Aelian VH xii.14 (kome: xanthe), he also says that Alexander's appearance is naturally attractive but also alarming.

Here is Alexander on the tomb Phillip in Vergina:
http://www.history.ccsu.edu/elias/taphosphilippoub_files/image020.png
Shows him as having fair hair.
taken from here:http://www.history.ccsu.edu/elias/taphosphilippoub.htm


Blonde, redish, brown, etc...was not uncommon in acient Greece as is today.
For instance, here's some quotes:

The Iliad - Book I (http://www.goddess-athena.org/Museum/Paintings/Troy/Achilles_anger_Flaxman.htm)
...and seized the son of Peleus by his yellow hair, visible to him alone, for of the others no man could see her.

The Iliad - Book 17 (http://www.greektexts.com/library/Homer/Iliad_(Rapsodies_13_to_18)/eng/132.html)
As a cow stands lowing over her first calf, even so did yellow-haired Menelaus bestride Patroclus.


The Odyssey Book 7: (http://homer.thefreelibrary.com/Odyssey/1-7#Gaia)
...which those of my people who saw it when they took yellow-haired Rhadamanthus to see Tityus the son of Gaia. . .

The Odyssey Book 13: (http://books.google.ca/books?id=3qwoRrFrv04C&pg=PA110&lpg=PA110&dq=I+will+begin+by+disguising+you+so+that+no+human +being+shall+know+you;&source=web&ots=EIMQLYQ68n&sig=XHREVILeQZYUaWu8bBwbiWaUdQ4&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result)
...(Minerva, talking to Odysseus), " I will begin by disguising you so that no human being shall know you; I will cover your body with wrinkles; you shall lose all your yellow hair...”
“As she spoke Minerva touched him with her wand and covered him with wrinkles, took away all his yellow hair, and withered the flesh over his whole body;


HIPPOLYTUS, BY EURIPIDES (http://books.google.ca/books?id=UBB8gsI_0FYC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_summary_r&cad=0)

Antistrophe 1
Was wasting on the bed of sickness, pent within her house, a thin veil o'ershadowing her head of golden hair.

Phardra
... Ye gods! what joy to hark them on, to grasp the barbed dart, to poise Thessalian hunting-spears close to my golden hair, then let them fly.


You can see here the Greek hairstyles from the Ancients
http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/Fashion3.htm

Here is a look at todays scientists trying to immitate what was done over 2thousand years ago by Greeks and Romans.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/10/061004180504.htm

Thats funny because in my copy of Iliad it refers to Menelaus as red haired

[MAKEDONELLHNAS]

My last book which I was reading,was about << Alexander Campaign’s >>,written by Arrian and Rufus.
But there were never mentioned, what kind of hair and eye color, he had …
Then I find some interesting pictures,in internet which says that he and Greeks were red haired / gingers .

Alexander the Great hunting

http://xs231.xs.to/xs231/08370/alexander_the_great_hunting660.jpg

Alexander Sarcophagus http://xs231.xs.to/xs231/08370/alexander_sarcophagus_colour948.jpg

Similar to the first, Macedonians hunting

http://xs231.xs.to/xs231/08370/similar_to_the_first__macedonians_hunting182.jpg

The last picture i think the coloring is wrong, this is the real one i took myself at Pella, and the color of the hair is blond not red, you kinda see it in this pic.

http://www.macedoniaontheweb.com/macedonia-multimedia/showphoto.php/photo/333/ppuser/10

[Dyutazn]

Here is a sculpture of Alexander The Great made by Lysippus,
http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/6900/lysippusalexanderni0.jpg
Who was in his campaignes.
He never mentioned what a hair colour he had ?

Not only Menelaus was Blond,but Achilles too,as it’s written in Homer’s Iliad.

I’ve seen once, picture of Minoan female(s) or Goddess with Golden Hairs and blue eyes,but I can’t find it in the internet,for showing you …

I am sure that in old times blondes and gingers were not minority in society …

Mostly in Indo-European speaking nations - mythologies you can find a lot of Heroes, Gods,Goddesses with that hair colour.

Teseus who killed Minotaur was ginger ?

[Orphic_Hymn]

Thats funny because in my copy of Iliad it refers to Menelaus as red haired

Can't be so.. since in 17.6 it reads:
ὣς περὶ Πατρόκλῳ βαῖνε ξανθὸς Μενέλαος

but just in case it does in some other part, do post the rapsody and verse you're refering to so that we can look into it.

[Orphic_Hymn]

I am sure that in old times blondes and gingers were not minority in society …


J.Lawrence Angel in his Social Biology of Greek Culture Growth presents the following table:
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c259/panosvls/angeltable.jpg

through it we can safely say that while blondes obviously did exist (just like they do today) at no time did they compose anything but a minority when compared to the other racial types.

[pankration]

Wow...all this scholarly research on the color of Alexander's hair?!

[MAKEDONELLHNAS]

Can't be so.. since in 17.6 it reads:
ὣς περὶ Πατρόκλῳ βαῖνε ξανθὸς Μενέλαος

but just in case it does in some other part, do post the rapsody and verse you're refering to so that we can look into it.

This is from "The Illiad" translated by Robert Fagles.

Book 4, 212 "But the red-haired Menelaus tried to calm him"

Book 4, 241 "And gaining the place where the red-haired Menelaus"

Book 3, 508 "no more battling with fiery-haired Menelaus"

[Spartan]

From what I understand Alexanders hair was light brown to a dirty bloned(dark blonde). This would be natural considering that many Epirotans(His mother was Mollosian) were of the same hair type.

[Spartan]

I will say though that red hair did exist, even in the Spartans. My yiayia who was from Mesa Mani as isolated from the outside world as possible was a red head but not the typical 'ginger' type but dark. Ginger usually refers to bright red hair and not the dark.

[Spartan]

Here is a sculpture of Alexander The Great made by Lysippus,
http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/6900/lysippusalexanderni0.jpg
Who was in his campaignes.
He never mentioned what a hair colour he had ?

Not only Menelaus was Blond,but Achilles too,as it’s written in Homer’s Iliad.

I’ve seen once, picture of Minoan female(s) or Goddess with Golden Hairs and blue eyes,but I can’t find it in the internet,for showing you …

I am sure that in old times blondes and gingers were not minority in society …

Mostly in Indo-European speaking nations - mythologies you can find a lot of Heroes, Gods,Goddesses with that hair colour.

Teseus who killed Minotaur was ginger ?

I would like to see that image because every Minoan fresco I have ever seen shows them with black hair. Blonde and red was present but was not predominant otherwise they would have not been mentioned specifically by the ancient sources.

[Orphic_Hymn]

This is from "The Illiad" translated by Robert Fagles.

Book 4, 212 "But the red-haired Menelaus tried to calm him"

Book 4, 241 "And gaining the place where the red-haired Menelaus"

Book 3, 508 "no more battling with fiery-haired Menelaus"

Managed to find the translation you mention here (http://books.google.com/books?id=eDUFV3g-ud4C&pg=PP1&dq=Robert+Fagles+iliad&hl=el&sig=ACfU3U1EqiKIjaY5ShjCljJ0JWn9YKFqQQ) and from the looks of it, seems to be a bad one. (I'll explain)
the text is a follows.

4.212 : Ἀλλ᾽ ὅτε δή ῥ᾽ ἵκανον ὅθι ξανθὸς Μενέλαος

Don't see why he'd mistranslate "ξανθὸς" as red.

4.241 : I can't find any reference to Menelaus in this verse. After reading the translation, I can only state that it is a mistranslation since 4.240-243 have no connection to what he's presented :

Οὕς τινας αὖ μεθιέντας ἴδοι στυγεροῦ πολέμοιο,
τοὺς μάλα νεικείεσκε χολωτοῖσιν ἐπέεσσιν·
Ἀργεῖοι ἰόμωροι ἐλεγχέες οὔ νυ σέβεσθε;


the verse in question (.... warlords passed around him) is 4.220 but there's no reference to his hair:

Ὄφρα τοὶ ἀμφεπένοντο βοὴν ἀγαθὸν Μενέλαον,
τόφρα δ᾽ ἐπὶ Τρώων στίχες ἤλυθον ἀσπιστάων

The mistranslation I mentioned is evident in the 3.508 quote, since rapsody 3 has a total of 461 verses. So he managed to extend it to 540 (79 verses) which means he's adding words not included in the original. Anyway, the verse in question is 3.443-4 :

ἀλλά σ᾽ ἔγωγε παύεσθαι κέλομαι, μηδὲ ξανθῷ Μενελάῳ

Guess I'm saying that some translations simply can't be trusted.

[Dyutazn]

I would like to see that image because every Minoan fresco I have ever seen shows them with black hair. Blonde and red was present but was not predominant otherwise they would have not been mentioned specifically by the ancient sources.

I will try to find it.