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Grace
08-21-2008, 10:16 AM
Very interesting about Albanian migrations to today's Greece and also other parts of Europe:

"Most modern, as well as a good number of early authors have indicated that the stradioti were Albanian. This is true to a certain extent but has to be qualified. A Greek author made a study of the names of stradioti found in the most extensive documentary collection of materials dealing with the stradioti and found that some 80% of the names were of Albanian origin, while the rest were of Greek origin.[20] This writer looked over lists of stradioti in the same source, Mnemeia Hellenikes Historias: Documents inedits a l'histoire de la Grece au Moyen Age, edited by Konstantinos Sathas, as well as the indices of the fifty-odd volumes of I Diarii di Marino Sanuto.

This investigation found that indeed many of the names were Albanian, but a good number of the names particularly those of officers, were of Greek origin, such as Palaiologos, Spandounios, Laskaris, Rhalles, Comnenos, Psendakis, Maniatis, Spyliotis, Alexopoulos, Psaris, Zacharopoulos, Klirakopoulos, Kondomitis, etc. Others seemed to be of South Slavic origin, such Soimiris, Vlastimiris, and Voicha.[21] The study of names does not indicate that most of these troops came directly from Albania proper, as has been asserted by some authors. Fernand Braudel, for example, in his classic study of the Mediterranean in the 16th century somewhat kaleidoscopically describes the stradioti's history in the following manner:[22]

The story of the Albanians deserves a study in itself. Attracted by the 'sword, the gold trappings, and the honours', they left their mountains chiefly in order to become soldiers. In the sixteenth century they were to be found in Cyprus, in Venice, in Mantua, in Rome, in Naples, and Sicily, and as far abroad as Madrid, where they went to present their projects and their grievances, to ask for barrels of gunpowder or years of pension, arrogant imperious, always ready for a fight. In the end Italy gradually shut its doors to them. They moved on to the Low Countries, England, and France during the Wars of Religion, soldier-adventurers followed everywhere by there wives, children, and priests.

This description and others do not take into account that most of the stradioti did not come from Albania proper, but from the Venetian holdings in southern and central Greece, that is Malvasia (Monemvasia), Modone (Methone), Corone, Napoli di Romagna (Nauplion), the Mani, and Lepanto (Naupaktos). Most of the stradioti who entered Italy in the late 15th and early 16th centuries, together with their families, had been born in the Peloponnesus, their progenitors having immigrated there in the late 14th and early 15th century.

They had settled in southern Greece through the encouragement of the Byzantine Despots of the Morea, Theodore I Palaiologos (1384-1407) and Theodore II Palaiologos (1407-1443). The Albanians served as military colonists in the Peloponnesus in the attempt of the Despotate, an appanage of the moribund Byzantine Empire, to survive the expansion of the Ottoman Empire in the Balkans.[23] In addition, the Venetians began to settle Albanians in Napoli di Romagna (Nauplion) in the Argos region.[24] With the demise of the Byzantine state in 1453 and the dissolution of the Despotate of the Morea through civil war in the 1450's and 1460's, more and more of the Albanian and Greek stradioti found refuge and employment with the Venetians. The Venetians increasingly used them as troops in their conflicts with the Ottomans in Greece and the Levant in the second half of the 15th and throughout the 16th century."


"The third factor in the Venetian preference in employing stradioti was the troops' unorthodox tactics and methods of fighting, which could be utilized in different ways. The stradioti's light cavalry tactics matched those of Ottoman sipahi (feudal) and akinci (irregular) cavalry, which made them an asset to Venice in the garrisons of its Balkan and Levantine possessions, where they were maintained well after the 16th century. In Italy and elsewhere in Western Europe they proved to be useful in scouting reconnaissance, and in raiding forces in disarray or retreat, as seen in the descriptions above. According to the most important study of the Venetian army, "They may have been especially praised for raiding deep into enemy-occupied country where opportunities for loot were freest…"[31] However the style and conduct of the stradioti was criticized, according to some Venetian officials, they were "Anti-Christian, perfidious, born thieves and potential traitors..." and "...so disobedient that they can do us no good."[32]
OUCH! :)
....

More... http://unx1.shsu.edu/~his_ncp/Stradioti.html
You will also notice how Hellenization kicked in and how they spread Greek churches all over. Very interesting.




there is a book as well: Amazon.com: Stradioti: Soldati albanesi in Italia, sec. XV-XIX (Bisanzio): Paolo Petta: Books

akritas
08-21-2008, 10:59 AM
A Greek author made a study of the names of stradioti found in the most extensive documentary collection of materials dealing with the stradioti and found that some 80% of the names were of Albanian origin, while the rest were of Greek origin.[20]The Greek author (Nikos Biris) speaks for the GREEK ARVANITES and not for albanians e.t.c.

http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/4048/scan10046zd1.th.jpg (http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=scan10046zd1.jpg)

http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/9578/scan10047rc5.jpg

kostas68
08-21-2008, 10:59 AM
I read once an article from a Greek magazine refering to those stradioti,which agrees with the most part of what you quoted:That they were mainly Arvanites from Peloponnesus with some Greeks amongst them whereas their commanders were almost exclusively Greeks,descending from the traditional military-noble families of Byzantium.As for the reason the Italians <gradually shut their doors to them> ,the article i read also agrees with what you quoted:
"They may have been especially praised for raiding deep into enemy-occupied country where opportunities for loot were freest…"
However the style and conduct of the stradioti was criticized, according to some Venetian officials, they were "Anti-Christian, perfidious, born thieves and potential traitors..." and "...so disobedient that they can do us no good.
OUCH! :)

During a battle mentioned by that article,(i can't remember where and when) those stradioti,instead to fight against their opponents started to loot a nearby town and the result was the defeat of the Venecian army.

Grace
08-21-2008, 11:08 AM
The Greek author (Nikos Biris) speaks for the GREEK ARVANITES and not for albanians e.t.c.


maybe Pappas is not a Greek nationalist and calls the Arvanites what they were? 100% of real scholars are not influenced by petty Balkan politics. For example no one complains when the Arbereshe are called Albanians, or "Arbereshe of Albanian origin." The name Arberesh means pretty much "Medieval Albanian." Of course you can go into self-identification, language, religion and so on, but the origins are origins.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arb%C3%ABresh%C3%AB

Grace
08-21-2008, 11:14 AM
I read once an article from a Greek magazine refering to those stradioti,which agrees with the most part of what you quoted:That they were mainly Arvanites from Peloponnesus with some Greeks amongst them whereas their commanders were almost exclusively Greeks,descending from the traditional military-noble families of Byzantium.As for the reason the Italians <gradually shut their doors to them> ,the article i read also agrees with what you quoted:


During a battle mentioned by that article,(i can't remember where and when) those stradioti,instead to fight against their opponents started to loot a nearby town and the result was the defeat of the Venecian army.

Was it a town or a carriage with gold? My memory is hazy, but I think it was a rich person's caravan and they kicked @ss....until they saw the loot ;)

Later in Ottoman times, Albanians would only serve under an Albanian leader, and they still bitched and didn't listen. See this: http://books.google.com/books?id=x3b_15WUSSgC&pg=PA40&dq=mohamed+ali+wahhabi+albanian&sig=ACfU3U1PMzz9C33dSwCaWjL6T1jzG6llcA "undisciplined and quarrelsome Albanian troops," "turbulent"

chicagogeorge
09-26-2008, 09:51 PM
http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/2082/greeksepirotesinitalystlw6.jpg

Speto
10-03-2008, 12:00 AM
Now THAT... just redefined the whole identity of today's "Hellenes"!

chicagogeorge
11-25-2008, 10:00 PM
http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/5597/procopiuscf4.jpg