Of course homosexuality existed in Hellas, just as it has existed, and will continue to exist, everywhere and at all times in human history. However, while it did exist, it was never legally sanctioned, thought to be a cultural norm, or engaged in, without risk of serious punishment, including exile and death.

It was Walter Pater (1870's a poet and tutor) he and his band that just out of a weird coincidence were all homosexuals, originally began this fiasco of a theory in Oxford.
We find them introducing a totally new "theory", in which Platonic love has nothing to do with "phyche" but is totally based on phisical attraction.

Later we find a list of wanna-be "historians" of Hellinic sexuality, see: Michel Foucault, John Boswell, John Winkler and David Halperin that were or are all homosexuals striving to make some connection between homos and Hellinism. The reason, of course, is simple. The Hellines have always been viewed as a model of civilisation. So what better way to justify their "sick nature" than by connecting it to the greatness of the Hellinic civilization and by doing so, legitimise same-sex?


While today with the words 'heterosexual' and 'homosexual' (note that both terms including lesbianism were coined after Pater and Co's fiasco of a theory) we simply denote the sexual preference of an individual. The ancient Hellines on the other hand, while never had absolutely no form of definition for 'heterosexuals'.. used the term 'kinaidos'.. in order to describe 'homosexuals' and their preference..

Why this is of some interest/significance.. as I said while the terms today simply define one's sexual preference, the term 'kinaidos' actually shows us what they believed.. as Epicletus has written, 'the beginning of knowledge comes from the analysis of names'... so we have :

'kinaidos' = “he who “kinei thn aido� from :
“kineo�= � to move , to meddle with things sacred� and
“aidos� = “the personification of a conscience, of shame�

So in reality the very word's meaning is 'he who provokes shame'... we see to speak of acceptance when they claimed that homosexuals 'provoke shame' is rediculous, but since assumptions are of no value, let's look into the issue...

Now, one of the basic arguments promoted by these self proclaimed 'historians' of ancient Hellinic sexuality is found in the texts. They use the terms "erastes- eromenos' in their fiasco by giving the translation of 'lover and the 'passive member' of the 'relationship'..

If we were to spend a min. to read what the texts tell us, we'd see that this translation is obviously flawed (I'd say intentionally)...

Plato, Euthydemus 282b
“there is no disgrace, Cleinias, or reprobation in making this a reason for serving and being a slave to either one's lover or any man, and being ready to perform any service that is honorable in one's eagerness to become wise.�

Plato’s Symposium,184b

“it is our rule that, just as in the case of the lovers it was counted no flattery or scandal for them to be willingly and utterly enslaved to their favorites, so there is left one sort of voluntary thraldom which is not scandalous; I mean, in the cause of virtue.
It is our settled tradition that when a man freely devotes his service to another in the belief that his friend will make him better in point of wisdom, it may be, or in any of the other parts of virtue, this willing bondage also is no sort of baseness or flattery. Let us compare the two rules�


Xenophon Symposium 8.8
[8]“Now, I have always felt an admiration for your character, but at the present time I feel a much keener one, for I see that you are in love with a person who is not marked by dainty elegance nor wanton effeminacy, but shows to the world physical strength and stamina, virile courage and sobriety. Setting one's heart on such traits gives an insight into the lover's character.�


Xenophon Symposium
[26] Furthermore, the favourite who realizes that he who lavishes physical charms will be the lover's sovereign will in all likelihood be loose in his general conduct; but the one who feels that he cannot keep his lover faithful without nobility of character will more probably give heed to virtue. [27] But the greatest blessing that befalls the man who yearns to render his favourite a good friend is the necessity of himself making virtue his habitual practice. For one cannot produce goodness in his companion while his own conduct is evil, nor can he himself exhibit shamelessness and incontinence and at the same time render his beloved self-controlled and reverent"

Plato’s Republic 403b
“may not come nigh, nor may lover and beloved who rightly love and are loved have anything to do with it?� “No, by heaven, Socrates,� he said, “it must not come nigh them.� “Thus, then, as it seems, you will lay down the law in the city that we are founding, that the lover may kiss and pass the time with and touch the beloved as a father would a son, for honorable ends, if he persuade him.�

All of these texts give a meaning of obtaining knowledge and virtue, none of them refer to anything sexual .


It has been argued that artifacts have many homosexual scenes depicted. If we are to look at vase art, we also come to interesting conclusions.

In his book, K.J Dover (considered as one of the authorities on ancient Hellinic sexuality. LOL) presents a total of 600 vases.
What is very interesting is the fact that only 20-25 (I am really generous here) can be concidered to depict something sexual. The rest of them 575!!! have nothing to do with the topic in question. Yet he manages to connect them with some actually ridiculous assumptions. example:
In artifact E373 the young man depicted has a tiny penis but a normal scrotum, in E368 his scrotum is enormous,
In another vase he mentions that "the hoop and walking stick carry their own symbolism" (what is the symbolism ?????)
What about this well known artifact that depicts Achilles mending Patroclus' wound... he uses the same 'penis argument' once again..


It is also interesting to note that the exact theory that both Dover and Reinsberg have introduced, is that, during these alleged homosexual acts, actual penetration NEVER did take place!! because the ancient Hellines believed that it was disgracefull.
Simple proof of this are the vase paintings found after the Persian defeat, where we find the Hellines coming up to the bent over Pesian fully aroused. Clearly depicting domination.

So the question that must be answered is: what kind of homo paradise was Hellas when we never did have any kind of penetration?


If we were to look at Aeschynes' Against Timarchus, we find a list of laws..

Of course many conveniently argue that the text and laws refer only to prostitution.. but we find Aeschynes using the law of "grafi etairisios"..

"etairisios" from "etairos"= comrade, companion. we also find the well known "hetaires", what we concider today, thanks to all this mistranslation as whores, but the word clearly gives a different meaning, so they should actually be concidered companions or I think the more apropriate meaning would be something similar to mistress.

If the argument was only about his selling his body (as a whore does) then the law should have used the term "pornh" from "pernimi"= "to sell" and has the meaning of whore, prostitute.

The very FACT that in 1.29 Aeschynes uses the words
"H peporneumenos,physin, H etairikos =
"either prostituted or has became a "comrade/companion" (in short, his *****)

Prove that the laws mentioned apply to both male prostitutes and homosexuals..

Some of the laws mentioned :

a) The teachers of the boys shall open the school-rooms not earlier than sunrise,and they shall close them before sunset. No person who is older than the boys shall be permitted to enter the room while they are there, unless he be a son of the teacher, a brother, or a daughter's husband. If any one enter in violation of this prohibition, he shall be punished with death. The superintendents of the gymnasia shall under no conditions allow any one who has reached the age of manhood to enter the contests of Hermes together with the boys. A gymnasiarch who does permit this and fails to keep such a person out of the gymnasium, shall be liable to the penalties prescribed for the seduction of free-born youth. Every choregus who is appointed by the people shall be more than forty years of age.


b) If any Athenian shall outrage a free-born child, the parent or guardian of the child shall prosecute him before the Thesmothetae, and shall demand a specific penalty. If the court condemn the accused to death, he shall be delivered to the constables and be put to death the same day. If he be con- demned to pay a fine, and be unable to pay the fine immediately, he must pay within eleven days after the trial, and he shall remain in prison until payment is made. The same action shall hold against those who abuse the persons of slaves.

c) If any Athenian shall have prostituted his person, he shall not be permitted to become one of the nine archons, nor to discharge the office of priest, nor to act as an advocate for the state, nor shall he hold any office whatsoever, at home or abroad, whether filled by lot or by election; he shall not be sent as a herald; he shall not take part in debate, nor be present at the public sacrifices; when the citizens are wearing garlands, he shall wear none; and he shall not enter within the limits of the place that has been purified for the assembling of the people. If any man who has been convicted of prostitution act contrary to these prohibitions, he shall be put to death.

Aeschines then summoned the jury to remember their (Athenian) ancestors, who were "stern ... toward all shameful conduct," and considered the purity of their children and fellow citizens to be "precious." He goes on to give an example regarding the way the Lacedaemonians (Spartans) felt about such matters. He justifies his praising the Spartans by quoting an old Athenian saying which teaches that it is "well to imitate virtue even in a foreigner."


There are many more quotes, texts and proof of an intentional manipulation of the words/terms in order to present something that although did exist was never considered a norm..


To be continued....

Beautiful post Orphic... your posts are amazing references and idea and all....

this is a good post i always knew that homosexuals must have been behind trying to push a homo ancient paradise..
im sure the amount of homosexuals was probably the same in society as a percentage.

As mentioned above the terms 'homosexual-ity', 'heteroseuxal-ity' were coined after W. Pater and Co presented their theroy. The story for the term 'lesbian-ism' is not that different.

Connected to the great poet Sappho, this specific 'circle' had managed to give the meaning of homosexuality to 'Sapphic' which as originally used to describe the poetry form/style presented by her and copied by many later Hellinic and Roman poets..
Sappho's poems aren't actually described as erotic (not in the conventional form) but as describing a form of "terror", she never describes the feelings as we usually see with terms of joy, happiness..etc.. but as a torment. She never describes the joyfull feeling seen in others but an emptyness, pain and misery left from emense passion...

Again we find that only after the 1890's is the homosexual theory connected to Sappho and her poems.. Due to a little mix up because of the double-meaning given to the term 'Sapphic'. We find that they came up with the term "lesbian". Since then the island of Lesbos has become a "symbol" for all female homosexuals in every language of the world. All this because of the existance of Sappho.

The major problem for all of these self-proclaimed historians/researchers, is that we only have 1 whole poem by her, saved by Dionysos of Hallicarnasos.. while the rest are mere fragments that hardly allow us to understand the topic, let alone see homosexual emotions..
There are more than enough texts that mention Sappho and provide information of her life. We find Ovid, Athenaios and Suidas among others, speaking openly of her great love with Phaon.
We know for a fact that she was a mother and wife that wrote "epithalamia"= "wedding songs" that spoke, not of lesbian affairs but of the beauty of young girls that were about to become wifes and mothers themselves.

Among these self proclaimed specialists of Hellinic sexuality we fall upon yet another reknown homosexual named Yves Battistini. He wrote a book about Sappho where he quotes a part of a poem written by Anacreondos where we find him translating:

"προς δ'αλλον τινα χασκει" and in latin font "pros d'allon tina haskei"

which when correctly translated gives the meaning of:
"towards someone else she giggles"

but this wanna-be translated it as:
" but the item of her passion is something else, a girl"

Anyone can clearly see the well orchestrated plan promoted by homosexuals for the reason given above..

Many have made similar claims about the Thebeans forming the so-called sacred band that allegedly was formed by some 150 homosexual couples..

Interesting that when we look at the original text of Plato's Symposium and 'Phaedrus' that many have connected to the myth surrounding the composition of the band, we find the traslated texts to mention :

"an army should be made up of lovers and their loves"

When we take a look at the original text you find:

"genesthai e stratopedon eraston te kai paidikon"

So, we find the alleged lover theory but NO eromenos = (the "passive" lover according to the stupid theory they support)
but we find (paidikon) that means (a child, boyish, still in use today in modern Hellinic see "paidi") a very common word in ancient Hellinic texts.

What all these pseudo-scholars avoid to notice is the strategic innovation of Gorgidas. Which was to change the form of Thebean battle tactics. Untill then the young (students)=(strength) were the front line and the older (tutor) = (knowledge) were in the rear.
He mixed them, combining the strength of the young with the knoledge of the old thus, creating an unbeatable army.


If we were to look into the local Thebean myths, we find that the first seen "strying from normality" would be Laios, Laios, known to most because of his son Oidipus.
Laios was the first "kunaidos" according to Hellinic mythology/history.
Laios had abducted and raped Chrysippos, for this, Pelops cursed him to be killed by his own son.
So we find that the first ever recorded "pederast" was cursed and due to this curse, his whole family line was wiped out thanks to his "unatural activity".

We find that Oidipus married his mother (without knowing it) she kills herself and he blinds himself.
The 4 children born by this unwanted marriage are also doomed, the brothers Eteocles and Polynices fall in battle killed by eachother's hand. Antigone is sentensed to death and Ismene asks for the same fate as her sister.

Justice is served for what their sick grandfather (Laios) had done.

When we know of such customs being passed down from generation to generation and plays written pertaining this exact myth. It is hard to believe that the Thebeans or any other Hellinic city would go against these traditions..

To top this off, all we need to do is just read what Philip said, when he saw them lying dead after the battle at Chaeronea.

'Perish miserably they who think that these men did or suffered aught disgraceful!'"
-----------

A similar notion pertaining to the life of the Spartans has also been developed, once again all needed to be done is read what has been left to us in the Hellinic anthology..


Xenophon, Constitution of the Lacedaemonians
2.13

[13] The customs instituted by Lycurgus were opposed to all of these. If someone, being himself an honest man, admired a boy's soul and tried to make of him an ideal friend without reproach and to associate with him, he approved, and believed in the excellence of this kind of training. But if it was clear that the attraction lay in the boy's outward beauty, he banned the connexion as an abomination; and thus he caused lovers to abstain from boys no less than parents abstain from sexual intercourse with their children and brothers and sisters with each other.


Xenophon, Symposium (The Banquet)
8.70

But the men of Lacedaemon, holding that "if a man but lay his hand upon the body and for lustful purpose, he shall thereby forfeit claim to what is beautiful and noble"--do, in the spirit of their creed, contrive to mould and fashion their "beloved ones" to such height of virtue,[71] that should these find themselves drawn up with foreigners, albeit no longer side by side with their own lovers,[72] conscience will make desertion of their present friends impossible. Self-respect constrains them: since the goddess whom the men of Lacedaemon worship is not "Shamelessness," but "Reverence.


Plutarch’s Lives Lycurgus
XVII 4

Their lovers and favorers, too, had a share in the young boy’s honor or disgrace; and there goes a story that one of them was fined by the magistrates, because the lad whom he loved cried out effeminately as he was fighting.



Plutarch’s Lives Lycurgus
XIV. 4

Nor was there any thing shameful in this nakedness of the young women; modesty attended them, and all wantonness was excluded. It taught them simplicity and a care for good health, and gave them some taste of higher feelings, admitted as they thus were to the field of noble action and glory. Hence it was natural for them to think and speak as Gorgo, for example, the wife of Leonidas, is said to have done, when some foreign lady, as it would seem, told her that the women of Lacedæmon were the only women of the world who could rule men; “With good reason,” she said, “for we are the only women who bring forth men.”


Claudius Ailianus 'History' III.12

Spartan 'love' had nothing to do with shamefulness, if there ever was any such a suspicion since they would have brought shame upon Sparta. The result would be the exile of both of the loss of their lives..


Maximus of Tyre "Declamations' 20.e

'Any male Sparta that admires a Lakonian youth, admires him only as we would a very beautiful statue. For bodily pleasures of this type are brought upon them by Hubris and are forbidden..

And if someone were to refute these claims of homosexuality he would be vilified for being anti-gay and what not.
Curious that this myth of homosexuality was started by a bunch of gay pseudohistorians.

Historians with an agenda often rewrite the past. The question of Alexander's homosexuality and of course the references to Ancient Greece's supposed embracing of it are not proven by either empirical or anecdotal research. What we have, as you see above, are mere interpretations by historians who are less interested in the truth than they are in creating a falsehood that they deem beneficial to their self-interests.
Did homosexuality exist? Of course it did as it has and does everywhere. Was Alexander homosexual? There is no proof. No contemporary of his ever indicated that he was and even his biographers of later centuries do not state that he is. Except for Hephaestion, a childhood friend and confidante, there is not even mention of him being particularly close to anyone else. In fact, I consider Alexander a man so driven, so focused on his journey, that at worst he may have been asexual--or very discreet.
Did older Greek men take young male lovers? Some did but it was not a publicized, orgiastic free-for-all that many would have you believe. Even Pausanius' rape (Philip's assassin) was perceived as a gross violation of one's body and the reaction was strong on all sides. Greece was not a culture that tolerated abuse of children, women and even slaves. It happened and sometimes with dire consequences but to be told that the Ancient Greeks were a society of sexual deviants is insulting and historically inaccurate.

Debunking the Myth of Homosexuality in Ancient Greece

A review of Adonis Georgiades' book

You've got to give Adonis Georgiades credit. Here he is, just a shade over 30, and he manages one of Hellas' most prestigious publishing houses, hosts a five-day a week TV show, runs a school which specializes in teaching the ancient language of his ancestors, and somehow still manages to find the time to lecture and write books on the subject nearest and dearest to his heart: the unrivalled and many-faceted glory of ancient Greece: A renaissance man in every sense of the word.

Naturally, a man like this is going to be more than just a little upset over the distortions and outright fabrications circulating in today's multicultural, postmodern world. A world where the unsuspecting and historically challenged are subjected to whatever deconstructed version of reality the purveyors of the kind of putrescent pap think most suits their worldview of "diversity" and "cultural equality." To such dissembling dimwits, Plato, Dr. Ruth, and Chief Seattle are intellectually, ethically, and philosophically equal! As a result, the unique contributions made by the Greeks in the millenniums-old struggle to lift mankind out of the slime of ignorance and superstition are trivialized, ignored, or put into an ersatz context which helps to promote the "isms" in fashion at the moment.

Thus, we discover that the Greeks hated and victimized their women, that they imposed their culture upon the poor, suffering peoples they conquered, that they were heartless slave-owners, that they stole their philosophy from the brown-skinned Egyptians, that they appropriated their alphabet from the Semitic Phoenicians, and that some of their most outstanding personalities -- and even some of their gods and goddesses -- were Black! Those of you who have cracked a respectable number of pre-postmodern books, or are frequent visitors to this site, know that such invidious absurdities are untrue, and can easily be proven to be untrue. The fact remains, however, that such is the blather being hustled these days, and a whole generation of innocent youth is being exposed to this poison: A poison purposely injected into their minds in order to create the stateless, colorless, genderless, faithless, inarticulate, boob-tube-mesmerized, consumer-drones the proponents of this Zyclon-B-of-the-intellect want to inhabit the "Global Village" they are hell-bent on creating.

Such fuzzy-minded huckstering is especially prominent among the professors in the Humanities departments of the colleges and universities of the Western World. The frenzy-to-conform exhibited by these homunculi -- whose shoes don't touch the floor when they are seated in their academic chairs -- is such that they are willing to sell their souls, betray their racial heritage (those who are White), and pollute the quality of their scholarship by playing an active role in the promulgation of this historical mythmaking. And it is here, in these departments, where the most infuriating lie of all -- that which posits the prevalence of homosexuality in ancient Greece -- was born. This myth, engendered in Academia, and "legitimized" by an alien and hostile element in America -- an element that controls the awesome mind-molding power of the media and Hollywood -- could not help but "have legs." And so it has come to pass that even an Al Sharpton -- a man with the intellect of a retarded Neanderthal -- could publicly refer to the ancient Greeks as "a bunch of fairies" in a speech given before an audience of his mentally challenged acolytes. "Mentally challenged" because instead of hissing and booing at such patronizingly obvious demagoguery, they cheered, clapped, whistled, and hooted with bug-eyed delight at hearing Whitey traduced and ridiculed by one of their own.




This is the myth that Adonis Georgiades so successfully and convincingly demolishes in his book Debunking the Myth of Homosexuality in Ancient Greece.

Georgiades manages, in just over 200 easy-to-read and well-documented pages, to cite a multitude of ancient sources which shed the light of truth upon the question of just how homosexuals and homosexuality were regarded in the Hellas of the 9th to the 4th century B.C. His thesis is simple: "Of course homosexuality existed in Greece, just as it has existed, and will continue to exist, everywhere and at all times in human history. However, while it did exist, it was never legally sanctioned, thought to be a cultural norm, or engaged in without risk of serious punishment, including exile and death." A pitiful creature like Barney Frank, for instance, would have -- upon his particular "proclivity" being discovered -- been executed or sent into exile. After which, his living quarters would have been fumigated and ritually purified by a priest. Unless, of course, he had previously "gone public" with his homosexual lifestyle. In that case, though he would have been permitted to live, he would, under Athenian law (grafÃ* etairÃ*sios), not be permitted to
become one of the nine archons, nor to discharge the office of priest, nor to
act as an advocate for the state, nor shall he hold any office whatsoever, at home or abroad, whether filled by lot or by election; he shall not be sent as a herald; he shall not take part in debate, nor be present at the public sacrifices; when the citizens are wearing garlands, he shall wear none; and he shall not enter within the limits of the place that has been purified for the assembling of the people. Any man who has been convicted of defying these prohibitions pertaining to sexual conduct shall be put to death schines. "Contra Timarchus," as cited in Georgiades, p. 69).

We learn as well that "Athens had the strictest laws pertaining to homosexuality of any democracy that has ever existed" (62). In non-democratic Sparta, as well as in democratic Crete and the rest of democratic Hellas, there were similar prohibitions with similar punishments as that meted out in Athens, and Georgiades gives us citations galore to prove his main thesis: "At no time, and in no place, was this practice considered normal behavior, or those engaged in it allowed to go unpunished" (passim). In order to remove any doubt whatsoever, he draws on such ancient luminaries as Aeschylus, Aristophanes, Diodorus Seculus, Euripides, Homer, Lysias, Plato, Plutarch and Xenophon, all of whom have left a written record as to what the prevailing norms were concerning this behavior. He also covers Greek vase painting, Mythology and Lesbianism, while not neglecting to reveal the truth about such much-maligned personalities from Hellas' glorious past as Achilles and Patroclus, Alcibiades and Socrates, Alexander the Great and Hephaestion, and the woman that the later Greeks regarded as "the greatest of the lyric poets," Sappho.



Greek vase painting has been a favorite source for the distorters of Greek culture and civilization. Georgiades points out that, of the tens of thousands of vases unearthed so far (the count for just the province of Attica, where Athens is located, is over 80,000), only 30 or so have an overtly homosexual theme; representing, in other words, just .01% of the total (127). When one compares this small percentage to what we see today on TV, in ads, books, magazines, the cinema, etc., one can just imagine what future generations will think of us. There is more, much more, but the purpose of this review is to stimulate the reader to order the book to see for himself just how Georgiades has managed to shed the light of truth on this important aspect of Greek history.



There is one more thing, however, that must be said. Georgiades has -- in a clear and easy-to-comprehend manner -- delineated the difference between what the ancients meant when they used the words "Erastis" and "Eromenos," and the way these words are translated and used in our time. This alone is worth the price of the book. Briefly, to the ancient Greeks, the term Erastis denoted a man who mentored, in a non-physical way, an Eromenos. The Eromenos was in all cases a beardless youth who looked up to and respected his mentor, and who had been commissioned by the boy's parents to take on the vital chore of preparing him to assume the roles of husband, father, soldier, and active citizen in the affairs of his community. Georgiades delves deeply into this relationship, and explains how and why these terms have come today to be confused with the "dominant" and "passive" partners in an homosexual union.



We can only be grateful that there are still young men around like Adonis Georgiades who want only to see that the truth is told about the country they love. This book is highly recommended, and though it has been published only in Greek to date, we sincerely hope to see an English language edition in the near future.


Adonis Georgiades, Debunking the Myth of Homosexuality in Ancient Greece (OmofilofilÃ*a StÃ*n Archéa Ellátha: O Mýthos Katareëi).

http://www.grecoreport.com/debunking_the_myth_of_homosexuality_in_ancient_gre ece.htm

W.C. Lacey (1968), a brilliant Cambridge classical scholar wrote, in his comprehensive examination of family life of ancient Greece:


"We are sometimes told that the Greeks were fully bisexual, enjoying both homosexual and heterosexual intercourse, and that romantic love in Greece was associated with attachments to boys and not to girls. Whatever the truth of the latter statement, there can be no doubt that, while the Greeks had a deep admiration for the physical beauty of the young male, in Athens the practice of sodomy was strictly circumscribed by law.
Boys still at school were protected against sexual assaults by a law (said to go as far back as Dracon and Solon), and we hear of strict regulations about schools with this in mind; schoolboys always had a paidagogos escorting them; in art the paidagogos is always depicted as carrying a long and heavy stick; what was this for if not to protect their charges?"[62]

ΕΓΚΛΗΜΑΤΑ ΚΑΤΑ ΤΗΣ ΓΕΝΕΤΗΣΙΑΣ ΕΛΕΥΘΕΡΙΑΣ ΣΤΗΝ ΑΡΧΑΙΑ ΕΛΛΑΔΑ
α. ΑΠΟΠΛΑΝΗΣΗ ΠΑΙΔΩΝ - ΑΣΕΛΓΕΙΑ

<<Εαν τις υβριζη εις τινα η παιδα η γυναικα η ανδρα των ελευθερων η των δουλων η παρανομον τι πιοηση εις τουτων τινα γραφεσθω προς
τους θεσμοθετας ο βουλομενος Αθηναιων οις εξεστιν οι δε θεσμοθεται εισαγοντων εις την ηλιαιαν τριακοντα ημερων αφ ης γραφη. Οτου δ
αν καταγνω η Ηλιαια τιματω αυτου παραχρημα οτου αν δοκη αξιος ειναι παθειν η αποτεισαι>>.

(Νομος υβρεως,Δημοσθ.Κατα Μειδιου 47)

Δηλαδη <<Οποιος ασελγησει πανω σε παιδι σε γυναικα η ανδρα εκ των ελευθερων η των δουλων η παρανομησει σχετικα σε βαρος τους να
καταγγελεται για διαπραξη δημοσιου αδικηματος απο καθε Αθηναιο που θελει και εχει το δικαιωμα (να υποβαλλει δημοσιες αγωγες) ενωπιον των
θεσμοθετων αυτοι δε οφειλουν το αργοτερο εντος μηνος να τον εισαγαγουν σε δικη για να δικασθη και να υποστει τις προβλεπομενες κυρωσεις>>.

β.Προαγωγεια
Επι καταδικης για προαγωγεια ελευθερου η δουλου παιδιου η γυναικας επιβαλλοταν η ποινη του θανατου.

-<<Και τους προαγωγους γραφεσθαι κελευει (ο νομος) καν αλωσι θανατω ζημιουσι>>. Αισχιν. Κατα Τιμαρχου
-<<Υμεις Μενωνα μεν τον μυλωθρον απεκτεινατε (=εκτελεσατε) διοτι παιδ ελευθερον εκ Πελληνης εσχεν (=ασελγησε) εν τω μυλωνι...
Ευθυμαχον δε διοτι την ολυνθιαν παιδισκην εστησεν επ οικηματος (=την εγκατεστησε σε οικο ανοχης)>>.
Δειναρχος ,κατα Δημοσθενους ,23

ΕΤΑΙΡΙΣΜΟΣ - *ΚΙΝΑΙΔΙΣΜΟΣ(=ομοφυλοφυλια)
<<Αν τις Αθηναιων εταιρηση μη εξεστω αυτω των εννεα αρχοντων γενεσθαι μηδ ιεροσυνην ιερωσασθαι μηδε συνδικησαι τω δημω μην αρχην αρχετω ουδεμιαν μητε ενδημω μητε υπεροριον μητε κληρωτην μητε χειροτονητην μηδ επικηρυκειαν αποσταλλεσθω μηδε γνωμην λεγετω μηδ εις τα δημοτελη ιερα εισιτω μηδ εν ταις κοιναις στεφανηφοριαις στεφανουσθω μηδ εντος των της αγορας περιρραντηριων πορευεσθω . Εαν δε τις ταυτα ποιη καταγνωσθεντος αυτου εταιρειν θανατω ζημιουσθω>>.
(Αισχινης Κατα Τιμαρχου 52 , 1)

Δηλαδη <<Οποιος Αθηναιος παραδωσει το σωμα του σε αλλον για να ασελγη πανω του απαγορευεται να εκλεγη ως ενας απο τους Εννεα Αρχοντες να ασκηση οποιοδηποτε ιερατικο αξιωμα να διορισθη συνδικος του λαου να καταλαβει οποιοδηποτε δημοσιο αξιωμα η αρχη εσωτερικη η εξωτερικη με κληρωση η εκλογη να σταλη ως κυρηκας να λαβει ποτε το λογο ενωπιον της βουλης η της εκλησσιας του Δημου να εισερχεται στα δημοσια ιερα να συμμετεχη σε δημοσιες εορτες να φορη (εορταστικο) στεφανι στις δημοσιες στεφανοφοριες να εισερχεται στην Αγορα.
Οποιος δε καταδικασμενος για εταιρισμο παραβη τις ανωτερω απαγορευσεις <<δησαντων αυτον>> οι πολιτες αφου τον δεσουν να τον παραδοσουν στους Ενδεκα και <<τεθνατω αυθημερον>> να εκτελειται την ιδια ημερα.
Ο Δημοσθενης επισης αναφερεται στον <<περι της εταιρησεως νομον >> (Κατ Ανδροτιωνος 21),
[εταιρειν= το τους ανδρας πασχειν τα των εταιρων εταιρει μεν ουν και πορνευεται ο πασχητιων]
ενω στον ιδιο λογο του (παρ. 30) μνημονευει τον σχετικο νομο του Σολωνος συμφωνα με τον οποιο ο δραστης εστερειτο το σημαντικοτερο για τον Αθηναιο πολιτη δικαιωμα το δικαιωμα του λογου ενωπιον της βουλης και της εκλησσιας αλλα και αυτο της υποβολης <<γραφων>> και <<εισαγγελιων>> δηλαδη δημοσιων μυνησεων.
<<μητε λεγειν μητε γραφειν εξειναι τοις ηταιρηκοσιν>>
Αλλα και ο Λυσιας (Κατ Αλκιβιαδου Α) μας παρεχει ασφαλεις πληροφοριες περι της σκληροτατης αντιμετωπισεως των κιναιδων στην Αρχαια Αθηνα οχι μονο απο την νομοθεσια της αλλα και απο την τοσο κατα τα αλλα φιλελευθερη κοινωνια της η οποια και απεδοκιμαζε και εστιγματιζε και εχλευαζε την ιδιορυθμια καποιων μελων της. Ο
Αριστοφανης δε αθυροστομος τους παραδιδει σε δεινη χλευη παρουσιαζοντας τους με θηλυπρεπεις ενδυμασιες ακκιζομενους (=κουναμενους) ως εταιρες κ.λ.π. και
αποκαλωντας τους με ασεμνες ονομασιες π.χ. <<Χαονες>> προκαλωντας ατελειωτους γελωτες στο κοινο.

Στους εταιριζομενους <<τους ομοτεχνους πορναις>> (Δημ.Κατ Ανδροτιωνος 58), συνεχιζει ο Δημοσθενης << οι νομοι ουκ εωσι ουδε τα εννομα τους αισχρως βεβιωκοτας νομον θειναι>> (Κατ Ανδροτιωνος 24), δηλαδη <<οι νομοι τους απαγορευουν να γινωνται εισηγητες νομων>>.

ΟΜΟΦΥΛΟΦΙΛΙΑ
α. Της Αθηναικης Πολιτειας
<<Ει τις πεπορνευομενος η εταιρηκως εστι εξειργεσθω ειναι των ρητορων>> (Αισχινης κατα Τιμαρχ. 5,2).
(Απαγορευεται σε οποιον εχει εκδοσει τον εαυτο του σαν πορνη η εχει προαγαγει σε πορνεια κοριτσι η αγορι να ειναι συμβουλος της πολιτειας).
Παρα τα περι αντιθετου λεγομενα και γραφομενα ακομη και διδασκομενα σε πανεπησημιακες σχολες της δυσεως οτι δηθεν οι ελευθεριαζουσες και ομοφυλοφυλικες σχεσεις
ηταν οχι μονο νομικως επιτρεπτες αλλα περιπου θεσμος στην πολιτεια των Αθηναιων τουτο διαψευδεται πανυγηρικως και αμαχητος απο το ιδιο το Αττικο δικαιο .
Εκεινο που εντυπωσιαζει μαλιστα ιδιαιτερως ειναι η σκληροτητα των κυρωσεων που επεβαλλε τουτο σε περιπτωσεις προαγωγειας παιδεραστιας ανδρικης πορνειας και εταιρησεως ποινες που εξικνουνταν απο της απαγορευσεως εισοδου του κυρηχθεντος ως ενοχου στους ιερους χωρους και στην Αγορα αποκλεισμου του απο τις θρησκευτικες τελετες και γενικοτερα την κοινωνικη ζωη της πολεως μεχρι και του πολιτικου του θανατου (μη εξεστω αυτω λεγειν και γραφειν = απαγορευεται σε αυτον να λαβαινη το λογο στις λαικες συνελευσεις και να υποβαλλη δημοσιες καταγγελιες) ακομαδε και της θανατωσεως τους την ιδια μερα της εκδοσεως καταδικαστικης σε βαρος του αποφασεως του Ηλιαστικου δικαστηριου επι πορνεια εαν συλληφθη να παραβιαζει τις απαγορευσεις.
Τα εγκληματα κατα της γενετησιας ελευθεριας ειχαν κριθη μαλιστα ως ιδιαιτερας βαρυτητας γι αυτο και κατατασονταν στην κατηγορια των δημοσιων αδικηματων. Τουτο
προκυπτει αναντιλεκτως απο το γεγονος οτι κατα των διαπρατοντων αυτα καθε πολιτης ειχε δικαιωμα (εμμεσως δε και ηθικη και πολιτικη υποχρεωση) να εγειρη εναντιον τους την <<γραφην εταιρησεως >> συμφωνα με τον ειδικο <<περι φθορας νομον>> δηλαδη δημοσιαν καταγγελιαν γιατι θεωρουσε τα ως ανω αδικηματα ως δημοσια δηλαδη ως προσβαλλοντα αυτη την ιδια την πολιτεια.
Περα απο την σκληροτατη ποινικη μεταχειριση των ιδιορυθμων αυτων ατομων και οι κοινη γνωμη ηταν ιδιαιτερως σκληρη απενταντι τους .Τους παθητικους ομοφυλοφιλους
τους αποκαλουσε χλευαστικως <<κιναιδους>> δηλαδη αυτους που <<κινουν την αιδω>> που προκαλουν ντροπη και αποτροπιασμο . Επισης τους αποκαλουσε ανδρογυναια,γυνανδρους,ημιανδρους,πορνους,ομοτεχνο υς εταιραις ο δε Αριστοφανης οπως προαναφερθηκε που ηταν ιδιαιτερα καυστικος εξαπελυε εναντιον τους προκαλωντας εκρηξεις γελωτος και χλευασμων του λαου στα θεατρα επικλησεις ως χαονες και αρσενικες πορνες .
Ειναι πραγματι εντυπωσιακη αυτη η σταση της Αθηναικης πολιτειας και κοινωνιας απεναντι των ατομων αυτων που εφτανε μεχρι και τον κοινωνικο αποκλεισμο τους θα ελεγε κανεις οτι η ποινη τους ηταν η οιονει capitis deminutio του ρωμαικου δικαιου δηλαδη νομικος αποκεφαλισμος μη αποκλειομενης και της παραπομπης τους στον δημιο οπως ρητωςπροβλεπονταν απο την σχετικη διαταξη.
Η μονη ισως λογικη εξηγηση της σκληροτατης αυτης , μεταχειρισεως των απο την πιο ελευθερη και φιλελευθερη πολιτεια της αρχαιας ελλαδος μπορει να ειναι οτι η ιδιορρυθμια αυτη εκλαμβανονταν ως ΜΙΑΣΜΑ ως βδελυρη πραξη που τους καθιστουσε οιονει εναγεις , που <<εμιαινον>> την πολη και θα προκαλουσαν τη θεικη οργη εναντιον της. Τουτο τεκμαιρεται εμμεσως απο το οτι επιβαλλονταν σ αυτους μετα απο σχετικη καταδικη τους για εταιρισμο η ιδια ποινη με τους ανθρωποκτονους. Δηλαδη να απεχουν απο καθε ιερο χωρο και θρησκευτικες τελετες επι πλεον της απαγορευσεως ασκησεως πολιτικων δικαιωματων. Χαρακτηριστικη και διαφωτιστικη ειναι η πληροφορια που μας δινει ο Δημοσθενης (Κατ Ανδροτιωνος) και αφορα βεβαιως τους <<ανδροφονους>> στους οποιους απαγορευονταν και η εισοδος <<εντος των περριραντηριων της αγορας>> δηλαδη του <<καθαγιασμενου δια ιερων ραντισματων χωρου της αγορας>> ως μη εχοντων <<καθαρας τας χειρας>>. Εξ αυτου σφοδρως μπορει να πιθανολογηθη οτι επιβαλλονταν η αυτη απαγορευση και στους εταιριζομενους ως μη εχοντας <<καθαρον>> το σωμα τους.

β. Η Σπαρτιατικη νομοθεσια κατα της παιδεραστιας
Παρα τα αντιθετως θρυλουμενα και σχεδον θεωρουμενα ως <<κοινους τοπους>> σχετικα με τους <<δωρικους ερωτες>> ενας πολυ καλος γνωστης της Σπαρτατικης νομοθεσιας και ζωης ο εντιμος Ξενοφων ο Αθηναιος στο εργο του <<Λακεδαιμονιων πολιτεια>> ΙΙ,13 αναφερει νομο της που τον αποδιδει μαλιστα στον λυκουργο συμφωνα με τον οποιο η παιδεραστια καταδικαζονταν μετα βδελυγμιας = <<Εις τις παιδος σωματος ορεγομενος φανειη αισχιστον τουτο θεις εποιησεν (ο Λυκουργος) εν Λακεδαιμονι μηδεν ηττον εραστας παιδικων απεχθεσαι>>.
[Ο θεσας τον νομον αυτον λυκουργος εχαρακτηρισε ως αισχιστο εαν τυχον καποιος φανερως ορεγοταν το σωμα καποιου παιδιου ορισε δε να απεχουν απο τα παιδικα σωματα οι εραστες] .
Ο Πλουταρχος επισης (Λακεδ. επιτηδ. 7,237 c) μας πληροφορει οτι οποιος επιχειρουσε να ασελγηση σε βαρος αλλου εστερειτο δια βιου τα πολιτικα του δικαιωματα=
<<Εραν των την ψυχην σπουδαιων παιδων εφειτο το δε πλησιαζειν αισχρον νενομιστο ως του σωματος ερωντας αλλ ου της ψυχης ο δε εγκληθεις ως επ αισχυνη πλησιαζων ατιμος δια βιου ην>>.
Δηλαδη = Ο (Λυκουργειος) νομος επετρεπε την εκδηλωση θαυμασμου προς τα ψυχικα χαρισματα των σπουδαιων νεων την επιθυμια ομως προς ερωτικη με αυτος συναφεια εκρινε ως αισχρο ως εκδηλωση σαρκικου ερωτος και οχι ψυχικου. Οποιος δε εγκαλειτο (συμφωνα με τον νομο) για κατι τετοιο καταδικαζοταν σε ατιμια (στερηση των πολιτικων του δικαιωματων του) δια βιου.

γ. Της Μεγαλης Ελλαδος (Κ. Ιταλιας)
Ακομα και στην Μεγαλη Ελλαδα τον Ελληνισμο της Κατω ιταλιας και Σικελιας οπου περισσοτερο ελευθεριαζοντα ηθη επικρατουσαν η παιδεραστια ετιμωρειτο με την εσχατη των ποινων και μαλιστα με τον απαγχονισμο του δραστη. Συγκεκριμενα ο Μαξιμος ο Τυριος (20,9α) μας πληροφορει=

<<Εν Λοκροις τοις Ιταλιωταις εφηβος ην καλος και νομος καλος και ερασται πονηροι εραν μεν ηναγκαζοντο υπο του καλλους ειργοντο ομως υπο του νομου κακως εραν οιστρουμενοι δε υπο του παθους προς την υβριν τον μεν εφηβον ουκ επεισαν ηξαν δε οι δυστυχεις επι βροχον παντες>>.
[Στους ιταλιωτες Λοκρους (η Επιζεφυριους) υπηρχαν ενας ωραιος εφηβος και πονηροι εραστες αλλα και νομος καλος (καταλληλος). Και οι με εραστες διακατεχονταν απο ισχυρη παρορμηση προς αυτον λογω της ομορφιας του , εμποδιζονταν ομως απο τον νομο να εκδηλωνουν το σαρκικο τους ερωτα (ομως τελικως) ασυγκρατητοι απο το ισχυρο παθος τους να ασελγησουν επ αυτου επιχειρησαν να παρασυρουν τον εφηβο (καταγγελθεντες ομως) οδηγηθηκαν οι δυστυχοι ολοι τους στην αγχονη.]

Και ενω στην Ελληνικη νομοθεσια προβλεπετε η εσχατη των ποινων για το αποτροπαιο οντως εγκλημα της παιδεραστιας στην Ρωμαικη απουσιαζει εντελως η καταγραφη του εστω ως αδικηματος (Α' βασιλειων ιδ,ιε 12 ,κβ 46, β βασιλειων κγ 7)

*Κιναδος δηλ. ο κινων την αιδω
Liddel-Scott τομος ΙΙ σελιδα 719
Κιναιδεια= η παρα φυσιν ασελγεια, Αισχινης 18,29 Δημητριος Φαληρευς 97.
Κιναιδευομαι= ειμαι κιναιδος
Κιναιδος= ο καταπυγων , ο καθολα αισχρος , κακοηθης ανθρωπος
-

Sexual Crimes in ANCIENT GREECE
α. Child Abuse & Sex Offenses

<<Εαν τις υβριζη εις τινα η παιδα η γυναικα η ανδρα των ελευθερων η των δουλων η παρανομον τι πιοηση εις τουτων τινα γραφεσθω προς
τους θεσμοθετας ο βουλομενος Αθηναιων οις εξεστιν οι δε θεσμοθεται εισαγοντων εις την ηλιαιαν τριακοντα ημερων αφ ης γραφη. Οτου δ
αν καταγνω η Ηλιαια τιματω αυτου παραχρημα οτου αν δοκη αξιος ειναι παθειν η αποτεισαι>>.

(Νομος υβρεως,Δημοσθ.Κατα Μειδιου 47)

Meaning <<Whoever abuses any child or woman be they free or slaves or breaks the law regarding to them should be accused of commiting a public offense from
any Athenian that wants and has the right (to sue) before the lawmakers and they must to the latest in a month to bring him to trial to be judjed and suffer the consequenses of the law >>.

β.Pimping
To those condemned for pimping freeman or slave ,child or woman the penalty of death is given.

-<<Και τους προαγωγους γραφεσθαι κελευει (the law) καν αλωσι θανατω ζημιουσι>>. Αισχιν. Κατα Τιμαρχου
-<<Υμεις Μενωνα μεν τον μυλωθρον απεκτεινατε (=execute) διοτι παιδ ελευθερον εκ Πελληνης εσχεν (=abused,raped) εν τω μυλωνι...
Ευθυμαχον δε διοτι την ολυνθιαν παιδισκην εστησεν επ οικηματος (=put up in a brothel)>>.
Δειναρχος ,κατα Δημοσθενους ,23

WHORING & *ΚΙΝΑΙΔΙΣΜΟΣ(=homosexuality)
<<Αν τις Αθηναιων εταιρηση μη εξεστω αυτω των εννεα αρχοντων γενεσθαι μηδ ιεροσυνην ιερωσασθαι μηδε συνδικησαι τω δημω μην αρχην αρχετω ουδεμιαν μητε ενδημω μητε υπεροριον μητε κληρωτην μητε χειροτονητην μηδ επικηρυκειαν αποσταλλεσθω μηδε γνωμην λεγετω μηδ εις τα δημοτελη ιερα εισιτω μηδ εν ταις κοιναις στεφανηφοριαις στεφανουσθω μηδ εντος των της αγορας περιρραντηριων πορευεσθω . Εαν δε τις ταυτα ποιη καταγνωσθεντος αυτου εταιρειν θανατω ζημιουσθω>>.
(Αισχινης Κατα Τιμαρχου 52 , 1)

Meaning <<Whoever Athenian gives his body to be had(sexually) by another man is forbidden to be elected as one of the nine lords and be a priest or lawyer or any place in public office or any other position internal or external by voting or chance and never to be sent as messenger never to speak before the parliament or the forum (Agora) or to enter in public temples or take part in public festivals or wear the festive ring of Demeter and enter the market.
Whoever condemned thus breaks the following prohibitions must be tied <<δησαντων αυτον>> and once the civilians have tied him to be delivered to the eleven to be slain before the day has passed <<τεθνατω αυθημερον>> .
Ο Δημοσθενης reports the <<περι της εταιρησεως νομον >> (Κατ Ανδροτιωνος 21),
[εταιρειν= το τους ανδρας πασχειν τα των εταιρων εταιρει μεν ουν και πορνευεται ο πασχητιων]
ενω στον ιδιο λογο του (παρ. 30) μνημονευει τον σχετικο νομο του Σολωνος συμφωνα με τον οποιο ο δραστης εστερειτο το σημαντικοτερο για τον Αθηναιο πολιτη δικαιωμα το δικαιωμα του λογου ενωπιον της βουλης και της εκλησσιας αλλα και αυτο της υποβολης <<γραφων>> και <<εισαγγελιων>> δηλαδη δημοσιων μυνησεων.
<<μητε λεγειν μητε γραφειν εξειναι τοις ηταιρηκοσιν>>
And Λυσιας (Κατ Αλκιβιαδου Α) gives us safe information about the cruel treatment of homosexuals (κιναιδων) in Ancient Athens not only by legislation but by its "liberal" society that mocked and stigmatized this practice . Ο
Αριστοφανης δε αθυροστομος τους παραδιδει σε δεινη χλευη παρουσιαζοντας τους με θηλυπρεπεις ενδυμασιες ακκιζομενους (=κουναμενους) ως εταιρες κ.λ.π. και
αποκαλωντας τους με ασεμνες ονομασιες π.χ. <<Χαονες>> προκαλωντας ατελειωτους γελωτες στο κοινο.

Στους εταιριζομενους <<τους ομοτεχνους πορναις>> (Δημ.Κατ Ανδροτιωνος 58), συνεχιζει ο Δημοσθενης << οι νομοι ουκ εωσι ουδε τα εννομα τους αισχρως βεβιωκοτας νομον θειναι>> (Κατ Ανδροτιωνος 24), meaning <<the law forbids them to propose laws>>.

Homosexuality
α. Of the Athenian State
<<Ει τις πεπορνευομενος η εταιρηκως εστι εξειργεσθω ειναι των ρητορων>> (Αισχινης κατα Τιμαρχ. 5,2).
( It is forbidden to whoever has given himself as prostitute or a girl or boy to be a council of the state ).
Despite things told and written even in certain universities that homosexuality & pedophilia were not only sanctioned but a normal practice is PROVEN FALSE BY THE ATTIC LAWS . What impresses especially is the cruelty of the penalties to the offenders from total loss of civil rights and death (μη εξεστω αυτω λεγειν και γραφειν = απαγορευεται σε αυτον να λαβαινη το λογο στις λαικες συνελευσεις και να υποβαλλη δημοσιες καταγγελιες) the same day the verdict was pronounced by the Ηλιαστικο δικαστηριο .
Sex crimes were of the heinest type and belonged to the category of public offenses . This derives from the fact that every citizen had the right ( a moral and political obligation in Ancient Greece) to bring against them <<γραφην εταιρησεως >> according to the special <<περι φθορας νομον>> meaning a public suit because the above offenses were public as they attackes against the state itself ( All of Athens).
Beyond the harsh treatment against sex offenders the public opinion was especially hard against them . Homosexuals were called χλευαστικως <<κιναιδους>> meaning those that move shame & aversion <<κινουν την αιδω>> and bring about the punishment of NEMESIS. They were also called ανδρογυναια,γυνανδρους,ημιανδρους,πορνους,ομοτεχνο υς εταιραις ο δε Αριστοφανης οπως προαναφερθηκε που ηταν ιδιαιτερα καυστικος εξαπελυε εναντιον τους προκαλωντας εκρηξεις γελωτος και χλευασμων του λαου στα θεατρα επικλησεις ως χαονες και αρσενικες πορνες .
Ειναι πραγματι εντυπωσιακη αυτη η σταση της Αθηναικης πολιτειας και κοινωνιας απεναντι των ατομων αυτων που εφτανε μεχρι και τον κοινωνικο αποκλεισμο τους θα ελεγε κανεις οτι η ποινη τους ηταν η οιονει capitis deminutio του ρωμαικου δικαιου δηλαδη νομικος αποκεφαλισμος μη αποκλειομενης και της παραπομπης τους στον δημιο οπως ρητωςπροβλεπονταν απο την σχετικη διαταξη.
The only logical explanation for this harsh treatment from the most free and liberal state of ancient greece is the regard of such actions as ABOMINATION ΜΙΑΣΜΑ as a disgusting act that made them οιονει εναγεις , that <<εμιαινον>> polluted the city thus and divine wrath would fall on everyone . This is also proven from the fact that they had the same treatment as murderers . To remain out of any public event or sacred place and lose all civil rights. . Χαρακτηριστικη και διαφωτιστικη ειναι η πληροφορια που μας δινει ο Δημοσθενης (Κατ Ανδροτιωνος) και αφορα βεβαιως τους <<ανδροφονους>> στους οποιους απαγορευονταν και η εισοδος <<εντος των περριραντηριων της αγορας>> δηλαδη του <<καθαγιασμενου δια ιερων ραντισματων χωρου της αγορας>> ως μη εχοντων <<καθαρας τας χειρας>>. Εξ αυτου σφοδρως μπορει να πιθανολογηθη οτι επιβαλλονταν η αυτη απαγορευση και στους εταιριζομενους ως μη εχοντας <<καθαρον>> το σωμα τους.

β. The Spartan Laws Against child Abuse
Against the commonplace mythicaly regarded as commonplace like <<δωρικους ερωτες>> an excellent source of Spartan Legislation and life , the honest Ξενοφων ο Αθηναιος in his work <<Λακεδαιμονιων πολιτεια>> ΙΙ,13 reports the law attributed to Lycurgus according to which child abuse is condemned as an ABOMINATION = <<Εις τις παιδος σωματος ορεγομενος φανειη αισχιστον τουτο θεις εποιησεν (ο Λυκουργος) εν Λακεδαιμονι μηδεν ηττον εραστας παιδικων απεχθεσαι>>.
[The lawmaker Λυκουργος charakterized as most horrid if someone desired the body of a child and set that lovers should abstain from this (lovers of the same sex in ancient greece are Spiritual Brethren not sexual partners, remember this & please learn Ancient Greek dont read "translations" in other languages Ancient Greek cannot be translated)] .
Ο Πλουταρχος also (Λακεδ. επιτηδ. 7,237 c) informs us that whoever tried to abuse someone was striped of his civil rights for life =
<<Εραν των την ψυχην σπουδαιων παιδων εφειτο το δε πλησιαζειν αισχρον νενομιστο ως του σωματος ερωντας αλλ ου της ψυχης ο δε εγκληθεις ως επ αισχυνη πλησιαζων ατιμος δια βιου ην>>.
Meaning = The (Λυκουργειος) law allowed admiration towards the mental gifts of the youths but any physical desire was an abomination that declared carnal and not spiritual love . Whoever by law was condemned thus was dishonoured (striped of his civil rights) for life .

γ. Of Magna Grecia (Lower Italy)
Even in Magna Grecia where customs and morals where supposedly more lax CHILD ABUSE WAS PUNISHED WITH THE MAXIMUM PENALTY MEANING DEATH THAT TOOK THE FORM OF THE HANGING OF THE OFFENDER. Particularly ο Μαξιμος ο Τυριος (20,9α) informs us=

<<Εν Λοκροις τοις Ιταλιωταις εφηβος ην καλος και νομος καλος και ερασται πονηροι εραν μεν ηναγκαζοντο υπο του καλλους ειργοντο ομως υπο του νομου κακως εραν οιστρουμενοι δε υπο του παθους προς την υβριν τον μεν εφηβον ουκ επεισαν ηξαν δε οι δυστυχεις επι βροχον παντες>>.
[To those greeks that reside in Italy Λοκρους (η Επιζεφυριους) there were a handsome youth and cunning lovers but also a proper law . And the lovers where possesed by strong desire because of his physical beauty but were stopped by the law to manifest the carnal part of love but in the end by their strong passion to abuse him tried to lure him but were lead all of them to the gallows.]

And while in Greek Legislation the maximum penalty is given for the heinous crime of child abuse in the Roman it is absent as a crime
(Α' βασιλειων ιδ,ιε 12 ,κβ 46, β βασιλειων κγ 7)

*Κιναδος δηλ. ο κινων την αιδω
Liddel-Scott τομος ΙΙ σελιδα 719
Κιναιδεια,homosexuality= η παρα φυσιν ασελγεια(animal lust,abuse), Αισχινης 18,29 Δημητριος Φαληρευς 97.
Κιναιδευομαι= ειμαι κιναιδος
Κιναιδος,homosexual= ο καταπυγων(degenerate,One who has annal sex) , ο καθολα αισχρος (all shamefull,dishonourable), κακοηθης ανθρωπος (immoral person)
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There are many other reports and events that prove that child abuse & homosexuality in Ancient Greece was despised. Television , Cinema create misconceptions
for marketing reasons and have created unintentionaly a false image in this and other subjects so please dont believe them. Ιf homosexuals have inferiority complex they should solve it without lies about the Ancient Greek Civilization .

Excellent post! :clapping: :worshippy :read:

I think most people here are looking at Athens. Athens had more laws then any other state on earth. Many laws were broken daily, look at who perikles himself took for a wife. What we have to remember is something obvious. Gay relations being seen as evil is a christian idea, not a pagan one. Greeks felt that if they had sex with another man it was not a sin. Like how countries who ban gambling have huge underground dens, it is like ancient Athens. If you did it, it meant nothing, just don't get caught.

As for other races - the spartans openly encouraged homosexuality in the ranks to the point that when it became their turn to get married - their bride would be dressed in a male slaves' clothes, have a shaved head like a male slave and be left in a barn for their first sexual encounter. This tactic was used inorder not to scare the spartan who was so used to men by that point and break him in slowly. Homosexuality was far more accepted then , then now. I do not see it as negative, just then the gays could be more open than now. It shouldn't hurt a Greek if someone says the Greeks embraced homosexuality - so what? So did the Romans.

I think most people here are looking at Athens. Athens had more laws then any other state on earth. Many laws were broken daily, look at who perikles himself took for a wife. What we have to remember is something obvious. Gay relations being seen as evil is a christian idea, not a pagan one. Greeks felt that if they had sex with another man it was not a sin. Like how countries who ban gambling have huge underground dens, it is like ancient Athens. If you did it, it meant nothing, just don't get caught.

Hi Reaper.

True laws are being broken daily but the existance of a law that forbids something obviously indicates the non-acceptance. The very notion of performing whatever has been outlawed "underground" in the fear of being caught red-handed as in your example of gambling, actually indicates this notion.

Anyway, the first part of your post and your example of 'underground' gambling, actually contradicts to your statement below of homosexuality being embraced. Exactly how do you embrase something that is 'outlawed' by laws against it and you resort to performing it 'underground' in fear of punishment that could even be death ??

As for Perkles, exactly what law did he brake. There is no record of any law against marriage with non-Atheneans. Note that Aspasia was Hellinic, Ionian to be exact. The law that Perikles himself put into power, was about full citizenship being given only to those, who's both parents were Athenians. So you could actually marry a non-Athenian or non-Hellinic for that matter. The only consequence would be that your children would not be deemed as Athenian citizens nor be able to enjoy the benefits of full citizenship.



As for other races - the spartans openly encouraged homosexuality in the ranks to the point that when it became their turn to get married - their bride would be dressed in a male slaves' clothes, have a shaved head like a male slave and be left in a barn for their first sexual encounter. This tactic was used inorder not to scare the spartan who was so used to men by that point and break him in slowly. Homosexuality was far more accepted then , then now. I do not see it as negative, just then the gays could be more open than now. It shouldn't hurt a Greek if someone says the Greeks embraced homosexuality - so what? So did the Romans.

I think you didn't go through the quotes posted otherwise you would have seen that your suggestion is wrong.

A simple look into the texts, since they are the only accurate source and not what some biased pseudo-historians trying to promote their own sexual preference, present. We find that :

Crete:

Again, in Plato's Laws, in a scene laid in Crete, and on a walk from Cnosus to the grotto of Zeus on Mount Ida on a long midsummer's day, the conversation related here between three old men took place.
Of the three, one is an Athenian (Stranger), one (Clinias) a Cretan, and one (Megillus) a Spartan. The protagonist is the Athenian (Stanger), and nearly all the talking is done by him. ...

"The choice of their nationality, however, is significant, since the main body of the laws framed for the Model City [in their dialogue] is derived from the codes actually in force in Athens, Sparta, and Crete" (p. viii in the introduction. Emphasis added).

The three elderly men are discussing the ways that which is "honorable and shameful" shall be established. And [the ways] those who are "of depraved character, whom we describe as 'self-inferior,'... shall be hemmed in by three kinds of force and compelled to refrain from law-breaking."

Clinias: "What kinds?"

Athenian Stranger:
"That of godly fear, and that of love of honor, and that which is desirous of fair forms of soul, not of fair bodies. The things I now mention are, perhaps, like the visionary ideals in a story; yet in fair truth, if only they were realized, they would prove a great blessing in every State. Possibly, should God so grant, we might forcibly effect one of two things in this matter of sex-relations, -- either that no one should venture to touch any of the noble and freeborn save his own wedded wife, nor sow any unholy and bastard seed in fornication, nor any unnatural and barren seed in sodomy, -- or else we should entirely abolish love for males, and in regard to that for women, if we enact a law that any man who has intercourse with any women save those who have been brought to his house under the sanction of Heaven and holy marriage, whether purchased or otherwise acquired, if detected in such intercourse by any man or woman, shall be disqualified from any civic commendation, as being really an alien, -- probably such a law would be approved as right. So let this law -- Whether we ought to call it one law or two -- be laid down concerning sexual commerce and love affairs in general, as regards right and wrong conduct in our mutual intercourse due to these desires."

Megillus: "For my own part, Stranger, I should warmly welcome this law"
(VIII. 841 c - e).

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Sparta:

Plutarch wrote:
Affectionate regard for boys of good character was permissible, but embracing them was held to be disgraceful, on the ground that the affection was for the body and not for the mind. Any man against whom complaint was made of any disgraceful embracing was deprived of all civic rights for life. (Ancient Customs of the Spartans, 7. 237 - c.)

More such quotes already provided in previous posts..

Macedonia:

About Alexander the Great, Plutarch wrote:
When ... the governor of the coast-lands of Asia Minor wrote to Alexander that there was in Ionia a youth, the like of whom for bloom and beauty did not exist, and inquired in his letter whether he should send the boy on to him, Alexander wrote bitterly in reply, "Vilest of men, what deed of this sort have you ever been privy to in my past that now you would flatter me with the offer of such pleasures?"
(On The Fortune of Alexander, 333 a - b.)

Thebes:

Here in Thebes we find the first seen "strying from normality" is Laios. Laios, known to most because of his son Oidipus. Laios was the first "kunaidos" according to Hellinic mythology/history.
Laios had abducted and raped Chrysippos, for this, Pelops cursed him to be killed by his own son.
So we find that the first ever recorded "pederast" was cursed and due to this curse, his whole family line was wiped out thanks to his "unatural activity".

We find that Oidipus married his mother (without knowing it) she kills herself and he blinds himself never to be heard of again.
The 4 children born by this unwanted marriage are also doomed, the brothers Eteocles and Polynices fall in battle killed by eachother's hand. Antigone is sentensed to death and Ismene asks for the same fate as her sister.

Justice is served for what their sick grandfather (Laios) had done.

When we know of such customs being passed down from generation to generation and plays written pertaining this exact myth. It is hard to believe that they would go against these traditions..
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So its actually quite clear that other cities in Hellas were equally against homo or pederastic (with its current meaning) activities.


What yo