It was a time when they were brothers.

[helios]

Something more than 100 years ago, the Albanian poet Naim Frasheri, a sage person, wrote a short poem in Katharevousa about Albanians and Greeks, considering them BROTHERS who speak different languages.
That was before the arising of absurd chauvinistic theories like Voreo-Epirus one.
He consideres Greeks and Albanians brothers with different religions.

Naim Frasheri.
"Σε τούτη την εποχή, σε τούτο τον αιώνα,
θέλετε τη φιλία μας, θέλετε την αγάπη;
Εμείς είμαστε Αλβανοί κι σείς Έλληνες είστε,
σεις την Ελλάδα έχετε κι εμείς την Αλβανία.
Σεις έχετε τη γλώσσα σας κι εμείς την εδική μας.
Σε τέτοια βάση δύναται να στεριωθεί η φιλία.
Μη βάζετε, αδέλφια, αυτί στα λόγια των εχθρών μας,
που προσπαθούνε πάντοτε να κάμουν τη θρησκεία
μέσο διχόνοιας μισαρής, μέσο ραδιοργίας,
όργανο του φανατισμού και της καταστροφής μας.
Θέλουν να μας χωρίσουνε για τα συμφέροντά τους".

"In this period, in this century
do you want our friendship, do you want love?
We are Albanians, you are Greeks,
you have Greece, we have Albania,
you have your language, we have our language.
In this way friendship will be cement.
Brothers, do not listen our enemies
who try to make religion
vehicle for hate
means of fanatism and our disaster.
They want to seperate us in theirs interest."


PS I have not made a search yet for the authenticity
of the poem, but if it is true, some people must take the right message.

[Grace]

But he was a "muslim" ! This vorio epir is something their right wing does to seem relevant. In the end, they do not dare to start a war with 7 million Albanians over it. Bulgaria, Turkey and even small Macedonia are dying for Greece to lose a war...and half of their land. If they want the "greek" people in Albanian they can have them, most are old anyway

[Tsontos]

some people must take the right message.

That chauvinistic Greeks and chauvinistic Greeks alone are responsible for any bad realtions between Greece and Albania? Yeah message well taken.

[Draco]

in Katharevousa
It's not Katharevousa.
In the end, they do not dare to start a war with 7 million Albanians over it. Bulgaria, Turkey and even small Macedonia are dying for Greece to lose a war...and half of their land.
LOL This is the standard wet dream of all ultra-nationalists in those countries. :rolleyes: Problems with the plan are that Bulgaria has a 10% Turk problem, FYROM has a 30% Albanian problem,Turkey has a 20% Kurd problem (more intense now than ever with the establishment of Kurdistan in Iraq) and Serbia is waiting for an opportunity to come down like a ton of bricks on Kosovo.
7 million Albanians
:heh: :D
If they want the "greek" people in Albanian they can have them, most are old anyway
The same is true, and even more so, in relation to the Chams and Arvanites. :p

[Tsontos]

I was about to say Draco, its about as far as katharevousa as you can get:huh: Wherever you got that from, helios, maybe this is a translation of the original into demotic?

[Bardas]

But he was a "muslim" ! This vorio epir is something their right wing does to seem relevant. In the end, they do not dare to start a war with 7 million Albanians over it. Bulgaria, Turkey and even small Macedonia are dying for Greece to lose a war...and half of their land. If they want the "greek" people in Albanian they can have them, most are old anyway

7 million? lol. Isn't Albania's population only 3.5 million.

As for the Greek "right-wing" add "far" in front of it, and they remain a fringe group. LAOS barely scraped through the parliamentary threshold of 3%. So rest assured you have nothing to worry about if that is indeed your concern.
But Grace your problem is that your mind frame is like that of the skops, somewhere in the 1940's. Greece does not have any territorial claims on southern Albania and 200,000 Vorio Epirotoi have now made their homes in Greece.

And since you're turning this into a pissing contest, if there was going to be a war between Greece and Albania be sure we would win. This is not medieval but modern warfare. The Albanian armed forces remain a bayonet army. But since Greece's military doctrine is about fending off a Turkish invasion, it means we have the most modern armed forces in the region. Indeed our airforce and navy even have an edge over that of Turkey's; yourselves have a navy and airforce in name only. So don't be so confident that we will lose. You Albanians seems to have some kind of illusion of military invincibility without having done anything to prove it. The KLA was on the verge of defeat in 1999 until Nato intervened. And as for the UCK in northern fyrom they were fighting against a AoM that was just a bit more better armed.

[Grace]

It's not Katharevousa.

LOL This is the standard wet dream of all ultra-nationalists in those countries. :rolleyes: Problems with the plan are that Bulgaria has a 10% Turk problem, FYROM has a 30% Albanian problem,Turkey has a 20% Kurd problem (more intense now than ever with the establishment of Kurdistan in Iraq) and Serbia is waiting for an opportunity to come down like a ton of bricks on Kosovo.

:heh: :D

The same is true, and even more so, in relation to the Chams and Arvanites. :p


You forgot one crucial thing: while all have issues among each other, they all have issues with Greece. If a (regional) war breaks out, why would Bulgaria go against Turkey or FYROM when they can cooperate and split parts of the loser, Greece? Only Greece has doubled in size by taking land from others. You say it's fair, others do not.

The Albanians in FYROM can go either way with one phone call from Tirana or Prishtina. Serbia, is done. As soon as they start to bark again-and they will, their church is notorious for that--Kosova will double it's weapons and so will Croatia and the Bosniaks (the Muslims who know what happened last time.)

By then, they will be three professional armies and enough to keep Serbia in check, or split her forces. They got a few bloody noses and the next time, they might lose Vojvodina and Sanxhak as well. Without a partner, Serbs are losers. They only brag and dream big and have mortal enemies all around them.

The Albanians will not have F-35s, but they will have plenty of mortars and shoulder missiles, a cheap way to render any tank and cheap planes useless. Gun for gun, in a fair fight, I'll bet against Serbs anytime. They had the Yugoslav army and still got their asses kicked by Slovenia and Croatia.

Most importantly, Greece has all this land because the powers let them keep the occupied parts. No one, short of Albania starting Nazi-like ovens, will allow Greece to take 50% of the already small Albania, even if you succeed in temporarily occupying it. Today's Greece has lost a lot of the good will created by the people who used to live there 2500 years ago.

Turkey has problems, but then, they are 60 million strong and the Kurds are not going anywhere. Even if they rise, they will still be there and Turks can fight in both fronts. They are very nationalistic and reservists /local people can go there temporarily as well.

if the powers get involved, all bets are off, but I'd say that Europe and US will be in one side, and only Russia might join you /Serbia. China is too far and wants to control her part of the world, not Mediterranean. A war might actually give us an excuse to pull a Greece and expel all the "Greek collaborators." I know you would have no problems with that ;)

In short, Greece has a lot to lose and not much to gain.

[Grace]

>> So don't be so confident that we will lose. You Albanians seems to have some kind of illusion of military invincibility without having done anything to prove it.

actually we don't and I agree on the army. However, my point was to show that a rational Greece will not attack Albania as hell will break lose.

Our army is improving though thanks to US /NATO, and the idea is not to withstand US or Russia OR invade other countries; it is to mount a decent defensive and wait till the partners come in. Or, maintain a guerrilla war for ages. Invading and holding countries requires US or China powers.

There is no way we would be able to have all your planes and ships, plus it makes no sense even if we could. We're a small country, and we got screwed about 100yrs ago, but we got used to it and can prosper there. It's better to have a decent enough army to give a sting to anyone but live in peace.

Albania for all our problems is actually making progress. You will see beautiful 3 story villas in every small town and the GDP is probably under-reported by some 50%. As more people get used to paying taxes, and corruption goes down, things will even get better and in 2-5 years it will be a great place for investments. A road to link to Kosova /Fyrom /Serbia will bring more tourists and trade and ... we're only 3.5 million in Albania. The 200+ mile coast is barely touched.

KLA was on the run, but then, it was not a fight, it was massacre where rape and total warfare were used. Tanks and helicopters vs a Ak-47 held by amatuers is not a fair fight. With a small modern army and weapons, Serbs will be kept at bay.

[Foti66]

Grace, you really are out there. You have some very funny thoughts though. :heh: Thanks for amusing the members.

[Draco]

Only Greece has doubled in size by taking land from others.

...

Most importantly, Greece has all this land because the powers let them keep the occupied parts. No one, short of Albania starting Nazi-like ovens, will allow Greece to take 50% of the already small Albania, even if you succeed in temporarily occupying it. Today's Greece has lost a lot of the good will created by the people who used to live there 2500 years ago.

...

In short, Greece has a lot to lose and not much to gain.
Hahahahaha... I haven't read anything this funny for weeks. "Taking land from others"?? Do you consider "Chameria" (inhabited by no Albanians) as occupied territory? :D I thought you were a person one could have a reasonable debate with, obviously not! You belong in the same class of people who say that the 1913 Treaty of Bucharest (which set up the internationally recognized borders of Greece, Bulgaria and Serbia/FYROM) violates international law. :rolleyes: Take a hike sweetheart. :p
You forgot one crucial thing: while all have issues among each other, they all have issues with Greece
I see much of an overestimation here, I mean who would get (western) Thrace? Bulgarians want it (because they once had it), but no Bulgarians live there today (the population is 30% Turk 70% Greek, so the Turks will probably want it too). You'd all probably exterminate each other trying to decide how to divide the spoils. :heh:

[kostas68]

Your geopolitical analysis is as naive and groundless as your territorial and nationalistic claims over Greece.

You forgot one crucial thing: while all have issues among each other, they all have issues with Greece.
The same goes for you.You also forgot that 3 of your neighbours have issue with you:Greece,Serbia and FYROM.Turkey,except the Kurds, has also issues with almost all her neighbors:Greece,Bulgaria,Iraq,Syria,Armenia.
FYROM has issue with you and Greece,also Serbia and Bulgaria are waiting in the corner for its partition,if it collapses.
If a (regional) war breaks out, why would Bulgaria go against Turkey
Because Bulgaria and Greece have to confront a common problem:The existence of a Muslim minority,which consist especially in Bulgaria the 10% of its population.
or FYROM when they can cooperate and split parts of the loser, Greece?
Because it's more easier to split a large part of FYROM,whose inhabitants are of the same stock and many of them pro-Bulgarians(actually they are pure Bulgarians).
Only Greece has doubled in size by taking land from others. You say it's fair, others do not.
Greece didn't take lands from others but liberated her own lands that belonged her ethnologically and historically.The <others> were the ones who grabed Greek soils through the centuries.
Most importantly, Greece has all this land because the powers let them keep the occupied parts.
I don't know what lands exactly are you talking about,but what i know very well is that all these lands were liberated by rivers of blood and therefore it's better to stop your illusionary dreams that you'll see one day these lands stop being Greek.As for the permission of the great powers,we use to say in Greece this proverb: <In the hanged man's house don't talk about ropes>.
In short, Greece has a lot to lose and not much to gain.
In short,not only Greece or all the Balkan countries but the whole of Europe has a lot to lose in such a case,if you understand what i imply.

[Orphic_Hymn]

PS I have not made a search yet for the authenticity
of the poem, but if it is true, some people must take the right message.

Don't waste your time since as anyone can see its a forgery.

PS: why the selective quotations again, this time in your signature?

[Grace]

>> Do you consider "Chameria" (inhabited by no Albanians) as occupied territory?

first of all this isn't even a fair comparison: If Turkey occupies 100% of Cyprus and throws all the Greeks off, what does that mean? Turks can say that "No Greeks live there" so Greece should shut up. And I did not use the word "occupied" but we know that the borders have changed and so has the ethnic makeup. Someone signed at the dotted line, so I don't consider it "occupied."

>> Greece didn't take lands from others but liberated her own lands that belonged her ethnologically and historically.The <others> were the ones who grabed Greek soils through the centuries.

That is also for debate. How far back do you want go, 2500 years? Also, is this based on the language they spoke, genetics, culture and how strict will those standards be?
If Albanians says we're Illyrians and want our land back, should we keep it if somehow beat the rest living there for centuries? It isn't as clear or set in stone.

Lastly, what's the difference between Northern Epir and the Southern one if one is "Greek" and belongs in the new Greek state?

I'll answer the rest later,

[helios]

I was about to say Draco, its about as far as katharevousa as you can get:huh: Wherever you got that from, helios, maybe this is a translation of the original into demotic?

I know but I don't have the original( sometime we just dont have access to the original),however for me the important part is its content.

[Tsontos]

You forgot one crucial thing: while all have issues among each other, they all have issues with Greece. If a (regional) war breaks out, why would Bulgaria go against Turkey or FYROM when they can cooperate and split parts of the loser, Greece? Only Greece has doubled in size by taking land from others. You say it's fair, others do not.

The Albanians in FYROM can go either way with one phone call from Tirana or Prishtina. Serbia, is done. As soon as they start to bark again-and they will, their church is notorious for that--Kosova will double it's weapons and so will Croatia and the Bosniaks (the Muslims who know what happened last time.)

By then, they will be three professional armies and enough to keep Serbia in check, or split her forces. They got a few bloody noses and the next time, they might lose Vojvodina and Sanxhak as well. Without a partner, Serbs are losers. They only brag and dream big and have mortal enemies all around them.

The Albanians will not have F-35s, but they will have plenty of mortars and shoulder missiles, a cheap way to render any tank and cheap planes useless. Gun for gun, in a fair fight, I'll bet against Serbs anytime. They had the Yugoslav army and still got their asses kicked by Slovenia and Croatia.

Most importantly, Greece has all this land because the powers let them keep the occupied parts. No one, short of Albania starting Nazi-like ovens, will allow Greece to take 50% of the already small Albania, even if you succeed in temporarily occupying it. Today's Greece has lost a lot of the good will created by the people who used to live there 2500 years ago.

Turkey has problems, but then, they are 60 million strong and the Kurds are not going anywhere. Even if they rise, they will still be there and Turks can fight in both fronts. They are very nationalistic and reservists /local people can go there temporarily as well.

if the powers get involved, all bets are off, but I'd say that Europe and US will be in one side, and only Russia might join you /Serbia. China is too far and wants to control her part of the world, not Mediterranean. A war might actually give us an excuse to pull a Greece and expel all the "Greek collaborators." I know you would have no problems with that ;)

In short, Greece has a lot to lose and not much to gain.

This post is pretty divorced from reality dude.

[Orphic_Hymn]

Naim Frasheri.
"Σε τούτη την εποχή, σε τούτο τον αιώνα,
θέλετε τη φιλία μας, θέλετε την αγάπη;
Εμείς είμαστε Αλβανοί κι σείς Έλληνες είστε,
σεις την Ελλάδα έχετε κι εμείς την Αλβανία.
Σεις έχετε τη γλώσσα σας κι εμείς την εδική μας.
Σε τέτοια βάση δύναται να στεριωθεί η φιλία.
Μη βάζετε, αδέλφια, αυτί στα λόγια των εχθρών μας,
που προσπαθούνε πάντοτε να κάμουν τη θρησκεία
μέσο διχόνοιας μισαρής, μέσο ραδιοργίας,
όργανο του φανατισμού και της καταστροφής μας.
Θέλουν να μας χωρίσουνε για τα συμφέροντά τους".


Did some looking into this.. as we already concluded, this isn't kathareuousa nor written by anyone that knows what it looks like.. its a corrupt presentation of what he wrote in his "Aληθής πόθος των Σκυπετάρων" (True Desire of the Albanians)..

As far as that goes.. didn't manage to find the whole text online, but only a couple of abstracts.. which allowed me to conclude that the poem is definitely not directed towards Hellenes alone nor did he consider us his "brothers" but spoke of forming a brotherhood:

"We want to live with all our neighbors, with Slavs and Hellenes in total harmony. In complete brotherhood, order and peace. But each should respect the other's rights."

Now the language part seems to be related to Frasheri's statement directed towards the Albanians while trying to unite them and begin the national renaissance, where he states: "you are all brothers by blood and language, don't separate yourselves by saying Giaour and Turk"
As for the you have yours, we have ours attempted beautification.. the following quote clarifies what his ideas were trully all about:

"If one should examine the virtuous, the just and the great, and the wisest of them, and Aristotle and Ptolemy and various others of the wisest, he'll learn that they belong to the brave race of the Shqiptar"

But such quotes or rediculous linguistic theories such as Epirus deriving from the Albanian "epërm" ( upper/superior), Achilles from "aqilehti" (light/fast) or Pyrrhus from "burrë" (man/strong) or even claims on Alexander (see his poem titled Pelesget-Shqipetaret) should be given little value.

[Andrew]

But such quotes or rediculous linguistic theories such as Epirus deriving from the Albanian "epërm" ( upper/superior), Achilles from "aqilehti" (light/fast) or Pyrrhus from "burrë" (man/strong) or even claims on Alexander (see Pelesget-Shqipetaret) should be given little value.


:clap2::clapping::clap2:

Orphic is there an ancient Greek name that they haven't yet claimed as theirs "etymologicaly" ???? :clap2::clapping::clap2:

About Pyrrhus (a perfect greek word meaning blond-redish) as "burre" .... are they sure that it's not purès:

http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/3024/poyrestu5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/3024/poyrestu5.3c68a2049a.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=295&i=poyrestu5.jpg)

[kostas68]

I know but I don't have the original( sometime we just dont have access to the original),however for me the important part is its content.
Περ τεν ζονε?It seems too Greek to me:περί την ζώνη=around the zone(=belt).

[Orphic_Hymn]

:clap2::clapping::clap2:

Orphic is there an ancient Greek name that they haven't yet claimed as theirs "etymologicaly" ???? :clap2::clapping::clap2:

About Pyrrhus (a perfect greek word meaning blond-redish) as "burre" .... are they sure that it's not purès:

http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/3024/poyrestu5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/3024/poyrestu5.3c68a2049a.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=295&i=poyrestu5.jpg)


Well falsification is a norm among Albanian nationalist hot-heads.. Take our friend helios as an example, as if his endless distortions of texts in the Illyrian and Souliotes threads weren't enough, he now adds a nit-picked quote to his signature in some sick attempt to relate the worship of Zeus to "ancient" Albanians... The whole text says a different story..

helios' signature:

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c259/panosvls/229dd342.jpg


REALITY

"Zeus: A Study in Ancient Religion" by Arthur Bernard Cook


http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c259/panosvls/0.jpg
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c259/panosvls/1-35.jpg?t=1214176895
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c259/panosvls/12.jpg
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c259/panosvls/13.jpg
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c259/panosvls/2-6.jpg
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c259/panosvls/21.jpg
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c259/panosvls/22-1.jpg


So we find our dear friend helios intentionally omitting to quote the text which presents us with the FACT that firstly we're reading something related to the early 19th century and not antiquity and that while A.Soutzo records the purely Hellenic "Ηκουτε με Ζωνε θεε", (hear me God Zeus) C. Wachsmuth records the Albanian "per tene zone" which means "by the Lord, by God" and believes that their might be some connection. In either case linguistically related or not, it proves nothing about any form of relation of Zeus to the Albanians as he'd hope it would simply because there's a timegap of a couple of millenia.

[Draco]

first of all this isn't even a fair comparison: If Turkey occupies 100% of Cyprus and throws all the Greeks off, what does that mean? Turks can say that "No Greeks live there" so Greece should shut up. And I did not use the word "occupied" but we know that the borders have changed and so has the ethnic makeup. Someone signed at the dotted line, so I don't consider it "occupied."
The difference is that the UN has declared the Turkish occupation of Cyprus illegal. No one, not even Albania, has challenged Greece's rights relating to "Chameria". Only wide-eyed nationalists such as yourself do.
That is also for debate. How far back do you want go, 2500 years? Also, is this based on the language they spoke, genetics, culture and how strict will those standards be?
If Albanians says we're Illyrians and want our land back, should we keep it if somehow beat the rest living there for centuries? It isn't as clear or set in stone.
We don't need to go back 2,500 years; 100 years will be sufficient.
Lastly, what's the difference between Northern Epir and the Southern one if one is "Greek" and belongs in the new Greek state?
I don't understand what you are asking.

[helios]

Περ τεν ζονε?It seems too Greek to me:περί την ζώνη=around the zone(=belt).

What are you talking about?. This is my signature my friend. I was talking about the poem.You are confusing the kek with the byrek.

[helios]

:clap2::clapping::clap2:

Orphic is there an ancient Greek name that they haven't yet claimed as theirs "etymologicaly" ???? :clap2::clapping::clap2:

About Pyrrhus (a perfect greek word meaning blond-redish) as "burre" .... are they sure that it's not purès:




Telling the truth the greek word Purrhus(Πυῤῥ-us) is much closer to PURE than Albanian word BURR(us)=man, strong.

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/5826/pyrrusburruswl1.jpg

[helios]

As for you Orphic Hymn, worthless and desperate.

[helios]

A.Soutzo records the purely Hellenic "Ηκουτε με Ζωνε θεε", (hear me God Zeus)


Περ τεν ζονε?It seems too Greek to me:περί την ζώνη=around the zone(=belt).

According to these gentelmens we have PURELY and TOO Helenic.
If we trust them and we surely do:dry: Ζωνε=Zeus=zone=belt :huh::huh:

It must be a colorfull zone or belt, a blonde zone, a reddish zone like the hairs of Pyrrhus the South-Epirotan.
Yes we have a blonde Zeus according the accurate modern greek translation.
CONGRATULATION.

[Tsontos]

That's some nice etymological musings there helios.

[Orphic_Hymn]

Telling the truth the greek word Purrhus(Πυ??-us) is much closer to PURE than Albanian word BURR(us)=man, strong.

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/5826/pyrrusburruswl1.jpg

Much closer is an understatement, since you seem inable to comprehend that your quote of Charlton T. Lewis, Charles Short "A Latin Dictionary's entry on the letter Y is refering to words BORROWED FROM HELLENIC, hence:

a Greek letter introduced at a late period for words borrowed from the Greek, the place of the Greek U

but in either way what you should have quoted was the entry related to the letter B (hence Burrus).. and there you'd read:


As in the middle, so at the beginning of words, b might take the place of another labial, e. g. buxis for pyxis, balaena for phalaina, carbatina for carpatina, publicus from poplicus, ambo for ampho; as even Enn. wrote Burrus and Bruges for Pyrrhus and Phryges; Naev., Balantium for Palatium (v. the latter words, and cf. Fest. p. 26).

with a simple glance at the words mentioned above:

buxis - pyxis = box-wood
balena - phalaina = whale
carbatina - carpatina = leather shoe
ambo - ampho = both


we find that the letter change does NOT alter the loaned word's meaning, hence why the entry related to Y, mentions BORROWED FROM HELLENIC. So your underlining of the sentence related to the use of Burrus by Romans, who we again should note did not alter the name's meaning nor attempt to apply some rediculous etymology like "man/strong" which Albanian nationalists have, simply do not support the drivel you've been flooding the thread with.

As for you Orphic Hymn, worthless and desperate.

Child you entertain the rest of the members with your stupidity and thats really the only reason you're still posting. So forget about trying to critisize others and continue doing the only thing you're good at.. being the court-jester you are and provide us with endless laughs.

[kostas68]

:clap2::clapping::clap2:

Orphic is there an ancient Greek name that they haven't yet claimed as theirs "etymologicaly" ???? :clap2::clapping::clap2:

About Pyrrhus (a perfect greek word meaning blond-redish) as "burre" .... are they sure that it's not purès:

http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/3024/poyrestu5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/3024/poyrestu5.3c68a2049a.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=295&i=poyrestu5.jpg)
Sorry,Andrew,but your etymology lacks of historical accuracy and scientific documentation.According to those historians who studied Pyrros' nutritial behaviour,his favorite meal wasn't poures but burek.
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn17/kostas68/650x565-mpoureki.jpg
So,it's clearly that the name Pyrros derives from burek and i hope that the Turks won't claim Pyrros as they do with burek.

[Andrew]

Sorry,Andrew,but your etymology lacks of historical accuracy and scientific documentation.According to those historians who studied Pyrros' nutritial behaviour,his favorite meal wasn't poures but burek.
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn17/kostas68/650x565-mpoureki.jpg
So,it's clearly that the name Pyrros derives from burek and i hope that the Turks won't claim Pyrros as they do with burek.

:clap2::clapping::clap2:

Or Πύρρος derives from "μπύρα" ??

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/1141/beerpr0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
[URL=http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=293&i=beerpr0.jpg]http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/1141/beerpr0.16ab89b61b.jpg[/

[kostas68]

:clap2::clapping::clap2:

Or Πύρρος derives from "μπύρα" ??

http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/1141/beerpr0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
[URL=http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=293&i=beerpr0.jpg]http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/1141/beerpr0.16ab89b61b.jpg[/
If we accept this etymology,we can easily conclude this:
Although the beer is considered as the national drink of Germans,the archeologists agree that the first beer was made in ancient Egypt.
Egypt=Roseta stone=Protoslavic language=Pyrros was an ancient <Makedonski> and beer has <Makedonski> origin and etymology.
Pures,if i'm not wrong is a French invention.Burek is considered as Turkish,so i think we should stop it right now,otherwise we'll provoke an international Greco-Albano-Turko-Egypto-French-German-Scopian conflict with unpredictable results.

[TirAlb]

Sorry,Andrew,but your etymology lacks of historical accuracy and scientific documentation.According to those historians who studied Pyrros' nutritial behaviour,his favorite meal wasn't poures but burek.
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn17/kostas68/650x565-mpoureki.jpg
So,it's clearly that the name Pyrros derives from burek and i hope that the Turks won't claim Pyrros as they do with burek.

You are not very familiar with byrek kosta,because that's not Byrek but bakllava.

[Amarantos]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6c/Baklava%28RobertK%29.jpg/800px-Baklava%28RobertK%29.jpg

[TirAlb]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6c/Baklava%28RobertK%29.jpg/800px-Baklava%28RobertK%29.jpg

This is the typical bakllava shape,but the pre-packed bakllava have often that cylindrical form.

[helios]

Well falsification is a norm among Albanian nationalist hot-heads.. Take our friend helios as an example, as if his endless distortions of texts in the Illyrian and Souliotes threads weren't enough, he now adds a nit-picked quote to his signature in some sick attempt to relate the worship of Zeus to "ancient" Albanians... The whole text says a different story..

helios' signature:

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c259/panosvls/229dd342.jpg


REALITY

"Zeus: A Study in Ancient Religion" by Arthur Bernard Cook


http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c259/panosvls/0.jpg
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c259/panosvls/1-35.jpg?t=1214176895
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c259/panosvls/12.jpg
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c259/panosvls/13.jpg
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c259/panosvls/2-6.jpg
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c259/panosvls/21.jpg
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c259/panosvls/22-1.jpg


So we find our dear friend helios intentionally omitting to quote the text which presents us with the FACT that firstly we're reading something related to the early 19th century and not antiquity and that while A.Soutzo records the purely Hellenic "Ηκουτε με Ζωνε θεε", (hear me God Zeus) C. Wachsmuth records the Albanian "per tene zone" which means "by the Lord, by God" and believes that their might be some connection. In either case linguistically related or not, it proves nothing about any form of relation of Zeus to the Albanians as he'd hope it would simply because there's a timegap of a couple of millenia.

Your pathetic posts and desperate deserve some other evidences.

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/6015/zonetene1kv0.jpg

So the DWELLERS OF THE DISTRICT call ZEUS(the great God) as ZONOS or ZANOS.

the inhabitant of the country in CRETE call HIM : ZONOS

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/6496/zonoszeusgq5.jpg

What are these inhabitants ? What is their ethnicity?

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/220/zeussymbolshc2.jpg

ALBANIANS!!!!!!!! How strange.

The photo is taken 130 years ago and a spontenaous local inhabitant is posing in front of the camera.
This spontaneous local inhabitant happens to be... ALBANIAN and not Greek.

[helios]

Now let see which nation calls the mighty GOD as ZONE :

Since we started the thread with Naim Frasheri I will bring another poem from him:

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/2419/zone3fu0.png

[Victor]

I applaud 19th century ALbanians for realizing there own culture was horribly lacking and adopting ancient Greek culture.Bravo!:clapping:

[Andrew]

All the necessery linguistic correlation evidence are below ...watch carefully !!!!!!

YouTube - To krasaki tou Tsou

[kostas68]

Your pathetic posts and desperate deserve some other evidences.

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/6015/zonetene1kv0.jpg

So the DWELLERS OF THE DISTRICT call ZEUS(the great God) as ZONOS or ZANOS.

the inhabitant of the country in CRETE call HIM : ZONOS

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/6496/zonoszeusgq5.jpg

What are these inhabitants ? What is their ethnicity?

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/220/zeussymbolshc2.jpg

ALBANIANS!!!!!!!! How strange.

The photo is taken 130 years ago and a spontenaous local inhabitant is posing in front of the camera.
This spontaneous local inhabitant happens to be... ALBANIAN and not Greek.
What local inhabitant?The photo is from Knossos and the people who called Zeus as Zonos were residing around Anogeia,in Mt. Ide.Do you know where exactly is located Anogeia and where Knossos?Look here,Anogeia(Ανώγεια) is in the left side,above Ίδη (Ide) and Knossos(Κνωσσός) is below the city of Iraklio (Ηράκλειο).
http://www.loupassis.gr/show-map-el.jsp?id=iraklp&xxx=200&yyy=0&crete=

[Andrew]

Helios did you took any pils , before considering the man in Knossos Albanian ??

LSD ?? hallucinations ??

some people see green dworfs ....some see Albanians ...

[kostas68]

Helios did you took any pils , before considering the man in Knossos Albanian ??

LSD ?? hallucinations ??

some people see green dworfs ....some see Albanians ...

I don't think that he took pills,actualy he needs to take pills,because he suffers of the syndrome of heavy ancient Albanitis,these today are some of the extreme symptoms.

[helios]

Helios did you took any pils , before considering the man in Knossos Albanian ??

LSD ?? hallucinations ??

some people see green dworfs ....some see Albanians ...

Pills of sateme
hallucination of sateme

[helios]

I don't think that he took pills,actualy he needs to take pills,because he suffers of the syndrome of heavy ancient Albanitis,these today are some of the extreme symptoms.


Pills of satmotre
Look at this traditional Albanian costume:

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/1290/tirqekh9.jpg

those are exactly the same clothes with the young guy in Knossos and unfortunately the same with Hector more than 3000 years ago.

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/220/zeussymbolshc2.jpg

[chicagogeorge]

^^
:huh:


So now the Albanians are not Illyrians, but Minoans. Please take your findings to a University and present them.:clapping:

Here, are some more Minoans, oh I mean Albanians in typical dress.:clapping:

http://www.hellenic-art.com/statues/f58.jpg

http://www.hellenic-art.com/statues/f56.jpg

http://www.mlahanas.de/Greeks/Minoan/ThMinoan3.jpg

http://www.travelingclassroom.org/tcf/wp-content/uploads/2006/07/akrotiri_boxers.jpg



Don't they look like Albanians:)

[helios]

So now the Albanians are not Illyrians, but Minoans. Please take your findings to a University and present them.:clapping:

Here, are some more Minoans, oh I mean Albanians in typical dress.:clapping:

Don't they look like Albanians:)

If you say so ...
But since Hellas was the main source of civilisation the Romans decided to call it ....Illyricum.

http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/2415/illyricumprefecturegs5.png

[helios]

^^

Here, are some more Minoans, oh I mean Albanians in typical dress.:clapping:

Don't they look like Albanians:)

By the way , since you mentioned Minoans costumes.
You could be possibly {right}, they {dont} look similar at all:

http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/8752/minoancostmemc0.gif

Your {right}

[chicagogeorge]

If you say so ....

No I don't say so. Nobody in there right mind would say so.

.
But since Hellas was the main source of civilisation the Romans decided to call it ....Illyricum.

Yeah ok, and the Ottomans had different names for their villayets. So what. :huh:

http://www.unrv.com/images/provinces/illyricum.jpg

Those same Romans called Epirus Greece:clap2:


we know of no Greek before Pyrros who fought against Rome.

Pausanias, 1.11

Pyrros was the first to cross over against Rome from mainland Greece, and even so he went over only because he was called in by Tarentumâ

Pausanias, 1.12


"It was for this reason that Pyrros was defeated by the Romans also in a battle to the finish. For it was no mean or untrained army that he had, but the mightiest of those then in existence among the Greeks and one that had fought a great many wars; nor was it a small body of men that was then arrayed under him, but even three times as large as his adversary's, nor was its general any chance leader, but rather the man whom all admit to have been the greatest of all the generals who flourish at that same period;"


Dionysius of Halicarnnasus, Roman Antiquities, 19.11



"Pyrros, the king of Epirus, had a particularly high opinion of his powers because he was deemed by foreign nations a match for the Romans; and he believed that it would be opportune to assist the fugitives who had taken refuge with him, especially as they were Greeks, and at the same time so forestall the Romans with some plausible excuse before he should suffer injury at their hands. For so careful was he about his good reputation that though he had long had his eye on Sicily and had been considering how he could overthrow the power of the Romans, he shrank from taking the initiative in hostilities against them, when no wrong had been done him."

Cassius Dio, Book 9.4

[helios]

No I don't say so. Nobody in there right mind would say so.

.

Yeah ok, and the Ottomans had different names for their villayets. So what. :huh:

http://www.unrv.com/images/provinces/illyricum.jpg

Those same Romans called Epirus Greece:clap2:



Pausanias, 1.11



Pausanias, 1.12




Dionysius of Halicarnnasus, Roman Antiquities, 19.11




Cassius Dio, Book 9.4

Pirdh te shfryhesh
TRANSLATION
You are so convincible.

[chicagogeorge]

By the way , since you mentioned Minoans costumes.
You could be possibly {right}, they {dont} look similar at all:
Your {right}

Typically Balkan.

Just like this modern Cretan woman.

http://www.minoans.com/images/419%201999-Festival-MII-Cretan-Mia.jpg


Here is a Minoan dress

http://www.geocities.com/mikidennis2000/min.jpg

[chicagogeorge]

Pirdh te shfryhesh
TRANSLATION
You are so convincible.


Because I choose to listen to the words of the ancients and not to someone like you?

[helios]

No I don't say so. Nobody in there right mind would say so.

.

Yeah ok, and the Ottomans had different names for their villayets. So what. :huh:

http://www.unrv.com/images/provinces/illyricum.jpg

Those same Romans called Epirus Greece:clap2:



Pausanias, 1.11



Pausanias, 1.12




Dionysius of Halicarnnasus, Roman Antiquities, 19.11




Cassius Dio, Book 9.4

stasi me ta axrista apospasmata kai ta keimena sas

[helios]

Typically Balkan.
http://www.minoans.com/images/419%201999-Festival-MII-Cretan-Mia.jpg



Absolutely not. The Albanian dress XHUBLETA is totally specific:

http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/7158/xhubleta2mr4.jpg

No one else in the entire Balcan wears it, beside Albanian woman.

[chicagogeorge]

^^

Are you trying to tell me that that Balkan dress is somehow similar to the Minoan dress??
Pleas go on, tell me what other fascinating similarities the Albanians have with the ancient Minoans.

[Morphesau]

Pills of satmotre
Look at this traditional Albanian costume:

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/1290/tirqekh9.jpg
those are exactly the same clothes with the young guy in Knossos and unfortunately the same with Hector more than 3000 years ago.


XA XA XA !!! This just keeps getting more comical :clap2:

[Andrew]

Pills of satmotre
Look at this traditional Albanian costume:

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/1290/tirqekh9.jpg

those are exactly the same clothes with the young guy in Knossos and unfortunately the same with Hector more than 3000 years ago.

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/220/zeussymbolshc2.jpg

Now I'm serius about the LSD question ....stop it now that you can save youself !!!!

How the f*ck are the clothes of the 2 Albos similar to the clothes of the Cretan boy ???

And Hector .....how the f*ck do you see his clothes and how the f*ck can you define heigh similarity grade ...wake up !!

[Amarantos]

Here we see another proud albanian costume ,with roots dating since 3000 BC, in a modern catwalk promoting the sense for renovation and avant-garde creations distinguishing the proud fashion designer.

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/7632/getimg55cm3.jpg




Give us a break helios

[kostas68]

stasi me ta axrista apospasmata kai ta keimena sas
I see you're trying to document your illusionary theories quoting ancient pottery painting whereas you call <achrista> (useless) whatever ancient text doesn't suits you and belies these theories,but this isn't a scientific approachment and documentation.

[Kritikos]

Helios,the cretan boy is obviously wearing the traditional cretan vraka (google for it,because i dont want you to claim that i linked something completely different) to see. In this foto we can see the long version of it,as there is the short one as well (which can be found in every cycladic island,as well as in Ionian Islands). The Albanians in the foto are wearing trousers.This is not a big difference to a non skillful eye (especially if he is not a cretan),but to me it certainly is.

But,sincerely,claiming one's ethnicity out of his costume is,to put it politely,naive.

Minoans were not indoeuropeans,how can you claim ancestry from both an indoeuropean group of people (Illyrians) and a NON one (Minoans),especially when the first albanian who set foot in Crete was Ibrahim Pasha of Egypt in 19th century?:dry:

[Andrew]

If you say so ...
But since Hellas was the main source of civilisation the Romans decided to call it ....Illyricum.

http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/2415/illyricumprefecturegs5.png

This map is not right !!!

Peloponnesus and Sterea were the roman province of Achaia topbrain!!!

[Andrew]

This map is not right !!!

Peloponnesus and Sterea were the roman province of Achaia topbrain!!!

No it's ok but it's bad written ....:

Watch carefully Sterea and Peloponnnese are more green and it's written
"of Achaia"

Of Illyricum corresponds to epeirus and albania , just as of Macedonia corrisponds to Macedonia , Thessaly , Paeonia and South Dardania. (Macedonia e Macedonia Salutaris).

Now my monkey boy , since you're so clever on claiming origins and parentage by using the Roman regional suddivision then you must explain to me one thing: Why the Real North Illyricum (Dalmatia) is called (OF ITALY).

Why under the name "of Macedonia" you have Paeonians , Dardanians and Greeks (Macedonians and Thessalians) ?? I say because it was convenient to the Romans and nothing more.

In your Troll logic ...The american continent is part of Asia just because Colombus first named it "India" (he thought he had reached India hence we have the American "Indians" Cherokee , Apache etc).

[Orphic_Hymn]

Pills of satmotre
Look at this traditional Albanian costume:

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/1290/tirqekh9.jpg

those are exactly the same clothes with the young guy in Knossos and unfortunately the same with Hector more than 3000 years ago.


Yeah Hector also wore your skull cap..

But do tell us, which are the differences between the "Albanian" and this Slovak costume?
http://spartlow.com/jennninsk/photos3/sk_dancers.jpg

Or how about this Serb one?

http://bp0.blogger.com/_Bz7a4GwsZAw/R-PJAaxOE_I/AAAAAAAAERA/wAosmvKpBxE/s320/SERBIA_TRADITIONAL+COSTUME_02.JPG


Are they also the descendants of Hector ??



http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/220/zeussymbolshc2.jpg

Next time when you cite a book, be sure to mention its title.
But again tell us, what does the boy's costume which is this:

http://www.foresia.com/images/jpeg/217402.jpg


have to do with the Albanian costume.. where's the similarity ?







If you say so ...
But since Hellas was the main source of civilisation the Romans decided to call it ....Illyricum.

http://img58.imageshack.us/img58/2415/illyricumprefecturegs5.png


What don't you understand about the term prefecture, aka Diocese = from O.Fr. diocese, from L.L. diocesis "a governor's jurisdiction," later, "a bishop's jurisdiction," from Gk. diokesis "province," originally "economy, housekeeping," from diokein "manage a house," from dia- "thoroughly" + oikos "house" (see villa). (online etymologic dictionary).. Start reading about the Roman prefectures and stop making a fool of yourself.

[Tsontos]

According to those Roman jurisdictions, Hungary, Croatia are Italy.

[helios]

What don't you understand about the term prefecture, aka Diocese = from O.Fr. diocese, from L.L. diocesis "a governor's jurisdiction," later, "a bishop's jurisdiction," from Gk. diokesis "province," originally "economy, housekeeping," from diokein "manage a house," from dia- "thoroughly" + oikos "house" (see villa). (online etymologic dictionary).. Start reading about the Roman prefectures and stop making a fool of yourself.

Actually you are right:
DIOKEZE from Greek = lesh me qime= qimet e bubit= satrap= province=akribos=thoroughly=agros=villa=kubernan=m anage

You got it right. I must start learning the roman language. The romans themselves were constantly visiting Greece to.... borrow some words....since they didnt have a spoken language.

[Andrew]

Actually you are right:
DIOKEZE from Greek = lesh me qime= qimet e bubit= satrap= province=akribos=thoroughly=agros=villa=kubernan=m anage

You got it right. I must start learning the roman language. The romans themselves were constantly visiting Greece to.... borrow some words....since they didnt have a spoken language.

Stop acting like a brainless monkey !!!!

[helios]

But do tell us, which are the differences between the "Albanian" and this Slovak costume?
http://spartlow.com/jennninsk/photos3/sk_dancers.jpg


I must admit , your {{{trained}} eye, noticed that the Slovac costume is identical to the Albanian one:

http://www.albmuzika.com/costumes/veshjetropoja.jpg

http://www.albmuzika.com/costumes/veshjegjirokastra.jpg

[helios]

Stop acting like a brainless monkey !!!!

Telling the truth since the Ancient Greeks were the first evolving from the monkeys and then the other races evolved from the greeks I would say that you are closer to them, since you claim the direct descendence from them.

Now you are {{{{right}}}}. These costumes have nothing to do with each-other:

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/220/zeussymbolshc2.jpg

http://www.bashkimidance.com/fotoshop-english/images/18.%20Duet.jpg

[Andrew]

Of course I'm right !! You can't distinguish the Cretan Vraka ...the Albanian pants you shoed are less large ...It's obvius ...

When will you post something historicaly descent my little Alvanaki ??

Isn't there a serius person posting at the FORUMs from here you copy-paste your sh*t ? Try to find a serius Albanian ..first talk with him ..and then come and talk to us about history ...do it not and you'll continue on trolling

:clap2::clapping::clap2: !!

[helios]

Isn't there a serius person posting at the FORUMs from here you copy-paste your sh*t ? !!
Actually my sh*t is more descent than the whole glorious tale-history you created these 200 years about the direct descendence from Ancient Hellenes which themselves were descended from some ancient monkeys with a Hellenic background by their side.

[Andrew]

Actually my sh*t is more descent than whole glorious tale-history you created these 200 years about the direct descendence from Ancient Hellenes which themselves were descended from some ancient monkeys with a Hellenic background by their side.


Ya ok ....see you

[helios]

Ya ok ....see you

Dont forget to greet the supermoderator which in Albanian means Supercar and is translated superautomobile.

[helios]

Helios,the cretan boy is obviously wearing the traditional cretan vraka (google for it,because i dont want you to claim that i linked something completely different) to see.

Ok I googled following your advice...

If to you this

http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/1935/picture2ox6.png

looks max 1% similar to this:

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/220/zeussymbolshc2.jpg

let me know...

[Kritikos]

Ok I googled following your advice...

If to you this

http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/1935/picture2ox6.png

looks max 1% similar to this:

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/220/zeussymbolshc2.jpg

let me know...

I will take that it is your misinformation or lack of knowledge,or even your haste that makes you want to prove the greeks wrong in this thread at any costs,right?

1st: What you have googled is the ''Haniotiko design'',the version of the cloth of western crete,when the picture comes from Knossos. Now,unless they moved the archaeological site 150kms To Chania last time i went back home to my island i saw it in Herakleion.

And this is the version from Herakleion where Knossos is found: (from the site you used)

http://www.greekfolkdancers.com/groupphotos/Costumes/Disk2/DSC_0018.jpg

http://www.greekfolkdancers.com/groupphotos/Costumes/Disk2/DSC_0016.jpg

I have clearly stated that there is the long and the short version of it. I guess you distinguish better what a vraka is than someone who comes from Crete,let alone when it is seen on a photo,right? The boy on the photo obviously does not wear high boots,as the result the vraka goes down to his shoes. The same result will be seen if the guy on the photo i posted takes off his own,rest assured that the cloth will go down up to his heel as well.Your albanians obviously wear trousers,or do you doubt this too? The boy in Knossos is even wearing a black (or dark blue?) vest on top of a white camice as the version of the cloth i posted!! How can you not see it? Dont let your stubborness blinds you;)

2nd: You still havent answered my very question. You guys claim ancestry from Illyrians,who were Indoeuropean,while Minoans (and the rest of the Sea people) were NOT. How can this be? You cant have them all ,nor both ways you know.More importantly,how come we cannot find any albanian (arberesh included) on the island prior to 19th century?


and 3rd: Your language exists in written form since 15th century (correct me if i am wrong),crawling among the linguistics and turning upside down etymologies from greek to albanian and does not stand in any linguistical circles,unless you find a decree on albanian language which is at least contemporary to greek. On other words greeks can claim that albanian was influenced more than greek than vice versa and noone can turn this claim down on linguistical basis.

Regards.

[Andrew]

I will take that it is your misinformation or lack of knowledge,or even your haste that makes you want to prove the greeks wrong in this thread at any costs,right?

It's called pressure generated from the inferiority complex. When he'll bypass it and enter the rational state of TirAlb and Grace then he'll be able on having a constructive conversation.


2nd: You still havent answered my very question. You guys claim ancestry from Illyrians,who were Indoeuropean,while Minoans (and the rest of the Sea people) were NOT. How can this be? You cant have them all ,nor both ways you know.More importantly,how come we cannot find any albanian (arberesh included) on the island prior to 19th century?

Kritike , do you actually think that Dr Alban here can distinguish IEans and no-IEans , centums & satems and paleolithic , neolithic X Western , Central , Eastern genetic haplogroups .....when I first asked him his answer was:

Centum/Satem, IE PIE ......these are the tools you {scientifely} back up your dogma. As for me I dont beleive in these crap

[kostas68]

Actually you are right:
DIOKEZE from Greek = lesh me qime= qimet e bubit= satrap= province=akribos=thoroughly=agros=villa=kubernan=m anage

You got it right. I must start learning the roman language. The romans themselves were constantly visiting Greece to.... borrow some words....since they didnt have a spoken language.
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=diocese&searchmode=none
Telling the truth since the Ancient Greeks were the first evolving from the monkeys and then the other races evolved from the greeks I would say that you are closer to them, since you claim the direct descendence from them.

Now you are {{{{right}}}}. These costumes have nothing to do with each-other:

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/220/zeussymbolshc2.jpg

http://www.bashkimidance.com/fotoshop-english/images/18.%20Duet.jpg
The Albanian pant is white,what colour is the vraka of the boy from Knossos?

[TirAlb]

Come on guys stop this discussion,its childish,he can also,be japonese, who cares.

[Kritikos]

Come on guys stop this discussion,its childish,he can also,be japonese, who cares.

From my post no56 in this thread:

But,sincerely,claiming one's ethnicity out of his costume is,to put it politely,naive

Kritike , do you actually think that Dr Alban here can distinguish IEans and no-IEans , centums & satems and paleolithic , neolithic X Western , Central , Eastern genetic haplogroups .....when I first asked him his answer was:


Originally Posted by helios
Centum/Satem, IE PIE ......these are the tools you {scientifely} back up your dogma. As for me I dont beleive in these crap

Oh i see,i must have slipped this part. No point in arguying at all then,because one cannot discuss on a serious level.

[Orphic_Hymn]

Actually you are right:
DIOKEZE from Greek = lesh me qime= qimet e bubit= satrap= province=akribos=thoroughly=agros=villa=kubernan=m anage

You got it right. I must start learning the roman language. The romans themselves were constantly visiting Greece to.... borrow some words....since they didnt have a spoken language.

As I've said time and time again, your stupidity is frightening!!!

But I'd love to hear our favorite court jester explain the linguistic laws under which this literal mastrubation of linguistics is probable and then note the connection between all these words..
like how is your Albanian "lesh" which insultmonger translates as "pubic hair" related to "agros" which means "field" or to "akrivos", which is the adjective of "akrives" (hetta) and means "exact, accurate, precise" (the same applies to the whole list) ?

I must admit , your {{{trained}} eye, noticed that the Slovac costume is identical to the Albanian one:

Identical to the ones you now posted, no, but similar..now if we were to looa at the first one you posted (the ones you related to Hector) yup, very very similar.. if not, do note the differnces between them.

PS: why are you avoiding to tell us which book you got the pic (boy in Crete) from ?

[helios]

As I've said time and time again, your stupidity is frightening!!!

But I'd love to hear our favorite court jester explain the linguistic laws under which this literal mastrubation of linguistics is probable and then note the connection between all these words..
like how is your Albanian "lesh" which insultmonger translates as "pubic hair" related to "agros" which means "field" or to "akrivos", which is the adjective of "akrives" (hetta) and means "exact, accurate, precise" (the same applies to the whole list) ?


You dare call me stupid, while you are such an idiot not to understand I was being sarcastic with this kind of ethymology that you served to us as accurate:

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/2231/picture2sx7.png

Flooded with many terms this explanation is totally ridicilous.
Let me take you by hand to show how far from reality it is:

It says:
From Gk diokesis= province
NO
1. Province= satrapeia
or
eparhia(in the roman sense)
or
hora(as oppossed to a town)

then dictionary arbitrarely puts another concept:
originally "economy housekeeping" which is

2. economy housekeeping=oikonomia
or
oikonomike

considering its {accuracy} not boring enough the dictionary floods the explanation with another word :
from dia: "thoroughly" which in an. greek is

3. thoroughly(seen as entirely)= pantos, pante, pantelos
thoroughly(seen as exactly, accurate)=akribos
thorough(seen as complete)=teleios
or
teleos
thorough(seen as entire)=olos

This dictionary is FULL of these nonsenses.
By the way the similarity betwen An. greek and Albanian language is surprising.

[kostas68]

By the way the similarity betwen An. greek and Albanian language is surprising.
And if you don't know it,the simmilarity between ancient and modern Greek is much more surprising.But if there really exist a simmilarity between some ancient Greek and Albanian words (i have read the relevant excerpt from Aristidis Kollias' book,i'm sure you know who he was),you should be happy for this,it could mean that the Albanians may have actually Greek roots,this was exactly Kollias' belief.

[helios]

And if you don't know it,the simmilarity between ancient and modern Greek is much more surprising.But if there really exist a simmilarity between some ancient Greek and Albanian words (i have read the relevant excerpt from Aristidis Kollias' book,i'm sure you know who he was),you should be happy for this,it could mean that the Albanians may have actually Greek roots,this was exactly Kollias' belief.

Your dictionary ONLINE ETYMOLOGY DICTIONARY sometimes is not even correct because in an. Greek:
to manage a house is oikein and not diokein like your dict. pretends:

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/2231/picture2sx7.png

It is another word which fits it:
DIOIKESIS=MANAGEMENT= DI QES(alb)=to KNOW how to GOVERN

[Orphic_Hymn]

You dare call me stupid, while you are such an idiot not to understand I was being sarcastic with this kind of ethymology that you served to us as accurate:

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/2231/picture2sx7.png

Flooded with many terms this explanation is totally ridicilous.
Let me take you by hand to show how far from reality it is:


Listen troll, you've already proven to be incompotent of comprehending anything written in an academic paper especially if that is an abbreviation, but this time you top the list of morons with your incapability of comprehending a dictionary entry.

PAY ATTENTION AND YOU JUST MIGHT LEARN HOW TO READ A DICTIONARY!!!

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/2231/picture2sx7.png


*The english word "diocese" appears c. = circa = about, around 1330,

* it derives from the Ol. Fr, = Old. French "diocese", which in turn derives from

*L.L = Late Latin "diocesis" which means = "a governor's jurisdiction" and later came to mean "a bishop's jurisdiction" ...
The Late Latin word.. derives from the

*Gk. = Hellenic "dioikesis" (mispelt since the iota is missing) which at the time of its addoption by Latin meant "province"..

BUT !!!the Hellenic word itself, originally meant "economy, housekeeping" since it derives from "dioikein" = "manage a house" , which is a "composite word" from the concatenation of dia = thoroughly and oikos = house... for futher explanation of "house"... see "villa"


Now intellectual midget, do you comprehend what an ass you've made out of yourself ???

[helios]

Listen troll, you've already proven to be incompotent of comprehending anything written in an academic paper especially if that is an abbreviation, but this time you top the list of morons with your incapability of comprehending a dictionary entry.

PAY ATTENTION AND YOU JUST MIGHT LEARN HOW TO READ A DICTIONARY!!!

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/2231/picture2sx7.png


*The english word "diocese" appears c. = circa = about, around 1330,

* it derives from the Ol. Fr, = Old. French "diocese", which in turn derives from

*L.L = Late Latin "diocesis" which means = "a governor's jurisdiction" and later came to mean "a bishop's jurisdiction" ...
The Late Latin word.. derives from the

*Gk. = Hellenic "dioikesis" (mispelt since the iota is missing) which at the time of its addoption by Latin meant "province"..

BUT !!!the Hellenic word itself, originally meant "economy, housekeeping" since it derives from "dioikein" = "manage a house" , which is a "composite word" from the concatenation of dia = thoroughly and oikos = house... for futher explanation of "house"... see "villa"


Now intellectual midget, do you comprehend what an ass you've made out of yourself ???

I will take you another time by hand :
From Gk diokesis= province
NO because
1. Province= satrapeia
or
eparhia(in the roman sense)
or
hora(as oppossed to a town)

then dictionary arbitrarely puts another concept:
originally "economy housekeeping"

NO because
2. economy housekeeping=oikonomia
or
oikonomike

considering its {accuracy} not boring enough the dictionary floods the explanation with another word :
from dia: "thoroughly" which in an. greek is

NO, NO, NO
because there is no such thing dia=thorough
3. thoroughly(seen as entirely)= pantos, pante, pantelos
thoroughly(seen as exactly, accurate)=akribos
thorough(seen as complete)=teleios
or
teleos
thorough(seen as entire)=olos

[helios]

Let me ask you another thing.
Who cares where the word Diokese comes from.
Te debate was about the word ZONE.
How come the people of Crete and other Greek regions are using an Albanian word for the God.
ZE or Zon or Zan.
They are all Albanian words still in use in various places in Albania.

[Orphic_Hymn]

I will take you another time by hand :
From Gk diokesis= province
NO because
1. Province= satrapeia
or
eparhia(in the roman sense)
or
hora(as oppossed to a town)

then dictionary arbitrarely puts another concept:
originally "economy housekeeping"

NO because
2. economy housekeeping=oikonomia
or
oikonomike

considering its {accuracy} not boring enough the dictionary floods the explanation with another word :
from dia: "thoroughly" which in an. greek is

NO, NO, NO
because there is no such thing dia=thorough
3. thoroughly(seen as entirely)= pantos, pante, pantelos
thoroughly(seen as exactly, accurate)=akribos
thorough(seen as complete)=teleios
or
teleos
thorough(seen as entire)=olos

So you learnt a bit of modern Hellenic while shoveling manure and think that you comprehend ancient??

Sorry child but presenting synonyms will get you nowhere in your pathetic attempt of discrediting the cited source.
The comprehensinve Liddle & Scott clarifies:

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c259/panosvls/dioikhsis.jpg

Now do you get it or are you still incapable of comprehending an entry in a dictionary ???


As for your understanding of "thorough".. The word here is NOT an adjective but a preposition. This is why, thorough is identified as the archaic form that when used as a preposition which is exactly what "dia" is in this case, means through (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/through)
See comprehensive Merriam Webster. (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/thorough)


And just to double check... lets look again at Liddle & Scott's Lexicon..

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c259/panosvls/dia.jpg

oh, yeah, Prep. is short for preposition. Now run back to the field and let the big boys talk about history.

[Orphic_Hymn]

Let me ask you another thing.
Who cares where the word Diokese comes from.
Te debate was about the word ZONE.
How come the people of Crete and other Greek regions are using an Albanian word for the God.
ZE or Zon or Zan.
They are all Albanian words still in use in various places in Albania.

You seem to, hence why you unleash your stupidity with all that Albanian propaganda that only a fool would think about believing, let alone posting in an open fora and expecting others to take him seriously.

Actually the debate was about a forgery you presented as some poem allegedly written in kathareuousa.. it then turned to Zone and to be exact your intentional distortion of the text through the selective quotation as seen in your signature.

So since you want to get back to it.. how about answering the question of WHERE is there proof that Zone is Albanian or will you again start throwing insults in Albanian which will only lead to your permanent banning ?

Hoping that the second won't take place.. I'll explain..
IF you re-read and this time try to comprehend the text you'll find that while, Alexander Soutzo..etc note the use of the phrase "Ηκουτε μου Ζωνε θεε", which is obviously directly linked to Zeus and his name, Charles Wachsmuth compares it to the Albanian "per tene zone", NOTHING remotely close to any form of claims of origin.. and how could he when we know of several other dialectic or poetic forms of the God's name such as Dia, Dias, Dies, Dion, Dii, Dan, Dên, Zeus, Zan, Zi, Zên, Zas, Zênos, Zêni, Zêna, Zên?

So again.. where does the book claim that Zone is Albanian in origin?

[kostas68]

Your dictionary ONLINE ETYMOLOGY DICTIONARY sometimes is not even correct because in an. Greek:
to manage a house is oikein and not diokein like your dict. pretends:

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/2231/picture2sx7.png
Hey,wait a minute,who tells that?No offense,but i think you can't give us lessons of ancient Greek.Οικείν means <to reside> , <to dwell> , <to inhabit> and its the infinitive of the verb οικώ=reside,dwell,inhabit,from the noun οίκος=house.We have also in modern Greek the verb κατοικώ = reside,dwell,κατοικία=residence κάτοικος=inhabitant and διοικώ=administrate,διοίκηση=administration.Bu t let's stay in the ancient Greek language.In Euripides tragedy <Helene>,we read that when Teukros, the brother of Ajax who commited suicide during the Trojan war,returned in his homeland Salamis,provoked the wrath of his father Telamon,because he came back alone and was expeled by him.Then,Apollo advised him to settle in Cyprus : <ες γην εναλίαν,Κύπρον,ου μ’ εθέσπισεν οικείν Απόλλων…> = <In a maritime land,Cyprus,where Apollo gave me the oracle to reside...>.He actually settled in Cyprus and founded the city of New Salamis,which exists till nowadays.
We find also in Thucidides history,in the <Archeology> chapter: Τήν γουν Αττικήν εκ του επί πλείστον δια το λεπτόγεων αστασίαστον ούσαν άνθρωποι ώκουν οι αυτοί αιεί. =But in Attica,as it was without civil riots due to the infertile land,were always residing the same people.
The verb ώκουν is the 3rd person of plural of past continuous of οικώ and it's translated as <were residing>.
To understand it better:

Present Past continuous
οικώ =i reside ώκουν=i was residing
οικείς=you reside ώκεις=you was residing
οικεί=he resides ώκει=he was residing
οικούμεν=we reside ώκουμεν=we were residing
οικείτε=you reside ώκειτε=you were residing
οικούσιν=they reside ώκουν=they were residing

It is another word which fits it:
DIOIKESIS=MANAGEMENT= DI QES(alb)=to KNOW how to GOVERN
Let me ask you another thing.
Who cares where the word Diokese comes from.
Te debate was about the word ZONE.
How come the people of Crete and other Greek regions are using an Albanian word for the God.
ZE or Zon or Zan.
They are all Albanian words still in use in various places in Albania.
So you are again implying that the Greek language derives from Albanian?
It seems more possible that the Albanians use Greek words.
If you see in the street two women walking alongside,the one around 50 and the other around 25 and you notice that they are resembling each other,who will you conclude that is the mother and who the daughter?

[helios]

As for your understanding of "thorough"...

My understanding??????

Have a look

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/2231/picture2sx7.png


The word here is NOT an adjective but a preposition. This is why, thorough is identified as the archaic form that when used as a preposition which is exactly what "dia" is in this case, means through (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/through)
See comprehensive Merriam Webster. (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/thorough)


And just to double check... lets look again at Liddle & Scott's Lexicon..

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c259/panosvls/dia.jpg

oh, yeah, Prep. is short for preposition. Now run back to the field and let the big boys talk about history.

Through is a different word from thoroughly.
I know very good that through=dia is a preposition in an. gr.

I AM NOT INTERESTED BEING TAUGHT FOR THINGS I ALREADY KNOW ABOUT.
Let me repeat myself:
Who cares where the word Diokese comes from.
Te debate was about the word ZONE.
How come the people of Crete and other Greek regions are using an Albanian word for the God.
ZE or Zon or Zan.
They are all Albanian words still in use in various places in Albania.

[helios]

Hey,wait a minute,who tells that?No offense,but i think you can't give us lessons of ancient Greek.Οικείν means <to reside> , <to dwell> , <to inhabit> and its the infinitive of the verb οικώ=reside,dwell,inhabit,from the noun οίκος=house.We have also in modern Greek the verb κατοικώ = reside,dwell,κατοικία=residence κάτοικος=inhabitant and διοικώ=administrate,διοίκηση=administration.Bu t let's stay in the ancient Greek language.In Euripides tragedy <Helene>,we read that when Teukros, the brother of Ajax who commited suicide during the Trojan war,returned in his homeland Salamis,provoked the wrath of his father Telamon,because he came back alone and was expeled by him.Then,Apollo advised him to settle in Cyprus : <ες γην εναλίαν,Κύπρον,ου μ’ εθέσπισεν οικείν Απόλλων…> = <In a maritime land,Cyprus,where Apollo gave me the oracle to reside...>.He actually settled in Cyprus and founded the city of New Salamis,which exists till nowadays.
We find also in Thucidides history,in the <Archeology> chapter: Τήν γουν Αττικήν εκ του επί πλείστον δια το λεπτόγεων αστασίαστον ούσαν άνθρωποι ώκουν οι αυτοί αιεί. =But in Attica,as it was without civil riots due to the infertile land,were always residing the same people.
The verb ώκουν is the 3rd person of plural of past continuous of οικώ and it's translated as <were residing>.
To understand it better:

Present Past continuous
οικώ =i reside ώκουν=i was residing
οικείς=you reside ώκεις=you was residing
οικεί=he resides ώκει=he was residing
οικούμεν=we reside ώκουμεν=we were residing
οικείτε=you reside ώκειτε=you were residing
οικούσιν=they reside ώκουν=they were residing



So you are again implying that the Greek language derives from Albanian?
It seems more possible that the Albanians use Greek words.
If you see in the street two women walking alongside,the one around 50 and the other around 25 and you notice that they are resembling each other,who will you conclude that is the mother and who the daughter?

Kostas I am sorry, your post is too long, so I will answer only the last sentence.
We have evidences that the spoken modern greek is a compromise of a variety of some written/spoken languages, most of them with a very obscure evolution and artificially implemented.
So I can speak with a certain conviction that modern greek is a very new language in continous efforts to immitate the ancient languages.

As for Albanian is a pure natural language far from artificial interferences and human "surgeryes".
So If I would use the right comparision:

todays Hellenic----------3 months old language
todays Albanian---------100 years old language

[Draco]

We have evidences that the spoken modern greek is a compromise of a variety of some written/spoken languages, most of them with a very obscure evolution and artificially implemented.
I would love to see these "evidences". :rolleyes:
So I can speak with a certain conviction that modern greek is a very new language in continous efforts to immitate the ancient languages.

As for Albanian is a pure natural language far from artificial interferences and human "surgeryes".
So If I would use the right comparision:

todays Hellenic----------3 months old language
todays Albanian---------100 years old language
LOL By the same token I can point out that contemporary literary Albanian is an artificial politically-motivated fusion of Tosk and Gheg, two mutually unintelligible languages.

[TirAlb]

I would love to see these "evidences". :rolleyes:

LOL By the same token I can point out that contemporary literary Albanian is an artificial politically-motivated fusion of Tosk and Gheg, two mutually unintelligible languages.

Modern literary Albanian is 90% tosk so tha't can't be called a fusion.

[Kritikos]

Modern literary Albanian is 90% tosk so tha't can't be called a fusion.

Modern greek is by 90% stemming from the attic dialect (KOINE),that is why every greek can understand the septuagint gospels without any difficulty.

[Draco]

Modern literary Albanian is 90% tosk so tha't can't be called a fusion.
I have discussed this before here (http://www.macedoniaontheweb.com/forum/epirus-forum/6661-greek-occupation-south-albania-nyt-1913-article-9.html#post69999).

To avoid misunderstandings though, I don't think there is anything "wrong" with any modern language. Albanian, Greek, even the English in which we are writing now, are to the same extent artificial. Literary language means artificial. The only non-artificial languages are those that have not been cultivated (and I'm sure there are plenty of those in the developing world). I'm only going to attack Albanianism when ignorant semi-literate nationalists like helios behave like the pot calling the kettle black.

[Andrew]

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/858/text1df9.png (http://imageshack.us)
[URL=http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=528&i=text1df9.png][IMG]

[Orphic_Hymn]

My understanding??????

Have a look

Through is a different word from thoroughly.
I know very good that through=dia is a preposition in an. gr.
Firstly dia is a preposition of the Hellenic language, ancient and modern, isn't the issue here since its very well used in both forms.

As for the rest... you're still stuck on posting the pic of a dictionary entry which you've proven incapable of understanding..
But just to educate you a bit more (providing you understand the lessons).. lets add the two entry's which are of interest.
thorough and through:

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c259/panosvls/thorough.jpg?t=1214820754


So we find it means "from end to end, from side to side," and that for further reading on the adjective and the preposition, we should look into the entry "through". So what does the "through" entry tell us:

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c259/panosvls/through.jpg?t=1214820791


So we find that the words themselves were: Not clearly differentiated from thorough until early Mod.Eng. but that is totally indifferent to us, since we aren't discussing the meaning of the words themselves but that of the preposition.. and when thorough and NOT "thoroughly" which you've rediculously added is used as a preposition, then it is has the exact same meaning through does. (see Merriam Webster (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/thorough))




I AM NOT INTERESTED BEING TAUGHT FOR THINGS I ALREADY KNOW ABOUT.
Unfortunately you've proven totally ignorant and incapable of being tutored, hence why you continue insisting on posting the same crap over and over again and jumping from one topic to another.

Let me repeat myself:
Who cares where the word Diokese comes from.
Te debate was about the word ZONE.
How come the people of Crete and other Greek regions are using an Albanian word for the God.
ZE or Zon or Zan.
They are all Albanian words still in use in various places in Albania

You repeat yourself :rolleyes:
You care about diocese, hence why once you saw that your stupidity of posting the map got you nothing but ridicule..you began this stupidity of trying to discredit a dictionary entry (which you've proven incompotent of reading and thus comprehending) with your propaganda etymologies that wouldn't stand before a 4th grade elementary school student.

As for the rest.. you claim to know the topic being debated but you avoid giving responces.. I requested that you indicate EXACTLY where the book you nit-picked the quote from, claims that Zone is a word of Albanian origin..
and what did I get?

NOTHING.. more than further celebration of your stupidity.

Firstly, all regions refered to in the abstract in question are found in Crete, so again you prove that your non-existant comprehension of the texts you read leads you to ridiculous conclusions..
As already noted above, the various forms of the names attributed to Zeus, indicate that this is simply a dialectic variation found in Cretan folklore.

But since you'd like to discuss this.. do tell us how Albanian is the source of the God's name when we know that a) its Indoeuropean and b) its well recorded in Linear B' tablets which proves its use prior to the appearance of Illyrians in the region ? (lets not forget that the whole Albanian = Illyrian theory is problematic)

[helios]

Firstly dia is a preposition of the Hellenic language, ancient and modern, isn't the issue here since its very well used in both forms.

As for the rest... you're still stuck on posting the pic of a dictionary entry which you've proven incapable of understanding..
But just to educate you a bit more (providing you understand the lessons).. lets add the two entry's which are of interest.
thorough and through:

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c259/panosvls/thorough.jpg?t=1214820754


So we find it means "from end to end, from side to side," and that for further reading on the adjective and the preposition, we should look into the entry "through". So what does the "through" entry tell us:

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c259/panosvls/through.jpg?t=1214820791


So we find that the words themselves were: Not clearly differentiated from thorough until early Mod.Eng. but that is totally indifferent to us, since we aren't discussing the meaning of the words themselves but that of the preposition.. and when thorough and NOT "thoroughly" which you've rediculously added is used as a preposition, then it is has the exact same meaning through does. (see Merriam Webster (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/thorough))





Unfortunately you've proven totally ignorant and incapable of being tutored, hence why you continue insisting on posting the same crap over and over again and jumping from one topic to another.



You repeat yourself :rolleyes:
You care about diocese, hence why once you saw that your stupidity of posting the map got you nothing but ridicule..you began this stupidity of trying to discredit a dictionary entry (which you've proven incompotent of reading and thus comprehending) with your propaganda etymologies that wouldn't stand before a 4th grade elementary school student.

As for the rest.. you claim to know the topic being debated but you avoid giving responces.. I requested that you indicate EXACTLY where the book you nit-picked the quote from, claims that Zone is a word of Albanian origin..
and what did I get?

NOTHING.. more than further celebration of your stupidity.

Firstly, all regions refered to in the abstract in question are found in Crete, so again you prove that your non-existant comprehension of the texts you read leads you to ridiculous conclusions..
As already noted above, the various forms of the names attributed to Zeus, indicate that this is simply a dialectic variation found in Cretan folklore.

But since you'd like to discuss this.. do tell us how Albanian is the source of the God's name when we know that a) its Indoeuropean and b) its well recorded in Linear B' tablets which proves its use prior to the appearance of Illyrians in the region ? (lets not forget that the whole Albanian = Illyrian theory is problematic)

Like I said I dont care about Diokese.
Second I dont intend to read your whole pathetic post because is too much desperate talking which is addressed to me but is just a trying to autoconvince yourself, your stuborn brainwashed head.
Third I dont need to bring books to show that the word ZON and ZE and ZAN and much more are Albanian ones. Those world are still alive, still in use, still showing the same thing like 4000 years ago and more.

[helios]

Unfortunately you've proven totally ignorant and incapable of being tutored, hence why you continue insisting on posting the same crap over and over again and jumping from one topic to another.


While you with your offensive way , offending every single post have shown yourself being a brainwashed and pathetic person, who is using all dirty tactics since the fair debate showed in ALL CASES him being wrong.


..jumping from one topic to another

ha ha ha ha look who is talking

[Orphic_Hymn]

Like I said I dont care about Diokese.
Second I dont intend to read your whole pathetic post because is too much desperate talking which is addressed to me but is just a trying to autoconvince yourself, your stuborn brainwashed head.
Third I dont need to bring books to show that the word ZON and ZE and ZAN and much more are Albanian. Those world are still alive, still in use, still showing the same thing like 4000 years ago and more.


Yeah I've noticed that you run when your absurd claims are trashed.. so I'll let you cry about diocese and your map alone.

Secondly your avoidance to address the evident with some form of academic paper simply indicates the magnitude of propaganda you've had shoved into that head of yours. Its not that you don't need, but that you CAN NOT provide us with anything that would support your drivel of a 4000yr old history let alone, a language of that age. Simply because beside the noted problems in the Albanian-Illyrian theory, there were no Illyrians (remember those you claim descendance from) in the region 4000yrs ago, not to neglect to mention that they were neither in the region during the time that the first reference to him in Linear B' tablets appears.

[helios]

Yeah I've noticed that you run when your absurd claims are trashed.. so I'll let you cry about diocese and your map alone.

Secondly your avoidance to address the evident with some form of academic paper simply indicates the magnitude of propaganda you've had shoved into that head of yours. Its not that you don't need, but that you CAN NOT provide us with anything that would support your drivel of a 4000yr old history let alone, a language of that age. Simply because beside the noted problems in the Albanian-Illyrian theory, there were no Illyrians (remember those you claim descendance from) in the region 4000yrs ago, not to neglect to mention that they were neither in the region during the time that the first reference to him in Linear B' tablets appears.

There is no propaganda in Albania. It has never been. Some people do in a spontaneous way. Nothing organised, nothing financed, nothing at all.
While look at you guys, oh my god. The network of propaganda is perfect.

[Draco]

Watching helios's participation here, I feel I must admit that I never knew there were so many ways to dodge providing proper academic references.

[Foti66]

There is not propaganda in Albania. It has never been. Some people do in a spontaneous way. Nothing organised, nothing financed, nothing at all.
While look at you guys, oh my god. The network of propaganda is perfect.

Someone please ban this troll! Friend you are talking nonsense! enough!

[helios]

Someone please ban this troll! Friend you are talking nonsense! enough!

Failers.

[Foti66]

Failers.

:huh: What is a failer?

[helios]

:huh: What is a failer?

It is a soft way saying losers...

[Draco]

It is a soft way saying losers...
Have you looked in the mirror recently, my unorthodox weekend-historian/linguist friend? :D

[Foti66]

It is a soft way saying losers...

That's not nice. You are also breaking another rule of the forum. No name calling.

[Orphic_Hymn]

There is no propaganda in Albania. It has never been. Some people do in a spontaneous way. Nothing organised, nothing financed, nothing at all.
While look at you guys, oh my god. The network of propaganda is perfect.

Seems like you've been out of Albania for some time..You can read your "scholar's" official thesis (as taught in the Uni of Korce) on the etymology of the names Thermopyles and Athens here (http://www.macedoniaontheweb.com/forum/epirus-forum/2292-history-according-albanian-specialists.html#post20584).

[helios]

Seems like you've been out of Albania for some time..You can read your "scholar's" official thesis (as taught in the Uni of Korce) on the etymology of the names Thermopyles and Athens here (http://www.macedoniaontheweb.com/forum/epirus-forum/2292-history-according-albanian-specialists.html#post20584).

He is just an individual. No participation in political-ideological-{patriotic} associations.
Anyone, especially the scholars have the right to express their opinions, just you guys do in this forum.

[kostas68]

There is no propaganda in Albania. It has never been. Some people do in a spontaneous way
Some people eh?...like you!
Γλώττα λανθάνουσα τ΄αληθή λέγει=A tongue speaking by mistake says the truth.

[helios]

Some people eh?...like you!
Γλώττα λανθάνουσα τ΄αληθή λέγει=A tongue speaking by mistake says the truth.

Kosta, at least together we have had a good debate, far from offences so lets follow this good track.

[Orphic_Hymn]

He is just an individual. No participation in political-ideological-{patriotic} associations.
Anyone, especially the scholars have the right to express their opinions, just you guys do in this forum.

Well his name isn't documented so you can't say if he is or isn't. But the point is that this individual is teaching your youth, he's the author of a piece of trash (who the brainwashed fool telling the story, considers a masterpiece) that makes totally absurd historic claims and to top it all off, he is also considered a highly esteemed prof. in one of your major Unis.

[Andrew]

Someone please ban this troll! Friend you are talking nonsense! enough!

Although his irrationality is intolerable (:cussing::hotpants:) I say keep him as a sample of what a Greek FORUMer has to put up every day ....!!!

He probalby thinks that the Indoeuropeans are ...Pakistans working in Europe
...and that haplogroups are a basket of apples !!!

I only have to admit that Orphic Hymn is a real Heroe , since he still answers to "that thing".

I'm curius to have his brain NMR or PET scanned ...to search for schizoid hypofrontality !!

[Orphic_Hymn]

I only have to admit that Orphic Hymn is a real Heroe , since he still answers to "that thing".

No re Andrew, no hero here, just a sucker for individuals that eventually entertain us all with the propaganda stories they've been brought up with.

[helios]

Well his name isn't documented so you can't say if he is or isn't. But the point is that this individual is teaching your youth, he's the author of a piece of trash (who the brainwashed fool telling the story, considers a masterpiece) that makes totally absurd historic claims and to top it all off, he is also considered a highly esteemed prof. in one of your major Unis.

What are you talking about?
Bellushi is a very respected author and if he teachs us its nothing wrong with this.

[Kritikos]

Stating that there has never been any state sponsored propaganda in an ex communist country (communism which lasted over 40 years) is a contradiction in itself.;)

[Orphic_Hymn]

What are you talking about?
Bellushi is a very respected author and if he teachs us its nothing wrong with this.

I don't care about Antonio Bellusci that under the guise of a priest spreads his propaganda and amaturistic etymologies for the ignorant..its their choice to pay to buy and read his trash..
I'm clearly talking about the second part which you neglected to read, the quote from Monk Michail: "Vergina and Albanian" Armos Publications 1999, p. 162-163 that speaks about some so-called prof.

[helios]

I don't care about Antonio Bellusci that under the guise of a priest spreads his propaganda and amaturistic etymologies for the ignorant..its their choice to pay to buy and read his trash..
I'm clearly talking about the second part which you neglected to read, the quote from Monk Michail: "Vergina and Albanian" Armos Publications 1999, p. 162-163 that speaks about some so-called prof.

Edited by Orphic_Hymn:
Do you have to add anything worth our time. YES OR NO?

[Bardylis]

There is no country in the world without ethnic minorities....
Does Greece have such minorities....???
If yes,which are them????

[chicagogeorge]

There is no country in the world without ethnic minorities....
Does Greece have such minorities....???
If yes,which are them????

Muslims in Thrace, that have hundreds of operating Mosques, and dozens of Turkish language schools sponsored by the Greek gov. Not to mention 1 million immigrants from all over the Balkans, Middle East, and North Africa, which includes some 500,000 ethnic Albanians.


Albania according to CIA world fact book in 1993, had a population of 3.3 million of which 8% were ethnic Greeks, or 264,000.


http://permanent.access.gpo.gov/lps35389/1993/wf940002.txt

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/2991/1993ciadatagreeksinalbabg7.jpg

Of course today, at least half of the ethnic Greeks now reside in Greece. Actually, I currently teach two Greek kids from southern Albania here in Chicago.

[Steffi]

Hey There!
My name is Steffi and I am glad to be here with all of you

[akritas]

Hey There!
My name is Steffi and I am glad to be here with all of you
Can anyone ban this spammer ?
TB ?

[chicagogeorge]

I was just rereading the post of this thread and realized that the forumer Helios claims that ALbanian is closer to ancient Greek and modern Greek is:huh:

Funny, linguists point out that there are actually few Greek loanwords in Albanian.. though there are more Latin ones....

http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/3760/albanianlanguageqy2.jpg


http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/1184/albanianlanguage2fx5.jpg

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/8486/albanianlanguage3ta6.jpg