The <Macedonians> in 1854 were Bulgarians

[kostas68]

I'll continue the quoting of excerpts from the works of foreign travelers who visited Macedonia in past centuries and today we have the <Handbook for travellers in Greece:describing the Ionian islands,the kingdom of Greece,the islands of the Aegean Sea with Albania,Thessaly and Macedonia>,published in London,1854,by John Murray.His first trip to Macedonia started from Larisa,he came across the valey of Tempe,arrived in Thessaloniki and continued to Mt Athos in Halkidiki.In the relevant pages which i quote(413,414,415,416,418)
Murray doesn't tell us something new.The presence of Greek villages in Macedonia on the road from Larisa to Thessaloniki and in Halkidiki,the ancient Hellenic ruins,the population of Thessaloniki,which is consisted by Turks,Greeks and Jews(no mention of ethnic <Macedonians>),are well known by the descriptions of other foreign travellers of the same era.
There is also mentioned by Murray the Greek revolution of 1821 in Macedonia,under the leadership of my fellow villager Emmanouil Papas.
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As i was thinking that this book wasn't worthy to be qoted,i found the most interesting page of it,430:

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According to John Murray,the inhabitants of Monastir were Turks(only officials),Bulgarian,Greeks,Jews and a few Albanians.And if you didn't get it,dear Skopians,he says below: <the peasantry in the northern districts of Macedonia are chiefly of Bulgarian race and language,though they belong to the Greek church>.
And notice that we are talking about 1854,that means 16 years before the establishment of the Bulgarian Exarchate in 1870.Thus,if there were any ethnic <Macedonians>,they couldn't be exarchists and confused with the Bulgarians.They would be mentioned as <Macedonians> who belong to the Greek church,as the Bulgarians are mentioned.How can you explain that the desendands of those who were Bulgarians in 1854 consider today themselves <Macedonians> descending from Alexander?

[kostas68]

Another English traveller in Balkans of middle 19th century and look at his book: <Travels in European Turkey in 1850,through Bosnia,Servia,Bulgaria,Macedonia,Thrace,Albania and Epirus with a visit to Greece and the Ionian islands> by Edmund Spencer.
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Another foreigner who didn't find any ethnic <Macedonians> in Macedonia and especially in Skopia(Uskiub) he found only Albanians(Arnaouts),Bulgarians,Jews,Vlachs(Zinzars ),Greeks,Armenians and Serbs!In 1850,20 years before the Bulgarian Exarchate!What can you tell now Skopians?Where were the <Makedontsi> hidden?Wasn't right this Bulgarian below?
<In 1888 Kuzman Shapkarev writes to Marin Drinov with regard to the usage of the words Macedonian and Bulgarian:
"But even stranger is the name Macedontsi, which was imposed on us only 10 to 15 years ago by outsiders, and not as something by our own intellectuals... Yet the people in Macedonia know nothing of that ancient name, reintroduced today with a cunning aim on the one hand and a stupid one on the other. They know the older word: Bugari, although mispronounced: they have even adopted it as peculiarly theirs, inapplicable to other Bulgarians">.
When i posted this quote 2 weeks ago during a debate with a Scopian,he answered:<Bulgarian propaganda>.Really?And what were Edmund Spencer and John Murray who couldn't find back in 1850 one single ethnic <Macedonian> in your country but only Bulgarians,Serbs,Albanians,Vlachs,Jews,even Greeks?Were they Bulgarian propagandists too?And by the way,what happened to those Greeks of Skopia?What have you done to them and you dare to claim about genocides?
Tommorow i'll post the rest.Spencer visited Monastir,Ohrid and Krusevo and i'm sure he had mentioned the Greeks who lived there.

[kostas68]

Let's continue with this wonderfull book from mr.Edmund Spencer.We saw yesterday that he visited Scopje in 1850 and didn't find any ethnic <Makedontsi>,only Bulgarians,Albanians,Jews,Serbs,Turks,Greeks and Vlachs.
From Scopia he went southwards to Monastir(Bitola) and Ohrid.During his route,he found <one of these old paved roads of the Macedonian(don't delight,dear Scopians,he didn't mean you) kings,which the inhabitants designate Monopatia,to distinguish it from those broad enough for a chariot,which they term Vasiliki Strata.So,he found people who called the roads by Greek names(Monopatia=footpaths,vasiliki strata=royal road).
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A few days later,he visited the church of the village Karasou,where he found that <with the exception of a few Greeks and Zinzars(Vlachs),the congregation consisted of Bulgarians>.Again no ethnic <Macedonians>,only Bulgarians and a few Greeks.Perhaps the <Macedonian> inhabitants of this village were muslims and he couldn't find them in a christian church.
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Finally he reached Monastir(Bitola).What the hell,he must find somewhere ethnic <Macedonians>!He is in the heart of Macedonia!What ethnicities he mentions? Spanish Jews,Armenians,Zinzars(Vlachs),Greeks(how the hell he finds Greeks everywhere?),a few Osmanli(Turks),Arnouts(Albanians) and Rayahs.That must be a joke!No,a terrible nightmare!Someone had abducted the <Macedonians> and therefore they weren't nowhere!Maybe the alliens,maybe David Copperfield,maybe....
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But,wait a moment!What are these Rayahs?Ah,that's it!He means probably the ethnic <Macedonians> with the term <Rayah>.But,alas,we see in page 30 that the Rayahs are <a mixed race of Greeks,Bulgarians and Serbians>.
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Our last hope to find any <Macedonian> is in Ohrid.What found he there?
<The population consists of a few thousand christians of the Latin and the Greek churches.The Greeks tell us that Ahrid was founded by Cadmus...>
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Without comments...

[Nikolaz]

Excellent post :D