More CRAP from Maknews and STEFOV(ski)

[Xiotis]

Have you guys seen this crap yet?

http://www.maknews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1497

What is amusing is that they can apply the exact same questions with far more validity about their own 'nation' whose prominent members and national heroes referred to themselves as BULGARIANs less than 100 years ago.This is just another tactic those crackpot nationalists use: instead of trying to validate their own ludicrous nationalist theories they attack everything Greek thinking that this will somehow validate their crackpot theory of a continuous 'Macedonian' ethnicity since the days of Alexander. Unfortunately for them NOBODY saw any 'ethnic Macedonians' as early as the turn of last century. Now this nation of ex-bulgars wants to convince us that every reference to 'Macedonian' or 'Macedonia' throughout history in-fact refers to their 'nation'. It is truly laughable.

When I get time Ill address some of the questions. I'm sure there are others in here with more to say about this crap. :lol:

[akritas]

Yes I have read it. Don't give more attention in theirs crops.
BTW we have open a thread that consern the Skopjan quotes in the web.

Read and have fun
F.Y.R.O.M's best one-liners, gems: post here (http://www.macedoniaontheweb.com/forum/anti-greek-macedonia-propaganda/627-f-y-r-o-ms-best-one-liners-gems-post-here.html)

[admin]

$10,000 to prove the unprovable?! :lol:

These guys are rediculous...

For example:
:lol::lol:

"With the exception of very few who specialize in the study of ancient languages, most Greeks cannot read, write nor understand the ancient languages spoken by some natives of the Ancient City States." :huh:
http://www.macedoniaontheweb.com/macedonia-multimedia/data/506/Pellatab.jpg
Greek is my second language and I can still read the Pella Katadesmos which is from PELLA ancient Macedonia Greece....

for example:

"ΩΝ ΚΑΙ ΧΗΡΑΝ ΚΑΙ ΠΑΡΘΕΝΩΝ ΜΑΛΙΣΤΑ"

translated PERFECTLY into MODERN Greek as

[women] widows (XHPAN) and virgins (PARTHENON) indeed :rolleyes: ....exactly the meaning over 2400 years after the fact

[PhiliptheUniterchaeronea]

The amusing thing is, I would have old Risto try and match wits with Orphic, Akritas, Perseas, Big Takis and others and laugh. Ella re Christo, afise ta malakeeehs, time to get a life. If you want to go toe to toe, I have my champions, what do you have? Oh ya, we have history, culture, truth and even Church documents. I reach out to you, grow up. God help us if you are actually a Greek, if you are, come home. Metaxas fucked up. He may have been good is some ways, but I am mad as hell in the way he treated our Greeks up north.

[Orphic_Hymn]

I find it really hard not to be tempted to claim that 10 grand. I actually find it even harder not to match his 10 and raise it another 40 (just in case little Risto is ignorant in math as he is in history 10+40=50) if he could address the issues related to his pseudo-ethnicity seen in these fora..

My only doubt is if he's good for the 10 and will eventually pay up...

[Orphic_Hymn]

Lets make some money....



1)
In order to address this statement, one must first define the meaning of nation. If we look into the word's actual meaning as defined by one of the most comprehensive dictionaries, a dictionary continuously sited by the Encyclopedia Britannica, the Merriam-Webster Dictionary... then we find :

Main Entry: na·tion
Pronunciation: 'nA-sh&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English nacioun, from Middle French nation, from Latin nation-, natio birth, race, nation, from nasci to be born; akin to Latin gignere to beget -- more at KIN
1 a (1) : NATIONALITY 5a (2) : a politically organized nationality (3) : a non-Jewish nationality <why do the nations conspire -- Psalms 2:1 (Revised Standard Version)> b : a community of people composed of one or more nationalities and possessing a more or less defined territory and government c : a territorial division containing a body of people of one or more nationalities and usually characterized by relatively large size and independent status
2 archaic : GROUP, AGGREGATION
3 : a tribe or federation of tribes (as of American Indians)


So as we all see, unfortunately for little Risto and his sidekicks. Accoding to definition 3
a tribe or federation of tribes (as of American Indians), the ancient Hellinic city-states, DO define a nation.



2)
We must keep in mind that when addressing the Byzantine period of Hellas, so we are talking about a theocratic empire where the use of the terms Hellas and Hellinas were strictly forbidden since they reminded people of their pagan past.
Hence we see the damnations against ancient Hellas, Hellines and Hellinic ideals/teachings coined during the 7th Ecumenical Counsil of 787AD and read on every Orthodox Sunday.

Of course little Risto is ignorant of history and obviously driven from personal intollerance and the feeling of inferiority to the greatness of this civilization has never once read a Byzantine text in his meaningless little life.
Had he attempted to open texts like those of Konstantine Porphyrogennitos, he would have known that he wrote of the Slavic attacks against the Hellines (kata ton Graikon), had he read Anna Komnene's 'Alexiad' he would have known that she continuously reffers to Hellines.
We could also mention George Gemistos Plethon, Michael Psellos, Cassiani, Maximus Mazaris, Michael Attaliatis...etc all mentioning the Hellinic race.


3)
Little Risto is obviously refering to his limited knowledge of the Hellines and the Hellinic language. The mere suggestion of Hellines not comprehending the archaic form of their language is in total contradiction to what renouned linguists like Brian E. Newton, Professor Emeritus of Linguistics of the Simon Fraser University have concluded.

Brian E. Newton, has written :

Greece & Rome, 2nd Ser., Vol. 7, No. 2. (Oct., 1960), p. 124

"Perhaps the most amazing thing about Greek is that in the period over which our written records extend—in over three millennia, since the decipherment of Linear B—it has changed so little. Whereas a student of Latin would be ill-equipped to read a modern Italian newspaper, a person with a good working knowledge of classical Greek would not only find an Athenian newspaper intelligible for the most part, but would be amazed at the remarkable likenesses between the ancient and the modern languages. For the vocabulary of a Greek newspaper is probably 99 per cent, of classical origin and modern Greek has retained much of the cumbersome grammar of the ancient language—and ancient Greek has got a cumbersome grammar, when we consider that its verb has over four hundred forms as compared to sixty or so in French and two in Afrikaans. "



4)
Obviously little Risto's knowledge is limited to his propaganda teachings. Yet another non-existant argument that simply indicates the total ignorance of the individual in question. I strongly suggest he opens a copy of the Bible and reads, Corinthians, Mark, Luke, John, the Acts (16 and 21), Romans, Galatians, Colossians, Revelation...etc
He will there find that the Hellines are continuously mentioned.



5)
Obviously due to his ignorance little Risto ignores Hesiod's "Works and Days" 4.30 where he makes reference to the "whole race of the Hellenes", we could also mention Homer's Iliad, Herodotus, Thucydides, Sophocles, Apollodorus... and an endless list of others that made use of the term Hellines when discribing the population of these lands.



6)
Difference seen in patron gods/dieties deoes not indicate difference in religion. Archeologic finds all over Hellas indicate that while Athens for example was under the patronage of Athena, all other Gods/dieties were worshipped as proven by various temples unearthed. While from polis to polis we may find alterations in customs and festivals, they all shared common festivals and customs as proven by the Olympics that were nothing more than a common Hellinic religious event.


7)
The author of this trash has obviously adopted the deluted belief that Koine is a different language to the Hellinic read in Homeric texts. While Koine was simplified and depicts a partial foreign influence (seen in loaned words) under no condition does it constitute a different language, but simply an evolutionary stage.

This besides being an outstanding statement that anyone with limited to absolutely no linguistic schooling can refute, is proven to be utter trash by simply looking through the ancient Hellinic plays of Sophocles, Euripides, Aeschylus..etc played and understood all over Hellas prior to the formation of Koine.



On the question of how a newly formed country may make claims that the members of the pseudo-ethnicity our northern neighbors demand to bear.


1)
Firstly the civilizations in question were never simply defined as 'ancient' but were always define by the combination of the words 'ancient' and 'Hellinic' (Greek for those that prefer the Latinization that has prevailed internationally).
But how is a civilization defined. Civilizations when using the term to define cultural identities are defined as common race, language, religion and culture. This is what our little Risto ignores, the continuation of cultre, language, race and customs seen in Hellas today, just as they have been seen for thousands of years...


2)
Hellinic literature simply because it was produced by the great Hellinic minds and written in the magnificent Hellinic language. Had the Bulgaro-Slavic dialect our little Risto speaks, been the direct descendant of that magnificent language. Then he'd be able to title it Literature of the Bulgaro-Slavic idiom. Unfortunately for him, the Bulgaro-Slavic idiom had no written form prior to the 10th century.



3)
As explained above, we're talking about the very same language spoken over 3600yrs ago. Simple logic as any liguist will agree, is that for a spoken language to develop its written form, a process of several centuries is needed. So its obvious that for over 4000yrs (rough estimate) the Hellinic language may have underwent evolution but shows a stricking similarity to that of Linear B' texts.



4)
I honestly have no idea what he's stating here.
If someone cares to explain we just might get a nice Risto donation to the site...
That is if his cheap ass pays up... :lol: :lol: :lol:

[akritas]

Gyes I think that we give to much attention in the Skopjan propaganda. There are many Historical events that proof that this artificial state is nothing that a continuity of the known Communist propaganda. The majority of you I know that you didn’t live in the known as Cold War Era as I Did or the Skopjan Stefou also did.
They want to prove if we are as nation before the 19 the cent.
But never explain to us when as nation started to mention in the ancient inscriptions. The baptized the Samuel as Macedonian when is known that he was Bulgarian.
They never explain why the Jovan Vladislav, was the King of the supposing Macedonian State called him self as BULGARIAN EMPEROR.

The following inscription found in the Monastirion (Bitola) at 1956 and they translated only some quotes that mention:
“This inscription was engraved from the Jovan Vladislav,Bulgarian Emperor son of Aaron(brother of Samuil)”

“this castle rebuild for the save and the life of the Bulgarians”

Who told that:
J.Zaiminov,H. Lunt,R. Mathiesen. The only disagreement is the chronology of the inscription. The first said that estimated in 11 cent when the latter’s in 13 cent. Bur is known that the Skopjans never allowed Greeks or Bulgarians in orders to make any archaeological corporation in theirs state.


http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/3224/bitolainscription7mt.jpg




BTW I am ready for the Challenge Dear Skopjans and Looser Stefou. I hope the Greeks will not be the propagandistic inventions of Stefou and Maknews like Australian-Greek Katerina or the Canadian-Greek Ilir.

[Amarantos]

2)
...Had the Bulgaro-Slavic dialect our little Risto speaks, been the direct descendant of that magnificent language. Then he'd be able to title it Literature of the Bulgaro-Slavic idiom. Unfortunately for him, the Bulgaro-Slavic idiom had no written form prior to the 10th century.



I have read in the past that the Bulgaro-slavic idiom spoken in fyrom has been baptised "macedonian" in May 1945,its first grammar was published in 1952 and its first dictionary in 1961.
The Greek slavophones,according to my info,never used it as a written language,proof that it is exactly an idiom and nothing more.

Metaxas fucked up. He may have been good is some ways, but I am mad as hell in the way he treated our Greeks up north.
First of all,i'd like to say that i'm against all kinds of totalitarianism.Regarding Metaxas regime,i believe that one should consider it in relation with that particular historical period.Greece wasn't the only country where dictatorship ruled.(It surely was the one that fought for the freedom of all the people.)All types of government of that era used the same practises of Metaxas,even in a more severe or unfair way.So it's wrong concentrate the attention only to Greece.We know others did worst before and during WW2.The yugoslavian communists continued to do so after the war's end.





On our argument now.It would be interesting:lol: listen to them responding to the same questions for their "country","nation" etc.I guess the thread "fyrom one-liners.." would become endless.

As far as the maksh$t site is concerned,i have the sense that it is a propaganda tool that deceives not only the foolish but the same fyromians too.Some of its members try for example to present Macedonia(the "aegean" one as they call it)in such a way from the social,linguistic point of view,that poor fyromians would believe it's the same world with fyromland.:lol: :lol:
I almost feel sympathy for the ingenuous victims they make.