There Are No Minorities in Greece, Bishop of Northern Greece Says

[Makedonia25]

There Are No Minorities in Greece, Bishop of Northern Greece Says

20 May 2006 | 16:00 | FOCUS News Agency



Kozani. As a Bishop of Northern Greece I am appalled by what Macedonia’s political leaders say and write, the Bishop of Kozani and of Northern Greece Pavlos told the official radio station of the Greek Orthodox Church.
“Only Greeks live in the geographical region of Macedonia in Greece, we do not have any minorities here, neither do we admit the presence of such and this is not because we must say so but because there aren’t any,” Pavlos stated.
He sent the following message to the neighboring country: “If Macedonia wants to become a part of the Balkans and Europe it must limit itself to its own people. It must ignore everything that tampers with history and causes tension”.

[Tsontos]

Two points:

1) Why the fuck does the title say "no minorities in Greece" when the guy only says "northern Greece" (referring to the ouranio to3o scum)

2) Why the fuck are they quoting and getting a story from a bishop on a recent diplomatic rift?


agendas agendas..

[Amyntas]

why the fuck is he calling fyrom "macedonia"?????

[akritas]

There is not a title in Church that call Bishop of Northern Greece!!!
I said it many times.Don't trust Skopjans or Bulgarians news agencies.Partcularly the latter. Are full of un-accuracies

[Tsontos]

why the fuck is he calling fyrom "macedonia"?????

He would have said ta skopia. but this is full of a lot of bullshit and is a severaly doctored 'news' article


@ akritas, another reason for agendas:angry:

[Donsiku]

There are no minors in North Greece because the Greeks have done thier ethnics cleansing long time ago at 1913 where they murdered and exterematied the Bulgarians which are Macedonians.

[akritas]

There are no minors in North Greece because the Greeks have done thier ethnics cleansing long time ago at 1913 where they murdered and exterematied the Bulgarians which are Macedonians.
As the Bulgars done the same think in Thrace. The disingenuous and selective memory in the history is a bad auspice of the history.And you obviously you have this con.

[pankration]

So now the Bulgarians are the true Macedonians. I guess the Serbs and the Albanians don't count. What's next...the Chinese are the true Macedonians? Like the Skopjeans you shame your own history, culture and people every time you rant. By claiming someone else's ethnicity as your own you are stating that you are embarassed at being Bulgarian. I wonder how your countrymen feel about these insecurities you parade in the name of nationalism.

[Robert]

The disingenuous and selective memory in the history is a bad auspice of the history. And you obviously you have this con.

You don't say! Until the 1980s, Greeks did not even want to say the word Macedonia because they knew it is a territory they occupied by force in 1913 for the first time in History!!! The Greeks killed or expelled great many Macedonians, and treated mercilessly those who stayed. Lest you forget, those who spoke even a word of Macedonian in their homes to their children were beaten and forece-fed castor oil.

Even after all that, today there still are Macedonians in the "Aegean" part of Macedonia (rulled by Greece). This fact is internationally recognized and can not be altered neither by racist Greek policies, nor by propaganda.

"Although ethnic Macedonians in northern Greece make up large minority with their own language and culture, their internationally recognized human rights and even their existence are vigorously denied by the Greek government. Free expression is restricted; several Macedonians have been persecuted and convicted for their peaceful expression of their views. Moreover, ethnic Macedonians are discriminated against by the government's failure to permit the teaching of the Macedonian language. And ethnic Macedonians, particularly rights activists, are harassed by the government - followed and threatened by the security forces - and subjected to economic and social pressure resulting from this harassment. All of these actions have led to a marked climate of fear in which a large number of ethnic Macedonians are reluctant to assert their Macedonian identity or to express their views openly. Ultimately, the government is pursuing every avenue to deny the Macedonians of Greece their ethnic identity."

Denying Ethnic Identity - Macedonians of Greece, Human Rights Watch, New York, 1994.

[akritas]

Robert Welcome :)
Greeks always said and say the word Macedonia. You will find a lot of threads that proove it.

Now as about you comment and the Human Rights Watch
I would like if you have the sourse of this article.Would be nice who write this.

http://hrw.org/doc/?t=europe_pub&c=greece

If this Slavmacedonians were big in numbers and consists minority why in the last elections the partie the represent them(Uranio Toxo) took only 6.176 votes and only 2000 in the Macedonia ?

http://ekloges.ypes.gr/en/

[Tsontos]

those who spoke even a word of Macedonian in their homes to their children were beaten and forece-fed castor oil.


Thats not true they wanted to be fed castor oil:nono: :laugh:

You don't say! Until the 1980s, Greeks did not even want to say the word Macedonia because they knew it is a territory they occupied by force in 1913 for the first time in History!!!

Damn fucking straight we occupied it by force. You dont win balkan wars with salad. As for the most stupidly contrived skopjian lie about the Greek outlawing of the word Macedonia:


cambridge atlas from 1913 clearly referring only to Greek Macedonia as Macedonia:

http://www.hri.org/Martis/contents/doc23.html


1949 national geographic:


http://www.hri.org/Martis/contents/doc8.html



The building of the Society of Macedonian Studies founded in 1934. You do not need to know Greek to read the word in the middle: Makedonikwn=Macedonian

http://www.macedonian-heritage.gr/HellenicMacedonia/media/original/b443a.jpg

The Charter of the Commune of Melenikos of 1813. Fifth line from the top it mentions Melenikos is in Macedonia.

http://www.macedonian-heritage.gr/HellenicMacedonia/media/original/a312a.jpg


Here is a 1962 london times article referring to Greek Macedonia:

http://www.macedoniaontheweb.com/wiki/images/6/6e/Yugoslavs_claim_minority.JPG

1957:

http://www.macedoniaontheweb.com/wiki/images/0/09/Notaproblem.JPG



Apart from that Makedoniko Havla has been around for about 4 decades longer than your country. Makedonikos was in the Greek first division in the 1930s and there has existed a Greek province called Macedonia since 1913 as was just demonstrated.

[PhiliptheUniterchaeronea]

Hi Robert, welcome to our site. As for your comment about Macedonia never being spoken before 1980, well I don't know your source, but they should changedwhat they wrote because it has no credibility. I think our other members here have handled showing you some examples of this, but such false information being thrown out there in the real and cyber world is downright unethical and dangerous. However, I do not think you would do that unpurpose, but please question your sources, or let me do it if you give the source to me.

[Robert]

Robert Welcome :)
Greeks always said and say the word Macedonia. You will find a lot of threads that proove it.

Now as about you comment and the Human Rights Watch
I would like if you have the sourse of this article.Would be nice who write this.

http://hrw.org/doc/?t=europe_pub&c=greece

If this Slavmacedonians were big in numbers and consists minority why in the last elections the partie the represent them(Uranio Toxo) took only 6.176 votes and only 2000 in the Macedonia ?

http://ekloges.ypes.gr/en/


Strange, I never felt so welcomed in my life! ;)

As far as I know, the brochure was written by Ms. Lois Whitman. The report stated in no uncertain terms that there is a Macedonian minorty in Greece - which is a true statement.

The politics of the Greek government aside, I never understood why you as people collectively fall into denial about the above statement?! We are aware that you won in the late 1940s, and that you expelled or generally assimilated whatever Macedonian population was left there. Macedonia(ns) in the 1990s were no threat to Greece, unlike some others to the West. Yet, you deny and repress the remaining Macedonians in Aegean Macedonia with such fanaticism that it rivals some less "prestigeous" countries. Why is that?

"PhiliptheUniterchaeronea": the Greek government rarely used the word "Macedonia" in the past, do ask some older and more objective Greek to check, but refereed mostly to "Northern Greece". I did not say they outlawed the word, but there were aware of potential issues. As you know Macedonia was parittioned in 1913 after two very bloody wars which followed periods of many uprisings and outright terror. The greatest concern your government had, I suspect, was the fact that many Macedonians could claim their land if they return. Which is why your government made sure noone was allowed back and they passed laws which specified that only "Greeks by race" can have certain priviledges, etc.

[HellenicPride]

You don't say! Until the 1980s, Greeks did not even want to say the word Macedonia because they knew it is a territory they occupied by force in 1913 for the first time in History!!! The Greeks killed or expelled great many Macedonians, and treated mercilessly those who stayed. Lest you forget, those who spoke even a word of Macedonian in their homes to their children were beaten and forece-fed castor oil.

Even after all that, today there still are Macedonians in the "Aegean" part of Macedonia (rulled by Greece). This fact is internationally recognized and can not be altered neither by racist Greek policies, nor by propaganda.

"Although ethnic Macedonians in northern Greece make up large minority with their own language and culture, their internationally recognized human rights and even their existence are vigorously denied by the Greek government. Free expression is restricted; several Macedonians have been persecuted and convicted for their peaceful expression of their views. Moreover, ethnic Macedonians are discriminated against by the government's failure to permit the teaching of the Macedonian language. And ethnic Macedonians, particularly rights activists, are harassed by the government - followed and threatened by the security forces - and subjected to economic and social pressure resulting from this harassment. All of these actions have led to a marked climate of fear in which a large number of ethnic Macedonians are reluctant to assert their Macedonian identity or to express their views openly. Ultimately, the government is pursuing every avenue to deny the Macedonians of Greece their ethnic identity."

Denying Ethnic Identity - Macedonians of Greece, Human Rights Watch, New York, 1994.

Are you on drugs? What kind of propaganda have they been teaching you Robert give me a break. The sooner you understand that you are not Macedonian and accept the fact that you are either Bulgarian, Serbian or Albanian then only then will you be at peace. You come on here preaching this nonsense when you really dont have the slightest clue.

To the moderators why is he allowed to use the term Macedonian to describe his people who are in fact Slavs and have nothing to do with Macedonia. They are not even recognized as Macedonia or Macedonian. :nono:

[Amarantos]

Until the 1980s, Greeks did not even want to say the word Macedonia because they knew it is a territory they occupied by force in 1913 for the first time in History!!!
Who teaches you these things!?!Macedonia was liberated by the Greek Army on 1913.If Macedonia wasn't inhabited by Greeks = persons that consider themselves greek,independently of the language 4 example of same of them,all military operations would have failed.Common sence.The people of macedonia welcomed the Hellenic Army as liberator.

[admin]

"PhiliptheUniterchaeronea": the Greek government rarely used the word "Macedonia" in the past, do ask some older and more objective Greek to check, but refereed mostly to "Northern Greece". I did not say they outlawed the word, but there were aware of potential issues. As you know Macedonia was parittioned in 1913 after two very bloody wars which followed periods of many uprisings and outright terror. The greatest concern your government had, I suspect, was the fact that many Macedonians could claim their land if they return. Which is why your government made sure noone was allowed back and they passed laws which specified that only "Greeks by race" can have certain priviledges, etc.


Please post here your proofs when Greeks did not use Macedonia in the past. That is untrue and you make some dangerous statements with that which are easily addressed.
It has been mentioned from ancient times to now. I can see this has been looked after at least for Bank Notes and Macedonia (http://www.macedoniaontheweb.com/forum/free-speech-macedonia-forum/824-greek-bank-notes.html). :)

Some evidence has been compiled here: Macedonia Name Usage in Greece (http://www.macedoniaontheweb.com/forum/anti-greek-macedonia-propaganda/405-use-name-macedonia-most-ill-conceived-skopjian-lie-2.html)

I think you need to conduct some more reading before you come and post further "proofs" and "hypotheses"

[akritas]

Strange, I never felt so welcomed in my life! ;)

As far as I know, the brochure was written by Ms. Lois Whitman. The report stated in no uncertain terms that there is a Macedonian minorty in Greece - which is a true statement.

The politics of the Greek government aside, I never understood why you as people collectively fall into denial about the above statement?! We are aware that you won in the late 1940s, and that you expelled or generally assimilated whatever Macedonian population was left there. Macedonia(ns) in the 1990s were no threat to Greece, unlike some others to the West. Yet, you deny and repress the remaining Macedonians in Aegean Macedonia with such fanaticism that it rivals some less "prestigeous" countries. Why is that?

"PhiliptheUniterchaeronea": the Greek government rarely used the word "Macedonia" in the past, do ask some older and more objective Greek to check, but refereed mostly to "Northern Greece". I did not say they outlawed the word, but there were aware of potential issues. As you know Macedonia was parittioned in 1913 after two very bloody wars which followed periods of many uprisings and outright terror. The greatest concern your government had, I suspect, was the fact that many Macedonians could claim their land if they return. Which is why your government made sure noone was allowed back and they passed laws which specified that only "Greeks by race" can have certain priviledges, etc.
This script of the supposing assimilation is old. You involved in an supposing Civil war and you lost.You lost because the domestic people (specially the so called Grekomans) fought against your communist anscestors(Greeks and Yugoslavs).
And your above quote is contradicted your argyment as about the numbers of the supposing minority.Once you speak for minority and the other speak for assimilation.I will agree for Slavonic origin Macedonians that could be establish a community.But with remain unredeemed ideas as some Slavmacedonian nationalistic element want to present us, this community will never recognize , not only from Greek adm as also and from other democratics states.And as I see you support this argyment.

As about your claim and the supposing ""rarely used the word Macedonia"" I suggest to read the forum threads.You will find a lot of evidence and proofs.One of them is this that show from the adm.

[admin]

Dear Robert,

I think a MUCH BETTER question to ask is:

How come Macedonia wasn't mentioned in Skopjia / ie FYROM as their own country name until very, very recent times?

If you have any proof please post it here we are quite interested to see this.