Documentary about Pyrros Dimas, childhood and origins

[Tsontos]

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3

ANyone know how to do subtitles?

[Peace Lover]

Ha ha ha , Pirro Dhima is an Albanain mercenar , an old Albanian tradition , from the time of the Illyrians !
:p
The same as Luan Shabani .:p
Also Mirela Manjani etc.

[kostas68]

Ha ha ha , Pirro Dhima is an Albanain mercenar , an old Albanian tradition , from the time of the Illyrians !
:p
The same as Luan Shabani .:p
Also Mirela Manjani etc.
Off course Shabani and Manjani are Albanians but not Pyrros Dimas.I still remember his first interview when he won the first gold medall in 1992,you could understand from his accent and the way he spoke Greek that it was his native language.I remember also(in the same olympics,Barcelona 1992) what he shouted when he lifted the weight: <Για την Ελλάδα!>(For Greece!).

[Tsontos]

Yes thats what every Albanian on the internet likes to parrot. But do you have any proof he doesnt come from a Grecophone and ethnic Greek family from Albania?

[gmellos]

Yes thats what every Albanian on the internet likes to parrot. But do you have any proof he doesnt come from a Grecophone and ethnic Greek family from Albania?

Off course NOT they all believe the BS lies of thier communist era education system!

[TirAlb]

There are not Greeks in Himara,thats why he can't be Greek.But you can take him we don't need that kind of people.

[Draco]

There are not Greeks in Himara,thats why he can't be Greek.But you can take him we don't need that kind of people.
Please elaborate. I often hear you say that and I still don't understand why they are not Greeks. If they are not Greeks, what are they?

[TirAlb]

Please elaborate. I often hear you say that and I still don't understand why they are not Greeks. If they are not Greeks, what are they?


They are Albanians.I don't know if you are familiar with area,it is sorrounded by mountaines and their only link with the outside word was the sea.Almost every himariot house had a boat and their only sustain means were fishing and trade with south italy(In italy Himariot descendants still exist and they are just as the other Arbereshs) and Korfu.Indeed till 1800 they were bilingual and their second language was italian and not Greek.They started to speak the same greek dialect of Korfu,but it is a quite recent thing,and their Albanian is a perfect Lab dialect.During their marriages or funerals they sing in Albanian.Its immposible to distinguish Himariots from other Albanians from those regions,while you can spot immediately a greek from the minority are because of their typical greek accent.The only diference is that they are orthodox due to their isolation.Even today the Himariots that declare themselves Greeks are less then 30-35%.

[kostas68]

They are Albanians.I don't know if you are familiar with area,it is sorrounded by mountaines and their only link with the outside word was the sea.Almost every himariot house had a boat and their only sustain means were fishing and trade with south italy(In italy Himariot descendants still exist and they are just as the other Arbereshs) and Korfu.Indeed till 1800 they were bilingual and their second language was italian and not Greek.They started to speak the same greek dialect of Korfu,but it is a quite recent thing,and their Albanian is a perfect Lab dialect.During their marriages or funerals they sing in Albanian.Its immposible to distinguish Himariots from other Albanians from those regions,while you can spot immediately a greek from the minority are because of their typical greek accent.The only diference is that they are orthodox due to their isolation.Even today the Himariots that declare themselves Greeks are less then 30-35%.
These claims seem to me very childish and naif.What malakies are you telling us?They are claiming that they are Greeks because they learnt Greek in order to trade with Greeks of Korfu!This must be something unique in world history!I know many people who learnt the language of their neighbourns for several reasons,(some of them speak now only their new language instead their own,like Scotts and Irish)but no one has changed his ethnicity for that.As for your claim that they are orthodox due to their isolation,i ask you:were the Greeks of Himarra the only isolated people in Albania?The Albanians who lived also in Himara weren't isolated?Why aren't they orthodox?

[TirAlb]

These claims seem to me very childish and naif.What malakies are you telling us?They are claiming that they are Greeks because they learnt Greek in order to trade with Greeks of Korfu!This must be something unique in world history!I know many people who learnt the language of their neighbourns for several reasons,(some of them speak now only their new language instead their own,like Scotts and Irish)but no one has changed his ethnicity for that.As for your claim that they are orthodox due to their isolation,i ask you:were the Greeks of Himarra the only isolated people in Albania?The Albanians who lived also in Himara weren't isolated?Why aren't they orthodox?

Albanian catholics were isolated as well.They are a pocket in a muslim area thats their particularity,and as i said thanks to their isolation.And btw himara in medieval times was the name for all the region not only for the 9 villages like today.
Sry man but its not a naive claim.Their history is well documented.As i said we have himariots in italy,Skanderbegs son tryed to organise an uprising exactly in Himara,napoleon formed the "Garde Albanaise",with recrutes from Himara,half of their surnames are simply catholic Albanian surname,probably because most of them are just north Albanians that moved there after the fall of Kruja.

I know many people who learnt the language of their neighbourns for several reasons,(some of them speak now only their new language instead their own,like Scotts and Irish)
Well you forgot to mention Arvanites.Himariots are just albanians and they like all the other orthodox Albanians were a blackmailing instrument in the hands of greece.

[Draco]

Well you forgot to mention Arvanites.Himariots are just albanians and they like all the other orthodox Albanians were a blackmailing instrument in the hands of greece.
If they never had an Albanian national identity, why do you claim them as Albanians? I admit, it would be dubious if they once identified themselves as Albanians and not Greeks since the rise of nationalism in Europe, but I'm not aware of that ever happening.

You should take a leaf out of the Greek book. We accept as Greeks those who identify as Greeks (regardless of language, such as Arvanites or Greek Americans) and reject those who don't identify as Greeks (even if they do speak Greek, such as the Greek Muslims).

[TirAlb]

If they never had an Albanian national identity, why do you claim them as Albanians? I admit, it would be dubious if they once identified themselves as Albanians and not Greeks since the rise of nationalism in Europe, but I'm not aware of that ever happening.

You should take a leaf out of the Greek book. We accept as Greeks those who identify as Greeks (regardless of language, such as Arvanites or Greek Americans) and reject those who don't identify as Greeks (even if they do speak Greek, such as the Greek Muslims).

So if sudenly decide to call my self Greek you will accept it?!
Well then we have two different conceptions of nation.To me the ones you brought are good to describe a confraternity but not a nation.

[Draco]

So if sudenly decide to call my self Greek you will accept it?!
Well then we have two different conceptions of nation.To me the ones you brought are good to describe a confraternity but not a nation.
It works for the Swiss. :)

Regarding you deciding to be a Greek, no I wouldn't accept it. The reason for that is that you already belonged to a different nation and we don't accept switches. The Arvanites never identified themselves as part of an Albanian nation (presumably due to their isolation), however they did come to identify themselves as part of a Greek nation.

[kostas68]

Albanian catholics were isolated as well.They are a pocket in a muslim area thats their particularity,and as i said thanks to their isolation.And btw himara in medieval times was the name for all the region not only for the 9 villages like today.
You didn;t understand what i said.If the Greek speeking people of Himara weren't Greeks but Albanians,as you claim,they wouldn't be orthodox but catholics or muslims like the other Albanians of this region
Sry man but its not a naive claim.Their history is well documented.As i said we have himariots in italy,Skanderbegs son tryed to organise an uprising exactly in Himara,napoleon formed the "Garde Albanaise",with recrutes from Himara,half of their surnames are simply catholic Albanian surname,probably because most of them are just north Albanians that moved there after the fall of Kruja.
I don't claim that in Himara are or were living only Greeks.
Well you forgot to mention Arvanites.Himariots are just albanians and they like all the other orthodox Albanians were a blackmailing instrument in the hands of greece.
Arvanites are a very different case.They weren't a people who learnt his neighbourn's language and therefore he was assimilated.They were a minority surrounded by a majority and therefore they got hellenized.Their assimilation was inevitable under these circumstances,it's something that has happened in many other countries many times.Allthough they are now self-identifying as Greeks you consider them Albanians and that is something that i can understand.You say that all the orthodoxs in Albania aren't Greeks and i agree and accept it.But when someone is orthodox,speaks Greek and calls himself Greek,why can't you accept it?

[TirAlb]

It works for the Swiss. :)

Regarding you deciding to be a Greek, no I wouldn't accept it. The reason for that is that you already belonged to a different nation and we don't accept switches. The Arvanites never identified themselves as part of an Albanian nation (presumably due to their isolation), however they did come to identify themselves as part of a Greek nation.

Well Draco they live in Albania so i guess they will have to follow our rules!They identifyed themselfes as part of the Albanian nation during communism(i know what you are going to say),but i doubt Arvanites in Greece had more freedom of choice.

[Draco]

They identifyed themselfes as part of the Albanian nation during communism(i know what you are going to say)
I won't say it if they also did not identify themselves as Greeks before communism.
but i doubt Arvanites in Greece had more freedom of choice.
They shouldn't have fought en masse during the Greek Revolution and provided Greece with many Prime Ministers and Presidents then. One would expect that if they were oppressed, from those positions they would have been able to stop the oppression!

[gmellos]

They are Albanians.I don't know if you are familiar with area,it is sorrounded by mountaines and their only link with the outside word was the sea.Almost every himariot house had a boat and their only sustain means were fishing and trade with south italy(In italy Himariot descendants still exist and they are just as the other Arbereshs) and Korfu.Indeed till 1800 they were bilingual and their second language was italian and not Greek.They started to speak the same greek dialect of Korfu,but it is a quite recent thing,and their Albanian is a perfect Lab dialect.During their marriages or funerals they sing in Albanian.Its immposible to distinguish Himariots from other Albanians from those regions,while you can spot immediately a greek from the minority are because of their typical greek accent.The only diference is that they are orthodox due to their isolation.Even today the Himariots that declare themselves Greeks are less then 30-35%.

Ok so IF they claim themselves as Greeks doesn't that make them greeks? Oh wait ONLY Albanians and Scopians can make those claims!:rolleyes:

[Draco]

The real question is why did the Himariots elect Bolanos as mayor if only a minority of them are Greek.

[TirAlb]

The real question is why did the Himariots elect Bolanos as mayor if only a minority of them are Greek.

Because we respect our minorities,and we let them win.


last local elections:
ps:theres only one round and who gets more votes gets the seat.


http://www.cec.org.al/2004/zgjedhvendorefiles/2007/Rezultatet/web%20rez%20perf/rez_keshilltare.htm

BASHKIA HIMARE

Nr Subjektet zgjedhore Me shifër % Mandate KZQV
1 Aleanca Demokratike AD 130 4.87 % 1
2 Lëvizja për të Drejtat dhe Liritë e Njeriut LDLNJ 116 4.35 % 1
3 Levizja për Zhvillim Kombëtar LZHK 35 1.31 % 0
4 Lëvizja Socialiste për Integrim LSI 135 5.06 % 1
5 Partia Agrare Ambjentaliste e Shqipërisë PAA 21 0.79 % 0
6 Partia Balli Kombëtar PBK 36 1.35 % 0
7 Partia Bashkimi Për Të Drejtat e Njeriut PBDNJ 833 31.21 % 5
8 Partia Demokracia Sociale PDS 89 3.33 % 1
9 Partia Demokrate e Re PDR 258 9.67 % 2
10 Partia Demokratike PD 209 7.83 % 1
11 Partia Demokristiane e Shqipërisë PDK 252 9.44 % 2
12 Partia Emigracioni Shqiptar PESH 0 0.00 % 0
13 Partia Republikane Shqiptare PR 204 7.64 % 1
14 Partia Socialdemokrate PSD 58 2.17 % 0
15 Partia Socialiste e Shqipërisë PS 293 10.98 % 2
Gjithsej vota të vlefshme 2,669 100.00 % 17

[Peace Lover]

Kostas your so confused !
Don't listen to the Berisha's bullshits !
70% of the Albanians(of Albania) are moslems , NOT TRUTH !
More than 80% of the Albanians(of Albania) are Atheist or Agonstic !
From the religious Albanians the majority is Greek-Othodox(Church of Iannoulatos) , probably the second most important religious group are the Roman-Catholics(Katolikët) , later the Shi'i moslems(Sect of Becta Shi'i/Bektashinjtë) , from the smallest group are the Suuni moslems(Myslimanët) , the Eastern Orthodoxes(Church of Father Nikolla Marku) and the Greek-Catholics(Jeziutët) !
From the Atheist-Agnostic group only 10% seems Agnostic the rest is Atheist !
Yes , from the Agnostics the majority are the Suuni moslems of Berisha !
At maximum the religious people in Albania is 24% of the population , the rest is ATHEIST !
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
About Pirro Dhima , my father talk with him in '96 , because he come a lot of times in Albania in those years ! He never claim his self Greek !
But , Himariot !
If you visit Himara , you gone see that the Albanians of Himara claim theyr selves Himariotes and the Greeks of them " Akrokeraounoi " !
He said to my father that he decide to rapresent Greece because the grave economical situation of Albania !
If I don't remember bad he said in TVSH(Albanian Public Televison) that all the Albanians should be proud for him !
Probably his Greek only from the mother or he had Vlach origins . The surname Dhima(Dimas) is used more by the Albanians that the Greeks in percentage !
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
About Himara only 21% of the population declare themselves Greeks !
They live only in 3 villages , from 9 of the Himara's district . Only in one village they are in majorance in Buno(Greek:Vuno) . In the town of Himara they are only 14% of the population !
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
About the elections , the PBDNj party isn't the party of the Greeks , but of the minorances !
This party rapresent all the minorances , Slavs , Vlachs , Greeks , Turks , Egyptians , Romany etc.
Also rapresent the Christian religious citizens of the Atheist Albania !
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kostas don't confuse anymore the Orthodoxism with the Hellenism !
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bollano , first , is the rapresentant of the Orthodoxes , in Himara the majority is Orthodox not Atheist !
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
But if you want the truth about Himara ? (http://www.himara.eu/)
Himara is occupied by MAVI(Omonia) !
:mad:

[Draco]

70% of the Albanians(of Albania) are moslems , NOT TRUTH !
With 70 percent of its population Muslim, Albania is Europe’s only predominantly Islamic state. Orthodox Christians, living mostly in southern Albania, make up 20 percent of the population, and Roman Catholics, mainly in the north, make up another 10 percent.

http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761561564_3/Albania.html

YouTube - 5 minutes introduction to islam

http://navedz.files.wordpress.com/2007/01/allah-hu.jpg

In such contexts, "Muslims" probably means people who would identify themselves as adherents of that particular religion and who would use it for marriage and burial rites. Not whether they are practicing Muslims and "true believers".

Regarding the Catholic Albanians, aren't they sometimes (colloquially) referred to as "Franks"? That is a term often used for Catholic Greeks.

[Peace Lover]

[QUOTE=Draco;72819]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHujiWd49l4
Anyone , could send a video in youtube ! PLEASE DON'T BE SO STUPID !

http://navedz.files.wordpress.com/2007/01/allah-hu.jpg
YEAH , YEAH , YOU ARE STUPID !

In such contexts, "Muslims" probably means people who would identify themselves as adherents of that particular religion and who would use it for marriage and burial rites. Not whether they are practicing Muslims and "true believers".
My God , please help him !

Regarding the Catholic Albanians, aren't they sometimes (colloquially) referred to as "Franks"?
No ! But , Dukagjinasit !
That is a term often used for Catholic Greeks.
WOW , the Shkodrans are Greeks , this is the maximum !
After :
Pelasgians were Greeks ,
Phoenicians were Greeks ,
Coptes are Greeks ,
who's orthodox is Greek ,
the Albanians are Albanized Greeks ,
the Fyromians are Bulgarized Greeks ,
the Turks are Turkized Greeks
and other bullshits like this ,
now the Ducaginnians are Greeks !
God !
-------------
This means that : " Who's Christian is Greek " !
WOW 1 billion of Greeks !
I think that the biggest ethinicity on earth was the Han , 900 millions !
AVE GRAECIA !

[Draco]

You have serious psychological issues. By Catholic Greeks I am referring to people in Greece, not the Shkodrans.

What is it, you have doubts as to the loyalty of the "Katolikët" within "Albania al-Islamiyyah" (ألبانيا الإسلامية)? Don't worry, we aren't claiming them.

[Peace Lover]

You have serious psychological issues. By Catholic Greeks I am referring to people in Greece, not the Shkodrans.

What is it, you have doubts as to the loyalty of the "Katolikët" within "Albania al-Islamiyyah" (ألبانيا الإسلامية)? Don't worry, we aren't claiming them.

Thank you , now I'm filling better !
I was so scared , the Greeks gone claim that the Albanians are Islamic people !
This is only a big bullshit !
The Albanians are the most oldest surviving people of Europe !
The Proto-Albanian language was formed more than 4.000 of years before , near the Alps ! Later in -1.200 when the Illyrians move to south was formed an old variety of the modern Albanian , closely to the Albanian Geg dialect !
The Albanian is the most oldest surviving western culture in the World !
Nothing , nothing , nothing , to do woth some stupid Arab traditions !
We hate the Arabs and they hate us(Kosova issue) !
Was Costantine the Great , an Illyrian(Thracophone/Naissos) from Dardania who officialized the Christianity in Europe , why you don't see it by the Albanians ?
The rest of the European(Real/western) see it by the Albanians but you see those bullshits the same as the Serbs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theories_on_the_origin_of_the_Serbs) or the Fyromians !
Shame on you !

[kostas68]

The Albanians are the most oldest surviving people of Europe !
:killme::banana:
The Proto-Albanian language was formed more than 4.000 of years before , near the Alps !
:killme::killme::banana::banana:Be aware,Austria and Switzerland!
Later in -1.200 when the Illyrians move to south was formed an old variety of the modern Albanian , closely to the Albanian Geg dialect !
:killme::killme::killme::banana::banana::banana:
The Albanian is the most oldest surviving western culture in the World !
:kick: Hey,this was below the belt!
Yes,i agree with you,but those stupid western scholars are totally ignorent.So can you remind us please what has producted the <most oldest surviving western culture in the World>?Can you give us the names of some famous Albanian philosophers,authors,poets,painters,sculptors,e.t. c.
Shame on you !
:ignore:

[Andrew]

The Albanians are the most oldest surviving people of Europe !The Proto-Albanian language was formed more than 4.000 of years before , near the Alps ! Later in -1.200 when the Illyrians move to south was formed an old variety of the modern Albanian , closely to the Albanian Geg dialect !The Albanian is the most oldest surviving western culture in the World !Nothing , nothing , nothing , to do woth some stupid Arab traditions !We hate the Arabs and they hate us(Kosova issue) !
Was Costantine the Great , an Illyrian(Thracophone/Naissos) from Dardania who officialized the Christianity in Europe , why you don't see it by the Albanians ?

:clap2::clapping::clap2:

Dear global viewers of this FORUM ..this is a sample of what is neighbooring Greece ...This is what we Greeks hear every day by our beloved neighboors ...
It's only a miracle that we'are still standing after all this "stupidity" strikes
:boohoo::help::gripe::gripe::kick::confused::frust y::frusty::frusty::blast::blast::headbonk::headbon k::gun_thug::gun_thug:

[TirAlb]

:clap2::clapping::clap2:

Dear global viewers of this FORUM ..this is a sample of what is neighbooring Greece ...This is what we Greeks hear every day by our beloved neighboors ...
It's only a miracle that we'are still standing after all this "stupidity" strikes
:boohoo::help::gripe::gripe::kick::confused::frust y::frusty::frusty::blast::blast::headbonk::headbon k::gun_thug::gun_thug:


Every balkanian thinks he is the choosen one sorrounded by stupid day dreamers..So what makes you think that the global viewers may think that you are different from the others?!

[Andrew]

Tiralb I never said I'm different from other Balkanians ....I can only say I'm more "rational" in my claims ...BTW I have to admit that you're the most reasonable and rational of all the Albos I've seen in the FORUM .

[Draco]

That stuff about the Pelasgians is ridiculous. I can accept the view that the Albanians (and the Albanian language) derive from the Illyrians, but this Pelasgian stuff is dubious at best because don't know anything about the Pelasgians (we aren't even 100% sure they existed). I wish Albanian nationalists would decide once and for all what their origin is (Illyrian, Pelasgian, Thracian, Dacian..?). The "Pelasgian theory" is Kollias's fringe bullshit which is misused by Albanian nationalists who haven't got a clue what he was saying (and paradoxically Kollias's "theory" was originally intended to prove that contemporary Albanians and Greeks are the same people).

ألبانيا الإسلامية

http://shipsbecks.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/flag-of-albania.jpg

http://gopalkeerty.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/mohamed-zakariya-islamic-callligrapher.jpg

[TirAlb]

That stuff about the Pelasgians is ridiculous. I can accept the view that the Albanians (and the Albanian language) derive from the Illyrians, but this Pelasgian stuff is dubious at best because don't know anything about the Pelasgians (we aren't even 100% sure they existed). I wish Albanian nationalists would decide once and for all what their origin is (Illyrian, Pelasgian, Thracian, Dacian..?). The "Pelasgian theory" is Kollias's fringe bullshit which is misused by Albanian nationalists who haven't got a clue what he was saying (and paradoxically Kollias's "theory" was originally intended to prove that contemporary Albanians and Greeks are the same people).

ألبانيا الإسلامية

http://shipsbecks.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/flag-of-albania.jpg

http://gopalkeerty.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/mohamed-zakariya-islamic-callligrapher.jpg

Draco you continuously post these muslim/arab stuff.At least explain us what is the meaning of those writings.

[Peace Lover]

Draco :That stuff about the Pelasgians is ridiculous. I can accept the view that the Albanians (and the Albanian language) derive from the Illyrians, but this Pelasgian stuff is dubious at best because don't know anything about the Pelasgians (we aren't even 100% sure they existed). I wish Albanian nationalists would decide once and for all what their origin is (Illyrian, Pelasgian, Thracian, Dacian..?). The "Pelasgian theory" is Kollias's fringe bullshit which is misused by Albanian nationalists who haven't got a clue what he was saying (and paradoxically Kollias's "theory" was originally intended to prove that contemporary Albanians and Greeks are the same people).
Oh the Arvanites aren't so Greek like you pretend !
ألبانيا الإسلامية
Ha ha ha !
We hate the Arabs and the Turks and all the rest of the fvcking Al Qaeada's world ! Albania is the best ally of the USA from 8 years of Bush presidency(Bush idea , Bushi is a common Albanian surname).
http://shipsbecks.files.wordpress.com/2007/05/flag-of-albania.jpg
Flag of the Arvanites !
http://gopalkeerty.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/mohamed-zakariya-islamic-callligrapher.jpg
Greek moslems of Turkey embleme !:p

[Draco]

Oh the Arvanites aren't so Greek like you pretend !
I don't pretend anything. I'll acknowledge that the Arvanites of Greece have Albanian origin, but I see claims that the ~100,000 elderly Arvanites in Greece constitute a patriotic and proud Albanian minority numbering 2,000,000 as what they really are: laughable.
Bush idea , Bushi is a common Albanian surname
Are you sure you aren't related to the Skopjians, why else would you be a carrier of the "claim everyone syndrome". :p

[Draco]

Also, Peace Lover, why do Albanians use the Latin alphabet and not the real Albanian alphabet (http://www.geocities.com/g_armillotta/albania/albanianarabic.html)? :p

[Peace Lover]

Also, Peace Lover, why do Albanians use the Latin alphabet and not the real Albanian alphabet (http://www.geocities.com/g_armillotta/albania/albanianarabic.html)? :p

Albanian language the most oldest IE language and mother language of Greek and Latin ! (http://www.geocities.com/ga57/albania/tree.html)
Ha ha ha ha , thanks Draco !:p

[Draco]

Albanian language the most oldest IE language and mother language of Greek and Latin ! (http://www.geocities.com/ga57/albania/tree.html)
Ha ha ha ha , thanks Draco !:p
LOL. "Oldest IE language" and "mother language of Greek and Latin" is an assumption based on zero evidence. Needless to say mainstream academics reject such assumptions.

[Peace Lover]

LOL. "Oldest IE language" and "mother language of Greek and Latin" is an assumption based on zero evidence. Needless to say mainstream academics reject such assumptions.

Yeah , your so inteligent !
Do you see the map ?

[Draco]

Yeah , your so inteligent !
Do you see the map ?
That map doesn't prove either of those assumptions. A language's "height" in the map is irrelevant; "Modern English" for example is depicted below "Middle (i.e. Medieval) English". Does that mean Middle English is older? As for Albanian being the "mother language", not even that is depicted.

Albanian nationalists are too obsessed with their language being the oldest. Wake up call: there is no "oldest" language, and the most conservative IE language is Lithuanian.

[Christov]

That map doesn't prove either of those assumptions. A language's "height" in the map is irrelevant; "Modern English" for example is depicted below "Middle (i.e. Medieval) English". Does that mean Middle English is older? As for Albanian being the "mother language", not even that is depicted.

Albanian nationalists are too obsessed with their language being the oldest. Wake up call: there is no "oldest" language, and the most conservative IE language is Lithuanian.Thanks God! There is a light in the tunnel... Hey, Draco, where have you been, mate? I thought the situation is desperate already!

[Tsontos]

Peace Lover you are warned about posting in a language besides English or Greek and also about trying to personally insult another member (stupid etc.).

[kostas68]

Yeah , your so inteligent !
Do you see the map ?
Hmmmm...by whom was made this map?Giovanni Armilotta?I've read once something about the Italian names ending in -otti...that they are of Albanian origin.Italy has her own Arvanites as far as i know.And where is the Illyrian language in this map?Albanian is supposed to descending from Illyrian,now you claim that it derives straight from the <common Indoeuropean> language?That means that Illyrians spoke almost the same language with nowadays Albanians?

[Peace Lover]

Peace Lover you are warned about posting in a language besides English or Greek and also about trying to personally insult another member (stupid etc.).

I never said " stupid " to some one in my life or in this forum !
When I said it ?