The Greek dialect of Epeirotes.

[helinasson]

Found in Epeiros.
In the Greek characters.
In the Greek language---North-Western dialect.

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/3745/epirusemblemgd0.jpg

The famous Proffesor of History.
Nicholas Hammond
The old population of Epeiros has spoken a Greek dialect.
Albtir, let me know if you can recognize Albanian in this writting:clapping::clap2:

[olvios]

Epirotic

* ἀγχωρίξαντας anchôrixantas having transferred,postponed Chaonian (Attic metapherô,anaballô) (anchôrizo anchi near +horizô define and Doric x instead of Attic s) (Cf. Ionic anchouros neighbouring) not to be confused with Doric anchôreô Attic ana-chôreô go back,withdraw.
* ἀκαθαρτία akathartia impurity (Attic/Doric akatharsia) (Lamelles Oraculaires 14)
* ἀποτράχω apotrachô run away (Attic/Doric apotrechô)
* ἄσπαλοι aspaloi fishes Athamanian (Attic ichthyes) (Ionic chlossoi) (Cf.LSJ aspalia angling , aspalieus fisherman , aspalieuomai I angle metaph. of a lover , aspalisai: halieusai, sagêneusai. (hals sea)
* Ἄσπετος Aspetos divine epithet of Achilles in Epirus (Homeric aspetos 'unspeakable,unspeakably great,endless' (Aristotle F 563 Rose; Plutarch, Pyrrhus 1; SH 960,4)
* γνώσκω gnôskô know (Attic gignôskô) (Ionic/Koine ginôskô) (Latin nōsco)(Attic gnôsis , Latin notio knowledge) (ref.Orion p.42.17)
* διαιτός diaitos (Hshc. jugde kritês) (Attic diaitêtês arbitrator) Lamelles Oraculaires 16
* ἐσκιχρέμεν eskichremen lend out πὲρ τοῖ ἀργύρροι (Lamelles Oraculaires 8 of Eubandros) (Attic eis + inf. kichranai from chraomai use)
* Ϝεῖδυς Weidus knowing (Doric Ϝειδώς) weidôs) (Elean ϝειζός weizos) (Attic εἰδώς) eidôs) (PIE *weid- "to know, to see" ,Sanskrit veda I know) Cabanes, L'Épire 577,50
* κάστον kaston wood Athamanian (Attic xylon from xyô scrape , hence xyston) (Dialectical kalon wood from kaiô burn kauston sth that can be burnt, kausimon fuel)
* λῃτῆρες lêïtêres Athamanian priests with garlands Hes.text ἱεροὶ στεφανοφόροι. Ἀθαμᾶνες(LSJ: lêitarchoi public priests ) (hence Leitourgia
* μανύ manu small Athamanian (Attic mikron,brachu) (Cf. manon rare) (PIE *men- small,thin) (Hsch. banon thin) ( manosporos thinly sown manophullos with small leaves Thphr.HP7.6.2-6.3)
* Νάϊος Naios or Naos epithet of Dodonaean Zeus (from the spring in the oracle) (cf. Naiades and Pan Naios in Pydna SEG 50:622 (Homericnaô flow ,Attic nama spring) (PIE *sna-)
* παγάομαι pagaomai 'wash in the spring' (of Dodona) (Doric paga Attic pêgê running water,fountain)
* παμπασία pampasia (to ask peri pampasias cliche phrase in the oracle) (Attic pampêsia full property) (Doric paomai obtain)
* Πελιγᾶνες Peliganes or Peligones (Epirotan,Macedonian senators)
* πρᾶμι prami do optative(Attic πράττοιμι prattoimi) Syncope (Lamelles Oraculaires 22)
* τίνε tine (Attic/Doric tini) to whom (Lamelles Oraculaires 7)
* τριθυτικόν trithutikon triple sacrifice tri + thuo(Lamelles Oraculaires 138)

Henry George Liddell, Robert Scott
http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/ptext?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0058;layout=;qu ery=toc;loc=cu%2Flon

[TirAlb]

I can recognize,DIELL,literally meaning SUN in Albanian.Just a coincidence?maybe...

[olvios]

Indoeuropean similarities, Albanian has little to nothing of Ancient Greek

[Sniper]

in Greek there is a similar word Δείλη,Δείλι,Δειλινό/Διλινό(Deili,Dili,Deilino,Dilino) meaning the afternoon or when the sun has its red color in afternoon times.Olvios posted some other words that prove the greekness of the ancient Epirotants...why don't you pay attention to them but only to a stone where the whole word or phrase is missing?

[boreans79]

Found in Epeiros.
In the Greek language---North-Western dialect.

http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/3745/epirusemblemgd0.jpg

Albtir, let me know if you can recognize Albanian in this writting:clapping::clap2:

What makes you so sure that this grave stele has greek words on it?

look at the dictionary

http://www.argjiro.net/fjalor/

English (6 entries.) ---------------Shqip (6 hyrje.)(ALBANIAN)

sun ------------------------------diell {m}
sunny ----------------------------me diell (mbiemër)
__________________________________________________ ____________

English (1 entries.)-------------------Shqip (1 hyrje.)(ALBANIAN)

father--------------------------------atë {m}, babë {f}, baba {m}

[boreans79]

Found in Epeiros.
In the Greek characters.
http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/3745/epirusemblemgd0.jpg


The "greek" letters are common in the whole Balcan area. They fit the sound system of all Balcan people languages:

The Illyrians:

http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/2084/gnxep1zn0.jpg

[Foti66]

UMMMM, because the Greek alphabet is used?

[boreans79]

the Epirotes:

http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/2020/epirusstele1997bt5.jpg

[boreans79]

the "greek" colony in Apolonia

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/6663/fimiahi6.jpg

[boreans79]

The Messapians(Illyrians)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/graphics/2005/11/18/wmap18.jpg

[boreans79]

All them, in common :
NOT in the greek language.

[Andrew]

So then, in travelling this road from the region of Epidamnus and Apollonia, one has on the right the Epeirotic tribes whose coasts are washed by the Sicilian Sea and extend as far as the Ambracian Gulf,415 and, on the left, the mountains of Illyria

STRABO 7.7.323

1) So Egnatia separates Illyrians by Epeirotans

But some go so far as to call the whole of the country Macedonia, as far as Corcyra, 327at the same time stating as their reason that in tonsure, language, short cloak, and other things of the kind, the usages of the inhabitants are similar,451 although, they add, some speak both languages

STRABO 7.7.327

2) Macedonians and Epeirotans until Corcira spoke the same language and there were bilingual "Hellenized" Illyrians.

Titus Livius (Livy) Ab urbe condita (31.29.2) reminds us :

“Aetolos , Acarnanas , Macedonas , EIUSDEM LINGUAE HOMINES”
“Aetolians , Acarnanians , Macedonians , MEN OF THE SAME LANGUAGE”

3) So Macedonians , Epeirotans , Aetolians and Acarnanians are men of the same language...I wonder what language was that if not greek ;) !!

Also Herodotus in (6.126-127) says :

126. ...Then all those of the Hellenes who had pride either in themselves or in their high descent, came as wooers, and for them Cleisthenes had a running- course and a wrestling-place made and kept them expressly for their use.

127. From Italy came Smindyrides the son of Hippocrates of Sybaris, who of all men on earth reached the highest point of luxury (now Sybaris at this time was in the height of its prosperity), and Damasos of Siris, the son of that Amyris who was called the Wise; these came from Italy: from the Ionian gulf came Amphimnestos the son of Epistrophos of Epidamnos, this man from the Ionian gulf: from Aitolia came Males, the brother of that Titormos who surpassed all the Hellenes in strength and who fled from the presence of men to the furthest extremities of the Aitolian land: from Peloponnesus, Leokedes the son of Pheidon the despot of the Argives, that Pheidon who established for the Peloponnesians the measures which they use, and who went beyond all other Hellenes in wanton insolence, since he removed from their place the presidents of the games appointed by the Eleians and himself presided over the games at Olympia,--his son, I say, and Amiantos the son of Lycurgos an Arcadian from Trapezus, and Laphanes an Azanian from the city of Paios, son of that Euphorion who (according to the story told in Arcadia) received the Dioscuroi as guests in his house and from thenceforth was wont to entertain all men who came, and Onomastos the son of Agaios of Elis; these, I say, came from Peloponnesus itself: from Athens came Megacles the son of that Alcmaion who went to Crœsus, and besides him Hippocleides the son of Tisander, one who surpassed the other Athenians in wealth and in comeliness of form: from Eretria, which at that time was flourishing, came Lysanias, he alone from Eubœa: from Thessalia came Diactorides of Crannon, one of the family of the Scopadai: and from the Molossians, Alcon.

Again all the Hellenes ...among them Molossians , Aetolians ...sorry guys !!!

[olvios]

The Messapians(Illyrians)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/graphics/2005/11/18/wmap18.jpg

Irrelevant posts....:dry:

And Messapic is not Albanian and its not even Illyrian.Also Messapians were in Italy :rolleyes:.

http://linguistlist.org/forms/langs/LLDescription.cfm?code=cms%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20 %20%20%20%20%20%20%20&CFTREEITEMKEY=cms+++++++++++++++

The Messapic Language

An ancient language of Southeastern Italy, spoken along the Adriatic coast. It was the language of the Apuli, Daunii, Peucetti, Messapi, Calabri and Salentini tribes in the area. Once believed related to Illyrian, it is now recognized to be an independent Indo-European language, unrelated to Italic.

This thread is about a specific thing.The ancient Greek language of the Epirotes.

People like Illyrians,Messapians and Albanians:p or whatever else are irrelevant.

The Language in Epirus is known and translated and its Ancient Greek.Stop spamming us.

[boreans79]

And Messapic is not Albanian and its not even Illyrian.Also Messapians were in Italy :rolleyes:.



Are you sure? Perhaps you would change mind after this.

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/8718/messapiansnv5.png

Yes they were in Italy but they migrated from Balcan my dear Pordhios.

[boreans79]

The Language in Epirus is known and translated and its Ancient Greek.Stop spamming us.

OK , since you are so sure p.lease tell us what this writting means "translated" in greek;

http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/2020/epirusstele1997bt5.jpg

[olvios]

Boreans i told you to stop Posting Irrelevant stuff.Messapians are not Illyrians and the science of Archeology supersedes ancient texts and your worthless opinion.

And Messapic is not Albanian and its not even Illyrian.Also Messapians were in Italy :rolleyes:.

http://linguistlist.org/forms/langs/LLDescription.cfm?code=cms%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20 %20%20%20%20%20%20%20&CFTREEITEMKEY=cms+++++++++++++++

The Messapic Language

An ancient language of Southeastern Italy, spoken along the Adriatic coast. It was the language of the Apuli, Daunii, Peucetti, Messapi, Calabri and Salentini tribes in the area. Once believed related to Illyrian, it is now recognized to be an independent Indo-European language, unrelated to Italic.

This thread is about a specific thing.The ancient Greek language of the Epirotes.

People like Illyrians,Messapians and Albanians:p or whatever else are irrelevant.

The Language in Epirus is known and translated and its Ancient Greek.Stop spamming us.

Also provide sources for your images and data.
http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/2020/epirusstele1997bt5.jpg
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/graphics/2005/11/18/wmap18.jpg
http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/2084/gnxep1zn0.jpg
http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/6663/fimiahi6.jpg

Albanians have nothing to little of Ancient Greek in their language whilst Illyrians did.Thus if you continue to mix this with Albanians or Albano-Illyrian theories its off topic.

[boreans79]

Messapians are not Illyrians and the science of Archeology supersedes ancient texts and your worthless opinion.

And Messapic is not Albanian and its not even Illyrian.Also Messapians were in Italy :rolleyes:.

Albanians have nothing to little of Ancient Greek in their language whilst Illyrians did.Thus if you continue to mix this with Albanians or Albano-Illyrian theories its off topic.

Your orgasmic outburst is a desperate effort to change the flow of the debate.

I never made an attempt to prove ancient greek is albanian.
I did not even tried to prove that Illyrian is Albanian.

The only objection I gave is about the script that helineson brought who was pretending
1. the script was greek and had nothing to do with Albanian.
2. the "greek" letters are property only of the greeks, which is definetely wrong.

[olvios]

Stop posting irrelevant material like the messapians and the such.This is for a specific thing.

[boreans79]

And Messapic is not ...... and its not even Illyrian.

I brought you an undeniable evidence, from an ancient author(Nicander), but as usually you dont want to listen.

I will bring you a modern study about the races of Italy.

http://img329.imageshack.us/img329/129/messapians2ks8.png

[boreans79]

[B]

Also provide sources for your images and data.
http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/2020/epirusstele1997bt5.jpg
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/graphics/2005/11/18/wmap18.jpg
http://img390.imageshack.us/img390/2084/gnxep1zn0.jpg
http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/6663/fimiahi6.jpg



You want data, lets start with the last one

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/11/18/wmap18.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/11/18/ixworld.html

The oldest map of anywhere in the western world, dating from about 500 BC, has been unearthed in southern Italy. Known as the Soleto Map, the depiction of Apulia, the heel of Italy's "boot", is on a piece of black-glazed terracotta vase about the size of a postage stamp.


The map details the Puglia region of southern Italy
It was found in a dig led by the Belgian archaeologist Thierry van Compernolle, of Montpellier University, two years ago. But its existence was kept secret until more research was carried out.

The Soleto map also gives vital new clues to the cultural exchange between the newly arrived Greeks and the Messapi.

They lived in the area but probably came originally from Greece as their language is believed to be a dialect of Illyrian.
The Soleto map is a contemporary of the Greek mathematician Pythagoras, who set up a philosophy school in Crotone, now Calabria, on the other side of the Gulf of Taranto.

[olvios]

Its wrong since Messapians were not Illyrians and they did not come from Greece.

[olvios]

Off topic since page 1

[boreans79]

Also provide sources for your images and data.

http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/6663/fimiahi6.jpg
Albanians have nothing to little of Ancient Greek in their language whilst Illyrians did.Thus if you continue to mix this with Albanians or Albano-Illyrian theories its off topic.

You want data about scripts of Epirus, let have a look at the "official" ones not those that the "private" archeologists post on the forums.

WATCH it CAREFULLY , how the original script is distorted

http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscriptions/main

Regions : Northern Greece (IG X) PH181346
I.Apollonia 42 I.Apollonia 41 I.Apollonia 43
Illyria — Apollonia — 3rd c. BC
Σιμία Λυκίσκου χαῖρε.

SIMIA LIKISKOI
__________________________________________________
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/2918/varrfemijedetajiq9.jpg

distortion
distortion
distortion
distortion

[olvios]

Its Greek.The distorted thing here is your brain.Get an education.

* I.Apollonia 42
* Epeiros, Illyria, and Dalmatia : Illyria

Σιμία Λυκίσκου χαῖρε.

and provide a specific link next time

http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscriptions/oi?ikey=181346&bookid=227&region=4&subregion=10

The image from IMAGeSHACK you posted is from another text and not from PHI Greek inscriptions.

Its one of the many(350) inscriptions of Apollonia
http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscriptions/book?bookid=227&region=4&subregion=10

[boreans79]

Its Greek.The distorted thing here is your brain.Get an education.

* I.Apollonia 42
* Epeiros, Illyria, and Dalmatia : Illyria

Σιμία Λυκίσκου χαῖρε.

and provide a specific link next time

http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscriptions/oi?ikey=181346&bookid=227&region=4&subregion=10

The image from IMAGeSHACK you posted is from another text and not from PHI Greek inscriptions.

Its one of the many(350) inscriptions of Apollonia
http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscriptions/book?bookid=227&region=4&subregion=10

No testadura no, its the same text but proffesionally ""transliterated"" by the greek ""experts"" and/or the ignorants of western chathedras full with PHD-s.

[olvios]

You are a complete hopeless case.This may work on albanians but this isn't an albanian forum.Your level or trolling and lying has hit the fan.

I told you to provide links for your images and you didn't.

That image does not correspond to that text.

[boreans79]

You are a complete hopeless case.This may work on albanians but this isn't an albanian forum.Your level or trolling and lying has hit the fan.


That image does not correspond to that text.

And you are the hopeless itself.


I told you to provide links for your images and you didn't.

Links on what ?
For the images done on the basements of the greek houses with artifacts stolen from Albanian museums in 1997 and/or discovered after illegal digging by greek "archeologists".

[boreans79]

Its Greek.The distorted thing here is your brain.Get an education.

* I.Apollonia 42
* Epeiros, Illyria, and Dalmatia : Illyria

Σιμία Λυκίσκου χαῖρε.

and provide a specific link next time

http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscriptions/oi?ikey=181346&bookid=227&region=4&subregion=10

The image from IMAGeSHACK you posted is from another text and not from PHI Greek inscriptions.

Its one of the many(350) inscriptions of Apollonia
http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscriptions/book?bookid=227&region=4&subregion=10

Even a distorted brain is much better than not having it at all. And this is your case.

[olvios]

The image from IMAGeSHACK you posted is from another text and not from PHI Greek inscriptions.

Its one of the many(350) inscriptions of Apollonia
http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscriptions/book?bookid=227&region=4&subregion=10

That image is not of that text and your other comments illustrate that you are not only an idiot but a nutjob as well.

[boreans79]

The image from IMAGeSHACK you posted is from another text and not from PHI Greek inscriptions.

Its one of the many(350) inscriptions of Apollonia
http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscriptions/book?bookid=227&region=4&subregion=10

That image is not of that text and your other comments illustrate that you are not only an idiot but a nutjob as well.

You lost your mind, but I understand your situation. You are showing me the link that I provided to you in the post 08.29 AM.
By the way which is the meaning of
FIMIA XIYNERON in greek, since they are using the greek letters?

[boreans79]

Also
Show us an image from those 350 inscription in Epirus, just one, and then we will see how greek it is.

[Andrew]

Also
Show us an image from those 350 inscription in Epirus, just one, and then we will see how greek it is.

Boreans79 , please expain me one thing ...Why is it so difficult to accept that Epeirus was a land inhabited by rough greeks that lookes like barbarians to some other Greeks???

Don't you deny that you Albanians think the same about "Kosovars" no ...
..rough , uncivilized Albanians isn't it so ???

[olvios]

Off topic,also link and source the image or bugger off.

[boreans79]

Boreans79 , please expain me one thing ...Why is it so difficult to accept that Epeirus was a land inhabited by rough greeks that lookes like barbarians to some other Greeks??????

Its hard for me to define what the term 'Greek' means in ancient time. As far as I know Greeks were called the ARRIAN migration of a momadic tribe represented by the DORIANS and/or HERACLIDES.
The semi-arrian tribes of Ionians and Athenians were NOT Greeks.

also

Its hard for me to find any difference betwen Greeks and Illyrians.

Don't you deny that you Albanians think the same about "Kosovars" no .....rough , uncivilized Albanians isn't it so ???


First '"you albanians" doesnt apply to me.
Second the case of Kosovo is not like Epirus one.
Third Albanians will never claim Greek land.
Forth Albanians are not slavics, they will find the modalities for the CAM issue without hostility unless the Greeks ask for it.

[Andrew]

Its hard for me to define what the term 'Greek' means in ancient time. As far as I know Greeks were called the ARRIAN migration of a momadic tribe represented by the DORIANS and/or HERACLIDES.
The semi-arrian tribes of Ionians and Athenians were NOT Greeks.

also

Its hard for me to find any difference betwen Greeks and Illyrians.




First '"you albanians" doesnt apply to me.
Second the case of Kosovo is not like Epirus one.
Third Albanians will never claim Greek land.
Forth Albanians are not slavics, they will find the modalities for the CAM issue without hostility unless the Greeks ask for it.

I neversaid that Albanians are Slavs ...
To define Greeks see Hybridation process happened around 2000BC between the pre-Greeks (AEGIANS like Pelasgian,Cares,Leleges , speakers of Asia Minor languages and creator of the Aegian Culture ..Cycladitic,Minoan..) and
the proto-Greeks (nomad indoeuropean goatherds that brought the sructure of the greek language to greek soil ..and by the way their first station was north Epeirus and western Macedonia).

The Aegians offered the Culture and the Aegian termonology and the Indoeuropeans offered language structure ,polemophily , patriarchal society.
That unique combination , that fertile instance ,is called "hellenogenesis".

[Andrew]

INDOEUROPEAN MIGRATION

1) "Kurgans" are the PALEOINDOEUROPEANS that started from Caucasus and were IE "setum" speakers
2) Before arriving the eastern Danube they gave Scythic and Arrian clusters
3)Passing Danube in his eastern extremity were divided in Centum/Setum speakers
4) Setum speakers in europe were the Thracians , Mysians and Trojans who also went to Asia minor.
5) The Centum Cluster walked to west and near by todays Belgrad gave a firts group ..the ProtoGreeks who finished in south Albania-NorthEpeirus andWestern Macedonia
6)The other centum speakers moved north and the next divisions were made at the recess of the Adriatic Sea among : Proto-Illyrians , Proto-Italians and Proto-Celts.
The Proto-Illyrians settled first in Glasinac (Bosnia-Herzegovina) and then came more south...
..In the mean while the ProtoGreeks had already been fused with the Aegian PreGreeks and the Hellenic race was already formed.
If this image helps ..it is based on the "Kurgan hypothesis" spread of the IE languages.

http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/937/iemigrationcb5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)



A little summary of my research till now ..

[Flipper]

Hi Boreans and welcome!

Its hard for me to define what the term 'Greek' means in ancient time.


Grote said that the Olympic games is the start of what Greek means as an ethnic term.


As far as I know Greeks were called the ARRIAN migration of a momadic tribe represented by the DORIANS and/or HERACLIDES.


No, the Dorians are know as the "Return of the Heraklides".


The semi-arrian tribes of Ionians and Athenians were NOT Greeks.


Why did the Athenians call themselves "true Hellenes" then? I know Ionians are autochthonus but that doesn't make them Illyrians (who bordered the Greeks around the 10th century BC). First, you have the proto-Ionic dialect which is together with Arcadocypriot a direct derivation of Mycenaean Greek. Second, the placenames of some Ionian places are clearly Anatolian. Their possesive forms are Luwian/Hittite not to mention words like "melissa", "parnassos", "alas", "thalassa". The grouping of Greek with Armenian and Phrygian is not a coinsidence. If Greeks arrived like Illyrians from the Danube river the Phrygian, Luwian, Armenian, Carian etc connections would not be applicable.

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb193/bboyflipper/map1-1.png

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb193/bboyflipper/Luwian_invation_im.gif




also

Its hard for me to find any difference betwen Greeks and Illyrians.



Because you're not familiar with Archeological terms like Hallstatt. The Illyrians belonged to that material culture but gradually adopted the material culture of Greeks and Thracians.

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb193/bboyflipper/mahr-1.jpg

[Flipper]

Also this will answer most of your questions...


From: Cambridge Ancient History

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb193/bboyflipper/CambridgeAncientHistory.gif

[Cadmus]

Boreans wrote:


Forth Albanians are not slavics

Can you explain the vast amount of Slavic names for settlements like towns villages etc in Albania..??How come you claim that Albania is not Slavic because they don't speak the language only?
Can you support that with more proof?

Ahmm Flipper the cambridge ancient history book i found that it contains some errors to some extent, example Lychnidos has no Illyrian typical progenitor fot the city..you had Encheleans and Peresadyes and possibly Bryges (all no true Illyrians)inhabiting the areas long before Bardylis and his successors, although it switched hands on Greek/Illyrian occasions.

[Flipper]

you had Encheleans and Peresadyes and possibly Bryges (all no true Illyrians)inhabiting the areas long before Bardylis and his successors, although it switched hands on Greek/Illyrian occasions.

The Bryges were Phrygians (sound change of Φ to B in certain western greek dialects) who got probably Illyrized during some period. That's why the term Thraco-Illyrian was used for certain regions. However, when the Bryges settled there around 1200BC or ealier there were no Illyrians in the area.

[boreans79]

Hi Boreans and welcome!]

You must be a nice guy, cose you are the only welcoming me, thank you



Because you're not familiar with Archeological terms like Hallstatt.

and a... funny guy, very funny indeed

[boreans79]

Can you explain the vast amount of Slavic names for settlements like towns villages etc in Albania..???.

I can of course, Albania has suffered long occupations from slavs, Bulgarians, Serbians, and them(the slavs) had the bad habit to name everything in their language, usully adding the ending ic . However, no slavic eponimes before 6-7 century AD which match the arriving of slavs in Balcan.

How come you claim that Albania is not Slavic because they don't speak the language only?
Can you support that with more proof?.

If you are making the "clever" assumption that Albanians are slavics you would be the first and totally unable to back up this theory with evidences.


Ahmm Flipper the cambridge ancient history book i found that it contains some errors to some extent, example Lychnidos has no Illyrian typical progenitor fot the city..you had Encheleans and Peresadyes and possibly Bryges (all no true Illyrians)inhabiting the areas long before Bardylis and his successors, although it switched hands on Greek/Illyrian occasions.

1. Encheleans are Illyrians

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/1121/pseudoskylax1gd0.png

No, the Dorians are know as the "Return of the Heraklides". ?.

Yes Heraclides which belong to the Illyric people were returning back in their Home :Peloponnesus

2. Bryges are Illyrians

STRABO 7.7.327

The Amphilochians are Epeirotes; and so are the peoples who are situated above them and border on the Illyrian mountains, inhabiting a rugged country--I mean the Molossi, the Athamanes, the Aethices, the Tymphaei, the Orestae, and also the Paroraei and the Atintanes, some of them being nearer to the Macedonians and others to the Ionian Gulf. It is said that Orestes once took possession of Orestias--when is, exile on account of the murder of his mother--and left the country bearing his name; and that he also founded a city and called it Argos Oresticum. But the Illyrian tribes which are near the southern part of the mountainous country and those which are above the Ionian Gulf are intermingled with these peoples; for above Epidamnus and Apollonia as far as the Ceraunian Mountains dwell the Bylliones, the Taulantii, the Parthini, and the Brygi.

[Cadmus]

Encheleans were an original Greek tribe with Greek royalty line before their major decline in the 5th c.B.C.


http://www.macedoniaontheweb.com/forum/world-history-politics/2094-encheleans.html

later they became Illyricised.lost their culture en prosperity due to their Illyrian annexation.

If you are making the "clever" assumption that Albanians are slavics you would be the first and totally unable to back up this theory with evidences.



Yes i can't..neither can you back up the claim Albanians are the descendants of Illyrians..and thing is many Slavic names are present in Albania so is their blood/genes..only the language did not survive..so would that make them more Illyrian or Slavic ? or Greek ????What are they ? the same Allbanians as the Caucasian Albanians? because assuming they got their name from one single city once called Albanopolis is ridiculous.

2. Bryges are Illyrians

STRABO 7.7.327

The Amphilochians are Epeirotes; and so are the peoples who are situated above them and border on the Illyrian mountains, inhabiting a rugged country--I mean the Molossi, the Athamanes, the Aethices, the Tymphaei, the Orestae, and also the Paroraei and the Atintanes, some of them being nearer to the Macedonians and others to the Ionian Gulf. It is said that Orestes once took possession of Orestias--when is, exile on account of the murder of his mother--and left the country bearing his name; and that he also founded a city and called it Argos Oresticum. But the Illyrian tribes which are near the southern part of the mountainous country and those which are above the Ionian Gulf are intermingled with these peoples; for above Epidamnus and Apollonia as far as the Ceraunian Mountains dwell the Bylliones, the Taulantii, the Parthini, and the Brygi.
Today 05:24 AM


Those Bryges were a left over community stuck in that area and became Illyricised, they were initially not!

You also have the Bryges in the northwestern part of Pelagonia in the mountainous areas with their city Bryghias were they Illyrians? no they weren't they were culturally still intact (and did not became Illyrians) like their predecessors who left for Anatolia to become the Phryges.

They were more Macedonian then Illyrian and belonged to the Thraco-Bryghian tribes like the Ichnai and Lete and Tyntenoi, they were the left over of the once powerfull Bryghes.

[boreans79]

Yes i can't..neither can you back up the claim Albanians are the descendants of Illyrians..and thing is many Slavic names are present in Albania so is their blood/genes..only the language did not survive..so would that make them more Illyrian or Slavic ? or Greek ????What are they ? the same Allbanians as the Caucasian Albanians? because assuming they got their name from one single city once called Albanopolis is ridiculous.



I want to say that my understanding for the ancient people is much wider than the regular folks and most of history studier ones.
I beleive that both Ancient Greeks[Dorians] and Illyrians were one solid Arrian race who mixed up with another race similar to them but semi-Arrian whose name was Pelasgians. There are many small details to disscus.

As for the connection betwen Illyrians and Albanians it is nothing to prove for the supporters of this theory.
Its job of the people who oppose this theory to give us proves that Albanians are not descendents of the ancient habitants of their land.
If you have some, just open a new thread and let disscus.

[Andrew]

I want to say that my understanding for the ancient people is much wider than the regular folks and most of history studier ones.
I beleive that both Ancient Greeks[Dorians] and Illyrians were one solid Arrian race who mixed up with another race similar to them but semi-Arrian whose name was Pelasgians. There are many small details to disscus.

As for the connection betwen Illyrians and Albanians it is nothing to prove for the supporters of this theory.
Its job of the people who oppose this theory to give us proves that Albanians are not descendents of the ancient habitants of their land.
If you have some, just open a new thread and let disscus.

Boreans79 , I'm not saying that albanians are not descending from ancient population . I'm just showing you some stuff and I would be glad if you answered to me ..thanks:
1) Ptolemy the Geographer does mention a city named Albanopolis
2) Pelasgians were not IE nor semi-IE . They were pre-IE that came from Asia Minor about 8000BC bringing with them agriculture revolution in the Balkans and the Mediterranean ...After the arrival of the IE they became ingredient of almost all south European ancient nations.
2) Arrians never made it to Europe they were a Satem IE branch that went towards Iran and India. The only Satem speakers in Europe were the Thracians and the Scythians (them in the limits with Asia).
3) Illyrians spoke a Centum IE language meanwhile the Albanian language is a Setum one so many scholars think of a Thracian-Dacian descent .
What do you think ?

[boreans79]

Boreans79 , I'm not saying that albanians are not descending from ancient population . I'm just showing you some stuff and I would be glad if you answered to me ..thanks:
1) Ptolemy the Geographer does mention a city named Albanopolis?
Alba was a very popular name in antiquity, tracing the history only by this name could lead us in unrepairable mistake. Also all the Roman race was called in ancient time Albans who are beleived to be the Trojans who settled in Epirus first with the son of Priam Helenus.
And even the old native population of Latins were called Albanenses.
Like I said no conclusions.

2) Pelasgians were not IE nor semi-IE . They were pre-IE that came from Asia Minor about 8000BC bringing with them agriculture revolution in the Balkans and the Mediterranean ...After the arrival of the IE they became ingredient of almost all south European ancient nations.?

Until now archeology has been unable to prove what are the Pelasgians. In my opinion their language was the language of Ancient Greeks(or even wider) until the KOINE was created. The greeks didnt bring the language with them. They found it there. (forget Herodotus)
Lingustic too.

2) Arrians never made it to Europe they were a Satem IE branch that went towards Iran and India. The only Satem speakers in Europe were the Thracians and the Scythians (them in the limits with Asia).?Illyrians spoke a Centum IE language meanwhile the Albanian language is a Setum one so many scholars think of a Thracian-Dacian descent .
What do you think

The difference betwen Satem and centum consists in the using of labiovelars, velars, and palatovelars. Its quite imposible to prove the character of the extint languages like Illyrian and Thracians based only on issoglotes. So again no conclusion.

[Flipper]

You must be a nice guy, cose you are the only welcoming me, thank you


You're welcome. This is my house, that's the way i should be.


and a... funny guy, very funny indeed

Those tactics will not work.

[Flipper]

1. Encheleans are Illyrians

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/1121/pseudoskylax1gd0.png



The same author let us know that in Chaonia the Illyrian terretory fades out.


And after the Illyrians, the Chaonian nation.



Yes Heraclides which belong to the Illyric people were returning back in their Home :Peloponnesus


:huh:


2. Bryges are Illyrians

STRABO 7.7.327

The Amphilochians are Epeirotes; and so are the peoples who are situated above them and border on the Illyrian mountains, inhabiting a rugged country--I mean the Molossi, the Athamanes, the Aethices, the Tymphaei, the Orestae, and also the Paroraei and the Atintanes, some of them being nearer to the Macedonians and others to the Ionian Gulf. It is said that Orestes once took possession of Orestias--when is, exile on account of the murder of his mother--and left the country bearing his name; and that he also founded a city and called it Argos Oresticum. But the Illyrian tribes which are near the southern part of the mountainous country and those which are above the Ionian Gulf are intermingled with these peoples; for above Epidamnus and Apollonia as far as the Ceraunian Mountains dwell the Bylliones, the Taulantii, the Parthini, and the Brygi.

First from your quote you can see where the borders go again. You can see that in certain areas people intermingled.

Second...The term Βρύγες is a western Greek distortion of Φρύγες. The Φ turns to Β in many cases. The Brygoi was a Phrygian tribe that headed west when the Phrygians founded their Kindom in Anatolia back in 1200BC. In the time of Strabo they were for sure Illyrized and therefore Illyrians, but that does not change the fact that their early material culture is Phrygian and not Illyrian. The earliest cementaries in the area are Phrygian while during the 9th century Illyrian presence takes over. A similar example are the Carians. They are a branch of Luwians that became Hellenized.

So, the Brygians are basically what some call Thraco Illyrians.

The Thracian influence on the Albanian language is clear in some cases: The Dacian words like möter (sister), avull(steam), baci(shepherd), bajge (dung), balta (alb Balte, pool), bradh (Alb. bredh, fir) to name few were adopted. Not to forget the word buke (bread) which derives from the Phrygian "bekos".

[boreans79]

Second...The term Βρύγες is a western Greek distortion of Φρύγες. The Φ turns to Β in many cases. The Brygoi was a Phrygian tribe that headed west when the Phrygians founded their Kindom in Anatolia back in 1200BC. In the time of Strabo they were for sure Illyrized and therefore Illyrians, but that does not change the fact that their early material culture is Phrygian and not Illyrian. The earliest cementaries in the area are Phrygian while during the 9th century Illyrian presence takes over. A similar example are the Carians. They are a branch of Luwians that became Hellenized.

So, the Brygians are basically what some call Thraco Illyrians.

The Thracian influence on the Albanian language is clear in some cases: The Dacian words like möter (sister), avull(steam), baci(shepherd), bajge (dung), balta (alb Balte, pool), bradh (Alb. bredh, fir) to name few were adopted. Not to forget the word buke (bread) which derives from the Phrygian "bekos".

In general I agree with you. Some small objection like the word "influence" or the "big gap you rule betwen Phrygians and Illyrians" or "thracian and Illyrians" or the "material culture very different" , "dacian words and not Illyrian ones" but anyway... good.

[boreans79]

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/1121/pseudoskylax1gd0.png


The same author let us know that in Chaonia the Illyrian terretory fades out.



What about greeks then? What does it say next page?
Where does the Greece begin? let see

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/1899/pseudoskylax2uj2.png

[Flipper]

In general I agree with you. Some small objection like the word "influence" or the "big gap you rule betwen Phrygians and Illyrians" or "thracian and Illyrians" or the "material culture very different" , "dacian words and not Illyrian ones" but anyway... good.

Seriously speaking, one of the questions nowadays is if Albanian is Illyrian with heavy Dacian influence or if it is a result of a possible Dacian migration that created a phenomenon like the Pamphylian dialect of Greek in Anatolia. I mean if Albanian is actually Dacian heavily influenced by Illyrian.

We can't possibly know, since the Dacians adopted latin and the Illyrian words recorded through history are few.

The same thing has basically happened in every place where fusions of languages appear. Greece, Albania, Italy, Romania, Britain, Spain etc are no exceptions.

[boreans79]

Seriously speaking, one of the questions nowadays is if Albanian is Illyrian with heavy Dacian influence or if it is a result of a possible Dacian migration that created a phenomenon like the Pamphylian dialect of Greek in Anatolia. I mean if Albanian is actually Dacian heavily influenced by Illyrian.

We can't possibly know, since the Dacians adopted latin and the Illyrian words recorded through history are few.

The same thing has basically happened in every place where fusions of languages appear. Greece, Albania, Italy, Romania, Britain, Spain etc are no exceptions.


Flipper see you another day. Good to meet you here.

[Flipper]

What about greeks then? What does it say next page?
Where does the Greece begin? let see

http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/1899/pseudoskylax2uj2.png

Above Orichos Greeks fade out and below Orichos the Illyrians fade out. Already in Corcyra you have Greeks. In between southern Epirus and Illiricum you have people who settled from Anatolia and Thrace after the Trojan war e.g the Chaonians who became Hellenized.

Skylax mentions continuity, not start as you can see. Look also at the term Molossos. The term has an anatolian possesive form. Anatolia is the main spring for the Helladic cultures.

[Flipper]

Flipper see you another day. Good to meet you here.

You're welcome.
Take care for now. :)

[Andrew]

I'm pretty sure that you know that "HELLAS" was a geographic term ...
..In Iliad "Hellenes" are ONLY Achilles Followers , but every Achean Spoke Greek (Hellenophon") ..isn't it right ??

And to conclude . I don't say that NW Greeks haven't coninhabited with Illyrians . I only say that Greeks came to Greece about 2000-1800 BC.
Illyrians came after 1100 BC ...so that gives us at least 500 years since hellenogenesis began ...No??
When the Illyrians came the Greeks had already an Identity , although the
manners of life (nomads) and Cluster-Tribe-SubTribe subdivisions were common in all the Balkan area and I remember Hammond's frase that "nomadic subtribes maintained their identity by endogamy".Occasionaly only interroyal marriages occured for political purpushes.
And before the Illyrians (Glasinac culture) came the Phrygians (Lausitz culture) about 1200 BC settled from Adriatic to Asia Minor . And it was the Illyrians who drove them permanetly in Asia Minor.

[Flipper]

I'm pretty sure that you know that "HELLAS" was a geographic term ...
..In Iliad "Hellenes" are ONLY Achilles Followers , but every Achean Spoke Greek (Hellenophon") ..isn't it right ??

And to conclude . I don't say that NW Greeks haven't coninhabited with Illyrians . I only say that Greeks came to Greece about 2000-1800 BC.
Illyrians came after 1100 BC ...so that gives us at least 500 years since hellenogenesis began ...No??
When the Illyrians came the Greeks had already an Identity , although the
manners of life (nomads) and Cluster-Tribe-SubTribe subdivisions were common in all the Balkan area and I remember Hammond's frase that "nomadic subtribes maintained their identity by endogamy".Occasionaly only interroyal marriages occured for political purpushes.
And before the Illyrians (Glasinac culture) came the Phrygians (Lausitz culture) about 1200 BC settled from Adriatic to Asia Minor . And it was the Illyrians who drove them permanetly in Asia Minor.

Basically the classical Greeks were a fusion of Anatolian people (and earlier afroasiatic people of the mesolithic era) of a common linguistic origin that arrived in between big timeframes and ended up to adopt the culture of the last invasion. Many speak of the Luwian invasion of Greece. The proto-Greeks might have been just an isolated anatolian branch of people who became though superior and were able to conquer the proto-Anatolian people that were inhabiting the Helladic area. Their number might have not been great at all but just like the Avars vs Slavs they succeeded. The Hittite spoke of the people of Ahhiyawa/Achiyawa. Skylax who boreans quoted mentions the Acheans inhabiting in inner Aeolia and Bithynia.


KERKETAI. And after Sindikos harbour the Kerketai nation.
TORETAI. And after Kerketai, the Toretai nation] and a Hellenic a city, Torikos, with a harbour.
ACHAIANS. And after Toretai, the Achaian nation.


I showed recently some maps of Ancient Greece and the placenames to a swedish linguist. He was certain everything points out to an invasion from Anatolia.

We should not confuse the language with Hellenes. Hellenes were initially tribal organizations that adopted the heroic name for religious reasons. That's why the Greki and Selloi in Dodona, who had a religious character were the first to do it. You can basically see similar behaviour into the pre-colombian tribes of america.

Now about Greeks and Illyrians, I have been saying the same thing for years. There's a big timegap between the meeting of these people. Also, many tend to forget the pre-Illyrian Vucedols who were probably non IE.Also, lets not forget that Illyrian history does not start in Albania. It ends there. The Illyrians produced early culture in the north up to Austria.

[olvios]

From page one we have off topic posts and now 5 pages full of trash
This was the topic
The Greek dialect of Epeirotes.

[olvios]

I want to say that my understanding for the ancient people is much wider than the regular folks and most of history studier ones.
I beleive that both Ancient Greeks[Dorians] and Illyrians were one solid Arrian race who mixed up with another race similar to them but semi-Arrian whose name was Pelasgians. There are many small details to disscus.

As for the connection betwen Illyrians and Albanians it is nothing to prove for the supporters of this theory.
Its job of the people who oppose this theory to give us proves that Albanians are not descendents of the ancient habitants of their land.
If you have some, just open a new thread and let disscus.

There is no "arian" race:mad:and Albanians have nothing to do with Ancient Greeks or Pelasgians and the Illyrian link is quite impossible as well.

The lack of ancient Greek loans in Albanian is disputed (see Hemp; Cabej). It is unanimously admitted however, that if they are present, they are very rare (Hemp, Cabej).

[Andrew]

By Fliper :
Basically the classical Greeks were a fusion of Anatolian people (and earlier afroasiatic people of the mesolithic era) of a common linguistic origin that arrived in between big timeframes and ended up to adopt the culture of the last invasion

Flipper one question only . Only Anatolian mixture ???
I know that pre-Greeks were Anatolians/Asia Minor (Pelasgoi,Leleges,Cares..)
And they named much of the coastal toponyms as they were the first to came...
But I'm asking you : to have a centum IE language later (and Greek is a centum IE language ,no ??) you need centum IE invaders , no ?? . Centum was spoken only by "european"(Danubian) invaders no ?? Setum on the other hand was ALSO expanded to Asia..

I see "hellenogenenis" as proto-Greek (a cluster of centum IE , came last after 2000 BC) - pre-Greek (your Anatolians , Luwians ..what ever) hybridation . After that mix we have Greeks isn't that right ?? Or did I misted something ??If I misted something please tell me...

[Cadmus]

There is no "arian" race:mad:and Albanians have nothing to do with Ancient Greeks or Pelasgians and the Illyrian link is quite impossible as well.

The lack of ancient Greek loans in Albanian is disputed (see Hemp; Cabej). It is unanimously admitted however, that if they are present, they are very rare (Hemp, Cabej).

Good to have you back Olvios discussing about those ridiculous Albanian-Illyrian legacy!

It's becoming tyring for me to repeat the same over and over again.

[olvios]

They are hopeless.

[boreans79]

There is no "arian" race:mad:and Albanians have nothing to do with Ancient Greeks or Pelasgians and the Illyrian link is quite impossible as well.

The lack of ancient Greek loans in Albanian is disputed (see Hemp; Cabej). It is unanimously admitted however, that if they are present, they are very rare (Hemp, Cabej).

I dont know what you are, more stupid than liar. You are the disgrace of this forum .

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/9013/dhimiterpilika1bv4.jpg

http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/923/dhimiterpilika1bb3.jpg

[boreans79]

They are hopeless.

Hej idiot
http://www.geocities.com/agimzeneli/etymology2

there are more than 1000 words from Illyria, Epirus and Greece ruled out as Albanian words from German linguists, other Europian linguists and CABEJ.

[kostas68]

Hej idiot
http://www.geocities.com/agimzeneli/etymology2

there are more than 1000 words from Illyria, Epirus and Greece ruled out as Albanian words from German linguists, other Europian linguists and CABEJ.

Who is the German linguist who gives the etymology?Maybe this Agim Zeneli?How German it sounds!Or this Agim Zeneli is one of the <other European linguists>?Yes,you're right!All European languages origin from the Albanian <mother language>!

[olvios]

That book is from Dimitri Plika which is fringe theory trash just like all the other posting you made.:dry:

[olvios]

The lack of ancient Greek loans in Albanian is disputed (see Hemp; Cabej). It is unanimously admitted however, that if they are present, they are very rare (Hemp, Cabej).

[kostas68]

That book is from Dimitri Plika which is fringe theory trash just like all the other posting you made.:dry:

This sounds like a Vlach name.Another yenitsaros perhaps?

[olvios]

They were Greeks stop spamming us with ultranationalist albanian fringe theories

Quote: "these conclusions to the evidence of archaeology, the following picture emerges. The first Greek-speaking peoples settled in Macedonia, Thessaly, and Epirus after c. 2500, and in these areas they developed different dialects". A History of Greece to 322 B.C.by N. G. L. Hammond .ISBN-10: 0198730950,page 56,1986

The western mountains were peopled by the Molossians (the western Greeks of Epirus), tribes of non-Argead Macedonians, and other populations." E.N.Borza "In the shadow of Olympus; The emergence of Macedon" (revised edition, 1992), page 98

The Molossians were the strongest and, decisive for Macedonia, most easterly of the three most important Epeirot tribes, which, like Macedonia but unlike the Thesprotians and the Chaonians, still retained their monarchy. They were Greeks, spoke a similar dialect to that of Macedonia, suffered just as much from the depredations of the Illyrians and were in principle the natural partners of the Macedonian king who wished to tackle the Illyrian problem at its roots." Malcolm Errington, "A History of Macedonia", California University Press, 1990.

Epirus in Mycynaean era

A Historical Greek Reader: Mycenaean to the Koine,by Stephen Colvin,ISBN-10: 0199226601,2008,Page 40,"... (innovations) until the post-Mycenaean period.' In the late second millennium the proto- Aeolians seem to have occupied the regions between Epirus and Thessaly, ..."


Prehistory and History by David W. Tandy ,ISBN-10: 1551641887,2001,Page 4,"... 9mbracian V r 0 10 20 30 km I Gulf 32 Figure 1: Map of Epirus showing the locations of known sites with Mycenaean remains. ..."

Prehistory and History by David W. Tandy ,ISBN-10: 1551641887,2001,Page 6: "... and the mechanisms by which such interactions took place. The strongest evidence for Mycenaean presence in Epirus is found in the coastal zone of the lower Acheron River, ..."

Prehistory and History by David W. Tandy ,ISBN-10: 1551641887,2001,Page 17: "... The Mycenaean Presence in Southwestern Epirus Taking into account the discoveries of the Nikopolis Project, remains of Mycenaean provenience or inspiration are known

Prehistory and History by David W. Tandy ,ISBN-10: 1551641887,2001,Page 18: "... and more gently on the south and west. From this acropolis-like settlement comes the strongest evidence for Mycenaean presence in Epirus. A circuit wall employing Cyclopean masonry, muCh of which can still be traced, ..."


Prehistory and History by David W. Tandy ,ISBN-10: 1551641887,2001,Page 22: "... a fragmentary condition, it appears that the assemblage conforms in chronological and formal terms to Mycenaean pottery already known from Epirus. The kylix is the most commonly identifiable shape, with fewer sherds belonging to stirrup jars, kraters, cups, and other shapes. ..."

Prehistory and History by David W. Tandy ,ISBN-10: 1551641887,2001,Page 23: "... at Mazaraki in the interior of northern Epirus, of Aegean pottery and bronze objects as burial goods in Gist graves (Wardle 1977, 177, fig. 10 nos. 476, 477; ...


Prehistory and History by David W. Tandy ,ISBN-10: 1551641887,2001, Page 24: "... There is no reason to imagine that these constructions in Epirus would have been among the first, although construction dates in the first half of LH IIIB are not unlikely. ..."

Prehistory and History by David W. Tandy ,ISBN-10: 1551641887,2001,Page 27: "... GLYKYS LIMIN /23 of domesticated cattle are found in excavated contexts in Epirus from late Neolithic times (Douzough and Zachos 1994, 17); Ephyra and the adjacent Nekyomanteion site have produced them alongside those ..."

Prehistory and History by David W. Tandy ,ISBN-10: 1551641887,2001,Page 30: "... or luxury items of Mycenaean type-imported pottery and bronze weapons and utilitarian objects-were deposited primarily in graves and hoards throughout Epirus, ...

Prehistory and History by David W. Tandy ,ISBN-10: 1551641887,2001,Page 34: "... desires of those who possessed them to constrain or mobilize social action. In the case of Mycenaean engagement in coastal Epirus, ..."

Prehistory and History by David W. Tandy ,ISBN-10: 1551641887,2001,Table of Contents: "... A Mycenaean Port of Trade in Southern Epirus?

Greeks and Pre-Greeks: Aegean Prehistory and Greek Heroic Tradition
Margalit Finkelberg,ISBN-10: 0521852161,2005

Page 133:
"... which was spoken in West Thessaly (Thessaliotis), while Boeotian was in turn connected with Northwest Greek, which was spoken in Epirus. ..."

[TirAlb]

Who is the German linguist who gives the etymology?Maybe this Agim Zeneli?How German it sounds!Or this Agim Zeneli is one of the <other European linguists>?Yes,you're right!All European languages origin from the Albanian <mother language>!

Who is Agim Zeneli now,you have the names on the right sides of the pages.Is a good habit to read before speaking

[olvios]

Who is Agim Zeneli now,you have the names on the right sides of the pages.Is a good habit to read before speaking

Trash like that which boreans claims belong in a thread called "Albanian nationalist trash fantasies".

Not in this thread or threads.:mad:

[TirAlb]

The lack of ancient Greek loans in Albanian is disputed (see Hemp; Cabej). It is unanimously admitted however, that if they are present, they are very rare (Hemp, Cabej).


You are just spamming your self with this and many other "quotes".

[olvios]

You are just spamming your self with this and many other "quotes".


:dry:

[kostas68]

Who is Agim Zeneli now,you have the names on the right sides of the pages.Is a good habit to read before speaking

I don't mean the author of the book which scaned and quoted your compatriot(allthough i think that he declined in an older post that he is Albanian) boreans.I'm not blind and i saw that his name was Dhimitri Plika.I mean the linguist who gives the etymologies in the link below.Boreans said that these etymologies are from Germans and other European linguists,but i noticed only an Albanian name in the URL line.

http://www.geocities.com/agimzeneli/etymology2

So,i agree with you that it's a good habit to read before speaking,but better is to watch carefully the whole thread.

[olvios]

Other then this thread been ruined that idiotic site claims among other things.....

"Who were Dorian tribes? Dorians were Celtic tribes who worshipped trees".:band:

[olvios]

An Albanian fantasy nationalist book...full of lies and fringe theory bs...

Pellazgët: origjina jonë e mohuar : cilët janë pasardhësit e pellazgëve
by Dhimitri Pilika,2005,

Claiming Albanians are Pelasgians and like any pan-aryan racist theory a claim to Greek culture and history and whatever else you want through revanchism,typical ultranationalist racist crap:rolleyes:.........

Pelasgians were Greeks in Ancient Greece and now an umbrella term used for neolithic people for the most part.

Dionysius of Halicarnassus in several pages gives a synoptic interpretation of the Pelasgians based on the sources available to him then:

Afterwards some of the Pelasgians who inhabited Thessaly, as it is now called, being obliged to leave their country, settled among the Aborigines and jointly with them made war upon the Sicels. It is possible that the Aborigines received them partly in the hope of gaining their assistance, but I believe it was chiefly on account of their kinship; for the Pelasgians, too, were a Greek nation originally from the Peloponnesus ...

Dionysius of Halicarnassus,Roman Antiquities,p29,Book I