Ancient Macedonian language (provisional ISO-DIS 639-3.5 XMK).
Subgrouping Code : Ancient Greek language or IEGreekB
Group code: Greek Language or IEGreek.


more in Linguistics.org (http://cf.linguistlist.org/cfdocs/new-website/LL-WorkingDirs/forms/langs/LLDescription.cfm?code=xmk)


A great thanks in Pella Katadesmos

Some years back,a German linguist by the name Otto Hoffman wrote a book with the title "Makedonians, their language and their Ethnicity". Hoffman analyzed the paradoxical or idiomatic words (calling them languages),which past grammaticals,lexicographers and more in general everyone engaged around the Hellenic language had noted them as "worthy to be analyzed" in Makedonia.

To begin with,all those people were believing that the Makedonian language was an Hellenic dialect, and exactly this is the reason mentioning certain of its peculiarities, had they believe that the Makedonian language was alien to that Hellenic one, there was not a reason mentioning those Makedonian paradoxical and/or idiomatic "languages". According to the same Hoffman his conclusions after "supervising" other peoples work are the following:

""And now after supervising the ancient Makedonian linguistic thesaurus we are posting the decisive question,if what is adding to the Makedonian language its character,are the hellenic or the barbarian elements of it,the responce can not be of any doubts. From the 39 "languages" that according to Gustav Mayer their form was "completely alien" has been proven after this research of mine,that 10 of them are clearly Hellenic,with 4 more possibly dialectical forms of common hellenic words,so from the entire collection are remaining only 15 words appearing to be justifiable or at least suspected of anti-hellenic origins.Adding to those 15, few others which with regards their vocals could be hellenic,without till now being confirmed as such,then their number, in comparison to the number of pure hellenic ones in the Makedonian language,is so small that the GENERAL HELLENIC CHARACTER OF THE MAKEDONIAN LINGUISTIC TREASURE CAN NOT BE DOUBTED.

The important thing about the Makedonian language is the fact that the alien and foreign to the Hellenic language words in it, are limited in a very narrow circle of objects and thoughts. Prominent as groups are those of names for plants,animals,foods,drinks,wa*r and fighting items and various names of dressing items. However in the Makedonian language there is absolutely not one barbarian word having relation to the governing of the society,military or confering justice. There is the worshipping of the ancient god Savadion,same as the one for the ancient Hellenic Gods,after which the Makedonian named the months of the year.

In Hellas we had the meeting of two civilizations, from which the superior one, that Hellenic represented by the Kings and the nobles became the base for the Makedonian society. Was this Hellenic civilization a pure Makedonian one or it was imported in the country from outside? Are the Hellenic words in the Makedonian language pure Makedonians or they were accepted as loans from the Hellenic? If such loaning happened, it must have happened in very old times. The already mentioned ""languages"" are not derived from the Attick dialect or the "Common-Koinh" Hellenic one. Not only this, but they are not connected with the Attick dialect that was "imported" by Phillip and Alexander in their society and political organization. Those words are formed in an extremely ancient manner,they are to be found just in Makedonia and they are very dialectical. Such statement is especially important. If somehow we can define and connect those Macedonian "languages" with a specific hellenic dialect,then we have a solid base for their definition.

The fact that the ancient Makedonian history is guarded with distrust might be somehow justified to partial ignorance of that early Makedonian history. However once in Makedonia time arrived for the reigning of Alexander the 1st and Archelaos, the mood has been changed. There is the first connection-contact between Amyntas the 1st and Hippias an Hellene (Herodotus 5-92g) in the land of Anthemus (Herodotus 5-94).......

""Before he went,Amyntas of Macedon offered him Anthemus,and the Thessalians Iolcus..............."

Next comes the close relation of Alexander the 1st and 2nd, Macedon's and Amyntas' sons and the Hellenes. One participates in the Olympic games ( Herodotus 5-22) Amyntas' son favors the Hellenes in their wars against the Persians.(Herodotus 9-44,45).

Alexander, Amyntas' son becomes in 480 B.C honorable citizen,console and beneficiary (Herodotus 8-136) ".....secondly,becaue he was well aware that Alexander's friendship with Athens was an official relation,and was backed by deeds."".............. Perdikkas is ally and friend of the Athenians (Thukididis 1-57), "..............and Perdikkas son of Alexandros,king of Macedon,formerly an ally and friend,had been turned into an enemy.""........... Archelaos not only he maintains friendly political relations with Athens but he is also inviting Athenian poets in his court.Euripedes and Agathon spend in his court the last years of their lives, and as is the case with the SKOPIANS and the Bulgars these days and their so-called different languages, no translators were in need to translate from Greek to Makedonian.

Those Makedonian idiomatism-"languages" are proving one thing and one alone.That neither Athens or the Ionian cities brought to the Makedonians the Hellenic language,since in those dialects clearly exist the influence of the Thessalian dialect!

But in that case the Makedonian linguistic treasure should be accepted not only as a loan from the Thessalians, but an early one as well,since once in Makedonia the Athenian dialect arrived, the Thessalian one couldn't be consider as competitor.

With regards the names of the Royal House of the Argeades, Hoffman is stating: "" None of the names of the Royal House of the Argeades is of Barbarian origins,the roots of the words and their formation is HELLENIC IN EVERYTHING.Loan from the Hellenic Myth might be the name Orestes and possibly the name Menelaos""

Farther down Hoffman considers 40 names of official Makedonians found on an inscription from 423 B.C adding:

""In final analysis it is possible that the name VYRGINON KRASTWNOS is of Thracian origins,while independent remains the name DIRVE.....ALL the other names are BEAUTIFULL,CLEAR,HELLENIC CONSTRUCTIONS and only two of them NEOPTOLEMOS and MELEAGROS could have been loans from the HELLENIC MYTHOLOGY.

Hoffman considers the names of the populations of upper or Western Makedonia including the Orestians(Kastoria),Eordians(P*tolemais-Arnissa),Tymfaians(Pi*ndos-Konitsa), Elimiotians(Kozani),and Lyngestians(Florina-Monastiri. He considers and analyzes the names of the King's body-guards,of the generals,of the administrative employees,of the leaders of the Makedonian cavalry,the leaders of the name and army,and those of many other common people of the 5th and 4th and even later centuries. His conclusions?

""THE NAMES OF THE GENUINE MAKEDONIANS AND THOSE BORN OF MAKEDONIAN PARENTS ,ESPECIALLY THE NAMES OF THE ELITIC CLASS AND NOBLES,IN THEIR FORMATION AND PHONOLOGY ARE PURELY HELLENIC."


And he continues,,,
""The general Hellenic character of the Makedonians linguistic treasure can not be disputed even in case some of them might be loans from the Hellenic Mythology or from non-hellenic myths or for the better pre-hellenic myths (Teytamos-Marsyas-Seilinos....*).
The reason?Both Hellenic mythology and pre-hellenic SUCH,contributed many of their names not only in the Makedonian but as well in thegeneral hellenic vocabulary of names. Names that in their phonology and the laws governing their formations are
clearly different than those Thracians and Illyrians,and they can not even be used as "in between" those and the hellenic ones.

So.........if someone not agreeing with the Hellenism of the Makedonians,than naturally has to accept the fact that during the 6th and 5th centuries B.C,the Makedonians dropped their ......Makedonian names and they...........introduced the Hellenic ones substituting theirs!

However,if their names were their original ones and in such a way since the names are clearly hellenic and the Makedonians were of pure Hellenic origins,one MUST conclude that the hellenic linguistic treasure,was not taken as a loan from the Thessalians,but it was their own ETHNIC inheritance!

The Hellenic civilization and the Hellenic language did not migrated from Thessaly to alien nations,tribes,and races within the Makedonian lands.

To the question, what kind of language did the ancient Macedonians use, the answer can be given based on, what else, the existing references in ancient documents and the excavated inscriptions. What we have concluded is, that the ancient Macedonians were Hellenophon and the original dialect of the Hellenic language they used (Macedonian dialect) was very much similar to the Doric dialect (that is in accordance to Herodotus' references on the common origin of the Dorians and the Macedonians). Later on (hellenistic era) that dialect was gradually replaced by the Koini Attiki dialect, just like in all of the other Greek states. Every native Macedonian name, is Hellenic and is formed in the Hellenic way of producing words, as for example the names:

"Adista, Philista, Sostrata, Philotas, Perdikkas, Mahatas," and hundreds more

Every existing record of the Macedonian dialect (inscriptions, coins) proves that it is a Greek dialect and its style was different from the Ionian's. That alone proves that the Macedonians were not a hellenized group of people, but, they were an original Hellenic tribe. What leads us to that conclusion, is that if they where somehow hellenized, then that must have been caused by the colonies that other Greek states had on Macedonia's coasts, and which were ionian-speaking. So, if they were hellenized, as the historians of FYROM, sometimes claim (when it suits them best), then the Greek words in that "language" should have been produced by the "hellenization" and that means that they were supposed to be of the Ionian dialect, which they are not! Alos, many of the original non-Greek names and words would have remained in the later years, and would have been recorded. From the 75 names that have been recorded, only one, is of non-Greek origin (Amadokos), and which is of Thracian origin. That is very normal for a state neighboring foreign nations.

Also the Roman and Byzantine lexicographers and grammaticals used examples from the Macedonian dialect, to explain singularities of the Homeric poems, because it was closer to the Homeric dialect. Some terms, like the "hetairoi of the king", used in Macedonia for the horsemen, are found only in Homer, and had been retained only in the Macedonian dialect. The lexicographers wouldn't have used a non-Greek language to study Homer, would they?

And, of course, the strongest evidence of the Greekness of the Macedonian dialect are:

The excavated inscriptions, where you can find only Greek characters and words
The coins of Macedonia, where again you can find only Greek characters and words
The quotations of the ancient writers on the Macedonians' speech
The characteristics of the Macedonian dialect
Etoimology of some names in Macedonia

This article created in 1998. As you see the truth remain even had past 7 years!!!!

akritas

Characteristics of the ancient Macedonian Language


In the Macedonian language, we have substitution of the character -H with the character -A in many cases, just like in the Doric dialect. The male and female names ending in and -H, in the Attic dialect, obey to that rule, and have the -H transformed into an -A. An example of names produced that way are:

http://www.cc.ece.ntua.gr/~conster/English/PageData/Images/etoimology_h2a.gif

Another example of conversion of the letter -H to A, just like in the Doric dialect (but not by the same rule) is the production of the name Macedonia itself.



In compound words, where one component is the word laos (, meaning people), the last remains the same in the produced word, while in the ionian dialect, it is converted to leos (). For example, the names:
Archelaos (),
Pefkolaos (),
Laodiki ().



A characteristic that the Koini attic dialect (and modern Greek) has inherited from the Macedonian dialect is that male words ending in , in the second clause don't end in -OY, as they do in the attic dialect, but, in -A. For example, the names Kallias, Teleftias, Pausanias


The composer of the "Megalon Etoimologikon" marks, under the lemma Aphroditi, an observation of his predecessor Didimos. The extract mentions the relationship between the Greek phonems B (beta, pronounced as "V") and (phi, pronounced as "F"), using the Macedonian dialect as an example

The Ancient Cambridge History Book (Greece after the Persians Wars, ancient Hellenic language) mention as about the ancient Macedonian language:

Relative to the North-western dialect was the Macedonian with many Thracians and Illyrians elements. Sector of Dorian race, according Herodotus (7-56,8-43), the Macedonians subjugated the Thracians and the Illyrians tribes and it was natural that they adopts certain effects in their dialect from the languages of conquered peoples

Ancient Greek North Western dialect composed of from the spoken dialects that spoken in Epirus, Acarnania, Aitolia, Lochrida , Fokida and Macedonia.

Nicholas G. L. Hammond, a classicist, also suggested that Macedonian was a Greek dialect:

"What language did these `Macedones' speak? The name itself is Greek in root and in ethnic termination. It probably means `highlanders', and it is comparable to Greek tribal names such as `Orestai' and `Oreitai', mean­ing 'mountain-men'. A reputedly earlier variant, `Maketai', has the same root, which means `high', as in the Greek adjective makednos or the noun mekos... At the turn of the sixth century the Persians described the tribute-paying peoples of their province in Europe, and one of them was the `yauna takabara', which meant `Greeks wearing the hat'.

There were Greeks in Greek city-states here and there in the province, but they were of various origins and not distinguished by a common hat. However, the Macedonians wore a dis­tinctive hat, the kausia. We conclude that the Persians believed the Macedonians to be speakers of Greek.

Finally, in the latter part of the fifth century a Greek historian, Hellanicus, visited Macedonia and modi­fied Hesiod's genealogy by making Macedon not a cousin, but a son of Aeolus, thus bringing Macedon and his descendants firmly into the Aeolic branch of the Greek-speaking family. Hesiod, Persia, and Hellanicus had no motive for making a false statement about the language of the Macedonians, who were then an obscure and not a powerful people. Their independent testimonies should be accepted as conclusive."

The following are excerpts from a chapter (written by the editor) on the Macedonian Tongue taken from the book
"Macedonia: 4000 years of Greek history and civilization"
edited by Professor M. B. Sakellariou and published by EKDOTIKI ATHINON.


When i need to write something in Greek I use the following convention:
g for gamma
h for eta
j for ksi
y for upsilon
c for psi
v for omega
thus the greek alphabet becomes
abgdezhuiklmnjoprstyfxcv.


Various pointers to references are omitted.


The Macedonian Tongue (excerpts from pages 54-63)
-------------------------------------------------

The earliest Macedonian written documents contain only names. When more extensive Macedonian texts begin to appear, they are expressed in the Attic dialect. This fact furnishes one of the arguments used by those who deny that the Macedonians were Greeks and claim that the Macedonians were a people who spoke a different tongue and who became hellenized. Those who support the view that the Macedonian were Greeks counter that their kings introduced the attic dialect into the court and the administration because the local dialect was undeveloped. Attic thus became widespread among the MAcedonians as a means of expressing themselves in writing. Both these explanations are hypotheses that require proof. And the proof of either depends on other factors that will be examined below.


Despite the lack of Macedonian texts written in the local language the nature of Macedonian may be discerned from certain testimonia; from about 100 surviving Macedonian words; and from several hundred Macedonian names.


1) TESTIMONIA. There are three ancient pieces of indirect evidence of a conclusive nature:
a) in a scene from the attic comedy MACEDONIANS, by the fifth century writer Stattis, an Athenian asks "h sfyraina d' esti tis;" ('sledfish, what do you mean?') and a Macedonian replies "kestran men ymmes vttikoi iklhskete" ('wha ye Attics ca' a hammer-fush,
ma freen') .
In order to appreciate the value of the Macedonian's reply for the problem under discussion we must not forget that as is clear from many passages in Aristophanes, the attic comedians made their non-Greeks speak broken Greek with an admixture of barbarian words (some of them imaginary) while Lacedaemonians, Megarians Boiotians and other Greeks spoke their own dialects.
The Macedonian's reply is in good Greek with dialect (ymes, sfyraina) and archaizing elements (kiklhskete)

b) Alexander the Great having selected thirty thousand Persian youths, gave an order that they were to "learn Greek letters and be trained in the use of Macedonian weapons". From this it may be deduced that the MAcedonian soldiers spoke Greek: It would be pointless to teach the young Persians who were to fight alongside the Macedonians a language that the Macedonians did not understand.

c) an ambassador from Macedonia speaking to the Aitolians in 200BC says of the Macedonians, the Aitolians and the Arkanians that they spoke the same language.

The expressions "aneboa makedonisti" "makedonisti th fvnh" klp have been taken by opponents of the thesis that the Macedonians were Greeks as indicating that their language differed from Greek; the supporters of this thesis declare that these formulation indicate a Greek dialect (cf "aiolizein th fvnh", "attikizei", "attikisti", "boivtiazein","dvrizein" etc). The expressions are in fact susceptible of either interpretation and cannot therefore be used to form part of the argumentation with which either is supported. Their sense will become clear after Maceonian has been shown to be Greek, or not, from other data

2) WORDS. Today, over a hundred Macedonian words and a few hundred Macedonian names are known from a variety of sources. Although the names presuppose words, they will be examined separately for a number of methodological reasons.

A total of one hundred and twelve words, with ninety nine different stems, are attested directly. Of these, sixty-five words, or sixty-three stems have been preserved in lexica, with forty-seven words, with thirty-six stems, survive in various ancient texts, none of which is Macedonian. All the words in the second group are Greek. The opponents of the view that the MAcedonians were Greeks refuse to take them into consideration, arguing that they were all words borrowed by the Macedonians from Greek at the time they began to use the
Attic dialect as the official language- which they ascribe to the reign of Philip II.

However:
a) The word "sfyraina" and the form "ymmes" ARE NOT attic in origin and are attributed to the Macedonians half a century before the accession of Philip.
b) the majority of these words are military and, as has already been observed it would be illogical to suppose that Philip would impose a foreign military terminology on the MAcedonians; moreover, twelve of these same words are not attested as common to all dialects and fourteen more, while being common words, have a different meaning in MAcedonian. In dealing with the Macedonian material in lexica, the opponents of the view that the MAcedonians were Greeks have made use to varying extents of the following method: they select from amongst these words the ones that cannot be shown to have a Greek derivation; they do not always inquire whether the form of some of these has changed as a result of copying errors; they suggest derivations for these words from Indo-European roots without always demonstrating adequately that their derivations are well grounded; using this kind of etymology as their point of departure they draw up rules for the conversion of Indo European vowels or consonants to "Macedonian"; finally since the same rules can be detected in words that are not attested as Macedonian in the sources, they declare that these words, notwithstanding, should be considered Macedonian.

The latest and most complete monograph on the nationality of the Macedonians devotes hundreds of pages to the study of Macedonian words and contain some perceptive critical observations and original views. it concludes that fifty-two of the sixty-five words in the lexica are Greek, while the remaining thirteen include not only genuinely non_Greek words but also ambiguous forms, copyists' errors and words used by children.

Let us assume however that ALL the Macedonian words handed down by the lexica are demonstrably non-Greek (which is not claimed even by the most extreme opponents of the theory that the Macedonians were Greeks) Even in this eventuality, it would not necessarily follow that the Macedonians didn't speak Greek, The reason is that these words are not a representative sample of the MAcedonian tongue. this would require that they had been preserved at random and from a variety of sources. Quite the reverse is true: they have all been catalogued in lexica whose purpose is the interpretation of rare words only. It follows that the Alexandrian scholars who were the first to compose lexica of this sort (the forerunners of the surviving lexica in which the words in question are preserved) found only a few dozen Macedonian words that required interpretation.

However THERE IS NO LANGUAGE OR DIALECT THAT DOES NOT HAVE A NUMBER OF WORDS OF FOREIGN ORIGIN.

3) NAMES. In addition to the MAcedonian ethnic name, we today know the ethnic names of some of the Macedonian tribes, scores of place names in Macedonia and dozens of names of gods and heroes, the names of six festivals and twelve months and hundred of personal names covering thousand men and women.


The ethnic names of ELIMIOTAI, LYNKESTAI and ORESTAI derive from place names. The first has an undoubtedly Greek termination. Some scholars believe the -st of the second and third are an affix that is found in Illyrian names. In the name of Orestai at least the s belongs to the root (Ores-) and the t to the termination (-tai) which is Greek. Furthermore, both the Orestai and the Lynkestai were undoubtedly Greeks (see page 59).

Alexander I, other MAcedonian kings , Philip II Alexander the Great and his successors all gave Greek names to the cities they founded; Alexandre the great and some of his officers went further and translated some of the local names into Greek. Those opposed to the view that the Macedonians were Greek are not prepared to take this evidence into consideration, justifying their stance with the argument that it all post dates the introduction of attic into the court and the state administration. There is NO PROOF for this argument, however other than the claim that the Macedonians did not speak Greek and it is this claim that the argument is designed to support. The introduction of this argument into the chain of reasoning designed to demonstrate the above view thus leads to a vicious circle. In order to avoid the accusation that we are using these same toponyms as proof that the Macedonians were Greek, while the evidence for and against this view is still being discussed, we shall restrict ourselves to toponyms in areas where the expansion of the Macedonians ante-dates Philip and to those names attested before his reign. Some of these name are Greek some are non-Greek. The latter do not prove that the Macedonians were not Greeks, for the areas in question were inhabited for many millenia (from the beginning of human habitation to 2300/2200BC, and from 1900 till the eighth seventh and sixth and even the fifth centuries BC) by non-Greek peoples. We also know that place names, survieVx4z|(i\@4|@BD ethnic groups from which they derive. Further if the non Greek toponyms of western and central Macedonia are attributed to the Macedonians this has two consequences. Firstly, we have to concede that the Pelasgians, the Paiones, the Bottiaioi, the Eordoi, the Almopes, The Phrygians, the Thracians and other races left no mark on the toponyms of MAcedonia, which is improbable. Secondly the following problem arises if we exclude the possibility that the Macedonians were responsible for the Greek toponyms in western and central MAcedonia before Philip, to which GREEKS are they to be attributed? It is possible that only the names HALIAKMON and PIERIA are earlier than the Macedonian expansion. There are many more toponyms that are connected by our sources with the MAcedonian expansion or that cannot be dated to the period when the proto-Greeks occupied MAcedonia, for in this case they would exhibit a more archaic form which would have been fossilized or corrupted through the intervention of non-Greek language.


Of seventy-two names and epithets of gods and heroes fifty-six are panhellenic or Greek from a linguistic point of view, at least one is Greek with non-Greek phonetics, eleven are foreign (nine of these came from areas where non-Macedonian populations survived)a and two derive from foreign toponyms, with a Greek terminational the rest are doubtful (see page 60). The proportion of non-Greek names of gods is very small especially in view of the fact that they are attested at very late periods when the entire Greek world was feeling the influence of foreign religions.

All the names of festivals are Greek (see page 60) All the names of the months have Greek terminations and only two of them have roots that are possibly non-Greek. No comprehensive collection of the personal names has yet been made. The few collections that have been made for prosopographical purposes have not inspired any exhaustive linguistic studies or statistical evaluations. A review of the names borne by members of the royal family of the Temenids, of the dynasties of upper Macedonia, and other Macedonians before the rule of philip, reveals only very small percentages of each of the three groups. The recent discovery of large number of grave stelai at Vergina has increased
our knowledge of Macedonian personal names by adding dozens of examples. With one or two exceptions, these are Greek and a number of them date from before the accession of philip. They are all names of members of the middle classes.

Those who deny that the Macedonians were Greeks assert that they took the Greek names fro gods, heroes, festivals , months and people from the Greeks. in the first place, however there is no other example of a people neighbouring on the Greeks whose names are 95% Greek before the middle of the 4th century; many centuries later than this, a large percentage of Paionians Thracians, Mysians, Lydians, Karians, and Lycians had local names even though they had begun to feel Greek cultural influences much earlier. Furthermore, a member of the Greek-sounding names given by the MAcedonians to gods, heroes , festivals months and persons DO NOT OCCUR outside Macedonia or areas in which Macedonians had settled.

The majority of Macedonian names in all categories, are either nouns as such or adjectives or their derivatives, or a variety of compounds; they also include a number of verb-stems, prepositions and affixes. As a result, the names help us to form a picture of the vocabulary, phonetics, and rules of derivation and synthesis of the Macedonian tongue which is quantitavily richer and qualitatively superior to that derived from the hundred or so roots of words that have been handed down directly. Consequently, in attempting to trace the features of Macedonian in attempting to trace the features of Macedonian, it is necessary to go beyond the words and make use of all the date to be gleaned from the Macedonian names.

Synthesis
a) The nature of the Macedonian tongue

>From the above evidence- testimonia, words and names- it is clear that

Macedonian was not a separate language but a Greek dialect.


b) The relationship of MAcedonian to other Greek dialects.

The fact that there are no texts written in Macedonian prevents us from forming as good an idea of this dialect and its relationship to other
Greek dialects as we can for those in which even a few written documents survive. Nonetheless, the material at our disposal enables us to make a number of observations that demonstrate a relationship between Macedonian and the West Greek dialect (to which Doric and north-west Greek belong) and the Aiolic and Thessalian dialects.

1) Macedonian and West Greek a) -dd- in place of -zz
b) nominative singular of certain compounds in -as instead of -os
c) a number of words (to those already recorded should be added the word k~alon, the existence of which in Macedonian was recently demonstrated by the name Drykalos, read on one of the stelai from Vergina; the name will have meant ' he who is of the wood of the oak" cf the Macedonian name
Peykestas: "he who is of the wood of the pine".


2) Macedonian and Aeolic
a) a -nn- from -sn- (consequently also -ll- from -sl- etc); this phonetic rule is attested in Macedonian by the toponym Kranna
(Doric: Krana, Ionic-Attic :Krhnnh)
b) nominative plural of the second person of the personal pronoun ymmes
(Ionic-Attic: ymeis , Doric: ymes)

3) Macedonian and Thessalian
v (omega) instead of ou attested in both Macedonian and thessalian

4)Macedonian and arcadian conversion of en to in

5) Macedonian, thessalian and arcadian:
Conversion of a into e under certain conditions; Macedonia se- (in Seleykos) from die- which is attested in thessalian (dia- in the other Greek dialects) Macedonian zereuron = arcadian zereuron, thessalian bereuron for barauron.

c) Non-Greek features of Macedonian

A number of features may be observed in the surviving linguistic material that are not Greek. All those who have asserted that Macedonian was a distinct language and not a dialect of Greek have represented these features as having universal application. In fact, they have relied on
selected evidence, which they have put forward as being the only genuine examples of Macedonian.
This evidence consists of:
a) Those of the Macedonian words in the ancient lexica which cannot be assigned
a Greek derivation;
b) the very few Macedonian names fro gods, heroes, festivals, months, places and people that are non-Greek at least phonetically;
c) words known from ancient lexica or other sources which are not stated to be Macedonian but which have features either identical with or similar to those of the first two groups. The evidence is selected on the bases of the following arguments: all the examples that are stated to be Macedonian but have Greek characteristics are not genuinely Macedonian but will have passed into the Macedonian language as loan-words; all the examples that are not stated to be Macedonian but display the same characteristics as Macedonian are concealed examples of the Macedonian language. these arguments however fall into the logical trap of taking as assumed that which has to be proven, namely, that
Macedonian was a separate language which was gradually influenced to a considerable degree by Greek; and that the examples in the third group are Macedonian.

The following features have been suggested as features distinguishing Macedonian from Greek, though most of them in fact suggest an affinity with Thracian and Illyrian:
1) The retention of the Indo-European s before an initial vowel (in Greek the s became h, the DASEIA)
[Note: In the following discussion the aspirates bh,dh,gh should be read as they are written and not translated into their Greek equivalents]
2) The conversion of the indo-european voiced aspirates bh , dh , gh into voiced stops b( beta) d( delta) g (gamma) (in Greek these became f (phi) u (theta) x (chi)),
3)the disimilation of the first aspirate in cases where two of these sounds occur in successive syllables
4)the conversion of b,g,d, into p,k,t,
5) the conversion of the vowel group ai into a
6) the conversion of the vowel group ay( alpha upsilon) into a
7) the dropping of the final r (rho)
8) the formation of feminines in -issa
9) the formation of ethnic names by the affix -st


Let us examine matter more closely:

1) Only three Macedonian words have s- before a vowel in their first syllable: sarissa , Sayadoi/Saydoi , Sigynh/Sibynh.
However: a) none of these has been convincingly derived from an Indo-European root
b) the third is also attested in the Greek dialect of Cyprus from as early as the third century and the second corresponds to the god's name Sabazios which spread through southern Greece at an early date;
c) Greek has many examples of the retention of Indo-European -s- before a vowel in the first syllable, occurring in words borrowed by Greek from languages spoken by populations subjected to Greek tribes. Thus: either the Macedonian examples do not prove the existence of the phenomenon in question or if they prove it they do not constitute criteria for distinguishing the Macedonian tongue from Greek; in the lattereventuality they will have derived from Pelasgians or thracians who were subjugated by the Macedonians.
The fact that Macedonian has examples in which initial s- is converted into an aspiration cannot be ignored however. This phenomenon cannot be interpreted in terms of Greek influence, for it occurs in the names Yperberetas and Yperberetaios amongst others; these are not only unknown outside Macedonia but exhibit b in the place of f. IT IS ILLOGICAL to cite these names amongst the examples in which b appears in place of the Greek f and simultaneously to ignore the fact that they represent examples of the change of the initial s to h (daseia) in accordance with a GREEK phonetic law.

2) The second phenomenos is attested in Plutarch, Eustathios of Thessalonike, and a number of lemmata in Byzantine Lexica. One of the passages in Plutarch gives the impression that the phenomenon was widespread in Macedonia. Examples are the names Bilippos, Berenikh, Balakros, Beroia etc (for Filippos, Ferenikh, Falakros, Feroia etc). On the other hand,it is to be noted that the name Filippos and Macedoniannames in general in which the first component is fil- are written more frequently with f from the beginning of the written tradition; also that f and not b occurs in : amfoter'os, arf'ys, Boykefalas, falagj, Fobos etc x (chi) and not g in : agxarmos, dimaxai, loxos, Polyperxvn Xariklhs, Xarvn; u (theta) and not d in zereuron, Uaylos, Uoyrides, Peiuvn. Those who oppose the view that elements of Macedonian were Greek argue, of course, that the version with f,u,x, represent Macedonian names transmitted in Greek texts and also name and words borrowed by the Macedonians from the Greeks. If the evidence of the Greek texts is excluded on the grounds that is untrustworthy, then exception cannot be made for those passages which attest to b,d,g, in place of f,u,x. If these latter are not excluded, and it is thus conceded that the Greek authors rendered the Macedonian pronunciation correctly by writing Bilippos etc then it is illegitimate to assert that the
version with f,u,x are errors. Furthermore, the spelling Filippos is not solely attested in non-Macedonian texts; it also occurs on coins of philip II
and on Macedonian arrows (photo included) and tiles of the same period. It would be curious if the coins issued by the Macedonian state did not accurately reflect the national pronunciation. Let us concede, however, that Philip insisted that his name be written with F since he hasestablished the attic dialect as the official language of the state: this explanation might account for the phonetic form of the royal name on the coinage but not also on arrows and tiles. The hypothesis that Macedonian names and words having f ,y,x in place of b,d,g are borrowed from Greek has properly been countered with the hypothesis that this is unacceptable in the case of words like arfys, which is otherwise unknown; agxarmon which has fallen in disuse in the rest of Greece, zereuron which was used in the isolated region of Arcadia; xarvn which in Macedonia was not used to mean "Charon" but "lion".

Two conclusions emerge:
1) the pronunciation of the ancient bh,gh,dh, as b,g,d, was not universal throughout the Macedonia, but occurred alongside the pronunciation f,x,u.
2) the pronunciation f,x,u appears in some words which could not have been borrowed by the Macedonians from a Greek people. In the light of these conclusions we must look for some other explanation of the appearance of b,g,d in Macedonia This demand can be satisfied by the following observations:
1) the same phenomenon also occurs sporadically in words and names transmitted in indisputably Greek sources
2) these words and names are thought to be loan words borrowed by the Greeks from other iNdo-European peoples that they first conquered and absorbed
3) the Macedonians too conquered the pelasgians and after them the thracians and illyrians who , like the Pelasgians had converted the bh,gh,dh, into b,g,d. Since on the one hand, the appearance in Macedonian of f,u,x deriving from indo-european bh,gh,dh, cannot be attributed to external influences and since, on the other, the conversion of the same sounds to b,g,d, occurred in Macedonian under conditions similar to those that account for it an indisputably Greek linguistic area, we are obliged to give the same interpretation to the Macedonian data 3 and
4) These two phenomena also occur in words and names found in the Greek world in general where they are regarded as vestiges of pelasgian or of pre-Greek languages generally, that have been preserved in Greek. Their occurrence in Macedonian can therefore also be attributed to pre-Macedonian substrata (both Pelasgian and Thracian).

5) That the group ay was converted to a is a conjecture based on a very small number of names and words. Since there are also reliable indications that the group was also preserved we may reasonably assume that this is another case in which we have to deal with two different kinds of development: that one of these(the preservation of the group) does not distinguish Macedonian from Greek; and that the other (the conversion of the group to a) since it was sporadic, is not an ancient hallmark of Macedonian but is due to the influence of populations conquered by the Macedonians.

6) The hypothesis that the group ay became a in Macedonian is based entirely on a dubious derivation. By contrast the preservation of the group au in this tongue is well attested

7) the dropping of final r is similarly supported by unlikely etymologies

8) The formation of feminines in -issa is attested in Macedonian by basilissa, Makedonissa, and sarissa. The view that the -issa in these examples corresponds to the -izza in Illyrian remains undecided. On the other hand, the Greek Kilissa and Foinissa cannot be ignored. Admittedly the -issa of the Macedonian examples cannot be interpreted phonetically in the same way as the -issa in the two Greek words (from Kilik-j-a and Foinik-j-a) but it is not impossible that basilissa etc were formed by analogy with Kilissa and Foinissa in accordance with a phenomenon familiar in linguistics. Furthermore, the mostlikely derivation of sarissa related it to a common noun indicating a type of oak-tree which is attested in Greek.

9) The name of the nations of upper Macedonia Orestai and Lygkhstai, the ethnics found in various parts of Macedonia derived from the names of cities such as Argestaioi (from Argos) Diestai/Diastai (from Dion) e.t.c. and personal names such as Peykestas have been thought to be Illyrian since an affix does in fact appear in ethnic names in Illyria an in regions inhabited by Illyrian tribes. However:
a) the names Argestaioi Orestai Peykestas have stems in -es (Arges- etc) and a termination -tas (-ths) like the familiar Greek words and names Uyesths, Oresths, telestas, orxhsths, etc. They do not therefore, belong to the category of names that have an affix -st. Moreover the Lygkhstai and the Orestai were Greek tribes and Argos whose inhabitants were called Argestaioi was a city of the second of these tribes. The Eordistai derived their name from the verb eordizv.
b) The toponyms Dion and Kranna were Greek. In these and all the others that were also Greek the -st- may best be attributed to the influence of the Greek Orestai. For the others we have to assume a double influence both from the Greek and from Illyrian names.

3)RELIGIOUS AND ETHNOLOGICAL EVIDENCE.



From the point of view of the question of the nationality of the Macedonians the surviving religious and ethnological evidence may be divided into Greek, non-Greek doubtful and irrelevant; the Greek evidence may in turn be subdivided into
a) that found throughout Greece
b) that which is attested in various parts of Greece, and
c) local Macedonian.
This subdivision is rendered necessary by the fact that opinion is divided as to the value as evidence of the first group and also fo some of the items in the second. Some scholars agree that this evidence demonstrates that the Macedonians were Greeks while others claim that it does not prove this, since the relevant information dates mainly from the period of Alexander the Great and his successors and only rarely from the time of Philip
and earlier. If this argument holds good however then , a fortiori, we must reject as irrelevant all the non-Greek evidence since the passages concerning them are of much later date.

A. Greek Elements

a) Panhellenic elements

From the data at our disposal at present we know that the Macedonians worshipped the 12 Olympian Gods both collectively and individually and also Pluto, Persephone, ... [Note: other names omitted for brevity] etc. They also gave them the familiar Greek epithetssuch as Agoraios, basileys, Olympios, Hypsistos of Zeus, basileia of Hera, Soter of Apollo, HAGEMONA (Attic-Ionic Hegemone) and Soteira of Artemis etc.Some of the evidence of the worship of Ge Helios Dionysos pan Asklepios and Herakles is earlier than the period of Philip while the earliest evidence fro the twelve gods comes from this period. The large number of these Gods' names and the early
date of the evidence militates against the familiar false argument advanced by those opposed to the idea that the Macedonians were Greeks- namely, that the Greeek cultural features that appear in Macedonia were imposed by the kings who admired things Greek, especially philip. Moreover Philip or one of his immediate predecessors introduced the attic dialect as the official language of the state and if the Greek names of gods used by the Macedonians were impoerted they ought to be attic in form. the name AGEMONA however has
retained the original long a in both the first syllable of the stem and the termination. If this word did not have its roots in Macedonia but had been imported as a result of royal initiative we would know it in the
form of HGEMONH.

b) Elements limited to particular Areas


In Macedonia, the name Uayl(l)os was used of a God who was identified with Ares. The hypothesis that this Goa was Thraco-Phrygian is groundless. On the contrary, he has been convincingly related to Zeus Thaulios of Thessaly the clan of Thaulonidai of Attica, and the Doric festival, the Thaulia. The god Thaulos was probably originally a separate god who had qualities which later led to his identification with Ares in some regions and with Zeus in others.

.....[other stuff related to epithet of Gods deleted] ....
In addition to the above religious evidence, reference should be also be made to the dance KARPAIA since it too is attested outside Macedonia, in regions to the south of Olympos, notably in Magnesia and Ainis

c) Elements limited in MAcedonia
The following Greek names are cited or occur as exclusively MAcedonian:
Alkidemos (as an epithet to Athena)
Aidonaios (name of a month from the name Aidoneus= Hades)
Aretos (epithet of Heracles)
Hyperberetaios (name of a month)
Xandikos (name of a month) etc (another 16 names are given).
The names Xandikos and Hyperberetaios have d and b in place of the Greek
u and f but are Greek in all other aspects.

B) Thracian elements

The names of the Gods Asdoules, Bendis, Daimones, etc and the epithet Derronaios (of Herakles) are indigenous in Pelagonia, Derriopos and Paionia all areas in which Pre-Macedonian populations survived. Moreover they are
attested at late dates chiefly from the Christian centuries when Thracian and other foreign religions were to be found throughout the Greek world. Tha name Zeirene (a goddess identified with Aphrodite) and sauadai (the
name of demons identified with the Satyrs) are each attested once. The reference to each, in an article in the lexicon of Hesychios, contains the statement that they were local in Macedonia. Bearing in mind that the
gods' names mentioned above occurred in very restricted areas it seems at least possible that these latter names too were restricted to regions in which pre-Macedonian populations survived and were disseminated throughout Macedonia in theHellenistic period.


C) DOUBTFUL ELEMENTS

The names of two Macedonian months Gorpiaios and Dystros have given rise to inadequately supported etymologies.

D) Evidence without value


The passage stating that the Macedonians worshipped the air under the name bedu has been disputed with very convincing arguments. It has also been shown that Totoes, the god of sleep who was thought to be Thracian or "Macedonian" was imported from Egypt.

Some of the other names or deities and nymphs are of no value, since they are derived from place -names Bloureitis and gazoreitis (epithets of artemis) etc. The suggestion that these names indicate distinct deities is erroneous as is the attribution of the first two to thracian deities identifies with Artemis.


E) Conclusion from the Comparison of the Greek and non Greek religious and thnological elements

Elements that are unquestionably Greek are much more numerous than those which are not Greek. the great majority of the Greek elements is earlier in date than the the non-Greek and the doubtful elements.

Some fifteen Greek elements had a limited dissemination which did not coincide with a particular geographical area; some of them were local to areas a considerable distance from Macedonia. Furthermore, none of them had
any particular influence. Afurther fifteen Greek elements do not occur outside Macedonia. Nine of the eleven items of non_Greek evidence were local to areas that had pre-Macedonian populations.

When taken as a whole, these observations show that the MAcedonians were not Thracians or Illyrians or any other race tha became hellenized BUT GREEKS WHOSE CULTURE WAS SLIGHTLY INFLUENCED BY NON-GREEK FEATURES

4)RELATIONS BETWEEN THE MACEDONIAN AND OTHER GREEK TRIBES

We have alreadymet various indications of the relations between the Macedonians and other Greek tribes. These relations demonstrate that the Macedonians were a Greek tribe from as early as the Bronze Age.


The Macedonians were bound to the Dorians and the MAgnesians by very close ties of kinship. Their ties with the former are attested by a tradition preserved in Herodotos, corrected by other evidence. They are also implicit in a number of dialect features common to both Doric and Macedonian; the fact that the kings of Sparta and of the MAcedonians offered sacrifices to the Diskouroi; the cult of Pasikrata in Macedonia and in the Doric world (at Selinous, a colony of the Dorian Megarians); and the division of the Temenids into two branches one of which stayed in Macedonia while the other appears in the Dorian Argos.

The relationship between the Macedonians and the Magnesians was familiar to the ancients, for Hesiod portrays Makedon and Magnes as brothers. It is confirmed by the fact that the name of both peoples is derived from the root mak - "high, tall" and by the circumstance that the Macedonians and Magnesians celebrated a festival called the Hetaireidia, unknown elsewhere.

... other material relating Macedonia with other Greek tribes neighbouring Macedonia and with Theseus is deleted ....

CROSS CHECK OF CONCLUSIONS DRAWN FROM THE DIFFERENT CATEGORIES OF EVIDENCE

We have examined in turn
1) the surviving traditions and testimonia concerning the Macedonians
2) the available evidence for the Macedonian tongue
3) what is known today of their religion and ethnology
4) the relations between the MAcedonians and other various Greek tribes.


The valid data under all these headings leads naturally and definitively to the same conclusion: the Macedonians were a GREEK TRIBE. Some of the evidence indeed points to a more specific conclusion: that the MACEDONIANS constituted a distinct GREEK tribe from as early as the Bronze Age

Excellent post and very informative.

Obviously there are going to be some differences with the words..and grammar...however its obvious that they spoke a dialect of greek..which was based entirely on the Greek alphabet. Heck even today my grandmother speaks and some words i have never heard of.

Also an regarding article as about the ancient Macedonian language from Marcus Templar

Linguistically, there is no real distinction between a dialect and a language without a specific factor. People usually consider the political factor to determine whether a certain kind of speech is a language or a dialect. Since the Pan-Hellenic area consisted of many small city- states (Attica, Lacedaemon, Corinth, etc.), and larger states (Molossia, Thesprotia, Macedonia, Acarnania, Aetolia, etc.), it was common knowledge at the time that the people of all those states were speaking different languages, when in fact they were all variations of the same language, Hellenic or Greek. The most advanced of all Hellenic dialects was the dialect of Attica (Athens) or Attic. When people state “ancient Greek language� they mean the Attic dialect and any comparison of the Macedonian dialect to ancien Greek is actually a comparison to the Attic dialect.

The difference between Macedonian and Attic was like the difference between Low and High German. Nobody doubts that both are Germanic languages, although they differ from one another. Another good example of a multi-dialectal linguistic regime is present-day Italy. The official language of Italy is the Florentine, but common people still speak their own dialects.

Two people from different areas of Italy cannot communicate if both speak their respective dialect, and yet they both speak Italian. Why should the Hellenic language be treated differently?

At that time, Greeks spoke more than 200 Hellenic dialects or languages, as the ancient Greeks used to call them. Some of the well-known dialects were Ionic, Attic, Doric, Aeolic, Cypriot, Arcadic, Aetolic, Acarnanic, Macedonian and Locric. Moreover, we know that the Romans onsidered the Macedonians as Hellenic speaking peoples. Livy wrote, " The Aetolians, the Acarnanians, the Macedonians, men of the same speech, are united or disunited by trivial causes that arise from time to time …"
(Livy, History of Rome, b. XXXI par. XXIX).

The Aetolians and Acarnanians were definitely Hellenic tribes. On another occasion Livy writes "…[General Paulus] took his official seat surrounded by the whole crowd of Macedonians … his announcement was translated into Greek and repeated by Gnaeus Octavius the praetor…�. If the crowd of Macedonians were not Greek speaking, why then did the Romans need to translate Paulus' speech into Greek?
(Livy, History of Rome, b. XLV, para XXIX).

The Macedonian dialect was an Aeolic dialect of the Western Greek language group (Hammond, The Macedonian State, p. 193). All those dialects differ from each other, but never in a way that one person could not understand the other.

The Military Yugoslavian Encyclopedia of the 1974 edition (Letter M, page 219), a very anti-Hellenic biased publication, states, “… u doba rimske invazije, njihov jezik bio grčki, ali se dva veka ranije dosta razlikovao od njega, mada ne toliko da se ta dva naroda nisu mogla sporazumevati.â€� (… at the time of the Roman invasion their language was Hellenic, but two centuries before it was different enough, but not as much as the two peoples could not understand one another).

After the death of Alexander the Great, the situation changed in the vast empire into a new reality. Ptolemy II, Philadelphos (308-246 BC) the Pharaoh (king) of Egypt realized that the physical unification of the Greeks and the almost limitless expansion of the Empire required the
standardization of the already widely used common language or Koinē. Greek was already the lingua franca of the vast Hellenistic world in all four kingdoms of the Diadochi (Alexander's Successors). It was already spoken, but neither an official alphabet nor grammar had yet been devised.
Alexandria, Egypt was already the Cultural Center of the Empire in about 280 BC. Ptolemy II assigned Aristeas, an Athenian scholar, to create the grammar of the new language, one that not only all Greeks, but all inhabitants of the Empire would be able to speak. Thus, Aristeas used
the Attic dialect as basis for the new language. Aristeas and the scholars who were assisting him trimmed the language a little, eliminated the Attic idiosyncrasies and added words as well as grammatical and syntactical rules mainly from the Doric, Ionic, and Aeolic dialects. The Spartan Doric, however, was excluded from it (see Tsakonian further down). So, they standardized THE Hellenic language, called Koine or Common.

The language was far from perfect. Non-Greeks encountered difficulties reading it since there was no way to separate words, sentences and paragraphs. In addition, they were unable to express their feelings and the right intonation. During that time, Greek was a melodic language,
even more melodic than Italian is today.

The system of paragraphs, sentences, and some symbols like ~. ;`'! , were the result of continuous improvement and enhancement of the language with the contribution of many Greek scholars from all over the World.

There were a few alphabets employed by various Hellenic cities or states, and these alphabets included letters specific to the sounds of their particular dialect. There were two main categories, the Eastern and the Western alphabets. The first official alphabet omitted all letters not in use any longer ( sampi, qoppa, digamma also known as stigma in Greek
numbering) and it presented a 24-letter alphabet for the new Koinē language. However, the inclusion and use of small letters took place over a period of many centuries after the standardization of Koinē.

After the new language was completed with its symbols, the Jews of Egypt felt that it was an opportunity for them to translate their sacred books into Greek since it was the language that the Jews of Diaspora spoke. So on the island of Pharos, by Alexandria's seaport, 72 Jewish rabbis were secluded and isolated as they translated their sacred books (Torah, Nevi’im, Ketuvim, etc.) from Aramaic and Hebrew to the Koinē Greek, the newly created language. This is known as the Septuagint translation. The Koinē evolved and in about two to three centuries it became the language that Biblical scholars call Biblical Greek. In fact, only those who have studied the Attic dialect can understand the difference between the Septuagint Greek and the Greek of the New Testament.
Although the Koinē was officially in use, common folk in general continued to speak their own dialect and here and there one can sense the insertion of elements of the Attic dialect in various documents such as the New Testament. The Gospel according to St. John and the Revelation are
written in perfect Attic. The other three Synoptic Gospels were written in Koinē with the insertion of some Semitic grammatical concepts (i.e. the Hebrew genitive) and invented words (i.e. epiousios).


continued..........

The outcome is that today in Greece there are many variations in speech; of course not to the point of people not understanding each other, but still there is divergence in the Greek spoken tongue. Today the Hellenic language accepts only one dialect, the Tsakonian, which is a direct development of the ancient Doric dialect of Sparta. The Demotic is a development of mostly the Doric sound system, whereas the Katharevousa is a made-up language based on the Classical Attic. Presently, the speech in various areas of Greece somehow differs from each other and sometimes an untrained ear might have difficulty understanding the local speech. Pontic and Cypriot Greek are very good examples to the unacquainted ear. Tsakonian dialect, the descendant of the Spartan Doric, is almost impossible to understand if one is not familiar with it.

Over the years, Macedonia had several names. At first the Macedonians gave the land the name, Emathia, after their leader Emathion. It derives from the word amathos, amathoeis meaning sand or sandy. From now on, all of its names are Greek. Later it was called Maketia or Makessa and finally Makedonia (Macedonia). The latter names are derived from the Doric/Aeolic word “makos,â€� (in Attic “mēkos) meaning length (see Homer, Odyssey, VII, 106), thus Makednos means long or tall, but also a highlander or mountaineer. (cf. Orestae, Hellenes).

In Opis, during the mutiny of the Macedonian Army, Alexander the Great spoke to the whole Macedonian Army addressing them in Greek (Arrian, Anabasis of Alexander, VII, 9,10). The Macedonian soldiers listened to him and they were dumbfounded by what they heard from their Commander-in-Chief. They were upset. Immediately after Alexander left for the Palace, they demanded that Alexander allow them to enter the palace so that they could talk to him. When this was reported to Alexander, he quickly came out and saw their restrained disposition; he heard the majority of his soldiers crying and lamenting, and was moved to tears. He came forward to speak, but they remained there imploring him. One of them, named Callines, whose age and command of the Companion cavalry made him preeminent spoke as follows: “Sire, what grieves the Macedonians is that you have already made some Persians your ‘kinsmen’, and the Persians are called ‘kinsmen’ of Alexander and are allowed to kiss you, while not one of the Macedonians has been granted this honor� (Arrian, Anabasis of Alexander, VII, 8-11).

The previous story clearly reveals that the Macedonians were speaking Greek since they could understand their leader. There were thousands of them, not just some selected few who happened to speak Greek. It would be unrealistic for Alexander the Great to speak to them in a language they supposedly did not speak. It would be impossible to believe that the Macedonian soldiers were emotionally moved to the point that all of them were lamenting after listening to a language they did not understand. There is no way for the Macedonians to have taken a crash
course in Greek in 20 minutes so that they would be able to understand the speech simultaneously as Alexander was delivering it.

Furthermore, the Macedonians wore a distinctive hat, the “kausiaâ€� (καυσία) (Polybius IV 4,5; Eustathius 1398; Arrian, Anabasis of Alexander, VII 22; cf. Sturz, Macedonian Dialect, 41) from the Greek word for heat that separated them from the rest of the Greeks. That is why the Persians called them “yauna takabara,â€� which meant “Greeks wearing the hatâ€�. The Macedonian hat was very distinctive from the hats of the other Greeks, but the Persians did not distinguished the Macedonians, because the Macedonian speech was also Greek (Hammond, The Macedonian State p. 13 cf. J.M. Balcer, Historia, 37 [1988] 7).

Accusations of Macedonians being barbarians started in Athens and they were the result of political fabrications based on the Macedonian way of life and not on their ethnicity or language. (Casson, Macedonia, Thrace and Illyria, p158, Errington, A History of Macedonia, p 4).

Demosthenes traveled to Macedonia twice for a total of nine months. He knew very well what language the Macedonians were speaking. We encountered similar behavior with Thrasyboulos.

He states that the Acarnanians were barbarians only when the Athenians encountered a conflict of political interest from the Acarnanians. The Macedonian way of life differed in many ways from the southern Greek way of life, but that was very common among the Western Greeks such as Chaones, Molossians, Thesprotians, Acarnanians, Aetolians and Macedonians (Errington, A History of Macedonia, p 4.) Macedonian state institutions were similar to those of the Mycenean and Spartan (Wilcken, Alexander the Great, p 23).

Regarding Demosthenes addressing Philip as “barbarian� even Badian an opponent of the Greekness of Macedonians states “It may have nothing to do with historical fact, any more than the orators' tirades against their personal enemies usually have.� (E. Badian, Studies in the History of Art Vol 10: Macedonia And Greece in Late Classical and Early Hellenistic Times, Greeks and Macedonians).

One more proove that what language had spoken the ancient Macedonian is the book that will be published from the Cambringe University.

http://assets.cambridge.org/052183/3078/cover/0521833078.jpg

This book provides from the Proffessor Christides the most comprehensive account of the history of the Greek language from its beginnings to late antiquity. In this revised and expanded translation of the Greek original published in 2001, a distinguished international team of scholars goes beyond a merely technical treatment of the subject by examining the language’s relationship with politics, society and culture. An attempt is made to cover all aspects of the history of Greek, including those that are usually considered marginal, such as obscene language, the language of the gods and child talk. Other topics which receive particular emphasis are language contact and translation practices in antiquity. The book’s clear organisation and concise chapters make it highly readable and accessible to non-specialists, and the text is supported by example passages from primary sources and numerous informative illustrations. It is an essential reference work for all those interested in the history of Greek.

• The most comprehensive study of the history of the Greek language made available for the first time in English

• An internationally distinguished team of scholars explores the language from both linguistic and sociohistorical perspectives

• The clear organisation, concise chapters, example passages from primary sources and numerous illustrations make the volume highly readable and accessible to non-specialists

Contents

Part I. The Language Phenomenon;
Part II. The Greek Language: Language and History;
Part III. The Ancient Greek Dialects;
Part IV. Ancient Greek: Structure and Change;
Part V. Greek in Contact with Other Languages;
Part VI. Translation Practices in Antiquity;
Part VII. Language and Civilization;
Part VIII. The Ancient Greeks and Language;
Part IX. The Fortunes of Ancient Greek.

As I have already said the ancient Macedonian language mentioned from the biggest University as a Greek in the Ancient History Serries as a dialect of the NorthEastern language group in ancient Hellenic Language.
The book will be published in the beginning of the 2006.
Also available in the modern (as the FYROM Slavs Macedonians ) Greek language

http://www.cambridge.org/uk/catalogue/catalogue.asp?isbn=0521833078#contributors
http://www.alpha.edu.gr/general/100106591789633.shtml

Regional linguistic disparities have existed amongst most of the world's cultures since time immemorial. Physical isolation, immigration, political machinations and other factors have contributed to the creation of local dialects everywhere. The absolutely miniscule differences FYROM revisionists use as evidence for distinguishing Macedonia from the rest of the Greek city-states, are not only inaccurate but from a research point of view, pathetic. They quote the odd word (!!) and even their most ardent supporters only claim a few dozen terms as being unique. Alexander's Macedonia was a state physically separated from most of Hellas at the time; it was not as culturally enriched as Athens (but then who was) and was a crossroads of sorts for other non-Hellenic Europeans and Asians. The fact that Macedonia did not have its speaking tongue transformed into a bastardized, quasi-language is because Greek was so dominant linguistically and culturally. Athenians may have propagandized to other Greeks that Macedonia was not Greek but considering the political situation at the time, this was to be expected. More importantly, the Macedonians considered themselves Greek. We see it in their dress, architecture, arts and aristocracy. This was not a country where speaking Greek was the sole priviledge of the ruling class; it was the language of communication for everyone. The linguistic differences were minor, if they existed at all, but the ethnic unity was universal. And for those who continue to maintain that Macedonians refered to themselves as Macedonians--they're right. But this historical "evidence" can be refuted by anyone who takes a moment to speak to ANY Greek. Ask a Greek his nationality and he will proudly say Greek. If a Greek asks, the answer will always be referred to his or his parents etc. geneology. For example, a modern Greek will say he is a Cretan, Lakonian, Messinean etc. because our culture places tremendous importance on our historical roots and has since the beginning of time. That's why every contemporary historian of Alexander classifies the Greeks; it was and is our way of identifying and relating to each other.
One last point. Italy is a country where regional linguistic disparities are so pronounced that people from one area cannot understand the other. Proper Italian is a separate common language that must be used to communicate in a manner everyone understands. In fact, many of these dialects are in danger of becoming extinct and there are movements to preserve their uniqueness. But there is never any question that everyone on the boot is Italian. Just as there is no question that Macedonia then and now is Greek.

I discovered it during surfing on the net... they say everything about the language of ancient Macedonians and the neighboring tribes (for the greek speakers)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v506/archangel_ioan/makedonia/IMAGE0010.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v506/archangel_ioan/makedonia/IMAGE0011.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v506/archangel_ioan/makedonia/IMAGE0012.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v506/archangel_ioan/makedonia/IMAGE0013.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v506/archangel_ioan/makedonia/IMAGE0014.jpg

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The following is a post from vasiliOs (great way to spell it) on Greek Soccer. I have invited him to join us and I will post as I think he would not object.






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http://www.ucc.ie/staff/jprodr/macedonia/macanclan.html


QUOTE
The problem of the nature and origin of the Macedonian language is still disputed by modern scholars, but does not seem to have been raised among the ancients.

We have a rare adverb "makedovisti" (important passages in Plutarch, Alex.51 and Eum.14), but the meaning of this form is ambiguous. The adverb cannot tell us whether Plutarch had in mind a language different from Greek (cf. "foivikisti", 'in Phoenician'), or a dialect (cf. "megaristi", 'in Megarian'), or a way of speaking (cf. "attikisti").

We have some 'Macedonian' glosses, particularly in Hesychius' lexicon, but they are mostly disputed and some were corrupted in the transmission. Thus "abroutes", 'eyebrows' probably must be read as "abrouFes" (with 't' which renders a digamma). If so, it is a Greek dialect; yet others (e.g. A.Meillet) see the dental as authentic and think that the word belongs to an Indo-European language different from Greek.

After more than a century we recognise among linguists two schools of thought.

* Those who reject the Greek affiliation of Macedonian prefer to treat it as an Indo-European language of the Balkans, located geographically and linguistically between Illyrian in the west and Thracian in the east. Some, like G.Bonfante (1987), look towards Illyrian; others, like I.I.Russu (1938), towards "Thraco-Phrygian" (at the cost, sometimes, of unwarranted segmentations such as that of "Ale3avdros" into "+ale-" and "+3avd").
* Those who favour a purely Greek nature of Macedonian as a northern Greek dialect are numerous and include early scholars like A.Fick (1874) and O.Hoffmann (1906). The Greek scholars, like G.Hatzidakis (1897, etc.) and above all J.Kalleris (1964 and 1976), have turned this assumption into a real dogma, with at times nationalistic overtones. This should not prevent us, however, from inclining towards this view.

For a long while Macedonian onomastics, which we know relatively well thanks to history, literary authors, and epigraphy, has played a considerable role in the discussion. In our view the Greek character of most names is obvious and it is difficult to think of a Hellenization due to wholesale borrowing. "Ptolemaios" is attested as early as Homer, "Ale3avdros" occurs next to Mycenaean feminine a-re-ka-sa-da-ra- ('Alexandra'), "Laagos", then "Lagos", matches the Cyprian 'Lawagos', etc.

The small minority of names which do not look Greek, like "Arridaios" or "Sabattaras", may be due to a substratum or adstatum influences (as elsewhere in Greece).

Macedonian may then be seen as a Greek dialect, characterised by its marginal position and by local pronunciations (like "Berevika" for "Ferevika", etc.).

Yet in contrast with earlier views which made of it an Aeolic dialect (O.Hoffmann compared Thessalian) we must by now think of a link with North-West Greek (Locrian, Aetolian, Phocidian, Epirote). This view is supported by the recent discovery at Pella of a curse tablet (4th cent. BC) which may well be the first 'Macedonian' text attested (provisional publication by E.Voutyras; cf. the Bulletin Epigraphique in Rev.Et.Grec.1994, no.413); the text includes an adverb "opoka" which is not Thessalian.

We must wait for new discoveries, but we may tentatively conclude that Macedonian is a dialect related to North-West Greek.



O.Masson,

"Oxford Classical Dictionary," 3rd ed. (1996), pp.905,906



James L. O'Neil's (of the University of Sydney) presentation at the 2005 Conference of the Australasian Society for Classical Studies, entitled "Doric Forms in Macedonian Inscriptions" (abstract):


QUOTE
"A fourth‐century BC curse tablet from Pella shows word forms which are clearly Doric, but a different form of Doric from any of the west Greek dialects of areas adjoining Macedon. Three other, very brief, fourth century inscriptions are also indubitably Doric. These show that a Doric dialect was spoken in Macedon, as we would expect from the West Greek forms of Greek names found in Macedon. And yet later Macedonian inscriptions are in Koine avoiding both Doric forms and the Macedonian voicing of consonants. The native Macedonian dialect had become unsuitable for written documents."


Brutally harsh for the skops, especially coming from the University of Sydney of all places, heh.

This post has been edited by vasili0s: Today, 12:17 PM


--------------------

Macedonia : Eternal HELLENIC homeland !

http://makedonia.cc.ece.ntua.gr

Θρύλε για πάρτη σου, Θρύλε μαζί σου...


Tha is the end of vasiliOs' post on GS. THanks to Greeksoccer.com and vasiliOs.

From Plutarchs "Lives" Vol II pg. 161

When Alexander went to Siwa to consult the Oracle/Temple of Ammon!

"Others say that the priest, desirous as a piece of courtesy to address him
IN GREEK, 'O Paidion,' by a slip in pronunciation ended with the s instead of the n, and said 'O Paidios,' which mistake Alexander was well enough pleased with, and it went for current that the oracle called him so."

Interesting why the priest would address him in Greek if the Macedonian mother-tongue was NOT GREEK!??

Sample glossary

Below there are ancient words that belong in the ancient macedonian language.
Warning:
You might need Greek fonts in order to read the Greek Macedonian words.:read:

άβαγνα ábagna 'roses' (Hes. Attic ρόδα; perhaps Doric αβός abós 'young, luxuriant' + αγνός hagnós 'pure, chaste, unsullied')
αβαρύ abarý 'oregano' (Hes. ορίγανον orÃ*ganon, perhaps Attic prefix α a 'not' + βαρύ barý 'heavy')
αβρούτες or αβρούφες abroûtes or abroûwes 'eyebrows' (Hes. Attic όφρυς ophrûs acc. pl., οφρύες ophrúes nom., PIE *bhru-)
άγημα ágēma, 'vanguard, guards' (Hes. Attic άγημα ágēma, PIE *ag-)
αγκαλίς agkalÃ*s 'weight, burden, load' or 'sickle' (Hes. Attic άχθος ákhthos or δρέπανον drépanon, LSJ Attic αγκαλίς agkalÃ*s 'bundle', or in pl. αγκάλαι agkálai 'arms' (body parts), άγκαλος ágkalos 'armful, bundle', αγκάλη agkálē 'the bent arm' or 'anything closely enfolding', as the arms of the sea, PIE *ank 'to bend')
αδέ adē 'clear sky' or 'the upper air' (Hes. ουρανός ouranós 'sky', LSJ and Pokorny Attic αιθήρ aithēr 'ether, the upper, purer air', hence 'clear sky, heaven')
άδις ádis 'hearth' (Hes. εσχάρα eskhára, LSJ Attic αίθος aîthos 'fire, burning heat')
άδραια ádraia 'fine weather, open sky' (Hes. Attic αιθρία aithrÃ*a, PIE *aidh-)
ακρουνοί akrounoÃ* 'boundary stones' nom. pl. (Hes. όροι hóroi, LSJ Attic ακρος ákros 'at the end or extremity', from ακή akē 'point, edge', PIE *ak 'summit, point' or 'sharp')
αλίη alÃ*ē 'manure'
άλιζα áliza (also alixa) 'alder' (Hes. Attic λεύκη leúkē 'poplar', perhaps Pokorny Attic ελάτη elátē 'fir, spruce', PIE *ol-, *el-)
αμαλή amalē 'gentle' fem. (LSJ αμαλή, Attic αμαλή, απαλή hamalē, hapalē)
άξος áxos 'wood' (Hes. Attic ὓλη húlē)
άργελλα árgella 'bathing hut' (LSJ Greek of Magna Graecia and Pokorny Cimmerian ἄργιλλα árgilla 'subterranean dwelling', Old Indian argala-Η, argalā 'latch, bolt', PIE *areg-, hence Romanian argea (pl. argele), 'wooden construction', Albanian ragal 'cabin')
αργιόπους argiópous 'eagle' (LSJ Attic αργίπους argÃ*pous 'swift- or white-footed', PIE *hrg'i-pods < PIE *arg + PIE *ped)
αρκόν arkón 'leisure, idleness' (LSJ Attic ἀργός argós 'lazy, idle' nom. sing., αργόν acc.)
άσπιλος áspilos 'torrent' (Hes. χείμαρρος kheÃ*marrhos, Attic άσπιλος áspilos 'without stain, spotless, pure')
βάσκιοι báskioi 'fasces' (Hes. Attic δεσμοι φρυγάνων desmoì phrūgánōn, Pokorny Macedonian βασκευταί baskeutaÃ*, Attic φασκίδες phaskÃ*des, perhaps Attic φάσκωλος pháskōlos 'leather sack', PIE *bhasko-)
γοτάν gotán 'pig' acc. sing. (PIE *gwou- 'cattle', Hes. Attic ὗν hûn 'swine')
γράβιον grábion 'torch' (PIE *grabh-, 'hornbeam', Umbrian Grabovius an oak-god, etymologically linked by LSJ and Pokorny to Attic κράβ(β)ατος kráb(b)atos 'couch, bed', Latin grabātus - which LSJ derives from Macedonian - hence modern Greek κρεβάτι kreváti 'bed')
δανός danós 'death', δανῶν danōn 'murderer' (Hes. Attic thánatos θάνατος 'death', from root θαν- than-)
δάρυλλος dárullos 'oak' (Hes. Attic δρῦς drûs, PIE *doru-)
έταιροι etaîroi 'comrades' nom. pl. (Attic έταιροι hetaîroi, PIE *swe-t-aro < suffixed form of *swe)
ίλαξ Ã*lax 'the holm-oak, evergreen or scarlet oak' (Hes. Attic πρίνος prînos, Latin ilex)
καλαρρυγαί kalarrhugaÃ* 'ditches, trenches' (Hes. τάφροι - attributed to Amerias) -LSJ: Ambraciot word, acc. to Sch.Gen.Iliad 21.259 (in form kalarua).
κάναδοι kánadoi 'jaws' nom. pl. (Attic γνάθοι gnáthoi, PIE *genu, 'jaw')
κάραβος kárabos 'gate, door' (Hes. Attic karabos 'meat roasted over coals'; Attic karabos 'stag-beetle'; 'crayfish'; 'light ship'; hence Modern Greek karavi)
karabos 'the worms in dry wood' (Attic karabos, 'stag-beetle, horned beetle; crayfish')
karabos 'a sea creature' (Attic karabos, 'a crayfish, a prickly crustacean; stag-beetle')
κίκερροι kÃ*[k]erroi 'pale ones (?)' (Hes. Attic ὦχροι ōkhroi, PIE *kιiker- 'pea')
κλινότροχον klinótrokhon, according to Theophrastus a sort of maple of Stageira, Pokorny Attic γλεῖνον gleînon), LSJ: γλίνος or γλείνος, Cretan maple, Acer creticum, Thphr.HP3.3.1, 3.11.2.
κόμβους kómbous 'molars' acc. pl. (Attic γομφίους gomphÃ*ous, dim. of γόμφος gómphos 'a large, wedge-shaped bolt or nail; any bond or fastening', PIE *gombh-)
λακεδάμα lakedáma 'salt water with garlic', Hes.; according to v. Blumenthal (1930), -ama corresponds to Attic ἁλμυρός halmurós 'salty'; laked- is cognate to English leek, possibly related is Λακεδαίμων Laked-aÃ*mōn, the name of the Spartans.
λείβηθρον leÃ*bēthron 'stream' (Hes. Attic λεβιθρον rheîthron, also λιβάδιον libádion, 'a small stream', dim. of λιβάς libás; PIE *lei, 'to flow')
Πύδνα Púdna, a toponym (Pokorny Attic πυθμήν puthmēn 'bottom, sole, base of a vessel', PIE *bhudhnā)
σάρισσα sárissa (also σάρισα sarisa), a long pike used by the Macedonian phalanx (Theophrastus, Polybius; etymology unknown - v. Blumenthal (1930) reconstructs *skwrvi-entia- to a root for 'cut', but this is speculative; perhaps Attic σαίρω saÃ*rō 'to show the teeth, grin like a dog', esp. in scorn or malice, also 'to sweep clean or away')

Also an regarding quote as about the ancient Macedonian language from Maria Nystazopoulou Pelekidou



Certain doubts have been expressed about the Greek character of the Ancient Macedonians' language, mainly because, up to now, no texts or even complete phrases written in the Macedonian dialect have been found. Today, however, after the comparative study of all known linguistic material, linguists, as well as historians, accept the Greek character of the Macedonian dialect.

The following elements prove that Macedonian is a dialect of the Greek Language:

The name of the Macedonians itself is Greek: the word μακεδνός [makednos] is already attested to in Homer (Odyssey, η 106: οία τε φύλλα μακεδνής αιγείροιο) [= like fluttering leaves of a tall poplar tree] and means "high, tall and slender". That is, this ethnic name is one of those which denoted the physical characteristics of a people. Also the proper names of the Ancient Macedonians, the names of gods, months, etc., as well as most place-names are Greek, in Macedonian dialect, and bear no resemblance to Thracean-Illyrian names.

If the Macedonians started being hellenized in the 5th c. B.C., as the historians of Skopje clain, how can it be explained that they retained proper names, as well as the names of the months and place-names in Macedonian dialect which are undisputedly Greek?

How did the Macedonians of the 5th and 4th c. B.C. acquire these Greek dialectal names, which do not belong to the Attic dialect, if they did not inherit them via a tradition which had always been Greek?


The same observations apply to lexical material. Relatively few words of the Macedonian dialect have been preserved: about 153 and they are recorded by Athenaeus and in the Lexicon of Hesychios, who drew them mainly from the work of the Macedonian lexicographer Amerias. It should be noted that ancient lexicographers did not record all the words of a language or dialect, but only those that presented a certain peculiarity or difficulty in comprehension. For this reason foreign words and idioms are recorded, and thus the proportion of foreign words is not representative of the total vocabulary of the Macedonian dialect. Many of the words which have been treasured as Macedonian occur in all Greek dialects, but in the Macedonian dialect they had a specific meaning and they were recorded by the ancient lexicographers, for example the word υπασπιστής (adjutant). These words that were handed down as Macedonian do not bear any resemblance to the Thracian-Illyrian language. The Macedonian linguistic material (proper names, place-names and common nouns) testifies to the Greek character of the Macedonian dialect: The etymology of the words is Greek; the features and vowel changes are common in Greek; so are the inflections and endings. As for the few words which are recorded as Macedonian in the Lexicon of Hesyxhios and which are not considered by some to be Greek, it is most likely that they are loan-words, a phenomenon that is observed in all languages, and one which does not put their origin in doubt.

The historians of Skopje use the quotation of Plutarch that Alexander ανεβόα μακεδονιστί καλών τούς υπασπιστάς [= called out in Macedonian speech a summons to his corps of guards] (Plutarch's Alexander, 51,4), as proof that the languagewhich the Macedonian soldiers spoke was not Greek. But here the word μακεδονιστί means the local dialect, as the respective terms δωριστί, αττικιστί ιωνιστί etc.attest, and not a separate non-Greek language. In fact, Alexander and the Macedonians disseminated the Greek language throughout the world they conquered; Alexander gave an order that the inscriptions which were in a foreign language were to be explained in Greek, so that they would be comprehensible to his troops (τήν επιγραφήν αναγνούς εκέλευσεν ελληνικοίς υποχαράξαι γράμμασιν [= After reading the inscription, he ordered it to be repeated below in Greek letters]: Plutarch's Alexander, 69,2) and he also ordered that the troop of Persians "should learn the Greek language and be trained to use Macedonian weapons" (εκέλευε γράμματά τε ελληνικά μανθάνειν καί μακεδονικοίς όπλοις εντρέφεσθαι Plutarch's Alexander, 47,6).

The fact that no written documents in Macedonian dialect have been preserved does not prove their non-Greek origin, as the historians of Skopje claim. Indeed, no dialectal inscriptions or even a phrase of a dialectal Macedonian text have been found. All the inscriptions found in Macedonia date after the 5th c. B.C., when the Macedonians used, at least in public life, the Attic dialect. However, in other regions of Greece, undisputedly Greek, no preserved written documents of the 7th or even 6th c. B.C. have been found either. The cultural phenomenon of Athens cannot be regarded as a means of comparison with other regions, especially in order to draw conclusions concerning the national origin of their inhabitants.

It must be noted that the recent excavations at Vergina, in addition to other very important finds regarding the history of Macedonia, have brought to light, a series of inscribed grave stelai which can be dated with certainty to the second half of the 4th and the beginning of the 3rd c. B.C. These inscriptions as we know from the description of Prof. M. Andronikos present a very significant collection of common Macedonian names, male and female, numbering 75. All these names are Greek, such as Αλκέτας, Άλκιμος,
Δρύκαλος, Ξενοκράτης, Πευκόλαος, Πιερίων - except for one (Αμάδοκος) which is Thracian - and many of them are characteristically Macedonian and unknown to Attica, attesting to their Macedonian origin. These names refute the theory that only the ruling class had become hellenized, because they do not belong to the royal family, or to the nobility, or to the ruling class: they are the names of ordinary citizens and many of them date back to the beginning of the 4th and the end of the 5th c. B.C. Therefore, as Prof. M. Andronikos points out, we have "epigraphic evidence... that at the end of the 5th c. B.C., the Macedonians who lived in the first capital of the Macedonian kingdom [in Aeges]... had Greek names".

Consequently, both the evidence of the sources and the study of the linguistic material, lead to the conclusion that the Ancient Macedonians were a Greek tribe. The theory that it was a non-Greek population, whose ruling class became hellinized, has no basis in fact. The people of Macedonia spoke Greek, a local Greek dialect and thus it was easy for them to adopt the Attic dialect. Even after the Roman conquest, the Greek language was still spoken in the region, despite foreign domination and the strong presence of Latin-speaking soldiers and other representatives of Rome. It is of primary importance that the inscriptions of Roman and early Byzantine times, which were found in Macedonia, are in Greek - except, of course, for the regions where there were Roman colonies, for example at Philippi-, while the inscriptions which were found in the more northern regions are in Latin. The Greek language was deeply rooted since it was the language of the Macedonian people, not only of the ruling class and the authorities.

A good summary of Macedonian epigraphs is here: http://epigraphy.packhum.org/inscriptions//gis?region=4&subregion=11

There, you may find many other Greek inscriptions.

Some quotes from several sources......

Thomas Martin, ‘Ancient Greece – From Prehistoric to Hellenic Times’ Yale University Press, 1996, pgs 188-189:

"Macedonians had their own language related to Greek, but members of the elite that dominated Macedonian society routinely learned to speak Greek because they thought of themselves and indeed all Macedonians as Greek by blood. At the same time, Macedonians looked down on the Greeks to the south as a soft lot unequal to the adversities of life in Macedonia. The Greeks reciprocated this scorn."

Ulrich Wilcken, ‘Alexander the Great’ W.W. Norton &amp; Company, Reissue Edition March 1997:

"It seems more and more certain that the Macedonians were a Greek tribe related to the Dorians. However, as they stayed high up in the distant north, they could not participate in the progress of civilization of the Greek people that migrated southward.

A strong Illyrian and Thracian influence can thus be recognized in Macedonian speech and manners. These however are only trifles compared with the Greek character of the Macedonian nationality; for example the names of the true full blooded Macedonians, especially of the princes and nobles, are purely Greek in their formation and sounds.

And yet when we take into account the political conditions, religion and morals of the Macedonians, our conviction is strengthened that they were a Greek race akin to the Dorians."

J.R. Hamilton, ‘Alexander the Great’ Hutchinson, London, 1973:

"That the Macedonians were of Greek stock seems certain. The claim made by the Argead dynasty to be of Argive descent may be no more than a generally accepted myth, but Macedonian proper names, such as Ptolemaios or Philippos, are good Greek names, and the names of the Macedonian months, although differed from those of Athens or Sparta, were also Greek. The language spoken by the Macedonians, which
Greeks of the classical period found intelligible, appears to have been a primitive north-west Greek dialect, much influenced by the languages of the neighboring barbarians."


Nicholas G. L. Hammond, ‘Philip of Macedon’ Duckworth Publishing, February 1998:

"Philip was born a Greek of the most aristocratic, indeed of divine, descent... Philip was both a Greek and a Macedonian, even as Demosthenes was a Greek and an Athenian...The Macedonians over whom Philip was to rule were an outlying family member of the Greek-speaking peoples."

"As subjects of the king the Upper Macedonians were henceforth on the same footing as the original Macedonians, in that they could qualify for service in the King's Forces and thereby obtain the elite citizenship. At one bound the territory, the population and wealth of the kingdom were doubled. Moreover since the great majority of the new subjects were speakers of the West Greek dialect, the enlarged army was Greek-speaking throughout."


Cambridge Univ. Press, 1998,Ancient Histories

The evidence for the language of the Macedonians has been reviewed and discussed by Kalleris and Hammond, Griffith, and many others, all contending that it was a dialect of Greek. The increasing volume of surviving public and private inscriptions makes it quite clear that there was no written language but Greek. There may be room for argument over spoken forms, or at least over local survivals of earlier occupancy, but it is hard to imagine what kind of authority might sustain that. There is no evidence for a different "Macedonian" language that cannot be as easily explained in terms of dialect or accent.


Malcolm Errington, "A History of Macedonia", Univ. of California Press, LA, 1990

"Ancient allegations that the Macedonians were non-Greeks all had their origin in Athens at the time of the struggle with Philip II. Then as now, political struggle created the prejudice. The orator Aischines once even found it necessary, in order to counteract the prejudice vigorously fomented by his opponents, to defend Philip on this issue and describe him at a meeting of the Athenian Popular Assembly as being 'Entirely Greek'. Demosthenes' allegations were lent on appearance of credibility by the fact, apparent to every observer, that the life-style of the Macedonians, being determined by specific geographical and historical conditions, was different from that of a Greek city-state. This alien way of life was, however, common to western Greeks of Epeiros, Akarnania and Aitolia, as well as to the Macedonians, and their fundamental Greek nationality was never doubted. Only as a consequence of the political disagreement with Macedonia was the issue raised at all.

About the dialect on the derveni-papyrus:

http://omega.cohums.ohio-state.edu/mailing_lists/BMCR-L/2006/0482.php

The dialect is not only a mixture of Attic and Ionic (11-14), but also contains a few Doric forms, which need explanation, as I noted in
'The Physicist as Hierophant: Aristophanes, Socrates and the Authorship
of the Derveni Papyrus', ZPE 118 (1997), 61-94, at 62-3.

Although there is no doubt in my mind about the Greek ethnicity of the Macedonians, as there is no doubt in the minds of almost all historians, the fight we have taken on is not a new one. As a lover of old books I have discovered a history series first written in the late 1800's (my edition is 1909) and a set of encyclopedias from 1925. The first states unequivocally that the Macedonians were Greek. But the latter states that the Macedonian "question" has always been around and that the language of the Macedonians was "incomprehensible" to Greeks. To the writers of this article that was enough to question the ethnicity of the Macedonians. So it's not a new fight my friends, we just have a different enemy.

But some go so far as to call the whole of the country Macedonia, as far as Corcyra, at the same time stating as their reason that in tonsure, language, short cloak, and other things of the kind, the usages of the inhabitants are similar

Strabo 7.7.8

From Otto Hoffmann's Die Makedonen, ihre Sprache und ihr Volkstum (http://img461.imageshack.us/img461/7051/ottohoffmanndiemakedonetk5.jpg)

I translated a few things to english and i ll add more when I finish more chapters and have time to translate the information we can get


I.5. Macedonian Elements in the êïéÃ*Þ and modern Greek

[....]
The noun êïñÜóéïÃ* (translit. korásion) "Girl", which can be found many times in the delphic Inscriptions of the II. and I. century b.c. (Wendel Index 200), is used by the comedian Philippides as îåÃ*éêüÃ* (translit. xenikón) and the Scholar Ven. B agrees with his remark Y 404
>>åß äÃ� ôñÃ�ðïéôï ôü Þ ôïõ ðñùôïôýðïõ åßò Ãœ ðáñÜ Äùñéåýóé, äéÜ ôïý Ãœ ðñõìÃ*ÜóéïÃ*, êïñõöÜóéïÃ*. ïýôùò Ã�÷åé êáß ôï êïñÜóéïÃ*, ü ìÜëëüÃ* Ã�óôé ÌáêåäïÃ*éêüÃ*<<

In another work of Philippides we can find a word, that is very common in hellenistic prose, for the first time. ñýìç (translit. rymi) "alley" is declared as non-attic by Phrynichus who in (Phrynichus) 487 ed. Rutherford mentions its macedonian origin.

>>ñýìç êáé ôïýôï ïß ìÃ�Ã*` Ã�èçÃ*áßïé Ã�ðß ôÞò üñìÞò Ã�ðßèåóáÃ*, ïß äÃ� Ã*ýÃ* Üìáèåßò Ã�ðß ôïý óôåÃ*ùðïý. äïêåß äÃ� ìïé êáé ôïýôï ÌáêåäïÃ*éêüÃ* åßÃ*áé<<

It is also Phrynichus who mentions the word ðáñåìâïëÞ (translit. paremvoli), which Polybius translates as "Camp" (in Polybbius VI, 29,1), as Macedonian

>>äåéÃ*þò ÌáêåäïÃ*éêüÃ*, êáßôïé Ã�Ã*çÃ* ôù óôñáôïðåäù ÷ñÞóèáé, ðëåßóôù êáé äïêßìùÃ* üÃ*ôé.<<

[.....]

to be continued, i had finished the translation of alot more but my pc crushed down and all the data was lost. I m not in the mood right now to translate 2 pages for a 2nd time ;)

(great book by the way)

great work Giourkas, keep going!!:clapping:

What a bombardement...
While spending less time on the net until my new connection arrives, i'm doing a report on the Tsakonian Doric language. All those characteristics appear there as well. When I'm finnished we should start comparing with the macedonian texts available :D

Great idea,

I m reading right now and i m stunned about the huge amount of linguistic research Hoffmann has done. He even did some research on the modern greek that is spoken in Macedonia in the end of the 19th century and found alot of phonetical similarities with ancient macedonian

In his list of "Makedonische Worte" he has some words that Otto Hoffmann (Makedonen, ihre Sprache und ihr Volkstum) has marked as words from the neu-makedonischen dialekt of the modern greek language. When Hoffmann wrote his book (1906) this dialect was almost extinct and he points out that it is necessary to analyze the dialect soon because it wont exist for long.

Words of the neo-macedonian dialect with ancient origin:

áãÜóìïõò (agásmous):
áãÜóìïõò = çäýïóìïò (from áäé-üóìïò = áäý-ïóìïò)

Üëéïò (álios): meaning "Sun"; modern gr. Þëéïò; ancient mac. áÃ�ëéïò

áÃ*Üâá (anáva): meaning "upwards" (gr. áÃ*Ã�âá)

áÃ*Þãáôïò (anígatos): meaning "unworn" (homeric: "Ã*çãÜôïò")
e.g. "Ã�÷ù Ã�Ã*á öïõóôÜÃ*é ìåôáîùôü, êáëü áÃ*Þãáôï"

âñïõóéÜëá (vrousiála): (gr. Þëéáæù)

ãáÃ*éÜ (ganiá): "earing" from "ãÜÃ*ïò" (ancient word for "juwellry")

ãÜóôñá (gástra): somekind of "oven" is called like that; the homeric form is "ãÜóôñç"

ãëÃ�ðïõ (glépou): neo-macedonian form of the greek "âëÃ�ðù" (i see/watch); of doric origin (peloponnesian dorians spoke it as "ãëÃ�ðïé" from "ãëÃ�ðéïò" = "watcher")

ãëÃ�öáñïÃ* (gléfaron): neo-mac. form of the greek "âëÃ�öáñïÃ*"

i ll add the rest of Otto Hoffmanns words-list of the "neu-makedonischen Dialekt":

äé÷Üëé (dicháli): meaning "fork"
[...]äé÷Üëé "fork" (= äé÷ÞëéïÃ*; ancient greek ÷çëÞ, modern greek ÷áëß "claw"

êÜôáâá (kátava): meaning "downwards" neo-mac. form of the greek "êáôÃ�âá"

êëáìïýñá (klamúra): meaning "twig" or "sprig"
êëáìïýñá "twig" [or "sprig"] (from ancient mac. êëáììßò)

êëùóìÃ�Ã*ïò (klosménos): the opposite of "ëáÃ*üò"
e.g. "ôï Ã*Þìá ôïýôï åßÃ*áé ëáÃ*ü, åêåßÃ*ï åßÃ*áé ðëÃ�ïÃ* êëùóìÃ�Ã*ï

êïýðá (kúpa): meaning "cup" or (in modern usage) glass.; mondern greek form is "êýðåëëï"
êïýðá deriving from the homeric êýðåëëïÃ* ("cup"/"can")

êïýôñá (kútra): meaning "cranium"
êïýôñá is equal to the word êýôôáñïò that is first found in Aristophanes' works

ëáÃ*üò (lanós): meaning "smooth"
e.g. "ôï Ã*Þìá ôïýôï åßÃ*áé ëáÃ*ü"[...]
attic-ionic form is ëÞÃ*ïò

ìáêïýò (makús): meaning "poppy seed"
ìáêïýò "poppy seed" (=ìÞêùÃ*)

ìëßÃ*á (mlína): meaning "cake"
ìëßÃ*á "cake", shortform of ìåëßÃ*á, attic. ìåëßÃ*ç

Ã*Ã�áìá (néama): meaning "waste land" or "new land"
Ã*Ã�áìá "waste land" or "new land" derives from Ã*åÜù "new land" and the homeric Ã*åéüò "waste land"

îçñüò (xirós): ancient greek "øçñüò"; ancient macedonian "îçñüò"

îéÜëé (xiáli): meaning "knife"
îéÜëé "knife" (= îõÞëç)

ðáéóßìïõ (pesímu): meaning "to come" and "to go/leave"; modern greek ðçãáéÃ*åñ÷ïìüò

ñáãÜÃ*á (ragána): meaning "nettler" or "nuisance"; from homeric ñÞóóù and ancient macedonian ñÜãá

ñïõìÃ*ßäá (rumnída): [hoffmann doesnt write anything about this word and just leaves it in his list as it is]

óáêïëáßâá (sakoléva): meaning "canvas"; doric form of the homeric "ëáßöïò" (doric ö = â )

óôáëá÷ßäá (stalachída): meaning "fear/disturbance"; macedonian form of the greek óôáëáãìüò "pain/sorrow"

ôáëéôïõìÜôé (talitumáti): macedonian name for "sunflower"; from ôïõ Üëéïõ ôï ìÜôé (the bud of the sun)

ֆÃ*ù (cháno): meaning "to dehisce"
ç ðëçãÞ ֆÃ*åé

÷ïõëáßâé (choulévi): a dialectic form of "óáêïëáéâßïÃ*"

øéöß (psifí): meaning "sword/knife"; macedonian form of îéößïÃ* "sword" ; modern greek îßöïò"

øéôñß (psitrí): macedonian form of "îéôñß" (= îõóôñßïÃ*)

For what it is worth, the evidence - sparse as it is - suggests that a form of Northwest Greek was spoken in Makedonia, but structural linguistic affiliation does not guarantee intelligibility and it is entirely possible that the Makedonian dialect was as difficult for other dialect speakers to comprehend as the speech of the Aitolian Eurytanes was unintelligible to Thoukydides (3-94.5).
[Jonathan Hall, Hellenicity, page 155]

Can anybody tell me why I cannot see the Greek writing?

If you have IE then go to View-Encoding- and click to Greek(Windows) and you will read the Greek text.

Mozilla?

something has changed here
Linguist List - Description of Ancient Macedonian (http://linguistlist.org/forms/langs/LLDescription.cfm?code=xmk)

“There is no reason to doubt that all dialects were mutually intelligible for purposes of simple communication, and most of them in the case of more extended discourse. Yet I must confess to a strong impression that if a Thessalian or Locrian, Arcadian or Elean, not to speak of a Cyprian or Cretan had made an extended harangue before a general convention of Greek States, in the unmitigated form of his dialect, such as we know it in early inscriptions, he would have been followed with extreme difficulty, if at all.”

Carl D. Buck - noted Linguist

The essay of the linguist Anna Panayiotou about ancient Macedonian language has been selectively used by FYROM propagandists to fit their purposes.

In 1996 Anna Panayiotou presented her views about ancient Macedonian dialect in the 6th international symposium about ancient Macedonia where clearly she states ancient Macedonian is a dialect of Greek.

Its apparent, yet from the early 4rth Century, Macedonians, greek-speaking tribe of North-Western dialectical group, up to that time in the fridges of Greek-speaking world, adopted firstly for their diplomatical contacts and later for all the forms of written speech, the Attic dialect

I now that Old Macedonian has the word Kandoj " Jaws " * .
I compare it with the Albanian dialects :
Shkip ( Kosovan ) Knoj 1: " Sing " ; 2: " Jaws " ,
Geg ( Northern Albania ) Kandoj 1: " Sing " ; 2: " Jaws " ,
Tosk ( Southern Albania ) Kendoj 1: " Sing " ; 2: " Jaws " ,
Standart Albanian Këndoj 1: " Sing " ; 2: " Jaws " .
-------------------------------------------------------------
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Macedonian_language

Those theories are worthless nationalism and are made for retarded people or people of low intellect .

I now that Old Macedonian has the word Kandoj " Jaws " * .
I compare it with the Albanian dialects :
Shkip ( Kosovan ) Knoj 1: " Sing " ; 2: " Jaws " ,
Geg ( Northern Albania ) Kandoj 1: " Sing " ; 2: " Jaws " ,
Tosk ( Southern Albania ) Kendoj 1: " Sing " ; 2: " Jaws " ,
Standart Albanian Këndoj 1: " Sing " ; 2: " Jaws " .
-------------------------------------------------------------
* Wiki .
Peace Lover welcome in the Macedonia on the Web.
Now as about your post can you tell us please which ancient source mention that the word Kandoj is old or ancient Macedonian ?

Peace Lover welcome in the Macedonia on the Web.
Now as about your post can you tell us please which ancient source mention that the word Kandoj is old or ancient Macedonian ?

κάναδοι kanadoi 'jaws' nom. pl. (Attic γνάθοι gnathoi, PIE *genu, 'jaw') (Laconian καναδόκα kanadoka notch (V) of an arrow χηλὴ ὀϊστοῦ)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Macedonian_language

Your source (wiki) doesnt say that the albanian kandoj is ancient Macedonian. The Greek word kanados suggesting that is macedonian according Hoffman.

I just say that is closely to Geg Albanian dialect , can easly be a Macedon influence to Albanian .

6. MACEDONIAN

North of the Greeks, bracketed by Illyrians and Thracians, lived the Macedonians. Much uncertaintysurrounds the linguistic status ofthe Macedonian peoples. Though, under the patronage ofMacedonian kings, Philip the Second and his son Alexander the Great, Greek culture would be spread across the Mediterranean and Near Eastern world and the Greek language would become a lingua franca (the Attic-based Koine dialect; see Ch. 2, §1) spoken from Italyto India, it remains unclear ifGreekwas the native language ofthe Macedonians (see Brixhe and Panayotou 1994b:206-207 for a synopsis of ideas about the identity of Macedonian).

To be sure, the Greek orator Demosthenes, in the fourth century BC, can revile and lambaste Philip as one of the barbaroi ("barbarians," those who do not speak Greek, i.e., those who babble; Orations 3.17) and rehearse how in the old days the Macedonian king had been rightly subject to the Greeks, as barbaroi should be (Orations 3.24). He can skewer Philip with the charge that, not only is he not a Greek and unrelated to the Greeks, he is not even a barbaros from some worthwhile place, but he is a plague out of Macedonia - a place from which you cannot even acquire a good slave (Orations 9.31). A century earlier, Herodotus had told the story of an ancestor of Philip, Alexander the First (a contempo*rary of Herodotus), who had been allowed to compete in games at Olympia - though barbaroi were excluded from the competition - because he was able to demonstrate satis*factorily that he himself was descended from a Greek banished from Argos (Histories 5.22; 8.137-139).

Explicit references to "Macedonian speech" exist. Plutarch, the Greek savant of the first and second centuries AD, when writing of Cleopatra (Life of Antony 27.3-4), the last of the Ptolemies (the Macedonian kings of Egypt), lauds her linguistic abilities, reporting that she could speak the languages of the Ethiopians, Troglodytes, Hebrews, Arabs, Syrians, Medes, and Parthians. In contrast, her male predecessors had not even learned Egyptian and some had even "ceased to speak Macedonian" (μακεδονίζειν εκλιπόντων). Presumably they had continued to speak Greek (i.e., had not taken a vow of silence). Athenaeus, a Greek writer of the later second century AD, in his account of a "Learned Banquet" (Deipnosophistae 3.121f-122a), places on the lips of one of the guests, the cynic Cynulcus, a Latin word decocta (a kind of drink made by boiling and then rapidly cooling a liquid); in turn, Athenaeus has another guest, Ulpian (an "Atticist," promoting the use of untainted Attic Greek), rebuke Cynulcus for uttering a barbarism (!). Cynulcus fires back, retorting that even in the best old Greek one finds Persian loanwords and that he knows many Attic Greeks "using Macedonian speech" (μακεδονίζοντας; a participle from Plutarch's verb). Elsewhere, Plutarch uses an adverb makedonisti (μακεδονιστί) having the same sense. For example, in his Life of Alexander (51.4), Plutarch recounts how the Macedonian conqueror, in a fit of rage, refusing to be quieted by his body guards, shouted out for the hypaspistai (Macedonian infantry troops, one contingent of the army of Alexander), "calling in Macedonian - and this was a sign of a great disturbance" The precise sense of "speaking Macedonian" in these and other passages can be and has been debated; yet when these references to Macedonian speech are considered in their context, it is not difficult for one to conclude that what is being reported is the use of a distinct, non-Greek ("barbarian") Macedonian language.
In contrast, however, other classical authors explicitly identify the Macedonians as a Greek people. Polybius, the Greek historian of the second century BC, for example, describes Macedonians and Greeks as being homophylos (ομόφυλος), "of the same race" or "akin" (Histories 9.37.7). For references to other, similar texts, see Katicic 1976:107-108.

An interesting case is provided by an instance in which Macedonians identify themselves as Greeks and speakers of Greek. The Roman historian Livy (first centuries BC and AD), writing of events in the war waged by Philip the Fifth of Macedon and his Arcarnanian Greek allies against Athens, with Rome as its own ally, records a meeting of the council of the Aetolian Confederacy, at which representatives from Philip, from Athens and from Rome address the council, each seeking Aetolian assistance in the war (200 BC). In his speech to the council, the Macedonian ambassador refers to the Romans as "a foreign people set apart more by language and customs and laws than by the space of sea and land" (31.29.12). In contrast, "Aetolians, Acarnanians and Macedonians [are] people of the same language... [and] with foreigners, with barbarians all Greeks are, and will be, at eternal war" (31.29.15). The dialect of the Aetolian Confederacy, a league of the Aetolians of northwest Greece, was the Northwest Greek Koine, a "common" dialect used throughout regions controlled by the Confederacy (see Ch. 3, §1.1.5). Is it this lingua franca to which Livy has his Macedonian diplomat self-servingly refer? One could well imagine that it would be the Macedonian's langue de choix on such an occasion. The Acarnanians also inhabited northwest Greece, though Acarnanian inscriptions from this period are written in the Doric Koine, only slightly different from the Aetolian dialect.

Surviving Macedonian texts have not proved helpful in identifying the native language of the Macedonians. Most of the Macedonian inscriptions are written in Attic Greek, the dialect broadly