Macedonian Symbols

[akritas]

The 16-pointed star "Sun of Vergina" as also named discovered in recent excavations as the symbol of the royal Macedonian dynasty of ancient Greece, and which is now being claimed as their own by the Skopjans, was widely used in Attica during the classical period, long before its adoption by the Macedonian royal house.
The star, identical with the one decorating the larnax discovered in the tomb of Philip II of Macedonia, father of Alexander the Great, at Vergina in Northern Greece, has been found as one of the elements of decoration on at least four temples of the classical era, including two on the Acropolis of Athens.
The same symbol can also be seen on a 4th Century, B.C. urn on display at the Museum of Naples in Italy. It was found in Carnossa, Italy and depicts a female form inscribed with the word "Hellas" and flanked by the figures of Zeus and Athena.

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/7181/shields54050024up.gif

The 8-ray star, emblem of the ancient kingdom of Makedonia, is a very common symbol for ancient findings. In the photograph there is a small golden decorating disk, found in the antechamber of Philippos' tomb.

http://cc.ece.ntua.gr/~conster/English/PageData/Images/tr8ray_star.jpg

The 16-ray star as it was designed on the golden larnaka that contained Philippos' remains. That appearance of the 16-ray star is possibly the only appearance on ancient findings

http://cc.ece.ntua.gr/~conster/English/PageData/Images/tr16ray_star.jpg

As already said except in Attica also and the Spartans used the same eblem (8 stars) in shields

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/4452/shields70063011nc.gif

akritas

PS: a great thanks to istor for the drawings

[Ptolemy]

- Vase found in an ancient Greek city in Sicily and is displayed in a museum in Naples. On this vase a woman is illustrated who according to the inscription is Hellas. Along with Hellas are Dias and Athena and on both sides of the gods the "sun of Vergina" is drawn.

- Column's capital of Ionic order (5th century BC, Museum of Kavala), from a temple of an Athenian colony, Naples (present day Kavala), carries in the middle an exact duplicate symbol to that of Vergina. This temple (of Diana or Artemis) has been chronologically dated at 5th century BC, before the Macedonians expanded beyond the Paggaion mountain and a century before Philip's death.

- Amphora from Milos (650 BC, National Archaeological Museum of Athens), on which Apollo and Artemis (Diana) are illustrated and on its neck Achilles and Memnon are fighting. Next to Artemis is a 16-ray symbol.

- Cup (485-480 BC, museum of Louvre, Paris), where Agamemnon leads Brisida (for the possession of whom Achilles left the Trojan war) to his tent accompanied by Takthyvios and Diomedes. Agamemnon wears a royal collar with two 16-ray symbols.

- Coin from Syracuse (260 BC, National Archaeological Museum of Athens). One side has the head of tyrant Ieron and on the other side goddess Nike riding a chariot driven by 4 horses. There is an inscription "BASILEOS IERONOS" (King Ieron) and above the word "BASILEOS" is the 16-ray symbol.

- Crater (435 BC, British Museum, London). The Sun, Moon and Stars in humanoid form are riding a chariot. The head of the Sun resembles that of Vergina.

- Crater (480 BC, Kunsthistoisches Museum, Vienna). Poseidon fights Polyvotis, who has a 16-ray symbol on his left breastplate.

- Crater (4th century BC, Staatlishe Antikensammlungen, Munich), Eos (Aurora), the morning star, rides her chariot accompanied by the sun. There are six 16-ray symbols here.

- Pitcher (490 BC, Museum of Fine Arts, Boston). Danae carries her baby Perseus. There is also an urn with lionlike legs carrying two 16-ray symbols exactly the same as that of Vergina.

- Part of a kalpis, a pitcher with three handles (460 BC, Ermitaz museum, Petroupolis). Amphiaraos, mythical hero of Argos, bids farewell to his wife Eriphyle. The 16-ray symbol is on his breastplate.

- Crater (4th century BC, Staatlishe Antikensammlungen, Munich), where Orpheus is in Hades. The only 16-ray symbol there is exactly the same as the one from Vergina.

- Water-jug (480 BC, museum of Louvre, Paris) baby Hercules wrestles the snakes. His cradle is adorned with a 16-ray symbol exactly the same as the one from Vergina.

- Amphora (515 BC, Staatlishe Antikensammlungen, Munich). Hercules is on Olympus and there are five 16-ray symbols.

- Sicilian crater (350 BC, Archaeological museum, Lipari, Italy). Adrastos separates the quarreling heroes Polynice and Tideas. The palace is adorned with 16-ray symbols.

About the Attic shields here..
http://www.ritsumei.ac.jp/se/~luv20009/Greek_shield_patterns_1.html

[akritas]

Thanks Perseas for the link:spkennysh

[akritas]

There is nothing in common between The FYROM’s lion and the lion's skin that Alexander the Great wears in some coins. The FYROM’s lion is actually the Bulgarian lion, which is depicted in the Bulgarian Coat of Arms.

Alexander’s lion is the lion's skin that Heracles killed in Nemea, which is one of the 12 deeds executed by the mythological hero. The lion skin that Alexander the Great wears signifies his ancestral relationship to Heracles (Hercules). There is an unpublished inscription from Xanthos dating from the third century BC (cf. Robert, Amyzon, 1,162, n 31) where the Ptolemies refer to their Ancestors as “Herakleidas Argeadas� (Errington, A History of Macedonia, p 265, n 6).

Source:
[Marcus Templar, Fallacies and Facts in the Macedonia issue,2003]

[akritas]

As I have already explain the 16 star or 8star is a symbol that used from the ancient Greeks.
Below is picture from an amfora of 5th cent, that show the Achilles.
Give attention in the shoulder-guards :read:


http://img457.imageshack.us/img457/6471/pagesfromospreyachilles460bc8k.jpg


and

http://www.skidmore.edu/academics/classics/courses/2000spring/cl206/achilles.jpg

All the stars together in the Achilles picture.


and if anyone has wear glasses http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/3729/asteri1uh.jpg

[Ptolemy]

Seems its not the only one who shows clearly 8/16 ray similar with Vergina's sun.

One more here from this Attic vase...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v250/technotut/vase.jpg

The pic closer..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v250/technotut/closer.jpg

[akritas]

The picture is from the Spartan Archaelogical museum and show figuirines(soldiers,horses,shields, birds e.t.c.).These figuirines found in the temple of the Artemidas Orthias.

Please give your attention in four thinks

-The Artemis was also a Godness that worship from the Macedonians
-The shields that showed in figuirines and clearly you can see the 8th or 16th star ancient Greek symbols.
-The date of those figuirines estimated at 8th-7th cent, a close date years) that estimated the Greek settlement (Karanos) in Emathia.
-The connections of the Spartan Symbols with the Macedonian Symbols. Actually both were Dorians.


http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/6332/spartanfiguirines7thcent2wz.jpg

[akritas]

The Macedonian Tomb of Lyson and Kallikles at Leucadia


The tomb is dated to ca. 200 B.C. The tomb was accidentaly discovered in 1942 at Leucadia Emathias and subsequently excavated by Ch. Macaronas. The results of the investigation were published in a book by his collaborator, Stella Miller, in 1993.

Please observe that Star in the wall.
Damn again the Greeks know the Star before 1977!!

http://alexander.macedonia.culture.gr/2/21/211/21117n/00/mk17n041.jpg


The monument today is not open to the public and entrance is allowed only to archaeologists and students of Archaeology.

[Otto]

Amazing post Akritas... The Vergina Stars origins from Greek Hellenic symbolism is quite obvious, although you make it clear to the less versed historically! :)

[akritas]

Below is a picture from a Lacon Cratere of 6th cent. Of course you can see clearly the 16 star or Vergina Star.Located now in Louvre Museum


http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/9600/kraterverginasun6thcentlb3.jpg

From the late 17th century AD, and in particular the 18th century, classical Greek civilization began to attract the ever-growing interest, curiosity and imagination of western Europeans. One manifestation of this was the numerous “journeys of discovery� undertaken by various scholars to the soil of “rediscovered Hellas� itself, which was then still part of the Ottoman Empire. Two such individuals were the young architects James Stuart and Nicholas Revett, who in 1751 arrived in Attica and immediately set about accurately recording the architectural details of surviving buildings of classical Athens and its surroundings.

The four volume “Antiquities of Athens�, published in 1762, is the product of their research.

The diagrams on this and the following page are taken from reproductions by Stuart and Revett, and other antiquaries, of solar emblems found in the coffers (sunken ornamental ceiling panels) of various classical Greek temples of Attica.

Coffers from the Ionian stoa of the Propylaea (entrance to the Acropolis) 437 BC; the Sunburst also appeared in the coffers of the Parthenon itself

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/262/verginasunacropolispropis4.jpg

From the Theseion449 BC, coffers from the wing of the pronaos of the temple

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/9527/verginasuntheseion450bcyw4.jpg



The ancient Greeks use this symbol a lot.:)

[pankration]

Unbelievable research. Another nail in the coffin of FYROM revisionism.

[edessa]

just like it must burn them when they say MAKEDONIA i.e., a greek word, (however we are probably wrong and it derives from the slavic majka donja 1000 yrs before slavs existed) this must burn even harder when they hold their gay banned flags round them knowing it was used everywhere in ancient greece
i wuld luv 2 have an intelligent convo with a skop without the conversation resorting to 'fuk u u pushkar' when they have nothing else to say

[pankration]

Don't hold your breath waiting for an intelligent discussion.

[Christov]

If it is not too unpleasant, can somebody explain what “pushkar� means? Sorry, but here is the first place I’ve ever heard of it.

[edessa]

If it is not too unpleasant, can somebody explain what “pushkar� means? Sorry, but here is the first place I’ve ever heard of it.

it is a derogatory term skops give to slavophone greeks meaning 'traitors'

[Christov]

it is a derogatory term skops give to slavophone greeks meaning 'traitors'
Oh, I see. Thank you!

[Christov]

Hm, nevertheless it’s strange. This particular word comes from “pushka�, which means “rifle�, “gun�. The word for “traitor� is quite different – “predatel�, “izmennik�. Probably the term began to be used with this particular baggage under circumstances that I am not aware of.

[akritas]

both of you are out of the topic!!!

[Makedonas]

it means hired gun. " we sold ourselves" in other terms

[Christov]

All right, thank you! I think it is enough on that subject.

[Ptolemy]

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n15/new_jersey1900/goldmask.jpg

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n15/new_jersey1900/goldenmask.jpg

[paniskos]

in the macedonia highlands under the hellenic sky

[Amyntas]

i think the goat is the earlier symbol. Some historians (Malcolm Errington for example) believe that Aigai's name (today Vergina) derives from the greek word for goat ("áßãá" in modern greek)

[Ptolemy]

in earlier times there are other symbols than the 8 and 16 ray sun as well like the goat (see Aigai the capital before Pellas) and the lion

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/6374/liomczd8.jpg

the goat head (on the right) just rocks

http://www.s137585473.websitehome.co.uk/SNG/images/Images_SNG/03/Big/0300_1378.jpg

Alexander (the great one) himself seemed to be very fond of the horns as well (an ancient symbol of fertile and plenitude which btw is part of the goat head)

...I wonder if the sun is earlier than the goat....i d say the goat should be earlier since Karanos was lead to Aigai by a herd of goats sent by Zeus but on the other hand the other legend of the Temenidai establishing the MAcedon kingdom favors the choice of the sun...

Actually the two goat horned helmet was the characteristical symbol of Macedonian kings, with its most famous owner, being Alexander the Great.
Even Pyrrhus who admired Alexander and became for a while King of Macedon wore the distictive headdress. If you are aware of the event, when Philip V of Macedonia was slained, he was recognised by his distinctive two horned helmet from Aetolians.

Another unique symbol of Macedonian Kings is Kausia 'Diadematophoros'. This is shown in some coins of Philip II, from Amphipolis dating to 323-316 BC and noone except the king was allowed to wear it. A classic example is the one of Arrian [An. 7.22.4] where a sailor during his attempt to retrieve it, wore the royal kausia and was punished from Alexander and in the aftermath of Pyrrhus' death, Antigonos Gonatas honoured the dead Pyrrhus by covering his head with his own kausia.

[paniskos]

in the macedonia highlands under the hellenic sky

[Ptolemy]

Well all the Macedonian symbols are symbols of the royal house and the kings of Macedon as well including the sun with the rays

ptolemy do u happen to have any other example with mac kings, predating Alexander, wearing the horns...just out of curiosity
I mean the first macedonian king who shows up with the horns everywhere is Alexander himself (everyone of the Greek lads have seen it at least once even from just having a close look at the old 100 drachmas coin)
btw just recalled that I had come across an info once about the very early Macedonian leaders (none of the historical ones) wearing a goat skin for headcover (one can guess with the horns still attached)

if we consider that Karanos who established Aigai city and is related with the goats, means "leaders" then the whole thing makes sense I guess



I wouldnt say the sunburst is symbol of the macedonian royal house with certainty. This claim presupposes its use to be restricted only to Macedonian kings/royal family. However the available archaeological evidence shows it was a national symbol, especially during Hellenistic ages. It was certainly found in the royal tombs but has also been found in quite a number of other Macedonian tombs, so it seems to have been popular throughout ancient Macedonia. The tomb of Lyson and Kallikles isnt royal but the sunburst exists in wall-painting. It appears also in the Kinch tomb but oddly borne by the enemy.

I cant say for sure either for a Macedonian king before Alexander to wear the horned helmet. I have read somewhere about Perdiccas, the king of Macedon and brother of Philip to wear it in the battle against Bardylis where he was killed along with 4,000 Macedonians but i havent found any literary evidence to verify it. It shouldnt surprise me even if sometime we would find evidence that the early kings, far back as Perdiccas I, the alledged founder of the dynasty wore it. Even in Troyan war, kings like Agamemnon are attested to wear a helmet with two horns. (Iliad 11.41)

[Ptolemy]

Nymfaio Florina
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n15/new_jersey1900/nymfaioflorina.jpg

Oikia Papatheodorou
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n15/new_jersey1900/oikeapapatheodorou.jpg

Archontiko Hatzimihali-Kanatzouli
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n15/new_jersey1900/archontikochatzimihalikanatzoulisia.jpg

Archontiko Hatzimihali-Kanatzouli
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n15/new_jersey1900/archontikochatzimihalikanatzouli-1.jpg

Eratyra Kozani
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n15/new_jersey1900/eratyrakozani.jpg

Naos Agiou Georgiou Kozani
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n15/new_jersey1900/naosayiosgeorgioskozani.jpg

Oikia Nerantzopoulou Siatista
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n15/new_jersey1900/oikeanerantzopoulousiatista.jpg

Αριστοτέλειο Πανεπιστήμιο Θεσσαλονίκης

[akritas]

As I have already quoted Vergina Sun was in usage and from other Greek tribes like the Spartans and Athenians.

Americans in Nashville, Tennessee, build in 1897 a full-scale replica of Parthenon.



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/89/Parthenon.at.Nashville.Tenenssee.01.jpg


Look the below picture from the inner side ?

http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/4457/verginasunparthenonnashzv7.jpg


:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Americans knew since 19th century!!!!!

[Ptolemy]

One Skopjan idiot claimed elsewhere that the 16-rayed star had been found on tombs in Fyrom and gave me a link of their crap site

historyofmacedonia.org Macedoniansymbols MacedonianSun.html

Geez, these lobotomized morons use photos from symbols found in Vergina and the so-called tomb of FYROM is actually...the tomb of Lysson and Calicles in Greece.

The religious icons are pure crap. I have bought a religious icon myself one year and had the same symbol. Meteora is full of them and so is Patmos.

[Cadmus]

Hi!

Seeing the goat symbols it reminded me of a topic about the cult of the goat a mysterious cult even outdating the Dionysus one (with the Dionysus cult) having its cult of course pre dating the real Dionysus, since he was one of the newer gods) it seems to have ancient Thracian roots...

But this cult of the horned goat that's what its called seemed to have ancient Pelasgian roots, (Epirus area...)it seemed to be at least as old as the Dodona oak and myth...anyone more info on this horned goat cult?

[Cadmus]

Bump!

No one about the mysterious Dionysos linked cult of the horned goat??
It was supposed to be a Epiruvian cult/Illyrian...

Olvios???

[olvios]

Epirotes and illyrians dont mix they were distinct like night and day and only changed after few of the illyrian clans were "hellenized".Think more like Epirotes and Macedons as they represent the tribal greek structure and culture.

[Cadmus]

Hi!

But nothing about the horned goat cult?
I read on Wikipedia it was a ancient cult pre-dating the Dionysos one, but the artical did not mention whether it was Epirote or Illyrian...

[olvios]

Read "nonnus Dionysiaka" its Greek not illyrian.

[Cadmus]

Thanks i filed in a request for the Jstor article about Dionysos
in the work:Dionysos's Revenge and the Validation of the Hellenic World-View
Park McGinty
The Harvard Theological Review, Vol. 71, No. 1/2 (Jan. - Apr., 1978), pp. 77-94

Do you know a better source about the nonnus Dionysika?
I mean not a expensive book to buy but an easy accesible book on the internet perhaps or any files...

All the best..

[olvios]

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s130/olvios300/Maps%20and%20more/SUNGREEK.jpg?t=1180718325

[olvios]

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s130/olvios300/Maps%20and%20more/SpartaMac.jpg?t=1180699883

[olvios]

No ,but if i find one i ll tell you!

[Ptolemy]

'The Sack of Troy' from a Greek hydria, now in Naples Archaeological Museum, 480-475 BC)

It seems Achaean warriors used the same symbol in their armours, of course long ago before Macedonians adopted it from the rest of Greeks. We have already seen a couple of them carrrying the symbol but looking closely in this Greek Hydria, things are getting even clearer.

A general view of the Greek Hydria.
http://www.history-of-macedonia.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/normal_naples2422.jpg

2 closer looks.

http://www.history-of-macedonia.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/normal_sack_of_troy2.jpg

http://www.history-of-macedonia.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/normal_sack_of_troy.jpg

Now closer look to the greek warrriors.

http://www.history-of-macedonia.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/greek1.jpg

http://www.history-of-macedonia.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/greek2.jpg

http://www.history-of-macedonia.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/greek4.jpg

[Ptolemy]

Athena and Heracles in amphora of 510 BCE. The use of the sunburst is overwhelming.

http://www.history-of-macedonia.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/a8a5.jpg

Athena and Heracles from amphora of 480-470 BCE.

http://www.history-of-macedonia.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/heracles_athena_480_-470_BC.jpg

Heracles and Eyrymathian boar from Luvre. Notice Athena's shield!

http://www.history-of-macedonia.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10001/Hercules_Erymanthian_boar_Louvre.jpg

[Flipper]

I took this picture of Greek warriors participating in the Trojan war, while in NY. Those figures were found in Peloponessus dating back in the end of the 13th century. Am I blind or does the middle shield have the Vergina Sun? This is at a time where there was no Macedonia...

http://a665.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/90/l_99c67c6f8d415d464ba672fff98dcbb0.jpg

[akritas]

Flipper see the below link and tell me your opinion

http://www.macedoniaontheweb.com/forum/4929-post7.html

[Flipper]

I have seen that before Akritas. It is the same style of figures.

[akritas]

I have seen that before Akritas. It is the same style of figures.
what is your opinion as about the date. We have 500 years diffrence as about these figuirines.

[Flipper]

Are they the same?
The pic was taken by me in NY. All artifacts had a date. If they're not the same and the dates are correct then you have 2 key dates:

a) ~1200 something BC, same year where mycenean artifacts are found in Macedonia.
b) ~700 BC the same year when Caranos established the Kindom of Macedon.

[Flipper]

Ah, no..Yours is from the Sparta archeological museum, so we have similar figurines from different dates.

[wanted_gr]

egw mono iksera to astro tis berginas :S

[BigBlackBeast]

Some more Sunbursts here for the collection:

http://p071.ezboard.com/fbalkansfrm97.showMessageRange?topicID=668.topic&start=1&stop=20

Not sure if this is the official thread evidencing historic usage of the Sunburst.

[Andrew]

Bravo re Palikaria !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Perchaps we Greeks should change our Flag ...Star instead of the Cross in the corner !!
Our ancesters used ithe Star a lot and they waren't christians !!

Pali ....Δεν παίζεστε αλάνια !!!!!

[GEOROX]

Yiasas paidia. ZHTO H ELLAS on this glorious day!

I was wondering if any of you...Akritas, BigBlackBeast, etc. have specific links from museums or non-Greek websites or sources in which the 8-ray and 16-ray sunbursts are depicted on Greek vase paintings, mosaics, jewelry, etc. I have seen a plethora on this site, yet the Fyromian clowns do not trust Greesk sites.

I was also wondering if a book exists devoted to this specific subject.
Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Efharisto manges!

[olvios]

http://www.macedoniaontheweb.com/forum/general-greek-history/5566-ancient-greek-sun.html
http://www.macedoniaontheweb.com/forum/free-speech-macedonia-forum/593-vergina-sun-information-added-wiki.html

Check the above they have plenty

http://www.metmuseum.org/works_of_art/collection_database/greek_and_roman_art/Terracotta_krater/viewObject.aspx?&OID=130009382&PgSz=1

750–735 B.C.Zoom in and see

[GEOROX]

Efharisto Olvios.
Do you also know if there is a book dedicated to this subject?