Amyntas
04-15-2006, 09:10 AM
Geia sas Paidia,
after i did some small talk with BigTaki about how the german majority think about the whole macedonia issue he asked me to share this with you.
The Germans basicly do not understand the name dispute because of one simple thing. They have different names for Greek Makedones and the Skops and their country. This is part of the reason why the Germans have been quite stubborn for FYROM's right to self determination as well.
They call Greek Macedonians "Makedonen" or "Makedonier" and call the Greek Macedonia province "Makedonien".
The Skops on the otherhand are called "Mazedonier" and FYROM "Mazedonien".
This way of differing those two different people has a simple reason. On the one hand they think that the skops have the right to call them selves what ever they want. On the other hand they do not see any connection between the skops and the Ancient Macedonians and their descendents. So they tried to find names that underline that there is a difference. Since they know that Alexander the Great and his Kingdom was Greek they refer to ancient "Makedonien" and the ancient "Makedonen/Makedonier" as well as for for their Greek Descendents and the Land they live in. So in german:
Greek Macedonia (speaking either historically or about the modern Greek province) = Makedonien
Macedonians (plural) = Makedonen
Macedonian (masculine noun) = Makedonier
Macedonian (feminine noun) = Makedonierin
Macedonian (Adjective) = Makedonisch
However, since 1991 and the Skops independence the Germans and German historians have called the Skopjians 'Mazedonier' and FYROM, as a country, 'Mazedonien'. This is because the only connection the Germans could make up between the name Macedonia and the Skopjians are geographical and for reason of self-determination, not historical. So, as a way of getting around the fact that there was no historical connection because it would be encroaching on the Greek history of Macedonia they took the name of the Roman Province Macedonia, which German historians pronounced Mazedonia (Ma"ts"edonia). They gave FYROM the name Mazedonien and the collective noun for the people Mazedonier. So in german:
FYROM = Mazedonien
Skopjians (plural noun) = Mazedonier
Skopjian (masculine noun) = Mazedonier
Skopjian (feminine noun) = Mazedonierin
Skopjian (Adjective) = Mazedonisch
About Alexander the Great, the germans (i mean the simple minded ones who are not very much interested in history) mostly think of him as a Greek King, they dont even see a connection between the name Makedonia and Alexander because it's all Greek to them ;).
Another thing is that Most Germans dont even regard the skops as Bulgars but as Yugoslavs (like Croats, Bosnians ect.) and despite it being politically incorrect they often just refer to them as Jugoslawien. Having this slight difference in naming those two (as we all know) completly different things, they cannot understand the naming dispute and do supoort a recognition under the name "Mazedonien" not knowing that in other languages (english for example) it's simply Macedonia, and that this causes trouble. I hope i could give you an overview about the german perspective. If you have any questions on this ask them here, I ll answer them ;)
Ps. It has happened before that the Skopjians complain in Germany that they are not called Makedonien with a 'k'. If a propagandised Skopjian is speaking German he will most likely refer to himself as Makedonier, instead of Mazedonier.
after i did some small talk with BigTaki about how the german majority think about the whole macedonia issue he asked me to share this with you.
The Germans basicly do not understand the name dispute because of one simple thing. They have different names for Greek Makedones and the Skops and their country. This is part of the reason why the Germans have been quite stubborn for FYROM's right to self determination as well.
They call Greek Macedonians "Makedonen" or "Makedonier" and call the Greek Macedonia province "Makedonien".
The Skops on the otherhand are called "Mazedonier" and FYROM "Mazedonien".
This way of differing those two different people has a simple reason. On the one hand they think that the skops have the right to call them selves what ever they want. On the other hand they do not see any connection between the skops and the Ancient Macedonians and their descendents. So they tried to find names that underline that there is a difference. Since they know that Alexander the Great and his Kingdom was Greek they refer to ancient "Makedonien" and the ancient "Makedonen/Makedonier" as well as for for their Greek Descendents and the Land they live in. So in german:
Greek Macedonia (speaking either historically or about the modern Greek province) = Makedonien
Macedonians (plural) = Makedonen
Macedonian (masculine noun) = Makedonier
Macedonian (feminine noun) = Makedonierin
Macedonian (Adjective) = Makedonisch
However, since 1991 and the Skops independence the Germans and German historians have called the Skopjians 'Mazedonier' and FYROM, as a country, 'Mazedonien'. This is because the only connection the Germans could make up between the name Macedonia and the Skopjians are geographical and for reason of self-determination, not historical. So, as a way of getting around the fact that there was no historical connection because it would be encroaching on the Greek history of Macedonia they took the name of the Roman Province Macedonia, which German historians pronounced Mazedonia (Ma"ts"edonia). They gave FYROM the name Mazedonien and the collective noun for the people Mazedonier. So in german:
FYROM = Mazedonien
Skopjians (plural noun) = Mazedonier
Skopjian (masculine noun) = Mazedonier
Skopjian (feminine noun) = Mazedonierin
Skopjian (Adjective) = Mazedonisch
About Alexander the Great, the germans (i mean the simple minded ones who are not very much interested in history) mostly think of him as a Greek King, they dont even see a connection between the name Makedonia and Alexander because it's all Greek to them ;).
Another thing is that Most Germans dont even regard the skops as Bulgars but as Yugoslavs (like Croats, Bosnians ect.) and despite it being politically incorrect they often just refer to them as Jugoslawien. Having this slight difference in naming those two (as we all know) completly different things, they cannot understand the naming dispute and do supoort a recognition under the name "Mazedonien" not knowing that in other languages (english for example) it's simply Macedonia, and that this causes trouble. I hope i could give you an overview about the german perspective. If you have any questions on this ask them here, I ll answer them ;)
Ps. It has happened before that the Skopjians complain in Germany that they are not called Makedonien with a 'k'. If a propagandised Skopjian is speaking German he will most likely refer to himself as Makedonier, instead of Mazedonier.