Kosovo's future

[Draco]

Kosovo’s new government will most likely declare independence in May 2008, reads a report from the International Crisis Group, ICG, released on Thursday.

BalkanInsight.com - Kosovo Independence Expected in May (http://balkaninsight.com/en/main/news/6783/)
What do you think the results of that would be? Serb army invading Kosovo to occupy/liberate the Serb populated areas in north Kosovo and a new Kosovo War? Russian veto (ouch!) or something else?

[olvios]

Hopefully Serbs with Russian aid will invade to restore legality and crush the cancer of UCK terrorists and return the region to its normal state.The Crimes of the KLA: Who Will Pay? - by Stella L. Jatras : Antiwar.com (http://www.antiwar.com/article.php?articleid=1499)

Also destroying any and all Islamic buildings will be great to avenge the numerous christian temples demolished by the barbarous albanians.

[TirAlb]

Thank you very much for the beautiful article olvios!...i mean this one (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E0CE5DD1630F937A35750C0A9649C8B 63).

[masolord]

Thank you very much for the beautiful article olvios!...i mean this one (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E0CE5DD1630F937A35750C0A9649C8B 63).

very touching,i must admit.they shouldn't been shot like that.that is a coward act


my uncle fought in the 2001 macedonian conflict in tetovo.
he killed couple of uck terrorist.he was part of the sniper/ranger group that was specifically trained to take out uck terrorist.
i wanna follow him and become sniper just like him.:rolleyes:

[masolord]

What do you think the results of that would be? Serb army invading Kosovo to occupy/liberate the Serb populated areas in north Kosovo and a new Kosovo War? Russian veto (ouch!) or something else?

hopefully russia get involved this time if not Serbia are screwed big time.

[Paulos Melas]

The big question here is why it will not be a unilateral declaration of independence on behalf of Kosovar Albanians ?
For the last year the dynamics and rhtorics of kosovat leadership , supported by US and UK, was clearly indicating the creation of an independent kosovo no latter than the 10th of Dec 07.
By postponing the independence declaration for May 08 which in fact means ad calendas graecas, simply indicates that there will be a different arrangement for kosovo probably based on the HK model.
During the last days NATO decided to maintain a strong military presence in Kosovo to avoid turmoil and potential attrocities.
Do not be mistaken. The West shall not come in an open confrontation with Russia, her biggest supplier in Natural Gas, and a country legally posessing nuclear, chemical, biochemical and biological weapons with the right to use them as a permanent member of the security council.
Kosovo has turned a very sensitive matter for both Russia ans Serbia, and it is too small and too insignificant - no interesting commodities to exploit there- for the West to challenge Russia.
There are sensitive cultural and religious issues that US do not wish to disregard. The serbian proposed model of broad autonomy seems that it was quite appealing. It offers virtual independence but at the same time entertains the concerns of both Serbia and Russia and does not create a point of reference that would encourage several communities to seek independence by the means of arms.
I believe that eventually within the forecoming months we will see an HK type kosovo and a fast ascension of Serbia Albania and Montenegro to EU, followed probably by Croatia and Bosnia.
Keeping myself aligned with the purpose of this forum, FYROM however would be the only balkan state outside NATO and EU till important issues like the name dispute and the albanian rights of west FYROM to be properly adressed

[olvios]

in the uniforms of the Kosovan Liberation Army stood on either side

Side by Side in Life, and Now, in Death - New York Times (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E0CE5DD1630F937A35750C0A9649C8B 63)

WOW if they hadn't joined an Albanian terrorist organization they would now be alive!!!!!!

[TirAlb]

in the uniforms of the Kosovan Liberation Army stood on either side

Side by Side in Life, and Now, in Death - New York Times (http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E0CE5DD1630F937A35750C0A9649C8B 63)

WOW if they hadn't joined an Albanian terrorist organization they would now be alive!!!!!!

They were killed when the war was already finished.

[olvios]

Terrorists have to pay for their crimes and they did.Long live justice and the war on terror!!

[TirAlb]

Terrorists have to pay for their crimes and they did.Long live justice and the war on terror!!


yeah yeah...:dry:

[olvios]

The war is over as you say Tiralb but the war on terror never ends.This is what your patron Mr Bush said.And how right he was.

[TirAlb]

The war is over as you say Tiralb but the war on terror never ends.This is what your patron Mr Bush said.And how right he was.


Of course he was right,and albanians are supporting him in this war for freedom and democracy against terrorist states.

[olvios]

The Crimes of the KLA: Who Will Pay? - by Stella L. Jatras : Antiwar.com (http://www.antiwar.com/article.php?articleid=1499)

The Crimes of the KLA: Who Will Pay?

The KLA is a terrorist group and it may change its name to UCK_UCT or whatever.......Terrorists

[TirAlb]

The Crimes of the KLA: Who Will Pay? - by Stella L. Jatras : Antiwar.com (http://www.antiwar.com/article.php?articleid=1499)

The Crimes of the KLA: Who Will Pay?

The KLA is a terrorist group and it may change its name to UCK_UCT or whatever.......Terrorists


KLA was the kosovar liberation and now defensive army,how it is considered by serbs and serbophiles is not important.

[olvios]

The Crimes of the KLA: Who Will Pay?


Of the war against terrorism, President Bush says, "You're either with us or against us."

A New York Times article of 4 March by Joyce Walder, titled, "Side by Side in Life, and Now, in Death," sympathetically chronicles the deaths of three Albanian-American brothers who went together to Kosovo to fight and die along side the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA).

No one should be insensitive to the great loss and the tragedy that has befallen the Bytyqi family. The loss of one's sons deeply affects every family, regardless of ethnicity. Throughout the conflict in Kosovo, unfortunately, Americans of Albanian descent constantly watched the tragedy unfold before their eyes as portrayed by an anti-Serb, pro-Albanian media and leaders bent on stirring up ethnic hatred. Seeing the long lines of refugees seeking to escape the carnage and hearing exaggerated reports of unspeakable atrocities, who would not be moved or encouraged to join up with their fellow Albanians in what they perceived to be a righteous jihad? The Bytyqi brothers probably never saw or wouldn't believe anything contrary to what they were told, such as a UPI article of 29 June 1999, titled "Internal refugee numbers overestimated," which reported, "As an international peacekeeping force moves into Kosovo, they are not finding the large numbers of internally displaced people anticipated, based on estimates from the United Nations, according to Lt. Gen. Mike McDuffie, the Joint Staff s director of logistics. We planned for what we thought was a potential disaster...and we just haven't found it, McDuffie said. KFOR was expecting to find about half a million people displaced from their homes. Instead, peacekeepers have found only small pockets of people as refugees from outside and inside the province surge back home." Furthermore, Jonathan Steele reported in the Guardian of 30 June 1999, that one ethnic Albanian professional "disclosed that it was KLA advice, rather than Serbian deportations, which led some of the hundreds of thousands of Albanians to leave Kosovo."

Unfortunately, the Albanian-American brothers "righteous jihad" is one that further promotes bin Laden's war of terrorism against the American people. Sadly, they were pawns in that tragic game, victims of the unscrupulous lies and machinations of men like Congressman Eliot L. Engel of New York and William Walker, former U.S. Ambassador to El Salvador and former member of the Organization of Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE), who knew the facts but twisted and distorted them for their own purposes. It was William Walker who accompanied the bodies of the Bytyqi brothers back from Kosovo to New York.

On one of his first trips to Kosovo, Congressman Engel stood on the square of Pristina, the capital of Kosovo, and told ethnic Albanians that he wanted to return as its first U.S. Ambassador to an independent Kosova, (as opposed to the official Serbian name, Kosovo) in essence, fomenting anarchy and encouraging revolution against the legitimate government in Belgrade. Congressman Engel should be especially pleased to know that of the 40,000 Serbs who once lived in Pristina, fewer than 250, mostly elderly, are confined in two apartment complexes, too terrified to even go in search of food. It should also be noted that the Serbians, who were once the majority in Kosovo, their Jerusalem, have all but had their culture, society, language and religion eradicated by ethnic Albanians who gained their majority mostly by crossing illegally from Albanian into Kosovo, ably assisted by the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA), a flawed U.S. foreign policy and a willing media.

It was at the request of the KLA that Walker was asked to investigate the discovery of a number of Albanian bodies in the village of Racak, a KLA stronghold, after a battle had taken place between KLA and Serb forces. Before even reaching Racak, and before any evaluation or independent investigation could be made, Walker immediately pointed his crooked finger of guilt at the Serbs and declared the killings a "massacre." Primarily based on the Racak massacre, President Clinton ordered the bombing of Yugoslavia, a sovereign nation and a people who had not harmed one hair on the head of a single American. The truth eventually came out. The Italian newspaper, Il Manifesto headlined: "OSCE LIED ABOUT RACAK." Rome, April 09, 2000: " There was no massacre in Racak, says today the Italian daily Il Manifesto, citing the results of the inquiry recently launched by the German daily Berliner Zeitung. The evidence clearly shows what really happened: there was no mass murder in Racak. Those were probably the bodies of the KLA terrorists who died [in the battle] on January 15th. "

In her often moving article, Ms. Walder left out a few important facts regarding the KLA for whose cause the Bytyqi brothers died. In 1998, State Department officials listed the Kosovo Liberation Army as a terrorist organization. The KLA was labeled as the "Vietcong of the Balkans" by Mark Almond, Chairman of the British Helsinki Human Rights Group (BHHRG) in the weekly British Spectator of 3 April 1999. Marcia Christoff Kurop in The Wall Street Journal on 1 Nov. 2001, "Al Qaeda's Balkan Links," reported that "For the past 10 years, the most senior leaders of al Qaeda have visited the Balkans, including bin Laden himself on three occasions between 1994 and 1996." It should be noted that this WSJ European report did not appear in the WSJ national edition for American consumption. Chris Hedges described the KLA s founders as "diehard Marxist-Leninists as well as descendants of the fascist militias raised by the Italians in World War II," in a New York Times article of 28 March.

THE KLA'S HEROIN CONNECTIONS. HOW MUCH PROOF DO YOU NEED?

Jerry Seper of The Washington Times reported in 1999 that "some members of the Kosovo Liberation Army which has financed its war effort through the sale of heroin, were trained in terrorist camps run by international fugitive Osama bin Laden." Furthermore, The Centre for Peace in the Balkans reported Bin Laden's Balkan Connections and that "Osama bin Laden's activities in Albania are well known and documented. As a matter of fact at one point the presence of his network in that country was so powerful that US Defense Secretary William Cohen canceled a scheduled visit July 1999 for fear of being assassinated. Bin Laden's organization was one of several fundamentalist groups that had sent units to fight in Kosovo, the neighboring province of Serbia."

Christian Jennings of The Daily Telegraph reported on 19 Feb. 2002, "Taliban heroin profits arming Balkan rebels," that "Heroin from huge stockpiles in Afghanistan is beginning to pour into European capitals, with much of the profit being used to buy arms for Albanian rebels seeking to start a new round of conflict in the southern Balkans. Senior drug trade analysts from the United Nations Drug Control Program in Vienna and Western police officials say much of the heroin being sold in countries such as Austria, Germany and Switzerland is coming from stocks in Afghanistan, much of it controlled by al-Qaeda and Taliban fighters. European drug squad officers say Albanian and Kosovo Albanian dealers are ruthlessly trying to seize control of the European heroin market, worth up to $27 billion a year, and have taken over the trade in at least six European countries."

Over 80% of drugs going into Europe today originate from Kosovo. The Christian Science Monitor reported on Oct. 20, 1994: "Disrupted by the Yugoslav conflict, drug trafficking across the Balkans is making a comeback as Albanian mafia barons carve out a new smuggling route to Western Europe, bypassing the peninsula's war zones, according to United Nations and other narcotics experts." To document the increase in traffic through the Albanian Kosovar region The Monitor continued, "For example, just 14 pounds of hard drugs were seized by Hungarian police in 1990, but by August this year [1994] the figure had risen to 1,304 pounds."

WHO WILL PAY FOR THE CRIMES OF THE KLA?

In addition to drugs, the Kosovo Liberation army is engaging in sex slavery, prostitution, (Agence-France Presse (AFP), 9 August 2001) murders, and kidnappings. Yet, Senator Joseph Lieberman, another apologist for the KLA says, "The United States of America and the Kosovo Liberation Army stand for the same human values and the principles . . . Fighting for the KLA is fighting for human rights and American values." (Washington Post, Apr. 28, 1999). It makes one wonder what Senator Lieberman considers American values.

In her New York Times article Joyce Walder also failed to mention the rapes of Serbian nuns, (New York Post, 19 June 1999), the murder of priests, or the "granny killers," the KLA murder of elderly women. (The Washington Times, 13 Aug. 1999.) Other reports were of murder by drowning the women in bathtubs or by decapitation. Nor was there mention of the destruction of over 200 13th and 14th century churches and monasteries or "The mutilated bodies of 14 Serbian farmers who had been shot," as Chris Hedges reported in the New York Times of 25 July 1999. And the murders and destruction still continue unabated by the international community. Who will pay for the continuation of Hitler's final solution to exterminate Serbia's culture, society, language and religion in Kosovo by his World War II allies?

Former Canadian Ambassador to Yugoslavia, James Bissett, wrote in The National Post (Canada), 13 November 2001, "War on terrorism skipped the KLA," that "Kosovo has become exclusively an Albanian province with the exception of a few stalwart Serbians in the Mitrovica area who live surrounded by barbed wire and are threatened daily with murder and mayhem by their Albanian neighbours. The Balkans, since the end of the bombing, have been in constant turmoil caused by the KLA terrorist activities."

Americans have been warned that there are still many Al Qaeda "sleepers" i.e., "cells" in this country just waiting to commit another 9/11. How many of these sleepers have infiltrated the pro-KLA communities under the guise of being freedom fighters for "Kosova independence?" Dare we ask the question? Or is that racial profiling? Well known columnist and journalist, Bill Gertz of The Washington Times reported on 18 September 2001, "Hijackers connected to Albanian terrorist cell, CIA says." Gertz further stated, "Islamic radicals, including supporters of bin Laden, have been supporting Albanian rebels fighting in the region, including members of the Kosovo Liberation Army." AFP further reports on 7 March, "FBI director Robert Mueller today warned that al-Qaeda cells around the world, including in the United States, were planning new terror attacks on the United States – despite seeing their home base in Afghanistan routed....[Attorney General] Ashcroft warned Americans they probably wouldn't be able to lower their guard in their lifetimes."

To compare the deaths of three Albanian-American brothers who went to fight on foreign soil as warriors of Islam along side the Marxist, narco-terrorist Kosovo Liberation Army to America s "Fighting Sullivan brothers," as reported in the Wadler article, is an insult to the memory of those brave sailors who were fighting for our country. When Mr. Walker joined Representative Engel at the funeral, he stated that he "was not certain the brothers were getting the recognition they deserved." To that I certainly agree, but not in the sense Mr. Walker intended.

So what exactly is going on here? The connection between Osama bin Laden's KLA and Al Qaeda is indisputable; these are the same terrorists our nation is fighting against. President Bush's admonition should be directed to those who support the KLA, in particular of Mr. William Walker and Congressman Engel: "You're either with us or against us." Which is it?

[TirAlb]

olvios i bet you are one of those backing the revisionist stance of the holocaust taken by ahmedinejat?!

What happend in kosova is well known,and some trashy articles made by serbs or serbophiles will not change it.Kosova is going to be independent,thats all.

[olvios]

revisionist stance of the holocaust ???? The opposite Tiralb, you can read my posts as we discussed many things with Israeli forumites....You also don't know my personal history.And ahmadinejad is a very dangerous "character" to say the least.

And the article quotes US authorities themselves that identify and acknowledge that KLA is a terrorist organization.

[Paulos Melas]

There shall be no independence for kosovo.
If it was to be it should be declared on the 10th of Dec.
US and EU want to change the course of things apparently, and create probably something closer to HK model.
So do not argue on sth that it is lost

[TirAlb]

There shall be no independence for kosovo.
If it was to be it should be declared on the 10th of Dec.
US and EU want to change the course of things apparently, and create probably something closer to HK model.
So do not argue on sth that it is lost

10 december is just the borderline for the talks,and indepence will follow in few months!
Again with HK model,its old by now,it was just a serbian proposal immediately rejected.Unilateral proclamation and impementation of ahtisaris plan thats what will happen.

[Paulos Melas]

We shall see.
Nonetheless I believe the fact that there is no immediate declaration but simply the intension to proceed such within 6 months time it gives signals of another type of comprimise.
And I think that the HK model while openly rejected shall be the basic model for such comprimise.
This is what I believe at least.
Otherwise a unilateral declaration would have followed straight away.
Again time will tell of course.

[Draco]

Unilateral proclamation and impementation of ahtisaris plan thats what will happen.
Hehehehe... :lol: you forgot to mention the being excluded from UN, the embargo from Serbia, the resumed ethnic fighting, the unilateral secession (or more correctly: loyalty) of the north, just like when the Republic of Ireland declared independence and the northerners said "hey, we're not in on this!" and the list goes on... The future's to be really ugly and neither the Albanians nor the Serbs are going to be thrilled with it.

[TirAlb]

Hehehehe... :lol: you forgot to mention the being excluded from UN, the embargo from Serbia, the resumed ethnic fighting, the unilateral secession (or more correctly: loyalty) of the north, just like when the Republic of Ireland declared independence and the northerners said "hey, we're not in on this!" and the list goes on... The future's to be really ugly and neither the Albanians nor the Serbs are going to be thrilled with it.

All the things you wrote may happen in the future,but even the worse scenario would be better than returning under serbian rule!

[Morphesau]

but even the worse scenario would be better than returning under serbian rule!

When you fight for something, make sure it was once yours to begin with. Or else you face these consequences.

I fear for the Albs for they always have done the wrong things and for the wrong reasons, have had the wrong allies in the past.

Make no mistake Kosovo Albanians have turned Kosovo into the bastion of extreme Muslim radicals. There is no place for the E.U for states like that.

I fear their own actions being the Albs will be their down fall.

[TirAlb]

When you fight for something, make sure it was once yours to begin with. Or else you face these consequences.

I fear for the Albs for they always have done the wrong things and for the wrong reasons, have had the wrong allies in the past.

Make no mistake Kosovo Albanians have turned Kosovo into the bastion of extreme Muslim radicals. There is no place for the E.U for states like that.

I fear their own actions being the Albs will be their down fall.

Do not bother yourself fearing for albanians,after thousand of years we are still here and we will be in the future also
Muslim radicals???I suggest you to meet real people,kosovars,in real life instead of just baseing your suppositions on internet.

[Morphesau]

Muslim radicals???I suggest you to meet real people,kosovars,in real life instead of just baseing your suppositions on internet.

AM2-dFaphP8

vCAz6PW_h2k

The world does not need a state like this.

[Morphesau]

I suggest you to meet real people,kosovars,in real life instead of just baseing your suppositions on internet.

That's my advice to you on another topic earlier. Glad you took it. ;)

Meet real people and many Montenegro's see them selfs as Serb. Try it, meet new people face to face in the real world. :)

[olvios]

Such a state shouldn't exist and even now its controlled by Islam and Known criminal - terrorist organizations.Let's hope that another war on terror will begin like the one against Milosevich but now one against Albanians that have proven to be terrorists with Al Qaeda in spite of leadership changes.A war on Terror against true terrorists.The albanians.

The war on Terror never ends!

[TirAlb]

That's my advice to you on another topic earlier. Glad you took it. ;)

From what i see you dont practise what you preach,and differently from you i have meeted real montenegrinians,but i doubt you have ever at least seen a kosovar!

[TirAlb]

Such a state shouldn't exist and even now its controlled by Islam and Known criminal - terrorist organizations.Let's hope that another war on terror will begin like the one against Milosevich but now one against Albanians that have proven to be terrorists with Al Qaeda in spite of leadership changes.A war on Terror against true terrorists.The albanians.

The war on Terror never ends!

Im glad you agree that the war against milloshevic was a war against its terrorist state!

[olvios]

Im glad you agree that the war against milloshevic was a war against its terrorist state!
Against Bosnians yeah but against albanians he was right on.:)

[HellenicPride]

They dont have a right to Kosovo its part of Serbia.

[Paulos Melas]

By Neil MacDonald in Belgrade and James Blitz in London
(The Financial Times Ltd)
updated 2:41 p.m. ET Dec. 9, 2007
Kosovo's Albanian majority has begun a critical week in its relations with Serbia by insisting that it will not press ahead with a declaration of independence without co-ordinating the move with the European Union.

As EU foreign ministers prepare to meet in Brussels on Monday to begin planning their strategy after the failure of United Nations-*endorsed talks on a settlement, the Kosovar Albanian leadership is making clear that it is prepared to delay an independence declaration until at least March 2008.

Despite fears that failure to agree a negotiated settlement between Serbia and the Kosovo majority by Monday's deadline could lead to ethnic clashes in the region, Hashim Thaci, the former guerrilla leader who is widely expected to be Kosovo's future prime minister, has acknowledged that independence may have to wait.

Story continues below ↓
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Asked how he viewed the EU's role in co-ordinating Kosovo's future independence declaration, Mr Thaci told the Financial Times: "The EU is the key. We are for a co-ordinated declaration of independence. For us recognition is as important as the declaration."

He went on to acknowledge that Brussels would be the main source of badly needed aid for an independent Kosovo, and that a declaration of independence by parliament could be delayed until March.

Azem Vllasi, a senior Kosovar Albanian political adviser, also acknowledged the need to delay independence. "We don't have to hurry with the act immediately after December 10," he told the FT. "These steps must be in agreement with western countries, and all the signs from western countries are that independence is a thing we can make."

Despite these assurances, EU foreign ministers meet in Brussels amid considerable anxiety over whether Serbia and the Kosovar Albanians are near a new round of violence that would expose the limits of a common EU foreign policy in the Balkans.

In a sign of how precarious the situation in the region has become, General Sir Mike Jackson, the former UK army chief in Kosovo, said the situation in the province was "a mess" that threatened to spill over into ethnic violence again.

In an article in Britain's Sunday Telegraph, Sir Mike said Kosovo presented a diplomatic and military minefield in which all parties must "tread carefully".

A three-person troika - representing the EU, Russia and the US - will formally tell the UN today that the talks between Serbia and the Kosovar Albanians have failed. Deadlock will be reinforced at the UN next week when Russia, which is firmly allied with Belgrade, will call for negotiations to continue, while the US, UK and France will say they are now prepared to recognise independence for Kosovo.

At meetings of EU foreign ministers and heads of government this week, the critical challenge will be to set out a broad direction for Kosovo that unites the EU while also helping ensure stability in the region.

EU leaders are expected to declare at their summit on Friday that negotiations are over and that the future of both Serbia and Kosovo lies in the European Union.

They are also likely to confirm they are willing to dispatch police and justice missions and appoint a high representative to oversee Kosovo if asked by the Kosovo Albanian government and the UN secretary-general.

The bigger challenge for the EU is to get all 27 member states to back Kosovo's independence. Four or five EU members, notably Cyprus and Greece, have misgivings about recognising a unilateral declaration of independence by the Kosovo Albanians, partly out of fear of a precedent for ethnic or national groups at home.

As a result, EU leaders are likely to avoid making a commitment to the independence question this week, focusing on language they can agree on.

EU diplomats believe it is crucial that the Kosovar Albanians co-ordinate their move towards independence with Brussels if they are to avoid creating a damaging split within the EU.

Road ahead

Monday, December 10 The EU, Russia and the US report to the UN Security Council with the results of the 120-day talks they have chaired between Serbia and the Kosovo Albanians. The troika will report that attempts to negotiate a settlement have failed.

December 13-14 EU heads of government in Brussels will discuss the situation. The EU will, at the very least, reinforce its message that Kosovo must co-ordinate the timing of its declaration of independence with the US and EU.

December 19 The Security Council will debate the future of Kosovo. The US, UK and France are expected to indicate backing for a future declaration of independence. Russia will probably say it wants negotiations to continue.

2008 A declaration of independence by Kosovo is likely to come in the first months of the year.

(Copyright The Financial Times Ltd. All rights reserved.)

---------

Kosovars are backing off asking for EU support. Apparently they have realised that with only atlantic support they go nowhere.
It will be a great acheivement for EU to agree on the support of Kosovo independence particularly due to Greek and Spanish objections.
It will not happen and kosovo wouldn t be able to support a unilateral but isolated independence
Henceforth the kosovars apparently create the appropriate time frame for a comprimise.

[Paulos Melas]

It is in fact the first time that indirectly the kosovar leadership sets a prerequiste for their independence-that of the support of EU. It is obvious that if this support does not meet they will claim that although highly desirable the cost of independence would be a heavy burden for kosovo to bear on its own, and that they will follow real politics and take the best that they can : an HK type broad autonomy that will grant all the privileges of an independent state but always as a region of Serbia.
Those are all the signs so far at least

[Draco]

I think Kosovo's Albanian leadership is too nationalistic and doesn't care for the welfare of the Kosovans (Albanian and Serb alike). Will their unilaterally declared Islamic Republic of Kosovo ever join the EU? Or will it remain an impoverished hell hole whose inhabitants only want to leave (like e.g. northern Cyprus)?

[Paulos Melas]

Well this is the real dilema, is it not?
And furthermore Kosovo will most likely doom Albania and FYROM (because of Illirida issue) of joining EU. All three areas Kosovo, FYROM, and Kosovo shall constitute an extensive exclave area surrounded by europe but never part of it.

[Paulos Melas]

And Draco you forget: North Cyprus is supported by Turkey the second biggest country in Europe after Russia both in size, population, and military.
Who will support Kosovo?
Albania one of the poorest, smallest and most indifferent countries in Europe?
A country that became known in the world through the film "Wag the Dog"
as a typical example of a european Banana republic?
So Kosovo s future is even worse that occupied North Cyprus.
They will comprimise.
It would be foolish not to do so

[TirAlb]

I think Kosovo's Albanian leadership is too nationalistic and doesn't care for the welfare of the Kosovans (Albanian and Serb alike). Will their unilaterally declared Islamic Republic of Kosovo ever join the EU? Or will it remain an impoverished hell hole whose inhabitants only want to leave (like e.g. northern Cyprus)?

Whats that "islamic republic",personally im not able to understand these kind of definitions,because i like all albanians don't give a damn about religion,but maybe for people rised in countries without a clear separation state-church is hard to think about another country without a following religious adjective.
And its not about the Kosovar leadership,but are the people that will never accept another serbian return.Guys one way or another it will be independence even with only Albania recognizeing it.

[Draco]

Whats that "islamic republic",personally im not able to understand these kind of definitions,because i like all albanians don't give a damn about religion,but maybe for people rised in countries without a clear separation state-church is hard to think about another country without a following religious adjective.
And its not about the Kosovar leadership,but are the people that will never accept another serbian return.Guys one way or another it will be independence even with only Albania recognizeing it.
"Islamic Republic" is a joke, I was trying to draw parallels between independent Kosovo and other tin-pot banana republics like the Islamic Republic of Iran and the Islamic Republic of Pakistan (yes, those are those countries' official names).

By the way, if it's only Albania recognizing it, it's not much independence, is it?

[TirAlb]

"Islamic Republic" is a joke, I was trying to draw parallels between independent Kosovo and other tin-pot banana republics like the Islamic Republic of Iran and the Islamic Republic of Pakistan (yes, those are those countries' official names).

By the way, if it's only Albania recognizing it, it's not much independence, is it?

But Albania won't be alone,not this time!

[Draco]

But Albania won't be alone,not this time!
Which may impede their EU accession prospects.

[TirAlb]

BBC radio programe on the future of kosova (http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/programmes/analysis.shtml)

[Paulos Melas]

I think you are mistaken TirAlb about the religious issue.
The terrorist organisation UCK desegrated numerous christian churches and raped hundreds of innocent christian nuns in Kosovo, a course of action that would have never been undertaken by a christian state or christian nation but rather by an islamic nation which wouldn t care about conducting crimes against christianity and particularly Orthodoxy.
It is no coincidence that the West is very careful in challenging Orthodox Russia, that the islamist Albanians have so openly ignored, on the Kosovo issue and delayed -permenantly most likely- the independence of this ravaged serbian christian province.
So religion is important.

[Paulos Melas]

http://www.kosovo.net/news_pogrom.html

[Draco]

I wouldn't raise the issue of atrocities because it's the biggest can of worms of our time because during the war and after both sides have been utterly obnoxious.

I really am curious what is going to happen. It seems that Greece has been more flexible about Kosovo independence (Cyprus is still rigid) so it'll be interesting to see what'll happen. I thought Greece would oppose it so as to not annoy the Russians; that's one of the reasons why Cyprus is doing it, Russia has been very supportive of the Greek Cypriots so it'd be foolish for them to turn on Russia to side with the USA (who has never been supportive). On second thoughts though, what can Greece and Cyprus do about it? We're only small countries at the dark end of Europe: influence = zero.

The problem with Kosovo is that there is no stable situation. If independence is prevented, Kosovo'll explode. If independence is attained, Bosnia, Georgia, Moldova etc will explode.

I wonder what the Chinese position on Kosovo independence is (I've never seen any commentary on this). Considering China has separatist problems in Tibet, Xinjiang and Taiwan, I wouldn't expect them to be enthusiastically supporting Kosovo independence.

[TirAlb]

I think you are mistaken TirAlb about the religious issue.
The terrorist organisation UCK desegrated numerous christian churches and raped hundreds of innocent christian nuns in Kosovo, a course of action that would have never been undertaken by a christian state or christian nation but rather by an islamic nation which wouldn t care about conducting crimes against christianity and particularly Orthodoxy.
It is no coincidence that the West is very careful in challenging Orthodox Russia, that the islamist Albanians have so openly ignored, on the Kosovo issue and delayed -permenantly most likely- the independence of this ravaged serbian christian province.
So religion is important.

Uck was very well described by its own name,kosovo liberation army.Albanians fought for their families, their land and their flag of course,trying to portay them as some kind of muslim terrorist is just a big absence of respect for people that died for their country,however insignificant at all,since it comes from non albanians.
Religion is not important,are only serbs that insist on it,trying to take their typical mythical roles,and this time as "last defenders of christianity and europe".Churchs were burned as mosques were burned before,its not about religion but about ethnic hate!
its all about politic,for example look this church,serbs started building it in prishtina during nato bombin on serbia.I guess why,the same soldier that were ethnic cleansing the city by puting albanians on the trains directed to fyrom,were working on it.Maybe because of their great faith in god?!

http://www.mtcowgirl.us/images/Pix/Kos_PriSerbChurch.jpg

The fairy tale of the raped nuns or the that thing of the serbian "christian province" are just provocation,that do not deserve a comment.

link (http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,194119,00.html)

[Paulos Melas]

Kosovo will not explode Draco.
Greece and Cyprus do have a heavy influence in EU affairs, for balkan and turkish matters.
Greece and Cyprus shall never accept an independent Kosovo (due to the cypriot dispute as solutions that would allow parts of countries to become independent would encourage such a solution for North Cyprus) as well as Spain (due to their own Basque issue).
So EU shall not come forward united for Kosovo.
From the other side China would encourage a HK type solution as she targets to absorbe Taiwan as such.
Russia looks at the Albanians and see islamic terrorists legalised by the West like Taliban were once in Afganistan before reveal globally their true side ( with the barbaric attack agaist Pentagon and the WTC).
UCK is no different from the Talibans with the exception that the UCK terror and religious fanatism is not so far exported like the one of Talibans. And Talibans were initially supported by the West as a mean agaist Russia as UCK is supported today as a mean against Russia and Serbia.
But the essence of both groups is the same.
So Russia, China, Greece, Cyprus and Spain would ask for a moderate solution that would allow first the effective disarmament of this very dangerous terrorist islamic group UCK (thats why the West is enhancing their forces in Kosovo for not allowing further UCK attrocities against serbian monuments and the serbian people) and second for a broad autonomy -HK type resolution- that would allow the existence of a functionable and pacific Kosovo with no militias and always part of Serbia

[Morphesau]

The E.U can recognise all they want, what matters here is the Security Council Resolution 1244. All that is outside the UN Security Council is illegal.

[masolord]

link (http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,194119,00.html)[/QUOTE]


that is so sad.:cry:
why are people so cruel?? :angry:

[TirAlb]

The EU is expected to “acknowledge” Kosovo’s proclamation of independence, according to sources.

However, while the EU will acknowledge that Kosovo has proclaimed independence, it will allow every individual member-state to decide on its own whether to recognize Kosovo’s independence of not, sources from Brussels have told the Beta news agency.

Such a solution for the Kosovo status question was conceived based on the case of Montenegro, which proclaimed independence from Serbia in 2006.

However, officials from the EU Council of Ministers add that it is very important to see what happens within the United Nations Security Council, and that the EU is not close to such a solution as yet.

Besides Cyprus, which adamantly opposes Kosovo independence as a violation of the UN charter, Spain, Romania, Slovakia and Greece may also back Serbia at the EU Foreign Ministers’ summit on Monday.

Spanish Minister Miguel Angel Moratinos said that “a unilateral proclamation of independence is not positive for Spain, but it will wait to see what happens.”

He said that Madrid “respects international law and the unity of the EU,” but added that “violating laws has never done any good in history.”

But, if the EU does reach a united stance, the adopted decision would not include the word “independence”, rather each individual member-state would be allowed to recognize Kosovo’s independence at its own discretion.

The Slovenian presidency is expected to schedule an extraordinary meeting of the Council of Ministers in February in order for EU member-states to make their opinions known, with the expectation that “twenty or so countries will quickly recognize Kosovo.”

The United States will do so too, as will some Balkans neighbors and the majority of “Muslim countries.”

However, the whole process could take months, which is why it is important for the EU to begin its mission in Kosovo to maintain the “rule of law,” which would, in a timeframe of 90 to 120 days replace UNMIK, thus beginning limited implementation of Martti Ahtisaari’s internationally-supervised independence plan.

Sources said that while this was a probable scenario, there was a long road ahead because “finding a united stance is still required, which will have to be worked on since the situation is far from clear-cut.”

B92 (http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2007&mm=12&dd=12&nav_id=46115)

[Truth Bearer]

This is the Balkans it has never stoped the atrocities are across the board all of us have suffered and all of us are guilty of instilling that suffering.From the Croatians to the Serbs to the Albanians to us Greeks and the Turks it's a never ending cycle of extreme violence.

[Tsontos]

Greece sees linking Serbia's EU membership with Kosovo as erroneous

ATHENS, Dec. 22 (Xinhua) -- Greek Foreign Minister Dora Bakoyannis said on Saturday any attempt to link Serbia's European perspective with the developments in Kosovo would be erroneous and counter-productive.

On the European perspective of the Western Balkans, the minister said "this rapprochement must not be linked to issues other than the European prerequisites. Any attempt at linking Serbia's European perspective with the developments in Kosovo would be erroneous and counter-productive."

This position was endorsed by her Bulgarian and Romanian counterparts Ivaylo Kalfin and Adrian Cioroianu, respectively.

The three foreign ministers, who represent the NATO and EU member countries in Southeast Europe, met in Athens on Saturday and agreed to boost their cooperation in view of the critical developments in Kosovo and the difficult situation in Serbia, and also reaffirmed their devotion to the European perspective of the western Balkans, which was rejuvenated by the recent Greek initiative "5 proposals with a timetable."

To a question on whether this would eliminate an incentive to Serbia for finding a solution to the Kosovo issue, Bakoyannis replied: "We don't want to place Serbia before a dilemma. No one wishes to put forward the dilemma of the European perspective with Kosovo as the counterbalance."

She stressed, however, that the European perspective of the Balkan neighbors must be founded on firm foundations such as respect of International Law, the International Treaties, good neighbor relations, peaceful resolution of differences, and seeking mutually acceptable solutions to outstanding issues.

Regarding the future status of Kosovo, Bakoyannis said that "we must act with lucidity, without haste, because it is a complex and complicated problem, and we must give diplomacy the opportunity to achieve a viable solution that will contribute to regional stability."

In their joint communique, the three foreign ministers stress the need for the signing of an Association and Stability Pact with Serbia as soon as possible, and for the encouragement of the other countries of the region to also submit accession requests to the EU, while they also express the hope that the European Council (summit) of December 2008 will grant candidate status to every applicant.

On a regional level, they stressed the importance of cooperation in the framework of the Black Sea Cooperation Economic Cooperation and the new EU neighborhood in the Black Sea.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2007-12/23/content_7296570.htm

[Tsontos]

Neil Clark | December 24, 2007

POWERFUL Western nations make threats to Serbia. Serbia, backed by Russia, ignores the ultimatums. A war ensues. That was the scenario in the summer of 1914, when the world plunged into the war to end all wars. Nearly a century on, the situation is uncannily similar.

Despite Western threats for it to accept Kosovan independence, Belgrade is standing firm. Serbian armed forces are on standby to reclaim the province by force if necessary. Russia has promised Serbia its support.

If war does follow, then Serbia will no doubt be blamed by Western governments for not toeing the line. But it would be an unfair judgment.

The present crisis in Kosovo has been caused not so much by Serbian intransigence, but by the West's policy of intervention in the internal affairs of sovereign states, which, over the past decade has caused chaos, not only in the Balkans, but across the globe.

Ten years ago, Kosovo was at relative peace. Albanian demands for independence from Belgrade were being channeled through the peaceful Democratic League party of Ibrahim Rugova, while the small groups of Albanian paramilitaries that did exist were isolated and had little public support.

According to a report by Jane's intelligence agency in 1996, the Kosovo Liberation Army, the most extreme of Albanian paramilitary groups, does not take into consideration the political or economic importance of its victims, nor does it seem at all capable of hurting its enemy.

It has not come close to challenging the region's balance of military power. As late as November 1997, the KLA, officially classified by the US as a terrorist organisation, could, it has been estimated, call on the services of only 200 men.

Then, in a policy shift whose repercussions we are witnessing today, the West started to interfere big time. The US, Germany and Britain increasingly saw the KLA as a proxy force which could help them achieve their goal of destabilising and eventually removing from power the regime of Slobodan Milosevic, which showed no inclination to join Euro-Atlantic structures.

Over the following year, the KLA underwent a drastic makeover. The group was taken off the US State Department's list of terrorist organisations and, as with the Mujahideen in Afghanistan a decade or so earlier, became fully fledged freedom fighters.

Large-scale assistance was given to the KLA by Western security forces. Britain organised secret training camps in northern Albania. The German secret service provided uniforms, weapons and instructors.

The Sunday Times in Britain published a report stating that American intelligence agents admitted they helped to train the KLA before NATO's bombing of Yugoslavia. Meanwhile, Rugova's Democratic League, which supported negotiations with Belgrade, was given the cold shoulder.

When the KLA's campaign of violence, directed not only against Yugoslav state officials, Serb civilians and Albanian collaborators who did not support their extremist agenda, led to a military response from Belgrade, the British and Americans were ready to hand out the ultimatums.

During the 79-day NATO bombing of Yugoslavia that followed, the West made promises of independence to the KLA which, eight years on, are coming back to haunt them.

Recognising an independent Kosovo will push Serbia from the Western orbit as well as creating a real chance of war. And it will set a precedent: if the rights of self-determination for Kosovan Albanians are to be acknowledged, then what about the rights of self-determination for Serbs in Bosnia, who wish to join Serbia?

Doing a U-turn, and attempting to get independence postponed, runs the risk of violence from Kosovo's Albanian majority. It's an almighty mess, but one of the West's own making.

Had it not intervened in Yugoslav internal affairs 10 years ago, it is likely a peaceful compromise to the Kosovan problem would eventually have been found between the government in Belgrade and the Democratic League. Rugova's goal was independence for Kosovo from Serbia, but only with the agreement of all parties.

What is certain is that without Western patronage the KLA would never have grown to the force it eventually became.

By championing the most hardline force in Kosovo, the West not only helped precipitate war, but made the issue of Kosovo much harder to solve.

It is ironic that for supporters of liberal intervention, Western actions in Kosovo are still seen to have been a great success. It was at the height of the NATO bombing campaign against Yugoslavia in 1999 that the then British prime minister, Tony Blair, made his famous speech at Chicago in which he outlined his doctrine of the international community.

Blair argued that the principle of non-interference in the affairs of sovereign states - long considered an important principle of international order - should be subject to revision. "I say to you: never fall again for the doctrine of isolationism," Blair pleaded.

But after surveying the global debris of a decade of Western interference, from the Balkans to Afghanistan and Iraq, is it any wonder that isolationism and observing the principle of non-interference in the affairs of sovereign states again seems so appealing?

Neil Clark, a regular contributor to The Spectator and The Guardian in Britain, teaches international relations at Oxford Tutorial College.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22966948-7583,00.html

[Paulos Melas]

Kosovo is still kosovo and not kosova.
In Greece we have two sayings spot on for the kosovo ocassion:
a.Stin vrasi kollaei to sidero
b.Opou argei o pragmateutis skata stin pragmatia you
The first signifies that if it is something to be achieved it must be done straight away-in this case the correct moment was the 10th of Dec 2007 already passed.
The second saying signifies that when things are delayed in fact they never happen.
So kosovo is very unlike to be independent but rather remain as an autonomous part of Serbia.
I believe that a comprimise is already achieved and the whole delay is to present the already agreed solution at the proper time propably around march 08 i would say.
This is what things indicate at least

[Cadmus]

I believe that a comprimise is already achieved and the whole delay is to present the already agreed solution at the proper time propably around march 08 i would say.


Hi PAulos Melas!,

Do you believe that the UCK as most influential party of Kosovo will compromise with Serbia?

I first of all won't see an HK model solve the Kosovo problem at all in the near future..

Tsontos last post was right on the spot about the KLA's terrorist strategy , it was wrongly supported by the West and Nato, now the aftermath is unfolding itself..

However the situation can go every where from where it is now...only future will tell..but i fear the worse..

All the best..

[Paulos Melas]

Hi Cadmus and happy 2008.
I believe UCK and Serbia have reached some short of common ground, or at least they discuss intensively on a certain model, which should most likely quite similar to the HK-China model, as when this model was presented the whole course towards independence was delayed.
So I think there is something there and I cannot see an independent Kosovo but rather something very close to it but part of Serbia.
Otherwise I cannot understand the delay (the excuses about coortdnation with US and EU are at the least pathetic. If you are about to declare independence you do so and you do not delay further. So something is cooking overthere and as it seems it is not independence)