Are you in any way religious? [Archive]

Ehetlaios

11-29-2007, 12:30 AM

Was a christian in my childhood but never actually believed in the dogma...

I was lucky enough to have an aunt who gave me some books about the Hellenic mythology when I was 6 or 7, they influenced me pretty deep but I dropped everything of the religion thing when I became 10. Then at 16 I started reading Norse mythology, liked it and returned to the Hellenic one, with a more open mind.

I don't say I am a "pagan", but I believe in a primordial connection between the ancient gods and the humans.

I'd vote for number two...

PS: Den kratiosouna e? Eprepe na anoikseis thema sto Philosophy gia na parei empros... :p

Tsontos

11-29-2007, 12:36 AM

I don't say I am a "pagan", but I believe in a primordial connection between the ancient gods and the humans.

Explain what you mean here. Do you mean you believe in the "connection" between humans and what those ancient gods represented (sort of like what Nietzsche believed from what I remember) or do you actually believe in those gods existing in some metaphysical state?

I'd vote for number two...

So you believe some metaphysical being(s) exist?

PS: Den kratiosouna e? Eprepe na anoikseis thema sto Philosophy gia na parei empros..

And philosophy isnt even one of my main concerns personally. Where are all you philosophers who wanted this forum?

pankration

11-29-2007, 02:03 AM

Raised Greek Orthodox, married to a Catholic but probably a closet Buddhist. I have trouble with a singular "god" but believe in some sort of greater consciousness at a spiritual level but am still scientific enough to question what I just said. Paradoxical? None of us will know the answer until we've passed. But I hope that my beloved father and uncle who have gone still exist at some level. Weird answer to a strange question.

masolord

11-29-2007, 04:31 AM

Personally I consider myself agnostic to atheist. I believed in God firmly as a kid then sort of gradually stopped believing. What about you?

i don't believe in anything
no god for me after all i had to go through during my early childhood.
i still wear the orthodox cross but i rarely i got to church, once a year-for socialising not for praying .
i hate all religions.

Ehetlaios

11-29-2007, 06:50 AM

Explain what you mean here. Do you mean you believe in the "connection" between humans and what those ancient gods represented (sort of like what Nietzsche believed from what I remember) or do you actually believe in those gods existing in some metaphysical state?

Metaphysical state, no. Nor I am one of those who say they were aliens who came from "some galaxy far far away" and that Pegasus was actually a spaceship...

Let's just say that when man needed gods, he created them with himself as an example and not the opposite. That is why, in every culture, all the gods are the way the humans wanted them. The hebrews needed a god that could keep them firm, themselves constantly being under someone else's yoke. The Hellenes were always full of passion about everything in life, something they portrayed to their gods as well. If not, why is mischief so common among the gods? The norsemen, being always warlike, had so many gods of war, Odin, Tyr, Heimdall, Thor. While the slavs (Sventevith, Swarog, Veles) who were also warlike, had given to their gods some samanistic powers as well.

Each people had their own gods and it's not something to be ashamed of, on the contrary. They should be respected because they're the gods they initially wanted for themselves, not the gods that were forced on them.

Where are all you philosophers who wanted this forum?

Here and there.

Ehetlaios

11-29-2007, 06:51 AM

i don't believe in anything
no god for me after all i had to go through during my early childhood.
i still wear the orthodox cross but i rarely i got to church, once a year-for socialising not for praying .
i hate all religions.

No comment here. Typical skop.

Orphic_Hymn

11-29-2007, 07:43 AM

Metaphysical state, no. Nor I am one of those who say they were aliens who came from "some galaxy far far away" and that Pegasus was actually a spaceship...

Ela re.. no Keramudas, not even a bit of E.. :lol:

Lakonian

11-29-2007, 07:58 AM

Personally I consider myself agnostic to atheist. I believed in God firmly as a kid then sort of gradually stopped believing. What about you?

Agnostic...i have already covered this.

Lakonian

11-29-2007, 08:22 AM

Wheres all the philosophers??.Well the topic of religion was covered in an old post of mine...i dont know what else i could say about this topic....i believe the universe was created out of nothing, it has no begining and no end according to the laws of science....the basic assumption of science is scientific determinism, the laws of science determine the evolution of the universe given its state at one time...these laws may or may not have been decreed by god but he cannot intervine to break the laws or they will not be laws...that leaves god with the freedom to choose the initial state of the univerese but even here its seems there may be laws...so god will have no freedom at all.Do you follow?
That is why im agnostic....because the begining is unclear to me other than what science is revealing. What is important to me is purpose...we are lost without it, so the human conscious creates the omnipotence to anchor us, to make rational of how we carry out our lives and shrug at phenomena as if to say that is for GOD to know, and not us,...its a pity, for Solon's laws already gave us sanity, and Socrates gave us the will to question all....for the question is the foundation of truth.

olvios

11-29-2007, 08:22 AM

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s130/olvios300/Maps%20and%20more/quotes/Zhnonelaths.jpg

God is a living being, immortal ,logical perfect or in mental blissfullnes ,insusceptible to any evil ,foreseeing all in the cosmos and it is not anthropomorphic, it is the creator of all and father of all and part of him rules over everything, and under its many facets it is named by its powers. Dias as it sees all Zena as it is the reason that life exists Athena for its aetherial command, Hera in air and Hephastus in artificial fire and Poseidon in its liquid and Demeter in the earth.Similarly its other facets according to each ones familiarites the names were given.

Not a perfect translation , makes more sense in greek because of the etymology you see in every word but its a start.

TirAlb

11-29-2007, 09:54 AM

I voted for number 2,but i think i can define myself from agnostic the most of time to religious in certain occasions,like before and during a flight!So i choosed an half-measure answer.

So olvios you belive i Zeus?

olvios

11-29-2007, 10:12 AM

Not exactly but if you knew the language of the epirots & macedons which was Greek you could read from the original above like i can and understand the meaning.The translation in English gives part of the meaning.

Euklid

11-29-2007, 10:25 AM

I went for the second choice...btw sorry for not being around that much..but ypoxreoseis have kicked in and taken me for a ride.which is gonna be a long one...belief/faith/piste to whatever that may be is quintessential.

Cadmus

11-29-2007, 10:41 AM

I also support Olvio's idea of the duality of the gods and them being incorporated in a single religion(if that's what it says)

There was indeed a very nice topic about this i think it was posted by TB,it had some great discussions and theories which i really enjoyed to read..

Just a while ago i was asked about my religious believes by a Dutch christian, i gave him the answer i believed in Zeus /Dionysus/Hera etc all combined into one...and he gave me a weird look...people just don't understand that sort of thing outhere..

Orphic_Hymn

11-29-2007, 10:42 AM

Not a perfect translation , makes more sense in greek because of the etymology you see in every word but its a start.

Not that I find anything wrong with yours but here's one by Paul Halsall:

They also say that God is an animal immortal, rational, perfect, and intellectual in his happiness, unsusceptible of any kind of evil, having a foreknowledge of the world and of all that is in the world; however, that he has not the figure of a man; and that he is the creator of the universe, and as it were, the Father of all things in common, and that a portion of him pervades everything, which is called by different names, according to its powers; for they call him Dia as being the person (di hon) everything is, and Zêna, inasmuch as he is the cause of life, (tou Zêin), or because he pervades life. And Athêna, with reference to the extension of his dominant power over the aether (eis aithera). And Hêra, on account of his extension through the air (eis aera). And Hêphaistos, on account of his pervading fire, which is the chief instrument of art; and Poseidôn, as pervading moisture, and Dêmêtêr, as pervading the earth (Gê). And in the same way, regarding some other of his peculiar attributes, they have given him other names.

Ehetlaios

11-29-2007, 01:54 PM

Ela re.. no Keramudas, not even a bit of E.. :lol:

:rolleyes:

Βγαίνει ακόμα αυτός στην TV?

Orphic_Hymn

11-29-2007, 04:53 PM

Δεν εχω ιδεα

masolord

11-29-2007, 07:18 PM

No comment here. Typical skop.

and you are typical greek:smokin:

4runner

11-30-2007, 06:43 AM

Orthodox christian here.

Flipper

11-30-2007, 04:22 PM

I'm spiritual, having great respect to most religions. There's something to learn from all of them. I have to admit that the pythagoreans and foremost Platos beliefs fit into my image.

Tsontos

11-30-2007, 05:46 PM

According to the poll theres no fuly fledged atheists here. masolord didnt vote though I imagine.

slavicwolf

11-30-2007, 07:31 PM

eastern orthodox christian here we actually celebrate christmas on the 7th of january unlike someone else i know :)

Flipper

11-30-2007, 09:17 PM

eastern orthodox christian here we actually celebrate christmas on the 7th of january unlike someone else i know :)

In Greece there are people cellebrating on the 7th as well. It depends wheather you belong to the new or the old calendar. Officially it is the new one that counts.

Ehetlaios

11-30-2007, 11:49 PM

I didn't vote either, Voulgaroktone...

Victor

12-03-2007, 02:07 AM

eastern orthodox christian here we actually celebrate christmas on the 7th of january unlike someone else i know :)
MAkes no sense to me for a religious Dec 25 to match a civil Jan 7.I know communism ruined Russia changing this but I dont get why Serbia stayed in the dark ages.

Alita

12-28-2007, 03:03 AM

I have been a true believer since the age of 20 when God blew my world open and showed me how REAL He is.

I LOVE Greece with all my heart but it will never become my God.

Jesus saves. :)

Lakonian

12-28-2007, 07:36 AM

I have been a true believer since the age of 20 when God blew my world open and showed me how REAL He is.

I LOVE Greece with all my heart but it will never become my God.

Jesus saves. :)

Hehehe, sometimes such words do make me smile, its good to see it brings happiness to you Alita.

What is happiness to everyone?

You ascribe your faith to phenomenal interactions? Actualy saw things that could not be explained by the rational side of the brain?

What did you apply to come to the conclusion that your God made his presence felt? Mathematics, any scientific analyses? Logic?

I pose these questions without any attempt to offend you, we have had many conversations about this, it just fascinates me how strongly you believe.

McFee

12-28-2007, 11:43 PM

I believe in the One Triune God: the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, I believe in the One Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Faith, I believe in the remission of sins, the resurrection of the dead, and in life everlasting. Christian Orthodox, in other words.

Spartan

12-29-2007, 12:56 AM

Personally I consider myself more Pagan. I worship nature and everything nature can create and destroy. I suppose you can call me a Naturist. I believe this is why I enjoy the Olympian Gods. After all they do represent all aspects of Nature just with human form in order to better understand them. Nature to me is a life force in which all things exist. Many people easily forget that we are a natural part of this world and that we must find harmony within it and not destroy it. I think Nature needs to be respected more, after all, just look at all the natural disasters that have happened in recent years. We destroy what Mother Nature created in order to make money and then we complain when she destroys us. We need to learn to balance our modern world while preserving the natural barriers and wonders of the world.

If the natural barriers around Louisiana were not dredged in order to create new ports for ships to dock then the flooding that happened in New Orleans would not have occured. There are so many examples.

Anyways I loosely vote for #2 even though I don't believe nature is a metaphysical being('s) or an entity.

Teukros

12-29-2007, 04:53 PM

Lakonian

12-29-2007, 05:35 PM

I am a orthodox Christian but I like to discover more and more subjects of the main religion of Greece.Mostly,the Great role that played to secure our Greekness and the connection between that ancient Greek philosophy.I hate all that staff about jewism etc etc, which is the history of another nation.We'd better start finding this link to understand how Orthodoxy dominated and how it is linked with Greece.

It is obvious than that your faith is in vain...do not say my brother that you hold your faith with the Orthodoxy clergys, than say you seek to find out why we had sucha major shift and that you aknowledge that this religion is foreign not only to us now, but the anceints aswell.

Be a man and go out there and find your answers, what ever you do, do it with determination.

Dont be afraid to let go.

Ehetlaios

12-30-2007, 01:26 AM

We'd better start finding this link to understand how Orthodoxy dominated and how it is linked with Greece.

Just as everyone dominates over someone else.

A couple of torn necks, a few people killed etc etc

Teukros

12-30-2007, 08:26 AM

I don't think Orthodoxy was obliged to the local people.I believe it was accepted by them.

Lakonian

12-31-2007, 12:04 AM

I don't think Orthodoxy was obliged to the local people.I believe it was accepted by them.

You gotta be kidding right? Hit the books...make analyses.

Ehetlaios

12-31-2007, 05:14 AM

I don't think Orthodoxy was obliged to the local people.I believe it was accepted by them.

Find out what happened in 395 ACE.

PAO123

12-31-2007, 04:52 PM

Lakonian

12-31-2007, 08:07 PM

Regardless what you believe Laconian, whether you like it or not, the Greek Orthodox religion is a part of our Greek culture now and I don't see anything wrong with that. I am still very fascinated with ancient Greek history and at the same time I follow the Greek Orthodox church.

Like a give a shit that you follow something you know nothing of, you defend something that you dont even comprehend. You a typical little flag waiver mate. And you if you dont see anything wrong with that then do not concern yourself with ancient Greece....for if any of them where to meet you, youd be a barbarian as much as Persian...for thats where the root of your religion lies.

If you wanna have an educated discusson with me mate come with hypothesis, not your little hairy chest sticking out with 19 crt gold cross hanging from it.

As a matter of fact, i chal;lange any of you to come to me and tell me exactly how this christianity was absorbed by the Hellenics, or rather a knife point.

Proove to me how the christian faith has put Greece ina better position than it was before with the great thinkers.

And finaly, the purpose of this religion.......

4runner

12-31-2007, 11:02 PM

Lakonian

01-01-2008, 06:30 AM

Lakonian, you are free to disagree with Orthodox Christianity but please do so with some respect for those of us who love Christ and are striving for His kingdom. I personally do not see any profit in discussing my faith with someone who displays such obvious disdain for my beliefs. The tone of your posts has thus far been the complete antithesis of the virtues of honour and respect you presumably hoped to demonstrate in your signature.

Hoping you have a blessed new year.

Gee you have put me to shame....what to do...will you show me the way brethren? Open my eyes for me......show me this magical brick road to the kingdom......tell me theres ferry floss there.

You have agood year to mate, keep your head up, because if you keep down like where your ina church, you might miss the truth tha passes right by you...or you just might run into a tree.

Anyways....so much for debate.

You all know me in here, i direct no offense to anyone, i simply seek the truth as much as all of you, but people like this clown get to me.

And thank you for pointing out my quote, yes i like a spartan, like my grandfather and my grandfather before that will do what i think is right,...never thought speaking my mind would be taken as an attack.

Tsontos

01-01-2008, 07:09 AM

You all know me in here, i direct no offense to anyone, i simply seek the truth as much as all of you, but people like this clown get to me.

Where did 4runner insult you personally so that you thought you could say this?

Its not PAO123 or 4runner in this instance who've stifled debate but you Lakonian. What kind of way to debate is this with your "fellow Hellenes"?

Like a give a shit that you follow something you know nothing of

etc. etc.

Lakonian

01-01-2008, 07:19 AM

Where did 4runner insult you personally so that you thought you could say this?

Its not PAO123 or 4runner in this instance who've stifled debate but you Lakonian. What kind of way to debate is this with your "fellow Hellenes"?

etc. etc.

Dont send warnings about banning me mate, ban me if you need too. I simply posed a question, does it worry that my text sounds hard pressing...do what you gotta do. I clearly havent insulted anyone in regards to religion which they have judged on me.....i used the word clown....big deal/...its ok for people to pose on there signiture ronald mc donald as amascot of FYROm yet i cannot use the word clown......thats a bit politicaly incorect dont you think Tsontos...even coming from you?

Have good night

effie

01-01-2008, 07:46 AM

I need help here.

I have just read that the phrase "hope, faith and charity" was first said by Heraclitus and not St. Paul.

I have been trying to find the exact saying of Heraclitus but have been unsuccessful. Could someone help me, please!

Effie

effie

01-01-2008, 07:50 AM

MAkes no sense to me for a religious Dec 25 to match a civil Jan 7.I know communism ruined Russia changing this but I dont get why Serbia stayed in the dark ages.

Victor, Greece changed to the new calendar for political reasons. Personally dates don't matter to me. What does matter is that some Greek Orthodox that belong to the Old Calendar seem to act fanatically in some instances.

Each person is entitled to his or her opinion without other people interfering.

Effie

Christov

01-01-2008, 08:11 AM

Victor, Greece changed to the new calendar for political reasons. Personally dates don't matter to me. What does matter is that some Greek Orthodox that belong to the Old Calendar seem to act fanatically in some instances.

Each person is entitled to his or her opinion without other people interfering.

EffieGood start!

4runner

01-01-2008, 08:24 PM

show me this magical brick road to the kingdom......tell me theres ferry floss there.
Perish the thought.
There is no magical path, it is a road which requires much struggle and effort.

Lakonian

01-01-2008, 08:38 PM

Perish the thought.
There is no magical path, it is a road which requires much struggle and effort.

Cliche

danielmaco

01-02-2008, 04:53 AM

Christian till I die!!!
Also, shame on the Greek church for turning it's back on the Macedonian minority. Are we not Orthodox brothers?

4runner

01-02-2008, 05:12 AM

Christian till I die!!!
Also, shame on the Greek church for turning it's back on the Macedonian minority. Are we not Orthodox brothers?Why do you single out the Greeks? There isn't a single Orthodox Church who recognises the so called 'Macedonian Orthodox' Church. Leave that Communist creation and rejoin the Serbian or Bulgarian Church, and especially cease the propaganda your so called church continues to spread in violation of the interim agreement. Then we will welcome you back with open arms.

danielmaco

01-02-2008, 05:27 AM

Why do you single out the Greeks? There isn't a single Orthodox Church who recognises the so called 'Macedonian Orthodox' Church. Leave that Communist creation and rejoin the Serbian or Bulgarian Church, and especially cease the propaganda your so called church continues to spread in violation of the interim agreement. Then we will welcome you back with open arms.

Our church was up and running a long, long, long, long time ago. If my memory serves me correctly, then it was banned by some sultan in the 18th century. Anyway, I'm not worried by the fact that our church isn't recognised by the other churches because of political issues. Church and state should never mix. What I don't like is how the greek church did nothing to stop the atrocities that were being commited against the local Macedonian population by the state.

akritas

01-02-2008, 06:03 AM

. If my memory serves me correctly, then it was banned by some sultan in the 18th century.
Your memory is correct. Archbishopric of Prima Justiniana and all Bulgaria was suppressed by the Porte in 1767 in consequence of the intrigues of the Ecumenical Patriarchs. Later Sultan by a firman of 11 March, 1870, granted the Bulgarians an exarchate of their own, independent of the Greek patriarchate.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03046a.htm

Tsontos

01-02-2008, 06:20 AM

f my memory serves me correctly, then it was banned by some sultan in the 18th century.

:clap2::clap2:

danielmaco

01-02-2008, 06:34 AM

Why won't you guys let me reply in this topic?

akritas

01-02-2008, 06:44 AM

Why won't you guys let me reply in this topic?
Because has nothing to do the history of the FYROM church with the religion creed.
So if you want to tell us the history of your church do it in the specific thread (http://www.macedoniaontheweb.com/forum/slavic-history-slavic-migration/5028-brief-history-fyrom-orthodox-church-split-thread.html#post49222)