Alexander The Great Was...albanian!!!

[terastios]

Μy fellow Hellenes, According to some British press (Broad sheets), Alexander the Greatwas an Albanian!!! (if you think this thread belong to another category please fell free to move it).
Yeah! I have heard this story not exactly from the British press but from
some circles that have been active in Greece "to promote the friendship with
Albania" using as a link Arvanites.

These Arvanites live in several areas of Greece and are speaking a kind of
dialect which looks as an early Albanian language. Fullstop. The
representative of this circle (died last year) has been invited by BBC in
the past where he exposed his thesis while mainly at the same time he has
been active adding to the thick fog of lies about Serbs denouncing them as
torturers of the those "poor Kosovars" and much more. I happened to know him
personally and had consult him a few times some years ago.

His sources were rather limited and there was an immense efford to attribute
all Greek history to Albanians. Lately I learned that this is a very active
branch in Albania nowadays (do you see any reason? Call me Greater Albania
as used to be the plan of Holy Alliance at the time of Hapsburg and
Hoezollern) working on this "revision" of Greek history printing books and
giving lectures even in Greece. Concerning his sources no sound researcher
would accept them as they are distorted elements. Especially the fact that
he went to speak about it in London makes me believe that the above fellow
unfortunately has been working the as the fifth column.

He has been also praised though for his work but not his conclusions, since
he used some original methods of research. The main problem has been though
his sources or better their absence, since he has been streching them until
they reach the desired result. Mainly he used the above mentioned
"revisionist" material from Albanian sources.

Coming to the fact that Alexander was an Albanian I guess Albanians will
have to fight with Macedonians as both say the same;-). For the record I say
that the a much used reference we have is in Arrianos's "Alexandrou
Anavasis" where in a part it is written that "he was shouting to his soldier
in Makedonian". Also another fact is his mother's origin who was from the
tribe of Mollossoi.

At that period we don't have Albanians but Illyrians, Mollossoi were a Greek
tribe as they were speaking Greek and recognized as such by the other Greeks
participating in the Olympic games and as for Illyrians their state frontier
was close to Tirana, they were subdued to Alexander's father Phillipos B',
and we know from excavations also that they were using Greek money and their
cities had Greek names. After the death of Skeder-bei (Alexander bey) in
15th c. they were subdued to Turks were converted to Islam and had been
their mercenaries and the terror of Christian populations. During the WWII
they have been very active in the same kind of activities they excell, under
the support of the Germans. The initial plan of the Hapsburgs, which had
failed once more in WWI due to the Servian bravery, resurfaced.

Now what is this Makedonian language. For sure it is not the FYROMian
language as Slavs were not in the Balcans before the 7th c. A.D. Greek
language had (and still has dialects) that have the same core but sound very
different among them but to an honest linguist they are not. I am thinking
about the difference of accent among somebody living today in Dover and
somebody in Liverpool or in Scotland ;-). Becides that Makedonia is a
geographical name of the region named after its Greek inhabitants that is
Makedones as the written history from the classics can attest. Now
conserning the "revised" versions of history available, you, people in this
list you know very well where they come from.

Last but not least as for Macedonia (FYROM) is conserned as eloquently put
by "TiM" editor Bob Djurdevic in his web site http://www.truthinmedia.org/
is simple. No Soros = no Macedonia.

[akritas]

terastie is a known subject this claim.
http://www.muslimsonline.com/~albanian/macedonia.html


Unfortunately the slavs call themselves Macedonians (and many the Europeran Christian brothers accept it), while it is historically known that Albanians are the real Macedonians.


And this come from the argyment that Macedonians, Illyrians and Thracians come from the Pelasgians. or "pellazgeve". The word "pellazge" comes from the Albanian word "plajji" or in the modern Albanian "pleqe" which means "old people". This was a name that old Albanian race was called for its old origine in the European continent.:lol: :laugh:

Is like the FYROMIANS when said Makedonia (Macedonia and not Matsedonia) means mother-land.:wacko:

When I asked the IE root of the Makedonia still waiting answers from both of them.:)

[Hermes]

it's so strange that antic greeks hated so much Alexander the Great, not only those of Athens but even the greek mercenars in the Persian army.Why Alexander invaded Greece, his brothers and didnt made the same to the Illyrians, wasn't Illyria the step before west.it's strange but normal especially in antic history that the losers become part of the conquistador army.

[Orphic_Hymn]

it's so strange that antic greeks hated so much Alexander the Great, not only those of Athens but even the greek mercenars in the Persian army.

I assume you mean ancient, but where did this "hatred" you mention come from ?

As for mercenaries, thats an ill comparison.
Mercenaries faught strictly for money and not for their country's interests, some ideology or what they may or may not have considered proper. Their only interest was money.. If we were to take your example as accurate then we'd have to believe that the mercenaries employed by Xerxes hated all Hellenic city states and Dimaratus actually loathed Hellas.. or that in the Anabasis of Xenophon describes the Spartan's favor of Cyrus over Artaxerxes when they were hired by him in his attempt to gain the throne..

Money did and still does mean the world for some..

Why Alexander invaded Greece, his brothers and didnt made the same to the Illyrians, wasn't Illyria the step before west.it's strange but normal especially in antic history that the losers become part of the conquistador army.

What Illyrians?
The only Illyrians of some power were those of the kingdom of Bardylis but they had been already conquered by his father Philippos in 357 which is prior to his father's death.

[Spartan]

That is exactly what got me into the battle to defend Greek heritage and honor. I originally was doing research on Alexander and I came across an Alexander Q&A site where that "Theory" was being spread around. So, of course I had to start the defense. It was from there that I first learned of the Skops and their claims. From then on out I have kept the gloves on for close to 3 years now battling these neo-nationalist, "Theorists" and brainwashed propogandist!

[Hermes]

Alexander wasn't albanian,albanian is used by many to show a specific population.He wasnt even greek even Hellen.
That's a banal saying : F their mother , they will call u father ( in biologic and psicologic sense). Continue so..to defend the one u hated more, anyway remember what i said above.

[Spartan]

Alexander wasn't albanian,albanian is used by many to show a specific population.He wasnt even greek even Hellen.
That's a banal saying : F their mother , they will call u father ( in biologic and psicologic sense). Continue so..to defend the one u hated more, anyway remember what i said above.


So Hermes do you think Alexander was Greek or something else? I am having a hard time figuring out what you say. Please clarify for us!

[Flipper]

Man, I'm generally cool with Albanians but those nationalist scholars they have drive people nuts. I check out their forums and this "white power" thing is taking over some kids.

[Hermes]

Spartan, as i have said before, i'm not a historian or an expert, like too many others here.
I think we cant change anything saying whatever we want.We would only stress ourselves.If smone has a strong idea i think its the worse thing to disscus it here, bcz the others have a strong idea too.
That was a great Leader but 2300 years ago, think for a moment, he left nothing to share, and we are trying to share his name and identy, would he cared about it?
I'm Arberesh (Albanian as u say) and we here have left our country before 533 years(after turk invazion) and i feel proud of my roots, language, tradition,language and ancestors.
U ask me what Alex/Leka was? Well we must have present some points to have all clear.
We must know his language, traditions, blood , nation.
All we know 100 % , he was Macedonian, and macedonians were Pelasgians like Thracia, Illyria,, Dardania,Epirus, Troya, all Hellas, Asia minor, Dacia , Etruscia , South Italia and many other territorial and cultural names.
About language , here i see that is made a big mistake taking as a prove ofical post/leters of our VIPs here(like the letters of G.Kastrioti)That time(and more than) greek was like today English, or like mideval Latin in Europe.No one wrote in his own language, just all ,had no letters to write, no national culture about writing. Also as we know when sth was oficial it would be in an ''International'' language.Also dont forget what were those who wrote his history, it could be a great posibility to make your own an International Leader like Alex. and i think who wrote had and knew this posibility hadnt done the best for the true.
About traditions we know he had his own, its normal , cant pretend to be the same even in the same nation, but the way he judged the greek Filotta, his general, it s much diferent from greek one, he asked him : In which way would u like to be judged , macedonian or greek one?.\
Do we know what language did he spoke to his generals, soldiers or people, that a very diferent thing from an oficial letter/ i have heard he didnt spoke in greek to his macedonian generals, was it so diferent from greek? Do we have any prove of it?
About blood, we know Nobility,especially Prices had mixed blood.We know too that macedonian culture wasnt so great like Atika one, and with what happened in the other centuries(4-8th) i think if there was a macedonian nation , it would be very dificult for them to survive asimilation,(anyway this is a kind of teory)

Have present, that hundred years ago there were no streets, teknology, schools etc...and too many areas were like isolated by everything.Manytimes this helped to keep language and traditions.sometimes name of the country and nationality of the people there hadnt been the same.
I have heard about king Otton(1831~) that wanted to speak greek.His court members (beter to say members of Filiqi Eteria) learned him greek. When Oton went in the streets/markets/bazar/ spoke to his suddits but no one answered him. He become angry of that, he wanted to conversate with his suddits. U can help what language did the people spoke.
Also when Shatoborini(19th cent.) in his work '' Travel/voyeger to Palestina'' and ''Jeruzalem'' spoke about Athina , he called it ''a bad/dirty albanian village''
Also in a leter to his brother in Kostandinopoli, a Bizantyne pastor/priest sent in Atika, spoke with a bad heart about those barbars that gone all days in the fields and dont go in his churche,they spoke a barbar language too(this what about the 10th century, i dont remember the font)
I dont wanna try to give a name to this population ,but even if they were in minorance we cant pretend to know their nationality just by hearing the name of the province.
any way , everyone has his thoughts, and to answer u , i think Alex was Pelasgian.If it is a problem between u and me , we must first know, whose nation had more from these our ancestors? it would be a great discusion so let close it here.
I said my thoughts, didnt claim anything, u continue, sometimes someone can have the world just thinking about it in his mind.
Viva la peace, Viva l'identita Pelasgica,Viva la religione sacra, abasso gli religiosi orientali e fanatici.

[Hermes]

Spartan, as i have said before, i'm not a historian or an expert, like too many others here.
I think we cant change anything saying whatever we want.We would only stress ourselves.If smone has a strong idea i think its the worse thing to disscus it here, bcz the others have a strong idea too.
That was a great Leader but 2300 years ago, think for a moment, he left nothing to share, and we are trying to share his name and identy, would he cared about it?
I'm Arberesh (Albanian as u say) and we here have left our country before 533 years(after turk invazion) and i feel proud of my roots, language, tradition,language and ancestors.
U ask me what Alex/Leka was? Well we must have present some points to have all clear.
We must know his language, traditions, blood , nation.
All we know 100 % , he was Macedonian, and macedonians were Pelasgians like Thracia, Illyria,, Dardania,Epirus, Troya, all Hellas, Asia minor, Dacia , Etruscia , South Italia and many other territorial and cultural names.
About language , here i see that is made a big mistake taking as a prove ofical post/leters of our VIPs here(like the letters of G.Kastrioti)That time(and more than) greek was like today English, or like mideval Latin in Europe.No one wrote in his own language, just all ,had no letters to write, no national culture about writing. Also as we know when sth was oficial it would be in an ''International'' language.Also dont forget what were those who wrote his history, it could be a great posibility to make your own an International Leader like Alex. and i think who wrote had and knew this posibility hadnt done the best for the true.
About traditions we know he had his own, its normal , cant pretend to be the same even in the same nation, but the way he judged the greek Filotta, his general, it s much diferent from greek one, he asked him : In which way would u like to be judged , macedonian or greek one?.\
Do we know what language did he spoke to his generals, soldiers or people, that a very diferent thing from an oficial letter/ i have heard he didnt spoke in greek to his macedonian generals, was it so diferent from greek? Do we have any prove of it?
About blood, we know Nobility,especially Prices had mixed blood.We know too that macedonian culture wasnt so great like Atika one, and with what happened in the other centuries(4-8th) i think if there was a macedonian nation , it would be very dificult for them to survive asimilation,(anyway this is a kind of teory)

Have present, that hundred years ago there were no streets, teknology, schools etc...and too many areas were like isolated by everything.Manytimes this helped to keep language and traditions.sometimes name of the country and nationality of the people there hadnt been the same.
I have heard about king Otton(1831~) that wanted to speak greek.His court members (beter to say members of Filiqi Eteria) learned him greek. When Oton went in the streets/markets/bazar/ spoke to his suddits but no one answered him. He become angry of that, he wanted to conversate with his suddits. U can help what language did the people spoke.
Also when Shatoborini(19th cent.) in his work '' Travel/voyeger to Palestina'' and ''Jeruzalem'' spoke about Athina , he called it ''a bad/dirty albanian village''
Also in a leter to his brother in Kostandinopoli, a Bizantyne pastor/priest sent in Atika, spoke with a bad heart about those barbars that gone all days in the fields and dont go in his churche,they spoke a barbar language too(this what about the 10th century, i dont remember the font)
I dont wanna try to give a name to this population ,but even if they were in minorance we cant pretend to know their nationality just by hearing the name of the province.
any way , everyone has his thoughts, and to answer u , i think Alex was Pelasgian.If it is a problem between u and me , we must first know, whose nation had more from these our ancestors? it would be a great discusion so let close it here.
I said my thoughts, didnt claim anything, u continue, sometimes someone can have the world just thinking about it in his mind.
Viva la peace, Viva l'identita Pelasgica,Viva la religione sacra, abasso gli religiosi orientali e fanatici.

[Amarantos]

That time(and more than) greek was like today English, or like mideval Latin in Europe.No one wrote in his own language, just all ,had no letters to write, no national culture about writing. Also as we know when sth was oficial it would be in an ''International'' language.
One ,not two, only one inscription regarding ancient Macedonia from ancient Macedonians and written in any way, in any other language than Greek, is there in the world? NO! Did the Macedonians spread Greek culture everywhere they 've gone? YES!

As far as the rest is concerned....talking is cheap.


Viva la peace, Viva l'identita Pelasgica,Viva la religione sacra, abasso gli religiosi orientali e fanatici.

yeah,yeah W la figa too.Give me a break

[Tsontos]

Macedonians were Dorians you fool.

[Ptolemy]

All we know 100 % , he was Macedonian, and macedonians were Pelasgians like Thracia, Illyria,, Dardania,Epirus, Troya, all Hellas, Asia minor, Dacia , Etruscia , South Italia and many other territorial and cultural names.

Just when I think I've read the stupidest post ever, you carry on and post another somewhere else. It seems the historical community is totally unaware about Pelasgian origins of Macedonians since none of the best historians about ancient macedonian history claims so.

About language , here i see that is made a big mistake taking as a prove ofical post/leters of our VIPs here(like the letters of G.Kastrioti)That time(and more than) greek was like today English, or like mideval Latin in Europe.No one wrote in his own language, just all ,had no letters to write, no national culture about writing. Also as we know when sth was oficial it would be in an ''International'' language.Also dont forget what were those who wrote his history, it could be a great posibility to make your own an International Leader like Alex. and i think who wrote had and knew this posibility hadnt done the best for the true.

Ah yes..i wonder how many times more again the ignorant claims of Greek being the 'international language' of ancient time will appear. Sorry to break your little world. Greek became 'International language' after Alexander and his conquests, Not before. Alexander was the one who did it.

About traditions we know he had his own, its normal , cant pretend to be the same even in the same nation, but the way he judged the greek Filotta, his general, it s much diferent from greek one, he asked him : In which way would u like to be judged , macedonian or greek one?.

So now Philotas became.. Greek?? then I will have to change my earlier phrase from "ignorant claims" to "moronic claims".
Where exactly did Alexander told Philotas "In which way would u like to be judged , macedonian or greek one?". Seems everybody missed it except you.

Do we know what language did he spoke to his generals, soldiers or people, that a very diferent thing from an oficial letter/ i have heard he didnt spoke in greek to his macedonian generals, was it so diferent from greek? Do we have any prove of it?

I assume by 'greek' you mean Koine. Just for the sake of materiality, Spartans talked to each other in Doric 'phone' especially during military operations so that other Greeks wont understand them. It doesnt mean Spartans werent Greeks.


I have heard about king Otton(1831~) that wanted to speak greek.His court members (beter to say members of Filiqi Eteria) learned him greek. When Oton went in the streets/markets/bazar/ spoke to his suddits but no one answered him. He become angry of that, he wanted to conversate with his suddits. U can help what language did the people spoke.
Also when Shatoborini(19th cent.) in his work '' Travel/voyeger to Palestina'' and ''Jeruzalem'' spoke about Athina , he called it ''a bad/dirty albanian village''
Also in a leter to his brother in Kostandinopoli, a Bizantyne pastor/priest sent in Atika, spoke with a bad heart about those barbars that gone all days in the fields and dont go in his churche,they spoke a barbar language too(this what about the 10th century, i dont remember the font)

The very next time you will throw here such claims be ready to provide citations and links. Otherwise they will be deleted. I just googled the name you wrote Shatoborini and it brought...nothing. Arguments like "i have heard..." "a byzantine pastor without name said that" are equal to nothing is such discussions.

[Hermes]

Its my fault that i'm not so much interested about history, so i dont have desire to memorize the dates and the font of everything, its normal to every reader.

I see here many contradictions ,about spartans that didnt spoke greek , about the albanised arvanitis and so on....Guys can anyone exlpain me what do u mean for Greek and Hellines too. It would be helpful for me to understand u more.it could be more easy than, dont u think?

About the spread of the greek culture by Alex, its normal, he loved it so much,we all know that. Having present what alex wanted to do he had nothing beter than Hellines culture to give his World.Thats not a strong prove.

Voulgaroktonos , what were the dorians, and who said macedonians were dorians? Than, were did Dorians came from?

As Amarantos said , talking is cheap.

[Ptolemy]

Its my fault that i'm not so much interested about history, so i dont have desire to memorize the dates and the font of everything, its normal to every reader.

You have totally lost it. If you are 'not much interested about history' then dont have discussions about history, since you are obliged to provide sources for your claims. Obviously "memorizing" has nothing to do with the situation.

I see here many contradictions ,about spartans that didnt spoke greek , about the albanised arvanitis and so on....Guys can anyone exlpain me what do u mean for Greek and Hellines too. It would be helpful for me to understand u more.it could be more easy than, dont u think?

Do you have any comprehension problem or sth? Because it seems either you read sth and you havent got a clue what it talks about or you play the dummy here. Noone said "spartans didnt spoke Greek". A dialect or an accent can be extremely difficult for a non-speaker to understand it. A bright example is nowadays the accent people use in the isle of Lesbos. A native greek speaker can hardly understand them. Of course this is far away from "they dont speak greek".

About the spread of the greek culture by Alex, its normal, he loved it so much,we all know that. Having present what alex wanted to do he had nothing beter than Hellines culture to give his World.Thats not a strong prove.

Really genious??? do you know many conquerors in classical ages spreading the language and culture of "foreign" people to people they conguer?

Voulgaroktonos , what were the dorians, and who said macedonians were dorians? Than, were did Dorians came from?

Why dont you clear it up for us who Dorians were. I am dying to learn.

[Hermes]

Every conqueror in History had spread sth to those they conquer, its the most normal thing, even they had no idea that were doing that.
The filosofy of Alex is wellknown, he was the first to help the mixed marriages, and he ''ordered'' this to his soldiers, he did it even by hisself.Having present he loved greek culture(it was to be loved), what would expect from his about greek culture????
About Dorians, u must tell me, i am dying to learn, i just know for sure they came from north.
And i ask again what do u understand for Greek?very simply please.
I heared about Dorians,Akei,Eoli,Joni, and all these i know came in different times in Greece, oh my God, there must have been an antic Greece somewhere in north, have u find it????
I think, its a my opinion, Hellines culture was just a culture,too many dialect, populations, thats why we find their places sometimes called like HELLADA.If u get the real meaning of -ada.....
Than it was spread by Hellines,Alex,Romans and thnx to Bizant Empire, dont say this last loved Greece too much.
Homer spoke about city names as X-the pellasgic, Dodona the pellasgic, or the Pellasgic Zeus and so on,those has been used by hellines but Homer say they had been before used by Pelasgians.(kill the betrayer).And Kadmi came/returned from abroad to Tebe......i am too confuse, sorry.Can u explain me simply?I dont want to unpolite to speak in the air.Thnx
I will speak from now with ''i have heard'' to be more accepted.
I have heard that Illyrians have good conections with pelasgians.Albs claim they were Illyrian ancestors.If it is so having present this Pelasgians Godness names used by hellines and explained only by albanian, it could be a good prove for the pelasg-illyrian-alb conection.Hellines came from north too. Afroditi, Zeus, Athina,Poseidon,Mars, Demetra, Hera, Apollon, Hermes, Hade,Artemida,Ares...........hey guys half of them , just need to know what those represanted to be answered from a child which one has one from the names(alb-child, speaker i mean)
The others, someone that have a little idea of language and old anticity, would need a little more, its normal.
Anyway u keep claim with what u stole to the others.
(i have read that when Platon went in Egipt, some religious there when told him about Atlantide,told too, that he had no idea of the''holy''&nobil people before him....etc...etc...Who were Them?????????????????????????????Hellines, no they would say it, Platon was a hellines too.
I dont claim all that has been the great pelasgian culture in mediteraneo sea.
I just claim that those had a great culture and they gave so much to the antiquity we well know.Egiptian names of Godness and so on,Hitit people and to many others spoke a pelasgian dialect.What about Illyrians, u can ask???

Imagine a whole big country.A part of it is empty bcz people emigrated, others had been ocupied and assimilated, other mixed with other people and so on, but someone in mountains,that have no contact with others, kept its barbars tradition and things like that.All around is forigner after centuries,and they were so primitive, hadnt the great culture,even the leters(there were no schools at those times)but they keep the most important thing:The language.
The others can say what they want, came from here or from there, but cant argue about their language,its the most antic,and pure enough to be more pure than others language.The others cant accept it, bcz they think they are The Great People, with culture and no barbars.They can say what they want, and claim too, but the truth???That cant be so much coincidenses.Albanian language explain a lot, even what the others cant,bcz its the original and the most primitive.If it was from Caucasus would have its specific caucasus gramatic and others, but no one proved it.
I want to say more about other things , but i think this is enough for u to make full 3 pages here.
Anyway .......talking is cheap.

[Amarantos]

Hermes,a couple of friendly advices.
An other member has already told you to post arguments, not the usual "i have heard" stories that characterise each and every post you write.
If you want answers post short posts.This is something that will help you express yourself better,since -among all the things that you 've heard- it is difficult for someone to comprehend what you write and what you mean.In the "form" you post your messages ,they are completely useless.
You ask and ask about proofs.Have you made a round in the site.I believe you don't.Do it and you'll do all of us a favour -including yourself-.You'll find all the answers you search.Last but not least,cut the irony because it doesn't suit you ,for all the above reasons too.You are making nervous other members and this is not a nice thing.

[Flipper]

Hermes I will answer to you with a very simple test that might make you think criticaly next time.

Does this text below sound Greek or Albanian to you?

foti man ymme o aneres athanei, pepasthe ypo katagoron meo ou foida ego de eon oligio emeo aftio epelathoman tos pithanos elegont ki alathes ge os fepos fipeen oude en fefrikati

It is an example of early helladic language by Eduard Schwyzer, a german linguist. This is how people spoke during the 2nd millenia BC in the area of Greece. So, does it make any sense in Albanian? Yes or No? If yes, please try to translate some of it.

:rolleyes:

[Ptolemy]

My question:
do you know many conquerors in classical ages spreading the language and culture of "foreign" people to people they conguer?

Your answer:

Every conqueror in History had spread sth to those they conquer, its the most normal thing, even they had no idea that were doing that.

Are you always playing the dummy or are you just doing a special effort when i am around? Do you even comprehend what i asked you?