Americans and Macedonia

[Tsontos]

These are documents concerning Americans and Macedonia prior to their recognition in 2004. Any of such documents, either from the american media or official government releases supported the following historical truths:

The so-called "Macedonian Question", is in fact a great political and historical fraud that was deliberately fabricated by the Communists in 1944 in order to wrest Greek Macedonia from Greece and absorb it into the Communist bloc, thus breaking up the West's eastern flank and gaining control of the north Aegean seacoast.

At the same time, before 2004 they also supported Greece's position that Skopia should not be recognised under the name Macedonia.


Documents:

U.S STATE DEPARTMENT
Foreign Relations Vol. VIII
Washington D.C.
Circular Airgram
(868.014/26 Dec. 1944)

The Secretary of State to Certain Diplomatic and Consular Officers*

The following is for your information and general guidance, but not for any positive action at this time.

The Department has noted with considerable apprehension increasing propaganda rumors and semi-official statements in favor of an autonomous Macedonia, emanating principally from Bulgaria, but also from Yugoslav Partisan and other sources, with the implication that Greek territory would be included in the projected state. "This Government considers talk of Macedonian "nation", Macedonian "Fatherland", or Macedonia "national consiousness" to be unjustified demagoguery representing no ethnic nor political reality, and sees in its present revival a possible cloak for aggressive intentions against Greece".

The approved policy of this Government is to oppose any revival of the Macedonian issue as related to Greece. The Greek section of Macedonia is largery inhabited by Greeks, and the Greek people are almost unanimously opposed to the creation of a Macodonian state. Allegations of serious Greek participation in any such agitation can be assumed to be false. This Government would regard as responsible any Government or group of Governments tolerating or encouraging menacing or aggressive acts of "Macedonian Forces" against Greece.

The Department would appreciate any information pertiment to this subject which may come to your attention.





President George Bush acknowledged these sacrifices before the Greek Parliament in 1991, by stating that

"Greece single handedly put a stop to Soviet expansionism at that terrible time."




President Bill Clinton on October 2 1992, before the elections, confirming his predecessor's stance he stated:

"The United States position must be clear. If the southernmost former Yugoslav Republic wishes to receive American recognition, it must first accept the principles of the Helsinki Final Act, satisfy its neighbors and the world community that its intentions are peaceful and abide by the European Community's decision which rejects the use of the name Macedonia. A Clinton Administration will stand by these principles and ensure that Greece's legitimate concerns are met".



On June 19 1992, at a Managers Conference in Paris, Dr. Henry Kissinger made a statement about Greece's demand that Skopje should not be allowed to use the name "Macedonia".

During the questions time at the end of Henry Kissinger's presentation one of the questions was:

"What is your opinion for the problem which Greece have to accept the name Macedonia which the Scopia Government is trying to implement?"


Kissenger's reply was:

"Look, I believe that Greece is right to object and I agree with Athens. The reason is that I know History which is not the case with most of the others including most of the Government and Administration in Washington.
The strength of the Greek case is that of the History which I must say that Athens have not used so far with success."

Other questions followed.


------------------------------------------------------------------------


http://www.hri.org/Martis/contents/main1.html

[Tsontos]

"According to most reliable information, a secret meeting was held yesterday at Comi in southern bulgaria...to draw up plans for a general rising in Greek Macedonia, with the ultimate object of incorporating that region with Salonica in an automonous Macedonia under Yugoslav hegemony."

THE NEW YORK TIMES
August 19, 1946




"Though once the heart of the empire of Alexander the Great, (Macedonia) has been for centuries a geographical expression rather than a political entity, and is today inhabited by an inextricable medley of people, among whom the Serbs, now Yugoslavs, are certainly the least numerous. But a "Federal Macedonia" has been projected as an integral part of Tito's plan for a federated Balkans...taking Greek Macedonia for an outlet to the Aegean Sea through Salonica."

THE NEW YORK TIMES
July 10, 1946




"The possible creation of a Macedonian free state within Greece to amalgamate with Marshal Tito's Federated Macedonia State, with is capital in Skopje...would fulfill the Slavic objectives of re-uniting the...province of Macedonia under Slavic rule, giving access of the sea to Bulgaria and Yugoslavia."

C. L. Sulzberger
THE NEW YORK TIMES
July 26, 1946




"During the occupation...a combined effort was made to wrest Macedonia from Greece --- an effort that allegedly continues, although in altered form...
The main conspirational activity in Macedonia today appears to be directed from Skopje."


THE NEW YORK TIMES
July 16, 1946




"For three weeks the Partisan National Liberation Committee had been busy creating, on paper, the new Yugoslavia. Twice Tito had flown to Moscow, conferred with Stalin and the Peoples' Commissar for Foreign Affairs Vlacheslav M. Molotov...
The new power at once began to expand. Yugoslav Macedonians insisted that Yugoslavia's new Macedonian district should include not only Bulgarian Macedonia but Greek Macedonia."
TIME
December 4, 1944


http://www.hri.org/Martis/contents/doc3.html

[preston]

good work takoulara...just spare me with Kissinger's comments...I hate that prick no matter what he says in our support!!

[preston]

If it was not for 3 reasons, all due to our times necessities, they would have never got Bush’s recognition:
a) USA’s desperate need for allies in war against Iraq
b) USA’s desperate need for future EURO members allies
c) Our own stupidity

[Tsontos]

are they the only reasons? I think there must be more to it

[HellenicPride]

good work takoulara...just spare me with Kissinger's comments...I hate that prick no matter what he says in our support!!

Kissinger is a clown , Ill never forget what he said about the greeks........

Henry Kissinger: "The Greek people are anarchic and difficult to tame. For this reason we must strike deep into their cultural roots: Perhaps then we can force them to conform. I mean, of course, to strike at their language, their religion, their cultural and historical reserves, so that we can neutralize their ability to develop, to distinguish themselves, or to prevail; thereby removing them as an obstacle to our strategically vital plans in the Balkans, the Mediterranean, and the Middle East".

[Orphic_Hymn]

Yup Taki..
With the #1 reason being the 'Dick' Cheney related "Halliburton Energy" company...

Here's some 'food for the mind'...

In another topic I mentioned the AMBO (Albania-Macedonia-Bulgaria-Oil Corporation).. Once you start putting the pieces in place you actually see the whole issue for what it is. An issue that is actually real and not a sci-fi conspiracy theory..
Let me explain what I mean..
In the last decade we saw the following events that even though didn't seem related at first, obviously are...

*Reunification of Germany..
*US supports the formation and funding of KLA
*72 week of continuous bombing of Yugoslavia that leads to its separation..
(note that former US Energy Secretary Bill Richardson, was quoted saying during an interview that "this is an issue of America's energy security")
*Formation of the indepedant countries ...
*Czech Republic and Slovakia, join the UN

We know that Ukraine was independant since 91' and never had the best of relations with Russia as seen even in WW2..
So the whole idea of reaching the Caspian Oil resources that Zbigniew Brezinsky (former US national security advisor) had foreseen and written about before all this took place.. is real.
He actually supported that the US should do everything in its power to get Ukraine on its side.. (I recall reading a Guardian article that uncovered the US implication in the overthrow of Milosevic, in Georgia to elect Mikheil Saakashvili and in Ukraine to pressure them in to the EU)

But now that we reached the Oil sources, how do we (the US) exploit them ???
The best way to both exploit these sources but ALSO be able to keep a close eye and literally control the Balkans and actually enjoy a justified continuous presence in E.Europe ... is the Trans-Balkan pipeline.

Note that while Russia tries to avoid this solution and by doing so, the presence of the US in E.Europe.. The alternative option that Russia is trying to promote in its attempt to regain its previous power (as seen in the Russia-Ukraine incident) , is the Burgas-Alexandroupoli pipeline..

Will this one work ??
Lets just note that ALL European and US 'specialists' claim that Alexandroupoli's port 'isn't deep enough'.. and the EU is trying to pressure Hellas by continuously mentioning the probability of an oil spill (should this be considered a threat?) and the catastophic effect it will have on our tourism and thus our economy..

[HellenicPride]

Yup Taki..
With the #1 reason being the 'Dick' Cheney related "Halliburton Energy" company...

Here's some 'food for the mind'...

In another topic I mentioned the AMBO (Albania-Macedonia-Bulgaria-Oil Corporation).. Once you start putting the pieces in place you actually see the whole issue for what it is. An issue that is actually real and not a sci-fi conspiracy theory..
Let me explain what I mean..
In the last decade we saw the following events that even though didn't seem related at first, obviously are...

*Reunification of Germany..
*US supports the formation and funding of KLA
*72 week of continuous bombing of Yugoslavia that leads to its separation..
(note that former US Energy Secretary Bill Richardson, was quoted saying during an interview that "this is an issue of America's energy security")
*Formation of the indepedant countries ...
*Czech Republic and Slovakia, join the UN

We know that Ukraine was independant since 91' and never had the best of relations with Russia as seen even in WW2..
So the whole idea of reaching the Caspian Oil resources that Zbigniew Brezinsky (former US national security advisor) had foreseen and written about before all this took place.. is real.
He actually supported that the US should do everything in its power to get Ukraine on its side.. (I recall reading a Guardian article that uncovered the US implication in the overthrow of Milosevic, in Georgia to elect Mikheil Saakashvili and in Ukraine to pressure them in to the EU)

But now that we reached the Oil sources, how do we (the US) exploit them ???
The best way to both exploit these sources but ALSO be able to keep a close eye and literally control the Balkans and actually enjoy a justified continuous presence in E.Europe ... is the Trans-Balkan pipeline.

Note that while Russia tries to avoid this solution and by doing so, the presence of the US in E.Europe.. The alternative option that Russia is trying to promote in its attempt to regain its previous power (as seen in the Russia-Ukraine incident) , is the Burgas-Alexandroupoli pipeline..

Will this one work ??
Lets just note that ALL European and US 'specialists' claim that Alexandroupoli's port 'isn't deep enough'.. and the EU is trying to pressure Hellas by continuously mentioning the probability of an oil spill (should this be considered a threat?) and the catastophic effect it will have on our tourism and thus our economy..


Leave it Orphic for his great post which are untouchable in my book. Well done Orphic.

Very good points. I have read about that pipe line which you mentioned (Burgas-Alexandroupoli). Does that have any connection to the pipeline Greece was or is working on with some other countries?

[Orphic_Hymn]

The other pipeline I know of is the Thessaloniki-Okta (FYROM), but its actually a secondary pipeline
The last 2yrs we've managed to be almost autonomous since the 'Hellinic Petrelaia' (EKO) refineries of Thessaloniki, Eleusina, Aspropurgos and the 'Motor Oil' refinery in Korinthos manage to provide us some 410 billion barrels when our estimated need is some 420-425..

The Burgas-Alexandroupolis pipeline would be a huge economic resource, (if it ever works) since from what I read in some report they estimate an income of some 50-60 million $

[admin]

Excellent Post!!...

[PhiliptheUniterchaeronea]

Orphic you are very clever indeed.

[preston]

Orphic..u r an eye opener..goes to show you...it all comes down to the basic things that drive this world of ours...money!! (and in in some cases: sex and power eg Ristov Stefov)!
Thank you Orphic.

[Orphic_Hymn]

Thanks re paidia.. but its quite simple actually.. just Geopolitics..

Through it you can understand several events that take place, like why the sudden interest in Iran's nuclear power plants or why the huge support towards our eastern neighbors or should I say "koumparoi".... the Turks..

I'll just add that while we have a feeling of hatred towards the US.. Which history has proven it is justified no doubt, our major interest and well being is depended on our alliance with the US', providing that they prevail in this game of chess..

[Tsontos]

Kissinger is a clown , Ill never forget what he said about the greeks........

Henry Kissinger: "The Greek people are anarchic and difficult to tame. For this reason we must strike deep into their cultural roots: Perhaps then we can force them to conform. I mean, of course, to strike at their language, their religion, their cultural and historical reserves, so that we can neutralize their ability to develop, to distinguish themselves, or to prevail; thereby removing them as an obstacle to our strategically vital plans in the Balkans, the Mediterranean, and the Middle East".

When and why did kissinger say this?:mad:

you have a link bro?

[Orphic_Hymn]

It was recorded in the Οιkonomikos Taxidromos in the late 90s', I recall seeing a scanned page some time ago but will have to find it..
Here is one of several sources ..
www.grecoreport.com (http://www.grecoreport.com/kissinger_a_progreessive%20.htm)

[Tsontos]

Thanks Orphic. I will have a good read.

Anyway in the meantime here is another quote from an American.

"When the Turks and the Bulgarians left, Macedonia remained a purely Greek region"

Henry Morgenthau Serving in Greece between 1925 and 1926 as President of the Committee on Refugees for the Community of Nations; in his book 'I was sent to Athens' * note that there is absolutley no mention of any people of Macedonian ethnicity in the 1920's when surely if 2 million of these people supposedly existed before the rise of the Yugoslav communist party; they would be mentioned

[preston]

When and why did kissinger say this?:mad:

you have a link bro?
Kissinger said that in his latest book. In the chapter where he explained why CIA was implaying cou de dats dictactorships all over the planet.

[Tsontos]

Kissinger said that in his latest book. In the chapter where he explained why CIA was implaying cou de dats dictactorships all over the planet.

name of the book?

[Tsontos]

Orphic, do you think you could try and dig up that thing about Kissinger please bro?

[Tsontos]

This is a long read, but its very worth it

http://www.antiwar.com/deliso/?articleid=3973