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Lakonian
11-12-2007, 09:22 AM
Hello,

its been a while. Uhm, on my time off i have been doing alot of reading..and gardening in my new home with my heavenly wife. Being on holidays i have had a good chance to do abit more "the meaning of life" search.

I have read weather books the Bible and Hesiod to name a few. I still feel uncertain and realy deep about the point of existance and its birth.

I had a chance to speak to my wifes local priest ( the one who wed us 3 weeks ago) as i realy liked his character and his theological philosophy, i think its the manner that he speaks in that reels me in and grabs the attention of my ears. Anyways, i simply asked him of what he knew about the chaos without attaching theory behind it...he told me that this was the state of the world before God assembled everything....i paused and said so Chaos existed before God?

"No" he said, "its the way the universe was before God decided to put order into everything". I felt beaten at that point because i did not warm up to the convo..it was the spur of the moment.

I went home and did what i always do when there is nothing to do and i read books, a particular one which i felt was the best place to start. The Bible.

Genesis 1:2 poses not only a mystery to me, but a motive as to why the monotheistic religions try to put a lid in chaos.. Let us call the mystery: the case of the missing chaos. Historically, this verse virtually disappeared from theology by the fourth century, this is so evident because the chaos theory didnt spring up again about 100 years ago if im correct?(correct me please)

with its return though, i noticed in many of my books its realy agressive in explanation, and it real hits religion for a six ( a golfing term). Its excusable because it was hidden for such a long time, like it as if it was a crumb that was swept under the fundamental doctrine of religions. The church made sure of it as did many greedy leaders of civilisations that where so brain washed by religion.

Why am i questioning this, why is it so important? Because beginnings matter, and Genesis continues to materialize disproportionate effects. Not because it gives a pseudoscientific account of the origin of things, but because with an intuition only now achieved by science it poetically channels that "extreme sensi-tivity to initial conditions."

You see as i realy began to study and read the Genesis i began to see soemthing that i missed before, its as if its begging to reveal its influence which its root lies in the philosophy none other than the Hellenes wisdom.

Theologians keep declaring that this creation by the Word from absolute nothing is the evident meaning of the Bible. Yet there is no such biblical teaching not in Genesis, not elsewhere. At most, God "calls into being the things that are not" (Rom 4:17) which posits a strong sense of God as creator of newness (cf. Heb 11:3; 2 Macc 7:28; John 1:1 for the other quotes used to back up this). Biblical texts may ignore or dread the chaos, but they never contradict the chaotic initial conditions obtaining "when God created."

How can God create chaos, if creating is ordering? And why creation of heaven and earth land in the first verse, when they occur only on the second and third day, respectively? No wonder theology put the lid on it.

For me this is a secret lesson in hermeneutics, a new word i learnt which means the true meaning. If you actualy read the opening of Genesis just a bit differently, the entire biblical system can shift. And because the second verse of the Bible is all about a complex chaotic system "and the earth was tohuvabohu and darkness was on the face of tehom and ruach elohim was vibrating over the face of the waters" might this theory of initial conditions not have something to tell us about theological content as well? Translate tohuvabohu "without form and wild." Tehom means "deep," "ocean," and "chaos."( do wiki search) Its not rocket science guys, the Greeks gave truth to all and monotheists want to keep it to themselves. For good? i dont know, perhaps truth these days is impossible for anyone to realy accept...sometimes even for me. Which is why i always question. I still fail to see meaning though. But i am very confident in chaos...ist all around us....look at that weed grow amongst the frlowers, imagine the affect of your footstep among the ants micro world, destruction void and creation will always exists...whic is why our soul never dies and only transcendts. I now know that harmony can only be achieved in respective indivdual cases and beings. What is harmony to you can be chaos to the other. Eros and Psyche matter only attached by true goodness. Im tired guys....i can hear my wife calling. Chat soon.

Euklid
11-12-2007, 09:44 AM
No wonder theology put the lid on it.

Spot On, Lakonian.

Ehetlaios
11-12-2007, 11:18 AM
Welcome back.

Tha meineis?

Lakonian
11-12-2007, 09:52 PM
Welcome back.

Tha meineis?


Yeah im always here re, just abit more busy these days bro. Do my eyes decieve me? Where you banned again? What happened this time?

Ehetlaios
11-13-2007, 12:47 AM
Messed up with some moron...

Don't bother ;)

Lakonian
12-24-2007, 05:08 AM
I was reading on thermodynamics and its interesting that even here we can see that chaos better explains god itself.

Therme dynamis.....heat and power. Internal energy. This proves that chaos always existed and still does for it god was a single thermodynami he/it may eventually disorganize and deteriorate overtime if it is composed of a single energy source.

How do we come to this conclusion, hah, in thermodynamics there ofcourse the laws of science and philosophy.

First law of thermodynamics:In simplest terms, the first law states that the internal energy level of an isolated system is a constant. In the context of a non-isolated system, then, this law requires that when there is a change in the amount of energy from one equilibrium state to another, that change is equal to the heat transfer into the system minus the work done by the system. Energy in minus energy out equals change in energy level.

"Energy can be neither created nor destroyed"

Second law of thermodynamics:In a general sense, the second law says that temperature differences between systems in contact with each other tend to even out and that work can be obtained from these non-equilibrium differences, but that loss of heat occurs, in the form of entropy, when work is done. This law follows simply from statistics: if a physical system is given (is allowed to occupy) new energy states which are equivalent to the existing states (say, a gas is expanding into a larger volume), then the system will occupy "new" states on equal footing with the existing ("old") ones. This is the central postulate of statistical mechanics - that equivalent energy states are indistinguishable. Thus, as the number of energy states are increasing, the energy of the system will be spread among more and more states (which means that the entropy of the system will increase).

(laws were taken from wiki)

pankration
12-28-2007, 02:59 AM
It's late and I'm tired but this is so interesting. I'll have to investigate when I'm more awake.

Lakonian
12-28-2007, 07:39 AM
It is never to late to seek the truth that could ground the very purpose of your existance.....if you find anything further...please come and tell me.