Turkey, Iraq and Kurdish seperatists

[Tsontos]

BBC NEWS | Europe | Iraq warns Turkey against raids (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7046114.stm)


Iraq warns Turkey against raids

Turkish tanks head for the Iraqi border
Turkey has begun preparations for a cross-border operation

Military build up
Iraq has urged Turkey's government to be "wise and patient" after it said it would seek MPs' permission for military action against Kurdish rebels in Iraq.

Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri Maliki said he was prepared to conduct "urgent talks" to defuse the crisis and said a diplomatic solution had to be found.

Iraq signed a counter-terrorism pact with Turkey last month, but opposes any military incursion into its territory.

The US has also warned Ankara against ordering any incursions into Iraq.

"We all have an interest in a stable Iraq and a desire to see the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) brought to justice," White House National Security Council spokesman Gordon Johndroe said.

"But we urge the Turks to continue their discussions with us and the Iraqis and to show restraint from any potentially destabilising actions."

'Internal affairs'

Soon after the Turkish cabinet agreed to submit a motion to parliament seeking authorisation for military action, an Iraqi government spokesman called on Ankara to be "wise and patient" and not to enter Iraqi territory.


The Iraqi government calls on the Turkish government to pursue a diplomatic solution and not a military solution
Ali al-Dabbagh
Iraqi government spokesman

Profile: PKK rebel group

"The Iraqi government calls on the Turkish government to pursue a diplomatic solution and not a military solution to solve the [problem] of terrorist attacks which our dear neighbour Turkey has witnessed from the PKK," Ali al-Dabbagh said.

Earlier, Mr Maliki said he was prepared to conduct urgent talks with the Turkish government to "discuss and solve all outstanding problems and give guarantees that will govern relations between the two neighbouring nations".

"We are fully confident that our friends in the Turkish government are committed, just as it is our wish, to bolstering and developing our bilateral relations on the basis of mutual respect, non-intervention in the other's internal affairs and not allowing the harmful use of each other's territory," he said in a statement.

Ankara claims the PKK is a terrorist group that enjoys free movement in northern Iraq and blames it for the deaths of at least 15 Turkish soldiers in the past two weeks.

Cross-border raids

Deputy Prime Minister Cemil Cicek said the Turkish government hoped it would not be forced to resort to military action, even if its motion gained approval in parliament.

PKK members in northern Iraq (20 June 2007)
The PKK wants more autonomy in south-eastern Turkey

"We hope that there will be no reason to use the authorisation, we hope there will be no need for that," he said at a news conference.

Mr Cecik said that if approved, the measures would be valid for a year and would allow multiple cross-border operations.

He also stressed that Turkey would only target the PKK and had no intention of occupying Iraqi territory.

"We have always respected the sovereignty of Iraq, which is a friendly and brotherly country," he added.

The government plans to put the motion to a vote on Wednesday and Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan's AK Party, which has a majority, is expected to vote in favour.

[masolord]

BBC NEWS | Europe | Iraq warns Turkey against raids (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7046114.stm)


Iraq warns Turkey against raids

Turkish tanks head for the Iraqi border
Turkey has begun preparations for a cross-border operation

Military build up
Iraq has urged Turkey's government to be "wise and patient" after it said it would seek MPs' permission for military action against Kurdish rebels in Iraq.

Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri Maliki said he was prepared to conduct "urgent talks" to defuse the crisis and said a diplomatic solution had to be found.

Iraq signed a counter-terrorism pact with Turkey last month, but opposes any military incursion into its territory.

The US has also warned Ankara against ordering any incursions into Iraq.

"We all have an interest in a stable Iraq and a desire to see the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) brought to justice," White House National Security Council spokesman Gordon Johndroe said.

"But we urge the Turks to continue their discussions with us and the Iraqis and to show restraint from any potentially destabilising actions."

'Internal affairs'

Soon after the Turkish cabinet agreed to submit a motion to parliament seeking authorisation for military action, an Iraqi government spokesman called on Ankara to be "wise and patient" and not to enter Iraqi territory.


The Iraqi government calls on the Turkish government to pursue a diplomatic solution and not a military solution
Ali al-Dabbagh
Iraqi government spokesman

Profile: PKK rebel group

"The Iraqi government calls on the Turkish government to pursue a diplomatic solution and not a military solution to solve the [problem] of terrorist attacks which our dear neighbour Turkey has witnessed from the PKK," Ali al-Dabbagh said.

Earlier, Mr Maliki said he was prepared to conduct urgent talks with the Turkish government to "discuss and solve all outstanding problems and give guarantees that will govern relations between the two neighbouring nations".

"We are fully confident that our friends in the Turkish government are committed, just as it is our wish, to bolstering and developing our bilateral relations on the basis of mutual respect, non-intervention in the other's internal affairs and not allowing the harmful use of each other's territory," he said in a statement.

Ankara claims the PKK is a terrorist group that enjoys free movement in northern Iraq and blames it for the deaths of at least 15 Turkish soldiers in the past two weeks.

Cross-border raids

Deputy Prime Minister Cemil Cicek said the Turkish government hoped it would not be forced to resort to military action, even if its motion gained approval in parliament.

PKK members in northern Iraq (20 June 2007)
The PKK wants more autonomy in south-eastern Turkey

"We hope that there will be no reason to use the authorisation, we hope there will be no need for that," he said at a news conference.

Mr Cecik said that if approved, the measures would be valid for a year and would allow multiple cross-border operations.

He also stressed that Turkey would only target the PKK and had no intention of occupying Iraqi territory.

"We have always respected the sovereignty of Iraq, which is a friendly and brotherly country," he added.

The government plans to put the motion to a vote on Wednesday and Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan's AK Party, which has a majority, is expected to vote in favour.

i been closely watching this thing unfold , and i must say turks are pretty shit.i was regarding them as Balkan power, but they cant even defeat the poor equip Kurds?? what a disgrace, hopefully they can prove to me they are better than this in few days or weeks.i am giving them a month maximum to defend kurds, if not they are going to the last place in my Balkan power house list.

my personal Balkan power list
1) Serbia
2) Greece
3) turkey
4) Bulgaria
5) ROM
6) Albania
7) Montenegro

[Ehetlaios]

How come "ROM" isn't in the first place? Aren't you guys descendants of great warriors? :laugh:

[Truth Bearer]

Now come on Ehetlaios give the guy a break he admits he's of Slavic heritage nothing to do with the great warrior tribe of the Macedonians during antiquity.

[Makedonia25]

i been closely watching this thing unfold , and i must say turks are pretty shit.i was regarding them as Balkan power, but they cant even defeat the poor equip Kurds?? what a disgrace, hopefully they can prove to me they are better than this in few days or weeks.i am giving them a month maximum to defend kurds, if not they are going to the last place in my Balkan power house list.

my personal Balkan power list
1) Serbia
2) Greece
3) turkey
4) Bulgaria
5) ROM
6) Albania
7) Montenegro

If u are going to post a list.. At least make it realistic i.e.

1) Turkey
2) Greece
3) Serbia
4) Bulgaria
5) Albania
6) FYROM (sorry my mistake.. I just copied and pasted :))
7) Montenegro

[Truth Bearer]

Why ROM??It should be FYROM.

[masolord]

If u are going to post a list.. At least make it realistic i.e.

1) Turkey
2) Greece
3) Serbia
4) Bulgaria
5) Albania
6) ROM
7) Montenegro

do you honestly think turkey is stronger than Serbia and Greece??i am surprised you ranked them first, i think Serbia has better army than turkey.

[Truth Bearer]

You are dreaming kiddo.Turkey has the largets army in NATO outside of the U.S.

[masolord]

You are dreaming kiddo.Turkey has the largets army in NATO outside of the U.S.
then why they cant even beat the kurds??
plus it is quality not quantity when it comes to army size but we will see what they can do in the next couple of days.hopefully they can crush the Kurds.;)

[Truth Bearer]

Why crush the Kurds?/They want a homeland taht they deserve.The Turks have been trying to Turkanize them since 1925 and yet these proud people have been fighting the Turks since.Unlike you people that have never ever fought for Macedonia these proud people have.It's their right as 15 million Kurds live in South easterrn Turkey since antiquity.

[Astoria]

World Top 10 - Countries with Largest Armies


Country Army Personnel

China_______________1,600,000
India_______________1,100,000
North Korea___________950,000
South Korea___________560,000
Pakistan______________550,000
USA__________________477,800
Vietnam_______________412,000
Turkey________________402,000
Iraq__________________321,000
Russia________________321,000




mapsofworld.com/world-top-ten/world-top-ten-countries-with-largest-armies-map.html

[pankration]

World Top 10 - Countries with Largest Armies


Country Army Personnel

China_______________1,600,000
India_______________1,100,000
North Korea___________950,000
South Korea___________560,000
Pakistan______________550,000
USA__________________477,800
Vietnam_______________412,000
Turkey________________402,000
Iraq__________________321,000
Russia________________321,000




mapsofworld.com/world-top-ten/world-top-ten-countries-with-largest-armies-map.html

Size isn't everything. History has proven that many times. Kurds are tough, dedicated and want it more than the Turks. Why do you think Hussein gassed them? His army didn't have the skill or balls to fight the Kurds on their home territory so he resorted to the most cowardly way to fight. This morning I read that Turkey is deploying a squadron of fighter jets after the disaster they suffered a few days ago. Another chicken shit attack on a people who actually have been there longer than the Turks.

[Tsontos]

Greece has a slightly more technically advanced army than Turkey but has a massive man-power disadvantage. Both Greek and Turkish militaries are easily superior to Serbian and any other Balkan state.

[Tsontos]

Balkan per capita military expenditure - NationMaster - Expenditures > Dollar figure (per capita) (most recent) by country (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/mil_exp_dol_fig_percap-expenditures-dollar-figure-per-capita)

#1 Israel: $1,429.03 per person
#2 Singapore: $1,009.94 per person
#3 United States: $935.64 per person
#4 New Caledonia: $888.25 per person
#5 Brunei: $885.43 per person
#6 Kuwait: $842.17 per person
#7 Qatar: $837.73 per person
#8 Oman: $807.46 per person
#9 France: $766.62 per person
#10 Bahrain: $764.44 per person
#11 Saudi Arabia: $692.71 per person
#12 Norway: $677.77 per person
#13 United Arab Emirates: $624.27 per person
#14 Greece: $573.68 per person
#15 Australia: $566.95 per person
#16 United Kingdom: $524.48 per person
#17 Cyprus: $492.22 per person
#18 Sweden: $488.23 per person
#19 Germany: $470.70 per person
#20 Denmark: $454.71 per person
#21 Netherlands: $396.17 per person
#22 Italy: $347.66 per person
#23 Finland: $344.63 per person
#24 Switzerland: $340.23 per person
#25 Taiwan: $330.83 per person
#26 Luxembourg: $315.43 per person
#27 Japan: $310.16 per person
#28 Belgium: $296.89 per person
#29 Korea, South: $269.20 per person
#30 Canada: $239.63 per person
#31 Korea, North: $227.72 per person
#32 Libya: $225.46 per person
#33 Spain: $213.18 per person
#34 Slovenia: $183.99 per person
#35 Austria: $182.90 per person
#36 Ireland: $174.30 per person
#37 Seychelles: $157.66 per person
#38 Chile: $156.44 per person
#39 Malta: $150.55 per person
#40 New Zealand: $150.11 per person
#41 Iran: $142.61 per person
#42 Lebanon: $141.40 per person
#43 Jordan: $131.51 per person
#44 Botswana: $126.40 per person
#45 Portugal: $121.71 per person
#46 Estonia: $116.28 per person
#47 Turkey: $116.28 per person
#48 Czech Republic: $116.22 per person
#49 Croatia: $115.66 per person
#50 Argentina: $108.76 per person
#51 Hungary: $107.92 per person
#52 Maldives: $98.71 per person
#53 Macedonia, The Former Yugoslav Republic of: $97.80 per person
#54 Poland: $90.77 per person
#55 Trinidad and Tobago: $83.72 per person
#56 Colombia: $76.83 per person
#57 Slovakia: $74.76 per person
#58 Uruguay: $73.19 per person
#59 Brazil: $72.04 per person
#60 Malaysia: $70.55 per person
#61 Bahamas, The: $66.27 per person
#62 Lithuania: $64.16 per person
#63 Bermuda: $61.62 per person
#64 Serbia and Montenegro: $60.39 per person
#65 Gabon: $58.75 per person
#66 Algeria: $57.48 per person
#67 Equatorial Guinea: $56.71 per person
#68 Djibouti: $55.65 per person
#69 Ecuador: $53.88 per person
#70 Bosnia and Herzegovina: $52.89 per person
#71 Egypt: $52.13 per person
#72 Zimbabwe: $51.40 per person
#73 Iraq: $49.86 per person
#74 Bulgaria: $47.79 per person
#75 Syria: $46.51 per person
#76 Armenia: $45.26 per person
#77 Romania: $44.11 per person
#78 Fiji: $43.89 per person
#79 China: $42.80 per person
#80 Morocco: $42.78 per person
#81 Panama: $40.76 per person
#82 South Africa: $39.37 per person
#83 Latvia: $37.99 per person
#84 Mexico: $37.66 per person
#85 Venezuela: $36.81 per person
#86 Mali: $36.77 per person
#87 Namibia: $35.99 per person
#88 Sri Lanka: $35.83 per person
#89 Peru: $35.81 per person
#90 Tunisia: $35.34 per person
#91 Thailand: $27.65 per person
#92 Belize: $27.39 per person
#93 San Marino: $24.24 per person
#94 Yemen: $23.28 per person
#95 Cape Verde: $22.24 per person
#96 Eritrea: $20.50 per person
#97 Dominican Republic: $19.89 per person
#98 Paraguay: $19.69 per person
#99 Angola: $18.83 per person
#100 Pakistan: $18.25 per person
#101 Turkmenistan: $18.17 per person
#102 Swaziland: $17.57 per person
#103 Afghanistan: $17.55 per person
#104 Costa Rica: $17.18 per person
#105 Belarus: $17.10 per person
#106 Lesotho: $16.74 per person
#107 El Salvador: $16.70 per person
#108 Bolivia: $16.60 per person
#109 Guinea: $16.29 per person
#110 Albania: $15.86 per person
#111 Azerbaijan: $15.29 per person
#112 Kazakhstan: $14.61 per person
#113 Sudan: $14.46 per person
#114 Ukraine: $13.15 per person
#115 Mauritania: $12.02 per person
#116 Philippines: $11.33 per person
#117 Jamaica: $10.96 per person
#118 Ethiopia: $10.95 per person
#119 India: $10.66 per person
#120 Benin: $10.56 per person
#121 Guatemala: $9.99 per person
#122 Comoros: $8.94 per person
#123 Laos: $8.85 per person
#124 Cote d'Ivoire: $8.30 per person
#125 Mongolia: $8.28 per person
#126 Cambodia: $8.21 per person
#127 Mauritius: $7.89 per person
#128 Vietnam: $7.78 per person
#129 Uzbekistan: $7.45 per person
#130 Papua New Guinea: $7.25 per person
#131 Rwanda: $7.06 per person
#132 Cameroon: $6.98 per person
#133 Haiti: $6.16 per person
#134 Senegal: $5.86 per person
#135 Kenya: $5.47 per person
#136 Burundi: $5.40 per person
#137 Tajikistan: $4.94 per person
#138 Georgia: $4.92 per person
#139 Honduras: $4.88 per person
#140 Nicaragua: $4.76 per person
#141 Uganda: $4.57 per person
#142 Togo: $4.39 per person
#143 East Timor: $4.23 per person
#144 Chad: $4.22 per person
#145 Bhutan: $4.17 per person
#146 Indonesia: $4.13 per person
#147 Congo, Democratic Republic of the: $4.11 per person
#148 Guinea-Bissau: $3.96 per person
#149 Bangladesh: $3.87 per person
#150 Kyrgyzstan: $3.73 per person
#151 Burkina Faso: $3.40 per person
#152 Nigeria: $3.25 per person
#153 Central African Republic: $3.17 per person
#154 Zambia: $2.97 per person
#155 Madagascar: $2.90 per person
#156 Liberia: $2.69 per person
#157 Sao Tome and Principe: $2.13 per person
#158 Nepal: $2.07 per person
#159 Somalia: $1.99 per person
#160 Mozambique: $1.81 per person
#161 Sierra Leone: $1.75 per person
#162 Niger: $1.69 per person
#163 Ghana: $1.64 per person
#164 Moldova: $1.44 per person
#165 Malawi: $1.02 per person
#166 Burma: $0.83 per person
#167 Gambia, The: $0.75 per person
#168 Tanzania: $0.54 per person
#169 Iceland: $0.00 per person

[Truth Bearer]

How does Singapore get second position??They don't have an army do they??

[Truth Bearer]

And New Caledonia???What one pre world war one plane that they have??

[Demetrius Doukas]

If u are going to post a list.. At least make it realistic i.e.

1) Turkey
2) Greece
3) Serbia
4) Bulgaria
5) Albania
6) FYROM
7) Montenegro

Masolord I am with this opinion do you not agree? Yes, lets be REALISTIC, aman of lunaticism!

[nsminc]

Saw this article in the paper today:

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/908/art2qn1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Tsontos]

Eight Turkish soldiers released by Kurdish fighters have been returned to their army units, the Turkish General Staff announced.

BBC NEWS | Europe | PKK rebels release Turkish troops (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7077438.stm)

[Tsontos]

At least 12 Turkish soldiers have been killed following an ambush by Kurdish rebels near the Iraqi border - with 32 rebels also killed, officials say.

BBC NEWS | Europe | Dozens die in Turkey border clash (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7055004.stm)

Turkish troops have killed 15 suspected Kurdish rebels in the east of the country, reports say.

BBC NEWS | Europe | Turkish troops 'kill PKK rebels' (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7066309.stm)


The US Secretary of State, Condoleezza Rice, has said Turkey and the United States share a common enemy in the Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK).

BBC NEWS | Middle East | US declares PKK 'a common enemy' (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7074361.stm)

[Mygdonia]

World Top 10 - Countries with Largest Armies


Country Army Personnel

China_______________1,600,000
India_______________1,100,000
North Korea___________950,000
South Korea___________560,000
Pakistan______________550,000
USA__________________477,800
Vietnam_______________412,000
Turkey________________402,000
Iraq__________________321,000
Russia________________321,000




mapsofworld.com/world-top-ten/world-top-ten-countries-with-largest-armies-map.html

This is accurate from our neighbourhood.

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w162/sfinias/BALKANANALYSE.jpg

[masolord]

cool we are much better than albania.:clap2::clapping:

[PAO123]

The armies of Greece and Turkey seem to be preety even with each other. The only problem Greece really has when compared to Turkey is the big disadvantage in man power but as history has proven us many times, size doesn't mean everything. Anyways I think the Greek military is slightly more advance than the Turkish military.

[dragofly]

Very informative thread everybody. Thank you for letting the rest
of us know these facts.

[Ehetlaios]

cool we are much better than albania.:clap2::clapping:

You have 1500 infantry more...

45 tanks...

And some helicopters...

That's like, nothing...

[masolord]

You have 1500 infantry more...

45 tanks...

And some helicopters...

That's like, nothing...

for us that is a lot :)

[Mygdonia]

The main difference between the Hellenic and Turk army is that Greece needs to keep its eye on two main fronts. The North and the East.

The Turks are virtually surrounded and therefore they are more or less split all over anatolia.

Greece has the upper hand when confronting the Turks over the Aegean as the Turks need to watch over the Kurds, Syrians, Russians etc...therefore their unit allocation is more sparse whereas Greece is more compact.

[PAO123]

The Greek part of Thrace is very mountainouse while the Turkish part of Thrace is all flat land that leads all the way to Constantinople so a Turkish invasion of Greek Thrace would be futile.

[masolord]

The Greek part of Thrace is very mountainouse while the Turkish part of Thrace is all flat land that leads all the way to Constantinople so a Turkish invasion of Greek Thrace would be futile.

are you planning to get back Constantinople???:laugh: