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Truth Bearer
10-10-2007, 09:56 PM
House committee approves Armenian genocide resolution
Story Highlights
House panel passes resolution 27-21

Bush says passage of resolution would cause "great harm"

House resolution calls killing of Armenians during World War I "genocide"

Turkish president says passage of resolution would create a "backlash"

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A House committee Wednesday evening narrowly approved a resolution that labels the killings of Armenians in Turkey during World War I as "genocide."

The House Foreign Affairs Committee passed the measure 27-21, even though President Bush and key figures lobbied hard against it.

The president, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and Defense Secretary Robert Gates said passage of the resolution would hurt relations with an important U.S. ally.

Bush urged lawmakers to oppose the resolution, which he said would cause "great harm" to U.S. relations with Turkey, which he called a key ally in NATO and the "global war on terror."

"We all deeply regret the tragic suffering of the Armenian people that began in 1915. This resolution is not the right response to those historic mass killings," Bush said at the White House.

But House Democratic leaders said earlier if the Foreign Affairs Committee passed the resolution, they intended to bring it to the House floor.

The resolution's sponsor, Rep. Adam Schiff, D-California, said the measure already had 226 co-sponsors, more than enough votes to pass "and the most support an Armenian genocide resolution has ever received."

Earlier, Rice and Gates made their comments jointly before reporters at the White House. They said Gen. David Petraeus, the top U.S. military officer in Iraq; U.S. Ambassador to Iraq Ryan Crocker; and Adm. William Fallon, head of the U.S. Central Command, raised concerns about the resolution.

"We recognize the feelings of those who want to express their concern and their disdain for what happened many years ago," Rice said. "But the passage of this resolution at this time would, indeed, be very problematic for everything that we're trying to do in the Middle East because we are very dependent on a good Turkish strategic ally to help with our efforts." Watch why Rice and Gates oppose the resolution »

The nonbinding resolution refers to the "genocide" of Armenians in the early 20th century during the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, which preceded the creation of modern Turkey in 1923.

"In the case that Armenian allegations are accepted, there will be serious problems in the relations between the two countries," Turkish President Abdullah Gul said in a letter to Bush.

Nabi Sensoy, Turkey's ambassador to the United States, told CNN the resolution's passage would be a "very injurious move to the psyche of the Turkish people."

He predicted a "backlash" in the country, saying there would be setbacks on several fronts: Turkish-American relations, Turkish-Armenian relations and the normalization of relations between the nations of Turkey and Armenia.

Gates said good relations with Turkey are vital because 70 percent of the air cargo intended for U.S. forces in Iraq and 30 percent of the fuel consumed by those forces flies through Turkey.

U.S. commanders, Gates said, "believe clearly that access to airfields and roads and so on in Turkey would very much be put at risk if this resolution passes and the Turks react as strongly as we believe they will."

"Our heavy dependence on the Turks for access is really the reason the commanders raised this and why we're so concerned about the resolution," Gates said.

The resolution calls on the president "to ensure that the foreign policy of the United States reflects appropriate understanding and sensitivity concerning issues related to human rights, ethnic cleansing and genocide documented in the United States record relating to the Armenian genocide, and for other purposes."

A similar resolution passed the committee by a 40-7 vote two years ago, but it never reached the full House floor. House Republican leader John Boehner, noting the critical military and strategic alliance with Turkey, said bringing the resolution to the floor would be "totally irresponsible."

"Let the historians decide what happened 90 years ago," Boehner said in a written statement.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Majority Leader Steny Hoyer met with Turkish officials in Pelosi's office Wednesday morning. Hoyer said he and Pelosi informed the officials that they support the resolution.

Hoyer said he told officials that while he considers Turkey a strong ally, "this was about another government at another time."

"I believe that our government's position is clear -- that genocide was perpetrated against the Armenian people approximately 90 years ago and during the course of the First World War. And I believe that remembering that, noting that, is important so that we not paper over or allow the Ahmadinejads of the next decade or decades to deny a fact," Hoyer said.

Schiff, who represents a southern California district with many Armenian-Americans, refers to "the systematic and deliberate annihilation of 1,500,000 Armenians as genocide."

The term genocide is defined in dictionary.com as "the deliberate and systematic extermination of a national, racial, political, or cultural group."

But the description is hotly disputed in Turkey, the predominantly Muslim, but modern and secular, pro-Western ally of the United States.

Turks argue that all peoples -- Armenians and Turks -- suffered during the warfare. But Armenians maintain there was an organized genocide by the Ottoman Turkish authorities, and have been campaigning across the world for official recognition of the genocide.

The resolution arrives at a particularly sensitive juncture in U.S.-Turkish relations. The United States has urged Turkey not to send its troops over the border into northern Iraq to fight Kurdish separatist rebels, who have launched some cross-border attacks against Turkish targets.

Observers of U.S.-Turkish relations have argued the House resolution could make Turkey less inclined to use restraint in dealing with its longstanding problems with the Kurdistan Workers Party.

"The United States has a compelling historical and moral reason to recognize the Armenian genocide, which cost a million and a half people their lives," Schiff said. "But we also have a powerful contemporary reason as well. How can we take effective action against the genocide in Darfur if we lack the will to condemn genocide whenever and wherever it occurs?"

House committee approves Armenian genocide resolution - CNN.com (http://edition.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/10/10/us.turkey.armenians/index.html)

pankration
10-10-2007, 11:42 PM
Have American diplomats lost their minds? Using that logic, they should deny the Holocaust; after all there are more Arabs than Jews and the Arabs control the oil. Pathetic and even though I don't want to be a Bush basher they should be ashamed of themselves. And by the way, why isn't Greece included in that resolution? They lost hundreds of thousands too to the Turks through exile, executions, etc.
Christ, everything on this forum is pissing me off tonight.

Truth Bearer
10-11-2007, 06:03 PM
Turkey recalls ambassador to US
Ankara is recalling its ambassador to Washington for consultations amid anger at a vote in Congress labelling the mass killing of Armenians as genocide.
The passing of the resolution by a House committee on Wednesday despite appeals by the Bush administration was denounced by President Abdullah Gul.

Turkey accepts there were mass killings in 1915-17 but denies genocide.

Turkey's foreign ministry said the ambassador would return to Turkey for a stay of "a week or 10 days".

"We are not withdrawing our ambassador," said ministry spokesman Levent Bilman.


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"We have asked him to come to Turkey for some consultations."

US President George W Bush had argued against the resolution, saying its passage would do "great harm" to relations with "a key ally in Nato and in the global war on terror".

Turkey is a regional operational hub for the US military, and some suggest access to Incirlik airbase or other supply lines crucial to US forces in Iraq and Afghanistan, could be affected by the row.

The US also fears Turkey may make a military incursion into northern Iraq to neutralise Kurdish separatist guerrillas there, who continue to cross the border to ambush Turkish troops.

'Unacceptable and invalid'

The non-binding vote, passed by 27 to 21 votes by members of the congressional House Foreign Affairs Committee, is the first step towards holding a vote in the House of Representatives.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44171000/jpg/_44171240_girl_ap_203b.jpg
Anti-US protests have been held in Turkey's main cities

It was welcomed by Armenian President Robert Kocharyan who said he hoped for "full [US] recognition... of the genocide".

For Turkey's president, the US vote showed that some US politicians had "closed their ears to calls to be reasonable and once again sought to sacrifice big problems for small domestic political games".

"This unacceptable decision of the committee, like similar ones in the past, is not regarded by the Turkish people as valid or of any value," Mr Gul said late on Wednesday.

Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan confirmed that the Turkish parliament would discuss allowing military incursions into northern Iraq, possibly next week.

The move comes after an escalation in attacks by the PKK killed almost 30 soldiers and civilians in just over a week.

Mr Erdogan said such authorisation, which would be valid for one year, would ensure all options were available to Turkey in its fight against the PKK.

Burning argument

Last year, the lower house of the French parliament declared the killings of Armenians a genocide and at least 20 countries at various levels of legislation have passed resolutions on the issue.


If you start counting the killing of people in recent history, the situation in Darfur should get top priority
Bob, USA
BBC News website reader


Armenia alleges that up to 1.5 million Armenians were killed in an organised campaign to force them out of what is now eastern Turkey.

That is strongly denied by Turkey, which says that large numbers of both Turks and Armenians were killed in the chaos surrounding World War I and the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, when there was an uprising by Armenians.

Earlier on Thursday, the son of murdered Turkish-Armenian writer Hrant Dink was found guilty by a Turkish court of insulting "Turkishness" along with another newspaper editor.

Arat Dink and Serkis Seropyan were convicted after printing Dink's arguments for describing the Ottoman-era killings as genocide.



Story from BBC NEWS:
BBC NEWS | Europe | Turkey recalls ambassador to US (http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/europe/7040366.stm)

Published: 2007/10/11 21:31:00 GMT

© BBC MMVII

Draco
10-11-2007, 06:21 PM
why isn't Greece included in that resolution? They lost hundreds of thousands too to the Turks through exile, executions, etc.
That resolution was probably very controversial and the slightest thing could have made it fail. The Greek cases are (unfortunately) much less documented and if they were included, they could have cost critical votes.

Reaper
10-11-2007, 06:22 PM
About time. Those Turks have got away with that for too long. America gave them Cyprus, now they will give them a little reality about their recent past.

Draco
10-11-2007, 06:40 PM
About time. Those Turks have got away with that for too long. America gave them Cyprus, now they will give them a little reality about their recent past.
At least we know that the Democrats are not (or no longer) absolutely pro-Turk; when they replace Bush (and they will) θα αρχίσουν τα γλέντια με το Κυπριακό.

Incidentally the FYROM issue will have been solved by them, they will have joined NATO under a compromise name and then will be firmly tied to the US, so the US needn't continue trying to woo them. Why do you think the official US policy seems pro-FYROM? They want them to join NATO (and then be part of the west) and prevent them turning to Russia; isolating Russia is their main aim. Do you think they want FYROM to join NATO because of their military capabilities? FYROM cannot significantly contribute militarily to NATO, US insistence on them joining is only part of a larger scheme intended to isolate Russia.

Reaper
10-11-2007, 06:43 PM
So why doesn't Russia help us?

Draco
10-11-2007, 06:44 PM
So why doesn't Russia help us?
With what?

Reaper
10-11-2007, 06:45 PM
Fyrom. Surely would be in their interests to have an ally in the balkans and infact push the agenda of pan-slavicism, rather than help them believe they are macedonians.

Draco
10-11-2007, 06:51 PM
Fyrom. Surely would be in their interests to have an ally in the balkans and infact push the agenda of pan-slavicism, rather than help them believe they are macedonians.
When Yeltsin recognized FYROM as Macedonia, he did it for the following reason: Greece was in NATO, FYROM was not - recognizing FYROM under the name of their choice, he was trying to make closer FYROM-Russian ties appeal more to the FYROMians than closer ties with the Greek-influenced West.

Reaper
10-11-2007, 06:53 PM
And now what can Putin do?

Draco
10-11-2007, 07:03 PM
And now what can Putin do?
I wouldn't worry about Putin too much; his term in office is coming near to its end and he cannot serve a third term. This is regrettable because Putin has been very supportive of the Greek and Cypriot side in the disputes with Turkey.

As I'm sure you know, the FYROM issue is insignificant internationally. Russia in particular has no interest in the issue, recognizing FYROM as "Macedonia" was just a feeble bid to make FYROM be on their side. Now that FYROM only wants to join the West in the EU and NATO and it being the US's poodle even more than the UK, why should Russia even bother seeking closer ties with them. The only country in the Balkans in which Russia has an interest is Greece (read this (http://www.cere.gr/upload/APOPSEIS_20061003.pdf)). All other countries in the area hate them because the Russians forced communism on them and so they are one of the direct causes of the condition of their economies.

Moreover I do think that Russia cannot influence the FYROM name dispute as they have nothing to offer FYROM. The only way to convince them to change their name is by making it a condition for them to join NATO and EU.

Truth Bearer
10-12-2007, 12:27 AM
It seems that the Yanks only notice you when you start appealing to their enemies doesn't it??I wonder what they'll do if we start building an alliance with the Ruskies(Another Cyprus fiasco)....

Truth Bearer
10-14-2007, 03:16 AM
Turkey haunted by Ottoman deed of a century ago

By Andrew Borowiec
October 14, 2007

NICOSIA, Cyprus — "The men were usually led away and shot down just outside their villages. A far worse fate awaited the women and children: they were forced to walk southwards in huge convoys to the burning deserts of northern Syria. Few survived the privations of these terrible death marches."



Such descriptions of the plight of Turkey's Armenians during World War I by the respected London-based Minority Rights Group are banned in Turkey as an insult to "Turkishness."

Turkish writers and journalists have been sentenced to jail for publishing foreign versions of the deaths of some 1.5 million Armenians at the hands of the Ottoman Empire.



The rare authorized versions of the Armenian episode by the Turkish republic, which replaced the Ottomans, claimed the figures quoted in the West are exaggerated, that Turkish Armenians sympathized and collaborated with Russia, then at war with Turkey, and had to be removed far from the areas where they could damage the war effort.



Besides, today's Turkish republic, a candidate for membership in the European Union, is not responsible for acts committed by the Ottoman regime, Turkish officials say.
With the U.S. House of Representatives poised to vote on a resolution branding the deaths of Armenians as genocide, Washington's relations with Turkey have hit a new low. The stakes involve a host of issues including U.S. use of Turkish bases for supplying Iraq, Turkey's role as a trusted ally, the future of Turkish democracy and its threats to pursue Kurdish rebels on Iraqi territory.



Meanwhile, the dominant question in the Turkish press is: Why now? Why are countries such as France and the United States so preoccupied with events almost 100 years old as if there were no other problems in the world?



Writing in Zaman newspaper, Sahin Alpay, a liberal Turkish academic, warned: "The more foreign governments insist that our forebears committed crimes against humanity, the less likely anybody in Turkey is to face up to the hardest moments in history."



There has never been any question of repentance on the part of Turkey similar to modern Germany's atonement for Nazi crimes. And countries such as France, which penalize those who deny the Armenian deaths were genocide, have seen their relations with Turkey curtailed.



The European Union has been pressing Turkey to abolish the contentious Article 301 in the current constitution on offenses to Turkishness as incompatible with freedom of expression in a democracy. Senior Turkish officials have promised to address the problem in a new constitution, which is being drafted.



However, according to Bruce Clark, a British specialist on Turkey, "things have been moving in the opposite direction."



He said the revised Turkish penal code and its preamble, adopted in 2005 "make even more explicit the principle that people may be prosecuted if they insult Turkishness."

pankration
10-17-2007, 01:51 AM
Once again I sit before my computer torn between writing words and throwing this piece of shit through a wall! Turkey has now officially told the Americans to screw themselves because of the Armenian genocide issue. Turkey denies it ever happened and is willing to challenge the USA on this. Can you imagine what would happen if Germany denied the Holocaust? Yet these Turks, who proportionately did far more damage to the Armenians AND Greeks than the Germans to the Jews, continue to have protests (I've seen them) and continue to wave their diplomatic swords at whoever dares question them. As an historian I am shocked by how every group with an axe to grind somehow feels that it has the right to alter history. I hate revisionists; they are the Nazis of the new millenium. The Americans should tell Turkey to fuck themselves and try to re-establish a proper, historically sound relationship with Greece.

Tsontos
10-17-2007, 05:26 AM
I find it incredible that Turkey would withdraw an ambassador from the US because of this. Only "rogue" states withdraw ambassadors from america, let alone Turkey who has benefitted so much from US protection, aid and support from 60 years.

Its also amazing that in modern diplomacy the Turks can use a foreign state's recongition of a genocide Turkey committed in 1915 against Armenians as justification to invade Northern Iraq to pursue Kurdish "terrorists".

nsminc
10-17-2007, 08:54 PM
Guys I think that they're going to withdraw the resolution.

masolord
10-17-2007, 09:44 PM
Go Go turkey !!! show everyone how is done.
I have been inside Turkish house guys ,turks love us.have any one in this forum been inside Turkish house.

Victor
10-17-2007, 09:51 PM
Go Go turkey !!! show everyone how is done.
I have been inside Turkish house guys ,turks love us.have any one in this forum been inside Turkish house.
Ive been in an ARmenian house and in terms of religion,they ARE "us".
If you side with the Turks over them on this issue,youre an idiot.

masolord
10-17-2007, 10:05 PM
If you side with the Turks over them on this issue,youre an idiot.

i am not,i know they massacre millions of Armenians as well thousands of our people during the 500 years of their rule.:dry:

you done the same thing to us during the Greek civil war as well during the Balkan years but you don't see us getting recognition from you or anyone else except more pain and suffering.

i respect how they defend themselves not matter who is there enemy

Victor
10-17-2007, 10:51 PM
you done the same thing to us during the Greek civil war as well during the Balkan years but you don't see us getting recognition from you or anyone else except more pain and suffering.Sho sborvash bre skapan eden?Find me anything in the "Balkan years" that comes close to matching 1.5 million dead Armenians.
You serbomani have NO case in the civil war.YOU sided with communists and YOU caused ALL the pain and suffering.
YOu cant get recognition for something that never happened.:nono:

Spartan
10-18-2007, 10:53 PM
Re Masolord what are you talking about??
A "Mac" genocide?? Please post support for such an event! Greeks never genocided anyone. Your ancestors were Bulgarians and so Greeks and Bulgarians always fought each other over northern Greece.

There was never any kind of Genocide or massacre. So unless you have any kind of support besides Maknews POST ITor else stop with your ridiculous claims!