I know of a story of freedom,

[preston]

I know of a story of freedom,
There was a nation that used to be occupied, they lived in depression and misery for four hundreds years. Their occupiers tried to destroy their culture, their identity, their language and their will to bond. They also though of them as stupid and useless. The years went by and that nation although looked absorbed by its occupier to the outside world, remained strong to its ideals. Wrong or right, lie or true the ideals is what kept them together. Most of these people had spread to the four corners of the globe. Then one day one (just one) of them, that lived abroad, made them believe that they can do it, that they can liberate them selves and claim their land from the occupier. No one thought they would or they could. And suddenly it happened!! The slaves become free men. The land was reunited and prospers to date.
If it can be done once, who says it can't be done again?...lets debate.

[Tsontos]

stupid and useless? Greeks ran the ottoman empire re. any person who ever excelled in any field was a Greek or a Greek muslim

Greeks even under occupation have always been the masters of the aegean whereas the albos, skops and turks have always been the animals

as for your question. the world has changed, the way wars are fought has changed. With estimates that by 2025 there will be as many kurds as turks in turkey means that trouble is coming to our region. the iraq war means this too.

yes its possible

[preston]

stupid and useless? Greeks ran the ottoman empire re. any person who ever excelled in any field was a Greek or a Greek muslim

Greeks even under occupation have always been the masters of the aegean whereas the albos, skops and turks have always been the animals

as for your question. the world has changed, the way wars are fought has changed. With estimates that by 2025 there will be as many kurds as turks in turkey means that trouble is coming to our region. the iraq war means this too.

yes its possible

I WOULD NOT EXPECT ANYTHING ELSE BY BIGTAKIS THEN A BIG MOUTH, LETS SEE IF YOU WORTH IT.
Yes, Greeks were the brains and the doers, that was our advantage, what makes you thing that they will not be that in time?…does it take one’s smartness to win or simply the other’s stupidities?
The sea has helped us before, what do you do when it belongs to EU too? Don’t you have to share it?
The way wars are fought have indeed changed, no need for much firepower now, so what’s the use of our arsenal when they are wining in the corridors of public relations?
Since you agree that it can happen again, tell me why can’t it happen for them?

[Istor]

Diaspora is the treasure of Greece.

[preston]

Istor, it is very good to see you here. Your reputation proceeds you. Well done Ellina, your knowledge is an asset to us all.

[akritas]

As you see Preston Istor and Akritas are two diffrent persons :lol:
I hope some macbourder (soldier, stefov and e.t.c.) realized that :wacko:

[Amarantos]

Preston,sorry but i didn't quite understand your point.You mean history repeating,but this time for fyromians?If so,i've got just one answer:IMPOSSIBLE!!!The fact that the greeks did it thru those 400 hundred years and more(Thessaloniki was liberated in 1912) is based on the feeling that those people belonged to the same nation(ethnos)shared same history,same traditions.Those who spoke a slavic idiom in macedonia(during the time of macedonian struggle) were slaughtered by comitadjides(bulgarians)because they considered themselves greeks and did not cooperated with the bulgarians.The last ones called the non-speaking greeks "grecomani"that is greek maniacs,due to the strenght with which they supported the greek idea.
The fyromians on the other side have not got this sense of belonging in one thing,one idea,one national identity!The 20-25% of fyroms population don't even consider themselves (false)"macedonian".They are ethnic albanians,and consider themselves albanians being proud of it.They proved it without any reasonable doubt back on 2001.
Which land can the fyromians claim?That's a joke!And against who they have to rebel.Seems a nonsense of fyromian propaganda.In macedonia live makedones which is: greeks.Those living in the othoman empire were slaves to othomans,as you say.The fyromians are only slaves to their ignorance and victims of the policy of their own politicians from WW2 till now.They are not winning in the corridors of public relations.Being called "macedonians" by goverments of the world happens because they serve the goals of those govrments.And they serve these goals being divided.They don't understand that a multiethnic country, with the name they claim is condemned by itself.Along with the problems it creates with the neighbouring countries.If people in the world tend to call them "macedonians",happens only by habit.They present themselves in this way and so are accepted.If you present yourself as a canadian or irishman ,i don't have any reason to contest you,or not to believe you.It's what happens between fyromian people and french,spanish,jamaican people in every day life. It's our responsability enlighten the world,defending our history and revealing the lie.

[Tsontos]

I WOULD NOT EXPECT ANYTHING ELSE BY BIGTAKIS THEN A BIG MOUTH, LETS SEE IF YOU WORTH IT.
Yes, Greeks were the brains and the doers, that was our advantage, what makes you thing that they will not be that in time?…does it take one’s smartness to win or simply the other’s stupidities?
The sea has helped us before, what do you do when it belongs to EU too? Don’t you have to share it?
The way wars are fought have indeed changed, no need for much firepower now, so what’s the use of our arsenal when they are wining in the corridors of public relations?
Since you agree that it can happen again, tell me why can’t it happen for them?

you must be doing a few things at once my freind. :)

I dont gett he last question. are you saying why cant it happen for turks? or are you saying that the skopjians could take macedonia

take it from me, takis, its not going to happen. All the talk about consciences and propaganda must have gotten to your head. FYROM is dying.

as far as an actual threat to our territory its just non-existant. doesnt exist

[preston]

Amarantos, you have understood ok. Your input and everyone else’s is what I'm looking for, no question/answers, just share our views. I understand what you are saying but you must admit the more you look at it the more similarities their story has with ours. That’s what we should watch closely.

Taki, I always do more then one think at a time…it’s good fun you should try it every now and then it relaxes your mind and releases some stress.:)
I do not trust overconfidence, I trust been alert. Do you thing their propaganda is strong enough to get in to people’s brain? Well then that's a problem we have!

[PhiliptheUniterchaeronea]

Hey Preston, bless you for getting everyone to think and bless Takis for saying what he has to say. Although I respect opening things up for discussion, I don't think the situations with the northern neighbours are similar in the least with the Greek struggle in the past.

First of all, no matter what the propangandists say, we do not occupey their land. PERIOD. In fact, their southern part of their country (about 20% -25%) is the only part that is Macedonia proper. Therefore, they occupy our land. PERIOD. Do I want a war to get it back? Nope!!! Do I hate these people? Nope!!! But I hate the propaganda and lies, (and I feel sorry for them too). I hate that they make false land claims. I hate they make even falser claims on our heritage. Falser claims on our history. Falser claims on our culture.

The major factors are extremely different. Even their portion of the population that is actually Greek appears to have a Slav consciouness. However, on that I may be very wrong. I read somewhere expressing a Greek consciouness was a HUGE NO NO. There main ethnic group that claims to be Macedonian is mainly a Slavo/Turko/Tartar (perhaps some Greek) ethnic mix. Now who is ethnically pure? Not many, if any group, anywhere. Here is a big differnce with us and other countries compared to them though, we have a continuity with the ancients. No matter how many other ethnicities may have mixed with us over the years. The indigenous peoples in Greece werenever annihalated. PERIOD. The northern neighbours do not have any continnuity with Macdonians in the past, where we do. Neither Slav, nor Turk, nor Tartar was there then. They can hypothesize all they want but the facts show the same thing. They were not there. If they want proof they can dig, but they will be disappointed. All the digging that has taken place shows a Hellenic Macedonia. Talk to Spartan, he's an archeologist. He'll tell you.

There are other differnces with our struggle in the 19th century, but I will not go on. I really do not want to give the impression. Remember, when our Slavophone Greeks back in the old days expressed a Greek consciouness, they were massacered by those who did indeed have a Bulgarian consciouness. They can bitch all they want about Greeks, true or not, but the fact remains we never butchered them.

After all that, I do want them to be a strong and friendly neighbour. For sure. No question about it. But not at the expense of taking our birthright. It is our culture and our history. We also do not deserve to be villafied.

[preston]

Hey Preston, bless you for getting everyone to think and bless Takis for saying what he has to say. Although I respect opening things up for discussion, I don't think the situations with the northern neighbours are similar in the least with the Greek struggle in the past.
Thank you Philip, I think if you step away from passion you will see that it does. Even though that is a complement to them and makes us angry, I think it will be smarter that we see it since we know how to face it.

First of all, no matter what the propangandists say, we do not occupey their land. PERIOD. In fact, their southern part of their country (about 20% -25%) is the only part that is Macedonia proper. Therefore, they occupy our land. PERIOD. Do I want a war to get it back? Nope!!! Do I hate these people? Nope!!! But I hate the propaganda and lies, (and I feel sorry for them too). I hate that they make false land claims. I hate they make even falser claims on our heritage. Falser claims on our history. Falser claims on our culture.
The propagandist do not simply say that we occupy their land, they actually believe it and their people do too, now you tell me what does it take for an army ? Few smart leaders and hoards of stupid followers or few stupid Leaders and hoards of smart followers? Their stupidity and ignorance is their biggest weapon!
If they do occupy our land, and taking in consideration that, you can only teach a barbarian a lesson by the use of force and not by reasoning, then why aren’t we in there right now doing what we have to do? How long are we going to try reason with them knowing that the only language they understand is the Kolokotroni’s slogan that one of our members is using for his signature? They will make claims as long as we claim nothing!! You are a wise man Phillip!!

The major factors are extremely different. Even their portion of the population that is actually Greek appears to have a Slav consciouness. However, on that I may be very wrong. I read somewhere expressing a Greek consciouness was a HUGE NO NO. There main ethnic group that claims to be Macedonian is mainly a Slavo/Turko/Tartar (perhaps some Greek) ethnic mix. Now who is ethnically pure? Not many, if any group, anywhere. Here is a big differnce with us and other countries compared to them though, we have a continuity with the ancients. No matter how many other ethnicities may have mixed with us over the years. The indigenous peoples in Greece werenever annihalated. PERIOD. The northern neighbours do not have any continnuity with Macdonians in the past, where we do. Neither Slav, nor Turk, nor Tartar was there then. They can hypothesize all they want but the facts show the same thing. They were not there. If they want proof they can dig, but they will be disappointed. All the digging that has taken place shows a Hellenic Macedonia. Talk to Spartan, he's an archeologist. He'll tell you.
Their consciousness is Macedonian of their version, they hate everything Greek including people among them that show any Greek favouritism. Among their Diaspora the strongest and most active ones are the ones with Greek heritage! The others are too thick too do anything! Their main group is Bulgarian. The Ethnically “pure” claim is something they use against us, part of their whole strategy which is to fight us the same way we fought them in the past. Their claims (this is strictly my view) regarding history and purity and all that is simply a trick, keeping in mind that politics of a country is designed at the capitol by politicians, I think that they are just a Bulgarian vehicle to achieve strategic victories against us on behalf of Bulgaria. Look at the way they rush in for passport from Bulgaria !! Look at how cleverly they have turned Bulgarians in to their National heroes, imagine the advantage Bulgaria will have (they recognised them first as Macedonians) if the come out victorious against us on the name issue. If you can read Greek go have a look at this article, do not ignore it its written by a serious historian/reported that was the first to vist Boulgaria years ago…http://www.hri.org/docs/mpegrdocs/96-01-03_1.mpegrdocs.html


After all that, I do want them to be a strong and friendly neighbour. For sure. No question about it. But not at the expense of taking our birthright. It is our culture and our history. We also do not deserve to be villafied.



Sorry to say but if their Diaspora and Bulgaria get their ways…we have only but one choice when comes to dealing with them….and it wont be nice!:nono:

[preston]

Spartan is an archeologist ..cool. Listen to this, when I was posting on their maknews site, this skopiano came in and asked for help translating the script on a plaque. There was o photo of a half dag up “plaka” with Hellenic script on it, I had a go with my basic Arhea and then send it to my brother in Athens who forwarded to a scholar in the University of Athens, the man translated it and with no other info at hand he sai “It’s a standard ancient Greek “epitimvia plaka” from a man named Dionisios (Dioskouros) to his dead wife, used to be placed on top of tombs just like we place a cross these days” I thanked my brother and his friend. When I notified the Skopiano he would hear nothing of it,agresively his claim was “I will stick to my view that talks about God..jewish probably”:blink: that’s after he asked for help coz he had no idea what was on it!! Go figure the brainwashed!:wacko:
I think the skopiano and his mates had dag it up near Skopije so it will not have served their reasoning too well!...and then they belive among them selves that we used to delete the Macedonian scripts on archeological finds and put Greek on top!!!

[Spartan]

Those Greek incsciptions in FYROM are found all the time. There are very few real controls on looting over there. There was another script "supposedly" dating to the 8th or 9th century that some FYROM posted up. It was inscribed in some archaic Hellenic Script(not certain which dialect), and it discussed about the Macedonians coming down from upper Illyria and conquering Edessa.

The funny thing about the posting was that it had all kinds of problems with Provenience, Chronology and other things.

I will look the print up and the site I found it tonight and post it in the morning.

One last thing.

These FYROMs crack me up, they always make the claim that the Greek government "Covers-up" archaeological and epigraphic evidences in order to hide the fact that the Ancient Macedonians were not Greek. But in return, we NEVER see them or the Bulgarians publishing any archaeological evidence, inscriptions, etc. from their own countries(that the Greek government can't cover-up) that shows anything else but the Greekness of the Ancient Macedonians.

[preston]

Thanks for that Spartan, any info from your discipline will be greatly appreciated, I will se if I can find the pic and posted for all to see.

[preston]

http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/8845/img25mp4de.th.jpg
This is the answer I got from the archeologist in Athens.
[I]Λοπόν, από ότι βλέπω η επιγραφή δεν έχει αποκαλυφθεί πλήρως. Η ανασκαφή δεν ολοκληρώθηκε ακόμα, οπότε αν ολοκληρωθεί και έχουμε την εικόνα πάλι πολλά μπορούν να ειπωθούν (εκτός αν δεν μπορεί να ολοκληρωθεί ή έχει σταματήσει).
Θα ήταν ενδιαφέρον για χρονολογικούς λόγους να μας πει σε τι μνημείο βρέθηκε. Αν και από ότι βλέπω μάλλον είναι τοποθετημένη ως οικοδομικό υλικό σε μεταγενέστερο κτίριο.
Σε γενικές γραμμές είναι μια επιγραφή πιθανότατα επιτύμβια (τοποθετημένη στον τάφο κάποιου, όπως σήμερα βάζουμε το σταυρό)αν κρίνουμε και από την αναφορά "ευατώ μνείας" (για ανάμνηση του εαυτού) σττο τέλος.
Στην αρχή έχει το όνομά του "Διόσκουρος" και λογικά ακολουθεί το όνομα του πατέρα του "Δ ... σιου (Διονυσίου ?) και μετά δε βγάζω πολύ νόημα "ΚΕΡΖΑΙΛΑΤΩΥ" ( ? ). Κατόπιν λείπει πάλι κομμάτι και στη τρίτη γραμμή διαβάζουμε "ΑΙΑΝΝΑ" "ΤΗ" "ΣΥΝΒ"(ΙΑ ?) και τέλος στην τέταρτη γραμμή "ΕΑΥΤΩ ΜΝΕΙΑΣ Χ"(ΑΡΙΝ?).

Με απλά λόγια ο Διονύσιος Διονυσίου αφιέρωσε τη στήλη στη σύζυγό του (τη συνβία εαυτώ) προν ανάμνηση (μνείας χάριν).
I]
PS: Unfortunately I can't find the skopiano's answer in their site...looks like they have removed the lot (or burried it again....axaxaxax), maybe akritas can, since he has survived there so far! :)

[Amarantos]

[QUOTE=preston]Amarantos, you have understood ok. Your input and everyone else’s is what I'm looking for, no question/answers, just share our views. I understand what you are saying but you must admit the more you look at it the more similarities their story has with ours. That’s what we should watch closely.

Preston,i find it difficult to follow you!No,i can't admit that the more i look at it the more similarities i find between their (hi?)story and ours.Please explain to me what similarities do you see.
I agree with you that we have to look and examine their views ,so as to prove to the people that don't know history what is true and what is a fraud!

[akritas]

Preston in order how to post pictures read this
http://www.macedoniaontheweb.com/forum/showthread.php?t=223

I remember the Dioskouros inscription from macnewsforum. But wasn't clear inscription as also and the photo.

[preston]

Amarantos ,
Lets start with the intangible ones:
Desire to unite, Common ideals, belief in heritage, language culture and religion, historical timing.
Now lets move to the tangible:
Rich and educated Diaspora, independence, growing economy, strategic position, interest from other nations to support them, our laziness and overconfidence
Do you agree?

Thanks akrita, I still cant do it, the link u provided requires password.

[akritas]

Preston you don't need password , is free
http://imageshack.us/
try again

[preston]

Preston you don't need password , is free
http://imageshack.us/
try again
Thank you akrita, it worked, its now posted above.

[Amarantos]

[QUOTE=preston]Amarantos ,

Desire to unite
Unite who with who?Fyromians that live in fyrom with fyromians that live all around the world?Neither albania and bulgaria nor Greece accept the existance of a fyromian minority in their territory,because simply don't exist.I haven't visited albania and bulgaria,but i can assure you that in greece there is no fyromian minority.
Common ideals
Common ideals shared in ethnic albanians and pseudomacedonians?:lol: The same pseudomacedonians share pseudomacedonian and clearly bulgarian ideals!That's the reason why to my opinion 100.000(in 1.500.000) of them have a bulgar passport.
belief in heritage, language culture and religion
This is an interesting argument.Only a couple of months ago i was reading articles,that i couldn't find in this moment,about the archibishop of Ochrid, Jovan,who was imprisoned for being an ally of the serbian church and for establishing a archdiocese with a name that has nothing to do with the name macedonia.
historical timing
I think fyromians are the third attempt to deprive Greece from of its history.This happened in different ways every time,but always with the aim to control the aegean sea.The last 150 in different eras and with different timing,taking advantage of the circunstances firstly the russian empire,then the bulgars and now fyromians tried to put in practise this plan.Times changed but from the era of catherine the great till the years of tito,who gave birth to fyrom,the goal was the same.

Rich and educated Diaspora
rich?yes.If the fyromian diaspora wasn't rich their propaganda wouldn't have confused in the whole world those who don't study history and the naive.Educated?I would say "trained".
independence, growing economy
I recently read that almost 55% of foreign investments in fyrom are of greek interests!This means a lot!
strategic position, interest from other nations to support them
yes i agree.For their strategic position and for the fact that as a partner to support they don't cost much and they pretend less for being protected.
our laziness and overconfidence
I would't call it laziness.The greek diaspora offers fortunately the maximum to the greek nation.But you should know that in greece ,unfortunately,the internet runs yet with 512kbps,if i'm not wrong.And to my point of view, to fight the internet war you've got to have the right arms.
Moreover there are certain persons in greece that coltivate the sense that the battle is already lost without even go to the battlefield,and i try to understand what kind of interests they serve.They try to influense those who suffer of luck of confidence.I say to you and to all what Anthimos,the metropolitan bishop of Thessaloniki,repeated last september:'Η ταν 'η επι τας!!!

[preston]

Amarantos, your posting is very interesting, thank you for taking the time. Your passion about this is what we all share in common, let's hope Greece starts shearing that too. What His Holiness Mitropolitis Anthimos said is what Greece will say when the times require it. Let's hope it will be not too late.
Greece has all available internet connections just like the rest of the world. A bit more expensive then Australia and a bit more difficult to get installed. Microsoft just signed up an exclusivity agreement with the government for establishment of all Greek state networks, in very short time we will be leaders in Internet Technology...you know how we do things...at the last minute and Massive.:worshippy
Reserve your frustration for the kimismenous Ellines (and unfortunately we have plenty of them over there!) I have grown up in Greece and I served our country as a President's Guard, the first I heard of the fyrominians was in 1988 during my visit in Melbourne when I saw them burning a Greek flag. Ever since I have been studing them and ever since I have been trying to let our people find out...den endiaferonte distihos.
Lets make sure the rest of Greece finds out about the fyrominian Diaspora and what they have been trying to do, my bet is that the day that happens is the day that all their sickening dreams will come to an end. You see my friend back in Greece (except the Makedones at the North) no one gives a shit coz they are too confident, so the whole issue is less then TV trivia news, let them find out what the fyrominians are about and then see what happens! To tell you the truth my hope was that we were going to call for a National Referendum regarding their name, in that way the TV stations in greece would have started to show footage and reports from Melbourne and Toronto, I would have loved to see footage of these bastards munipulating or flag and how the avarage Greek citizen will have reacted the next day. As we say...we will only have to send Gate 4 Fans of PAOK in to Skopjie and that will be the and of them..(thanks akritas)

[preston]

This is the link of a forum in Greece, some very inteligent people get together there and discuss very interesting things. They had a thread about the Macedonian issue (recent one) and I posted, not to my surprise very small interest. I suggest we all do something about it and lets get these Greek brothers of us to join us here and tell us what they think. The forum is in Greek but I'm sure they all speak multiple languages...lets do some thing constructive...this is the link http://www.e-telescope.gr/forum/viewtopic.php?t=255&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=140 I have posted as Antipodes. They also have a poll ther asking "What Greece should do for the name?"..53 of them have voted, maybe you want to do something about it.

[akritas]

Preston is Gate 4 :)
Gate 7 for Olympiakos, Gate 3 for Aris, Gate 21 for AEK and Gate 13 for the Rubbits..opssss soory PAO :rolleyes:

[Amarantos]

... I have been trying to let our people find out...den endiaferonte distihos.
Lets make sure the rest of Greece finds out about the fyrominian Diaspora and what they have been trying to do, my bet is that the day that happens is the day that all their sickening dreams will come to an end. You see my friend back in Greece (except the Makedones at the North) no one gives a shit coz they are too confident, so the whole issue is less then TV trivia news, let them find out what the fyrominians are about and then see what happens! To tell you the truth my hope was that we were going to call for a National Referendum regarding their name, in that way the TV stations in greece would have started to show footage and reports from Melbourne and Toronto, I would have loved to see footage of these bastards munipulating or flag and how the avarage Greek citizen will have reacted the next day.

:thumbs: i agree with you Preston!!!I find it hard to understand why greek goverments avoid a referendum on such an importand argument, which moreover as you say, would enlighten all greek people in greece on what is going on around the world.It would also show to the rest of the world that something is not right with this small country on our north.The problem with some of us is that we forget that "η συζυγος του Καισαρος δεν αρκει να ειναι τιμια,αλλα και να φαινεται τιμια"!
Fortunately the church is doing once again in greece it's fundamental part,thank god!:worshippy
To my opinion it was not a coincidence all that story that had to do last year with the ecclesiastical scandals.It was the time when U.N made its proposals on the name issue.
I saw you understand greek.Have you visited ex president's of greek republic website?That goes to all of you guys!!!!!
(unfortunately,i think it's only in greek)
http://www.sartzetakis.gr/

[Nikos]

Preston, my regards at first. You don't make many mistakes when writting in Greek.

I post from Greece. I joined an international forum because there is lack of interest in the Greek forums as you see. And there are no people to discuss this matter. Do you agree Istor and Akrita?

I suggest that you go through all the posts of the thread where you posted.
There you will get a more clear picture.
Some say clearly that what is left is to recognize this country. Many others say "skopianoi" blah blah, etc, but the picture they give is that they will not suicide if this country is recognized as Macedonia. And finally there two or three hardliners.

Also very interesting is the result of the poll. Only 53 voted since November 2005, 10% out of them say that Greece must recognize them as Macedonia, 63%!! say that we must go towards a combined naming (we have to discuss on this topic because the compined naming is a joke), 4%! eternal negociations excluding the name Macedonia for them, and 20% hardline.

And all of this by people who saw a thread with the name "Macedonia and Skopia" and joined it. Because there are thousands of others who saw this link and said "I don't care", or "leave me alone with this matter, I am fed up; Skopia, Skopia, Skopia, mercy no more Skopia please".

This is more or less how the people of Greece think on this matter.

As regards your post, it is apparent that it has nothing to do with the other posts. It is radically diffirent and completely out of the general climate. You speak about "gyftoi", about threatening us, whereas noone in this topic is afraid of them.
I also noted that you call them Slavo-Macedonians, therefore Macedonians.

The picture I got when I first time posted in this forum was surpising for me.
Indeed, my opinions are a bit shocking, but I say things that many people in Greece say. Ban me? why? did I say lies?

So the outcome is that the name issue is a matter of low interest in Greece, but of huge interest among the Greeks of Australia. Few from the USA seem also concerned.
However I have never met in the Macedonian forums someone from Germany, Sweden, Belgium, UK, Italy, Cyprus and other places where numerous Greek communities exist. Is there anybody from these countries here?

The Greeks of Greece appear to be ready to recognize Macedonia if the national interest of Greece dictates that we should do so.
On the other hand the Greeks of Australia shout that Greece should by no means do the above.
So there it is a division in global Hellenism. The Greek communities do not understand each other anymore and this is katastrophic.
The goal must be the unity and everything will follow.

The Greek community of Australia is fanatized. I don't know what are the relations with the Macedonian immigrants there, you will have to tell us.
Perhaps the Australian governments follow the policy of devide and rule towards the ethnic communities of Australia.
But you must understand that this must not affect the balkan policy of Greece.
The Greek foreign policy will not change because 10 idiots burn the Greek flag in Melbourn.

Please note that from today we have a new minister of Foreign affairs, Dora Bakoyianni who has expressed diffirent ideas with regard to the Greek-Macedonian relations.

-----------------------

Sartzetakis.gr???!!! HA HA HA.
And all of you remember: The story with the referendum is a huge hoax. It was a blofa and nothing more.
Also remember what happened with the church's collection of signatures.

[Amarantos]

I suggest that you go through all the posts of the thread where you posted.
There you will get a more clear picture.
Some say clearly that what is left is to recognize this country. Many others say "skopianoi" blah blah, etc, but the picture they give is that they will not suicide if this country is recognized as Macedonia. And finally there two or three hardliners.

Also very interesting is the result of the poll. Only 53 voted since November 2005, 10% out of them say that Greece must recognize them as Macedonia, 63%!! say that we must go towards a combined naming (we have to discuss on this topic because the compined naming is a joke), 4%! eternal negociations excluding the name Macedonia for them, and 20% hardline.

And all of this by people who saw a thread with the name "Macedonia and Skopia" and joined it. Because there are thousands of others who saw this link and said "I don't care", or "leave me alone with this matter, I am fed up; Skopia, Skopia, Skopia, mercy no more Skopia please".

This is more or less how the people of Greece think on this matter.

Nikos,give me a break!I think you've got the wrong idea.Don't need to generalize.Just from one site,you arrive at the point to say that people in greece more or less think like that.:nono:

[Amarantos]

So the outcome is that the name issue is a matter of low interest in Greece, but of huge interest among the Greeks of Australia. Few from the USA seem also concerned.
However I have never met in the Macedonian forums someone from Germany, Sweden, Belgium, UK, Italy, Cyprus and other places where numerous Greek communities exist. Is there anybody from these countries here?

The Greeks of Greece appear to be ready to recognize Macedonia if the national interest of Greece dictates that we should do so.
On the other hand the Greeks of Australia shout that Greece should by no means do the above.
So there it is a division in global Hellenism. The Greek communities do not understand each other anymore and this is katastrophic.
The goal must be the unity and everything will follow.

A matter of low interest????In greece???:wacko:
Allow me to present myself.I'm writing from italy.
What do you say about national interest?Recognaze fyrom with a greek name ?Why are you laughing in that way on Sartzetakis?Are u a simmoritis?:lol:
I really don't see a division in global Hellenism.If you see such thing you should try too to unify Greeks for the national interests as you say!But it seems to me that when you use unity you are not speaking of greeks.

[Salpigoal]

Nikovski,
as a Greek from Australia I can tell you that there is no chance that we would stand back and allow these Albanians to use the name Macedonia. I seriously cannot see where you are coming from and what you are attempting to achieve. You seem to be attempting to divide Greeks, and trying to give the impression that Greeks in Greece don't care about the issue, hoping perhaps that us Greeks overseas would then lose interest in the matter.
You seem to be a bit of a kopano and I doubt that you are Greek. However, if you are, then you probably should be shot for your stupidity.:spkennysh

[HellenicPride]

Preston, my regards at first. You don't make many mistakes when writting in Greek.

I post from Greece. I joined an international forum because there is lack of interest in the Greek forums as you see. And there are no people to discuss this matter. Do you agree Istor and Akrita?

I suggest that you go through all the posts of the thread where you posted.
There you will get a more clear picture.
Some say clearly that what is left is to recognize this country. Many others say "skopianoi" blah blah, etc, but the picture they give is that they will not suicide if this country is recognized as Macedonia. And finally there two or three hardliners.

Also very interesting is the result of the poll. Only 53 voted since November 2005, 10% out of them say that Greece must recognize them as Macedonia, 63%!! say that we must go towards a combined naming (we have to discuss on this topic because the compined naming is a joke), 4%! eternal negociations excluding the name Macedonia for them, and 20% hardline.

And all of this by people who saw a thread with the name "Macedonia and Skopia" and joined it. Because there are thousands of others who saw this link and said "I don't care", or "leave me alone with this matter, I am fed up; Skopia, Skopia, Skopia, mercy no more Skopia please".

This is more or less how the people of Greece think on this matter.

As regards your post, it is apparent that it has nothing to do with the other posts. It is radically diffirent and completely out of the general climate. You speak about "gyftoi", about threatening us, whereas noone in this topic is afraid of them.
I also noted that you call them Slavo-Macedonians, therefore Macedonians.

The picture I got when I first time posted in this forum was surpising for me.
Indeed, my opinions are a bit shocking, but I say things that many people in Greece say. Ban me? why? did I say lies?

So the outcome is that the name issue is a matter of low interest in Greece, but of huge interest among the Greeks of Australia. Few from the USA seem also concerned.
However I have never met in the Macedonian forums someone from Germany, Sweden, Belgium, UK, Italy, Cyprus and other places where numerous Greek communities exist. Is there anybody from these countries here?

The Greeks of Greece appear to be ready to recognize Macedonia if the national interest of Greece dictates that we should do so.
On the other hand the Greeks of Australia shout that Greece should by no means do the above.
So there it is a division in global Hellenism. The Greek communities do not understand each other anymore and this is katastrophic.
The goal must be the unity and everything will follow.

The Greek community of Australia is fanatized. I don't know what are the relations with the Macedonian immigrants there, you will have to tell us.
Perhaps the Australian governments follow the policy of devide and rule towards the ethnic communities of Australia.
But you must understand that this must not affect the balkan policy of Greece.
The Greek foreign policy will not change because 10 idiots burn the Greek flag in Melbourn.

Please note that from today we have a new minister of Foreign affairs, Dora Bakoyianni who has expressed diffirent ideas with regard to the Greek-Macedonian relations.

-----------------------

Sartzetakis.gr???!!! HA HA HA.
And all of you remember: The story with the referendum is a huge hoax. It was a blofa and nothing more.
Also remember what happened with the church's collection of signatures.


Where in gods name do you come up with this theory division in global Hellenism. I can assure you , I live in the NY ( the belly of the beast) most Greeks here are opposed to Fyromanians using the name Macedonia. Where do you come up with these theories I would like to know. Their is unity amongst Greeks in diaspora I can assure you that. Whether it involves Fyrom or anything else that has to do with Hellas interests. To say we see eye to eye on everything no , but on major issues when Hellas is under attack or threat we think the same.

[Tsontos]

Nikov havent you embaressed yourself enough already on this site?

[preston]

I saw you understand greek.Have you visited ex president's of greek republic website?That goes to all of you guys!!!!!
(unfortunately,i think it's only in greek)
http://www.sartzetakis.gr/

That's the one I guarded (and his wife lovely Kiria Froso) I did not know he had a website, thank you amarante I will have a good look.

[preston]

Nikos, firstly let me tell you that I’m glad and happy for you to be here. I see your presences here as probably an important think that has happened to my personal quest on the issue. Thank you also for the comment on my spelling. I do not call them giftous, all my Greek friends in Greece do and I disagree.
I will read more thoroughly all pages of your forum, although having grown up in Greece it only took me to read a few pages to understand that they are intelligent Greeks.
Hopping that you will find the interest and passion to stay in this forum I’m certain that you will see the real picture of the Greek communities around the Globe and the real threat of the Slavomacedonians. I do call them that because I’m partially accepting a small compromise.
1.The thinks you will discover if you stay here are:
2.We are not talking about few fanatics burning a flag.
3.The Greeks of Diaspora are very united on the issue.
4.Greece is ignoring us and therefore allowing institutions such as LAOS and the Church to approach us.
5.Our knowledge of the issue is unique, because we are part of a time capsule that you are not and you will have to face in the near future.

As I posted in your site about the Children of the Aegean Macedonia having claims I will also tell you that Ouranio Toxo, VRMO (their political party), church and government official are paying regular visits to Australia for funds and awareness raising. Among their (near perfect organizations) that numbers hundreds of them with thousands of members they have support of prominent individuals such as the famous Mr George Soros and others.

Niko this is not about some worthless topic that some kolovlahi metanastes from Australia carry on about, this is a real threat to Greece that has managed to unite even 4th generation Greeks who see the real threat. Stay in this forum, except my apology for verbal attacks by other members, give us some of you time and see. Thank you for coming!

[preston]

PS:I have created a new thread for Niko.

[preston]

irrelevant but funny:clapping: :clapping: ...do a search on Lonely Planet (backpackers net guide to traveling) and look under Fyrom and Greece safety warnings:

FYROM:
Tensions in Border Areas
In northern and western Macedonia, travel should be restricted to main roads and daylight hours. Unexploded ordnance plagues pockets of these areas, and the border with Serbia and Montenegro is a military zone. Ethnic tensions in the region bordering Kosovo can erupt into occasional violence.



GREECE:
Bar scams continue to be an unfortunate fact of life in Athens, particularly in the Syntagma area. The basic scam is always some variation on the following theme: solo male traveller is lured into bar on some pretext (not always sex); strikes up conversation with friendly locals; charming girls appear and ask for what turn out to be ludicrously overpriced drinks; traveller is eventually handed an enormous bill. Fortunately, this practice appears confined to Athens at this stage.
Crime, especially theft, is low in Greece, but unfortunately it is on the increase. The worst area is around Omonia in central Athens - keep track of your valuables here, especially on the metro and at the Sunday flea market.
The vast majority of thefts from tourists are still committed by other tourists; the biggest danger of theft is probably in dormitory rooms in hostels and at camping grounds. So make sure you do not leave valuables unattended in such places. If you are staying in a hotel room and the windows and door do not lock securely, ask for your valuables to be locked in the hotel safe - hotel proprietors are happy to do this.

AXAXAXAXAXAXAAXAXXAXAX

[pankration]

Let us not forget that when propagandists want to build up a confused, bitter, impoverished people they channel the past even if it's someone else's. It worked for every dictator in the last century; even Hitler who stole the history of the Aryans (who were about as German as penguins). Hitler stated through Goebbels that if you say something often enough people will believe it. The Skopjean revisionists think that by linking their people to Alexander's Macedonia they walk with giants. Unfortunately for them, mountains, language and culture separated them from Greece as effectively as an ocean. They are and will remain slavs.

[preston]

PANKRATION,
Let’s get serious no one in this earth will ever see them as the direct offspring of the Ancient Macedonians. Their current acceptance of the name Macedonia is purely a political victory on their behalf and a reflection of this planet’s nations for no more blood in the Balkans, plus our politician’s stupidity. To me it’s as worthy as our political victory over the name of FETA as “appellation d'origine”
It’s their propaganda that we need to fight against. You are right about you comment and as I have posted before, it only takes a few smart leaders and a lot of stupid uneducated people to put together an army that will cause problems. Lets make sure they end up just like the Nazis!!

[akritas]

The Greeks of Greece appear to be ready to recognize Macedonia if the national interest of Greece dictates that we should do so.

Niko the Greeks in Greece NEVER be ready to recoqnize FYROM as Macedonia. So keep your conclusion by-yourself. Not generalize your personnal opinion as Greek. You remind me the HLM (Katerina), Preston knows what I am talking about, a Greek that she is not Greek, is just a Stefou ferefono.

[Tsontos]

Correction: Most of The Greeks of Greece dont give a shit about Skopia

LOL @ you saying they are ready to recognise them. Its called apathy. is apathy a good thing???

Just leave from this site you ignorant mut.

So are you still living in athens man?