Human Like Me (Katerina)

[preston]

A View from the Other Side

Part 1 - The Journey of a Greek

by Katerina

turquoise_planet@yahoo.com

December 2005


Today it is with a bittersweet feeling of reflection, that I cast my mind back to one year ago. Exactly this time last year, my family and I were in hospital filled with anguish and in shock. My father, a fit and healthy man of 72, had suddenly had a stroke. In the ward we were tending to him, hugging him, and talking to him, wondering just how much of what we were saying to him he could actually understand.

As he stared with vacant eyes at my son, who talked to him in English, it was evident he could not understand him. He could no longer understand his former second language. My son, named after him and terribly close to him all his life, looked at me in grief.

I stroked my father's forehead, kissed it, and told him in his native Greek tongue "everything will be ok".

His eyes briefly lit up and even though he could not speak at that moment I knew he understood me.

The next few days were filled with anxiety and uncertainty as to what his progress would be. He could not talk but seemed to understand Greek. I noticed that his eyes would especially shine whenever I hugged him and kissed him. I did a lot of that.

As the days progressed I began to notice other patients in the beds around us. They always looked at us, my family, with a smile on their face.

We spoke with them and I discovered that almost everybody in my father's ward was Macedonian. We were the only Greeks there. All of their visiting families would come right up to us and just shake our hands every time we saw them and would tell us what a lovely and loving family my father was blessed with. I was so surprised at the warmth these people showed. They seemed more interested in news of my own father's progress than talking about themselves.

My family, especially myself, found their friendliness, concern and warmth very supportive and comforting. In return, by speaking with these patients and their relatives, I made a point of finding out each person's ailment and predicament.

Those were extremely trying weeks for all of us but the day came when we took my father home. He could speak a little and although he was not the man he once was, I was very happy to have my beloved 'baba' (daddy in Greek) back.

It was an emotional day for all of us when we checked my father out of the hospital, saying good-bye to all those lovely people who still remained in the ward.

After wishing them the very best and shaking dozens of hands, a lady, a worker in the hospital, I had not seen before came and approached us. She said "you are really nice people; I hope you don't have a problem with us being Macedonian? You know politics."

As I heard the words I looked at her with puzzlement as my family shook our heads signifying "No". She narrowed her eyes in disbelief as she watched us depart. I saw fleetingly a look as though she wanted to believe us, followed by an incredibly haunted look of pain. I was stunned, absolutely unable to comprehend the experience.

As the days passed, my baba steadily improved and is much better now a year later. But I simply could not get that woman's look out of my mind. What was she talking about? What politics?

I knew that there was a dispute between Greeks and Macedonians about a name but I thought it was all nonsense. Why would Macedonians be anything other than Macedonian? I thought only a small number of very ignorant people thought differently.

I knew in my own life I was the child of migrants to Australia whose heritage originated in Asia Minor. My own ancestors were migrants from former Constantinople who migrated to Athens in the 1920's. This was the case of both my mother and my father's families. I knew that my mother had been raised by her grandmother, who was a Christian, yet whose native language was Turkish.

My mother raised us on her grandmother's food. She always called it Turkish food as she cooked from her grandmother's recipes. The rest of the time she cooked Greek meals. I was raised to consider myself an Australian born Greek. I was comfortable with that but not quite satisfied. I needed to know more especially about this "politics" bit.

That is when my serious questioning began. What was it about Macedonian politics? What could it possibly have to do with me? I, myself, already knew I was a mixture of at least one other ethnicity even though I called myself Greek: still that was how I was raised to be a Greek.

If my own ethnicity had been determined more by its association to religion and less by 'blood' why would other ethnicities also not live in Greece?

My ancestors fled former Constantinople, which was under Ottoman occupation because their choices were to either convert to Islam or die. They wanted to remain Christian and for that they were forced to move to Greece who accepted them for their religion, if not for their language. Even though they were Christians the only language they spoke was Turkish.

Life was harsh for them in Greece until they adopted new Greek names and learned to speak Greek. They still spoke Turkish but in confidence and never in public.

I was always aware of my background and often kidded with my Turkish girlfriends; that had my relatives chosen Islam, their religion, I too would have been as Turkish as they are and never have known any different.

This was my perception of myself being 'Greek'.

Accepting who I was and the way I know myself, I made my decision to learn more about my background and about this "Macedonian politics".

As I recalled the words "I hope you don't have a problem with us being Macedonian?" it still haunted me. I needed to know why this question was asked. Why would anybody mind? The Balkans consisted of so many ethnicities. What was I missing in my understanding?

I had studied Greek mythology and I knew about the Ancient Greek philosophers.

I loved "Euripides' Medea", "Homer's Iliad" and "Plato's Republic". Ancient Greeks sure had contributed a lot to modern civilization.

I was taught to read and write in Greek. This was my nationality. Yet I needed to know how my Turkish ethnic heritage related to me being Greek.

I went to many Greek sites on the internet in search of answers and found many things like Ancient Greek gods, Greek mythology and feats of ancient Greek accomplishments telling me how great and how Greek I was, but nothing about my Turkish background.

I thought it interesting, the way one considers a fairytale interesting, but could find nothing to inform me of ethnic people called Macedonian, other than "Greek Macedonian" and definitely no information about Turkish speaking Greeks. Yet this was my own "Greek" background. In my life I had known Vlachs who called themselves Greek too, however, nobody in my family could understand them when they spoke. This too had puzzled me.

I knew of the great Byzantine era and this too was my heritage. I had read, however, that in this era Byzantium was under Roman occupation. Unfortunately I could find no mention of Romans or any other ethnicities referred to, in any form of worth, prior to Ottoman occupation. In fact everybody and everything worth mentioning from the Byzantine era seemed to be ethnically Greek in origin. Just as everything else I was reading seemed to indicate, right up to the present day, Greek origin.

To me none of this was making any logical sense! By now I was very puzzled and annoyed. This is when I decided to look at alternate web sites and found Macedonians.

Macedonians had a different view not only of themselves but also of all the ethnicities in the Balkans and surrounding region. That's when I started to find things that I had not been able to find anywhere in those other sites or books!

The difference in perception of this "representation of reality" was light-years ahead in thinking realistically.

I had grown up in Australia, a multi-ethnic, multicultural society and always thought this was the natural order of things everywhere in the world. Yet to my surprise I was told that "only one predominant, all Greek race, existed in Greece since ancient times, since 4000 years ago"!

Nationally speaking, yes I was Greek, but ethnically speaking it seemed to be the case only for a very short time.

On Macedonian sites, by reading references about people called Macedonian, Vlachs, etc., but most importantly prosfigi (people who migrated to Greece and raised their families Greek but were not otherwise native to Greece), I found what I was looking for.


Eureka! I had finally found people with my background and ethnic heritage!

It was a revelation to find that the Balkan community outside of Greece is such an incredibly rich multi-ethnic mixture of people but so disillusioning to find that the community that resides inside Greece is all Greek and only speaks Greek, since ancient times.

My own life experience had already shown me different.

By looking at the Macedonians I had found others like myself, people who were non-Greek in ethnic origin yet were being uniformly described as Greek. People with no other past, no other language, and no other culture who made up this Greek definition, yet somehow once inside this narrow term, disappeared from view in all other ways.

This was just the beginning of my journey and what I was about to learn was so much more than I had ever imagined.

The veil of innocence had been lifted from my light-hearted venture. Underlying the words I was reading and putting the pieces together, the human reality I started to see unfolding before my eyes filled me with the most profound sense of horror.

Finally I began to understand that haunted look of pain in the eyes of the woman I had once met, one long year ago.

To be continued.

You can contact the author at her e-mail turquoise_planet@yahoo.com

[akritas]

Preston long time to see you ? What happened ?
Personally I believed that she is a creation of Stefov. All the articles show me that express the nationalistic ideas of Stefov.

There is a new article from her
http://www.maknews.com/html/articles/stefov/digest_1.html
Cassandra's Curse. All the continent of this article has the Stefov ideas.
e.g. Greeks also argue, that the homogenous continuity of their ethnic lineage reveals they are the most genetically pure people of the Balkans.
Are you remind something ?

[preston]

Gia sou akrita,
What happened?...well what can I say...your quote of Aristotelis says it all. :clap2:
Anyway I'm back and I'm glad to see you.:thumbs:
I see your opinion about Katerina and I must admit its similer to what i have been told by others. I still think she is a real person and a true Greek, what confuses me is why she is so anti-Greek?... I mean...I have always had my critisism about our own (just like most of us) but why she decided to go the other way in such an importand issue and neglect to see their evil is beyond me.
be peacfull and see u soon!

[akritas]

The asthenes fullo always came first :clap2: I hope Florina and HLM do not read these fallocratica quotes :laugh:
Don't confuse to much. You will meet and others Greeks similar with the HLM ideas. Specially in the Greek forums. A few and recognisible. But the HLM is a anti-Greek Copy of Stefov or Stefou.
BTW what hapened in Florina?

[PhiliptheUniterchaeronea]

I will help any Skopjian, as a human and an individual, always. However, never will I help them take my history and culture. It is our identity. Never will they morally be able to take the name Macedonia. NEVER!!!

So Katerina, do as you want, say what you will, but these people never will have any right to our culture and history. When she is on her death bed many years from now, not being able to talk or move, it will be too late for her to take it all back. What regret that will be. How much of her son's heritage will she give. THis to the Slavs, something else to the ALbanians, another piece to the Turks, etc, etc... (Ever hear of Black Athena). Then what? Does she want to give the land? With all due respect Katerina, what is appropriate to give to your neighbours when they come over for dinner? How long do they stay? Just what does dinner entail, when do they kick you and your family out of your own house? No that is not an exageration.

[Istor]

The point is that katerina is not Greek.

It is a copy of Stefov rather.

When she meets a SlavoSkopian tis trexoun ta salia !!

[Amarantos]

i think it's a fake!!!By all means!She(?) pretends to be greek,saying to fyromians all those things their ears want to hear about greece and about greeks.I think she's fyromian too.Her whole post is a fake!Her text is full of lies and inaccuracies!One can contest EVERY single frase she writes!!!Oh what a touching narration!You should put this text in the fyromian propaganda thread!
I was talking(face to face)last week with a person from fyrom,on neutral ground(see location)She told me:"well,you may be right on things you say.I don't.I know that communism brought us at this point, in poverty,and i know people in my country suffer.So i think it's the case my goverment changes attitude ,seeing that in the last 15 years they did not succed in changing anything in positive way."
Which greek,apart old communists and non-greeks,whould ever negotiate greece,its traditions,its past even if he is starving????
The prosfiges(no prosfigi as katerina calls them) even when they came to greece(my own grand parents from ANATOLIKI ROMILIA),even when they were sturving(along with the greeks they found in greek territory)took ALWAYS pride in their greek origin!
You should notice that the person i was talking to,speaks of comunism.It was the first time ever i heard a citizen of fyrom speaking of communism.ALL the others seem to have a very brief memory!

[PhiliptheUniterchaeronea]

First of all, welcome to Amarantos. We are looking forward to hearing more about your family history and listening to your insights. Your contributions are appreciated.

Now back to the matter at hand. The very name, Human Like Me, is sheer arrogance on her part. Insinuating that Hellenes think that Skopjians are less than human. Am I to believe she is a Hellene who discovers that these people are human and will awaken all Greeks to this? LOL I do not want to cut people down, but this a shameless attempt to villanize us and then appeal to our gentler Christian side to accept these people by giving them our history, partly becasue we must repent for viewing them as less than human. NO!!! NEVER!!! That is total manipulation and propaganda. So lame!!!

Guess what Katerina? We don't view these people you put at the pinacle of humanity as less than human. NO!!!! Never did we not accept them as humans, we do not accept any appropriation of our culture. Stop twisting things. Ever hear of philotimo? Just by the concept of philotimo alone we can never give up our culture and history. If you are Greek, you should be able to understand that.

[HellenicPride]

This is nothing but fyromian propoganda. Give me a break their are suckers born every minute and they know it. So they make up a character make a sob story out of it and attack us Hellenes way and at the same time morons that have no clue will be believe everything they read and support their nonsense cause which they have no right to whatsover because MACEDONIA is GREEK always has always will be.:thumbs:

[Spartan]

I'd have to agree, sounds like pure Risto to me!:mad:

I find it funny that "Katerina" was basing her ETHNICITY on her grandparents language!:lol: Come on my maternal grandmother came from Pontus and her parents spoke turkish. One difference though, they never forgot their Pontiaka! Depending on where one lived in Anatolia depended on wether or not your primary language was Turkish or Greek. There are many Greeks in Anatolia that speak only Turkish but they speak it due to the influences in their areas and due to it being the predominant language there. So no language proves ETHNICITY, the only thing it does in indicate "Which possible Ethnicity one is "!

I speak English as my primary language, so does that make me ENGLISH??

[akritas]

Spartan recently the known reporter Alexis Papahelas shows in TV a great reportage from Pontos region. Over here, there are A LOT OF PEOPLE that speak and the Pontiaka (rumi as they said!!!!!). But as usuall the Turkish policy forbitten to the people to speak theirs native language. The people were afraid to speak openly and the Greek reporters opened a lot of issue regarding the supposing Turkish consiounce.!!!
e.g. I am a Turkish citizen :eyebrow: , but I want to speak freely my language :thumbs:

[preston]

SPARTAN IS THE DIAMOND.
Thank you Sir, I mean that from the bottom of my heart, you have just touched the true Hellenism ideal, thank you!
Na se panta kala!
It is people like you that give meaning to the word TRUTH!

[Istor]

I asked Katerina to tell me "how sorry her parents felt when Greece "imposed" them to speak English, or what violence and why Greece had to do on them because of their language". :)
She never answered !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Spartan]

First off,

Thank you Preston, for your confidence in me.


Next, Akritas you are correct. That is one thing that still has never changed in Turkey. Even today there are Kurds(publicly elected representatives of their region in the Turkish parliament) who are in prison today for speaking their naitve language.

This issue can open up a whole other complicated debate over Turkey and the Human rights abuses, etc.



P.S when I was in Athens I saw a special on Euxine Pontus. It was a reporter who went to his (I believe) fathers birthplace and house where his great uncles still lived. They welcomed him with open arms and told hin that the house is his if he ever decided to return, since it was his grandfathers before the exchange.Pontus is a beautifull place and I hope to go there some day.

I especially love traditional Pontian music. It is so primal that when I hear it, the warrior in me comes to life!

[Spartan]

and she probably never will either. I have sent several e-mails to different FYROM propoganda sites and have also never recieved responses.

Thats the funny thing about those sites. There like the dog that is all bark and no bite!

[preston]

Contrary to the results of the poll so far, I will not give up on her.
She is by far the most (and only) Greek Pro-Slavomacedonian I have ever seen, that makes it very interesting.
I wonder why doesn’t she join us here on this forum? Surely she can see some interesting individuals here (it can’t be that all Greeks are pigs), surely been a Greek she knows that Greek men will stand up for her if someone insults her, surely she has the time! Why doesn’t she? Any opinions?
PS.. She also has some “kick arse” Mikrasiatikes food recipies to share !:clap2:

[akritas]

Preston
I invited her but she refused to enjoy this forum. But as I said meny times, in the last month show me the real face, Stefov-Stefou face. All the given answer from her, the personnal attack and the supposing Greek opinion in the Stefov digest clearly you can see that she is a Ferefono.

I know that she reads the forum. I invite her again to come and I will be the one that I will protect her from any personnal insults.

[preston]

I know that she reads the forum. I invite her again to come and I will be the one that I will protect her from any personnal insults.
I will too, come on Katerina, join us even if you do not like us...WE DO!:clap2:

[akritas]

I am not say "Katerina" Farewell .
I will be against YOU AND IN YOUR MENTOR, in any nationalistic and fanatic WRITING , that act in my National Heritage.

Keep in touch:)

[akritas]

Ferefono
http://www.maknews.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1130
go in your mama and tell her that my mentor (Stefou) say :

1-call you Turk
2-Greeks and "Macedonians" have diffrent colour and blood skin
3-i am not Greek (actually never you are) , I am Christian Turk

and last

I like your observations after my banned. Show me that you are a coward as your mentor.

[preston]

akrita this is the sadest posting I have ever seen!
I always knew that somehow Greece has disapointed most of its people that imigrated, but to the extend that they are behaving like this is something I can't comprehend. I feel sad for these people but ...my God...no wonder Kat and her family could not live in Greece..this is scary!

[preston]

I mean atleast these people fight for what they think is theirs...what is she fighting for? She is even using her mother now, to make her self loved by the Makedonski?

[akritas]

I am upset with her because she speaks for the name of Greece.
She is worse even and from her mentor nationalistic ideas.
Now clearly see why I was banned :read:
<<< Χρειαζόμαστε το πεδίο Ελεύθερο για να λέμε τις μαλακίες μας ώστε να κάνουμε την προπαγάνδα μας πιο "αληθινή". >>>

[preston]

When she is on her death bed many years from now, not being able to talk or move, it will be too late for her to take it all back. What regret that will be. How much of her son's heritage will she give.



My father, a fit and healthy man of 72, had suddenly had a stroke. .....
As he stared with vacant eyes at my son, who talked to him in English, it was evident he could not understand him. He could no longer understand his former second language. My son, named after him and terribly close to him all his life, looked at me in grief.
I stroked my father's forehead, kissed it, and told him in his native Greek tongue "everything will be ok".
His eyes briefly lit up and even though he could not speak at that moment I knew he understood me.

That quote of yours about her and hers about her father's ordeal has stuck in my head...how would she go when her time comes?...would she be like her father at the last moment or not? Hard comment but true as how she has betrayed even her own father! Sad!!

[preston]

Akrita, do not even think about her and all of them. Remember how me and Florina were banned? No reason, just goooone. Never posted offensive language never acted wrong, my forum with News on their site had reached 5000 views…oops…that’s when they realized that me and Florina were a danger to their propaganda…lol…let them act like that, they will only achieve to be alone.,..that’s fine with me!
Otan vroun ta skoura ...trehoun!!!! lol

[Melbourne]

I believe Truth Bearer can shed some light. Apparently she is a confused lonely lady in Melbourne whom happened to be married to an Italian man whom belted her.

Stefov and co befriended her and she lives on MakNews H24...

On another note people, it is interesting how deafeningly silent the MakNews forum is in relation to the latest archeological finds!

[akritas]

It's true Preston. Actually both of you banned after Stefou suggestion

[Amarantos]

Everything that has to do with the "human like me" thing is a fake.
I already wrote that it says to fyromians all the things their ears want to hear.I was slightly wrong,because beside this,it also tries to influence Greeks.Reading its articles,one can find various psychological pressure meccanisms based often on blackmail.It's likely to find a psychology degree,to the author of the articles who stands behind the hlm name.Propaganda always used such means.
It is definitely non greek.I never heard one Greek refering to Constantinopole like it does.Using former ahead.Obviously it is influenced by the former yugoslav republic of ,used for its country,and it thinks that Greeks refer to things like that:lol: .Nevertheless one has to acknowledge that it tried to study greek history and manners.
I send to all a poem i like,extremely suitable for the case



A Prince From Western Libya

Aristomenis, son of Menelaos,
the Prince from Western Libya,
was generally liked in Alexandria
during the ten days he spent there.
In keeping with his name, his dress was also suitably Greek.
He received honours gladly,
but he didn't solicit them; he was unassuming.
He bought Greek books,
especially history and philosophy.
Above all he was a man of few words.
It got around that he must be a profound thinker,
and men like that naturally don't speak very much.

He wasn't a profound thinker or anything at all--
just a piddling, laughable man.
He assumed a Greek name, dressed like the Greeks,
learned to behave more or less like a Greek;
and all the time he was terrified he'd spoil
his reasonably good image
by coming out with barbaric howlers in Greek
and the Alexandrians, in their usual way,
would start to make fun of him, vile people that they are.


This was why he limited himself to a few words,
terribly careful of his syntax and pronunciation;
and he was driven almost out of his mind, having
so much talk bottled up inside him.

Constantine P. Cavafy



...maybe one can find in the above the reason why it doesn't show up here

[Orphic_Hymn]

Everything that has to do with the "human like me" thing is a fake.

It is definitely non greek.I never heard one Greek refering to Constantinopole like it does.Using former ahead.Obviously it is influenced by the former yugoslav republic of ,used for its country,and it thinks that Greeks refer to things like that:lol:


I totally agree, besides the 'former' crack that all former inhabitants of Konstantinoupoli continue to call 'Poli', we could also note :

"She always called it Turkish food as she cooked from her grandmother's recipes. "
She or Ristov, obviously never heard of the term 'politiki' deriving from the very name they used for Konstantinoupoli..

"which was under Ottoman occupation because their choices were to either convert to Islam or die."

Another inconsistancy, beside the fact that the Ottomans had been desolved and the 'Young Turks' had taken over.. Konstandinoupoli was exempted from the population exchange...

" Even though they were Christians the only language they spoke was Turkish."

The only recorded 'people' to have arrived and ignored the Hellinic lang. were the Karamanlides, that lived deep in Central Anatolia in the Karaman region ..

"I had read, however, that in this era Byzantium was under Roman occupation."

She's (or he's) obviously reading all the wrong books also...


If one was to spend time on this little propaganda article, you could literally take it all apart and point out the continuous inconsistencies and the obvious propaganda in a futile effort to attack everything Hellinic..
I honestly wonder why she/he didn't get into the Myceneans being of Slavic origin..

[akritas]

Preston
I will make a bet with you:clapping:
Ferefono in the next article will be has a subject
Greeks are Blacks :thumbs:

[preston]

Preston
I will make a bet with you:clapping:
Ferefono in the next article will be has a subject
Greeks are Blacks :thumbs:

:read: let's see.

[preston]

:There is much evidence in Greek literature, that Ancient Greeks were morphologically diverse...but I will quote from the Old Oligarch's "Constitution of the Athenians" written betweem 446-424BC because it gives us a good picture of the diversity that made up the Ancient Athenian world.

QUOTE:
'If the law permitted a free man to strike a slave or freedman, he would often find that he had mistaken an Athenian for a slave and struck him, for, so far as clothing and general appearance are concerned, the common people [o demos] look just the same as the slaves and metics.'

Were the ancient Athenian citizens, of a different physical type than their slaves?
Obviously not, despite the fact that the slaves, were either greek, or of
neighboring lands. In ancient Athens, at the height of its power, the common people (the 'demos') were indistinguishable, physically from 'metics', (foreign-born) and slaves.
Does this mean that all the slaves that were acquired from foreign conquests, as well as foreigners to Athens were ALL Greek to begin with? That's irrational.
The Athenians could have ONLY shared 'general' appearance, with slaves and foreigners IF THEY WERE A MULTI-ETHNIC MIX OF PEOPLE IN THE FIRST PLACE. Take that another step further, and with this first observation, it is unavoidable to conclude that these people who were indistinguishable amongst the Athenian mix, also had various cultures amongst them, and obviously DIFFERENT languages. Were these different languages discovered written in Athens, anywhere?
No.
Because they weren't found in their written form, however, every shred of logic dictates that DIFFERENT LANGUAGES WERE SPOKEN IN ATHENS. How could it not be so, if Athens contained slaves and foreign-born? It is exactly the same, in the case of Ancient Macedonia, that there is no inconclusive evidence proving that the ancient Macedonians were NATIVE Greek speakers, as they were using the lingua franca of their time to gain power...and that is as much as can be argued to be true.
They were one ethnicity among many, in an ancient civilization, of great significance and contribution.
The odds that they spoke their own native language, as Bar-bar-oi: meaning to stutter, in Greek, therefore making unintelligible sounds to Greek ears is overwhelmingly logical to deduce...

Please also note that the philosophy of 'dualism', is depicted in most ancient Macedonian depictions of their folklore and mythology. It is considered 'Slavic'. Look at the Slavic pantheon.
The philosopher responsible for writing about dualism was Aristotle. The tutor that was hand-picked by Philip himself, to teach his son Alexander...


Kat
This is scary....how can anyone manipulate the facts that

Slaves were an honoured part of Athenian society,
accepted as just an other social class next to peasents and aristocrats,
be granted liberties unheard off among the barbarians,
slaves that were free to educate them selves and produce great philosophers of the ancient Hellenic world,
slaves that their rights were secured by the Athenian constitution..


....in to this propagandist blabber?...these people are totally sick in the head and she is weird :withstupi !
PS: Also note how interestingly the word "physical" is added...lol!

[terastios]

After all these days of reading i just voted!

A fake person created by the site's admins....DONT ASK ME WHY!

[Florina]

Lol Terastios Human like me is not a fake person!


But since I know that all from the other forum come here to read,,,and I will add I dont go...that time i spent in there was enough..I AM WHERE I BELONG!!

SO TO ALL THE PEOPLE FROM THAT FORUM GET A LIFE...AND STOP TRYING TO TAKE OURS...YOU CAN NEVER HAVE SOMETHING THAT IS NOT YOURS......MAKEDONIA AND ITS HISTORY IS GREECE'S NOW AND FOREVER!!

SO GET YOUR OWN COUNTRY AND IF ITS EXTENDING IT THAT YOU WISH TO DO,,EXTEND IT TOWARDS BULGARIA,SERBIA,,RUSSIA,,COZ THATS YOUR BACKGROUND!

STOP TRYING TO TAKE LAND THAT WE HAVE..IT IS NEVER GONNA HAPPEN!!


CIAO

Florina

[Orphic_Hymn]

What do you expect when these people resort to copy/pasting of Arthur Kemps 'March of the Titans' ???

A idiot Nordisist that promotes white superiority crap and believes anyone not blonde and blue-eyed is nothing but a mongrel and a disgrace to the 'superior' white race..
I honestly wonder if this idiot looked up who he/she is quoting and would love to know if he/she classifies as 'white' according to Kemp's agenda..

I can now state that I HAVE SEEN IT ALL !!!

Besides, what neither Kemp nor our dear friend here noticed, is that while we know of "metoikoi" being of foreign origin, the vast majority were Hellines from other Hellinic cities..

As J.W. Roberts in his "CITY OF SOKRATES An Introduction to Classical Athens" (p.30) tells us :

"Most metics were Greeks from nearby cities, but Thracians, Phrygians, Lydians, Syrians and other barbaroi were not unknown (Xenophon, Revenues 2.3). What brought them all to Athens? Some were exiles, victims of political necessity, but most came voluntarily, to share in the economic advantages of a populous city and a thriving port."

So Athens then, is not much different to what we see now.
The vast majority of the population being Hellinic "metoikoi" from other areas of Hellas and a part of the population being comprised of people from various nations like : Pakistan, Albania, Romania, Bulgaria... etc, hell even FYROM, looking for a little sun in their lives..

As for his Slavic Pantheon...:withstupi

[preston]

:withstupi Ante tora na katalavoun to megalio to elinismou, Metikos..Metiki...Metics...hrisimopioun arhea ellinika gia na apodixoun oti den imaste ellines, ke emis ta katalavenoume apo genisimiou mas, ke afti katalavenoun to dodekatheo ton slavon. Re pou blexame me ta zoa?

[akritas]

Ferefono my answer regarding geometry is here

http://www.macedoniaontheweb.com/forum/showthread.php?t=87

and I shall remind you in the case that you are not informed I was banned after your mentor suggestion

Many Greeks and philhellenes have told me that they believe that the Greeks INVENTED Geometry. Since you [Akritas, a maknews.com forum member defending the Greek position] believe that you are more informed than most, give the impression that you disagree but at the same time you also agree.
http://www.maknews.com/html/articles/stefov/digest_3.html


You and your mentor appeared a lot of times after my ban. And continuisly to said my name without of course to get your proper answer.

[pankration]

Sorry my friends...I somehow got posted to the wrong page. Hopefully someone can move this to the proper page.


I had to read the article twice to catch all the subtleties in "Katerina's" story. She makes odd claims like not knowing her Turkish history. Pick up a book. The Ottoman Empire was around for 400 years--there's plenty of history there. The Romans may have created Constantinople but the Roman Empire as we know it had ceased to exist by the time the Byzantines hit their peak. She also implies that the Greeks somehow conquered, tricked or manipulated their way into being the dominant culture of the Byzantine Empire. That's quite amusing as by that time, Greece was but a shadow of her former glory. Maybe the reason the Byzantines were so "Greek" was because it was Greek Christians (including the Greek Jew, St. Paul) who spread Christianity. Maybe because Agia Sofia was the center of our Orthodox faith. Maybe because the Hellenic culture was so superior to everything else that even the Islamic conquerors could not usurp the culture, language or faith.
I'm not aware that Greece runs a Nazi regime. From what I read and watch on every news service I can access, Greece remains a democracy and protects free speech. It is however ludicrous, especially in Europe, to expect any country to provide a government-sponsored public education in the languages of its minorities. If the SlavoMacedonians (I don't even know what to call these people anymore) want that type of instruction have them open private schools like they do everywhere else in the world. Coming from the multicultural capital of the world, I can tell you that the people here, be they Asian, Black, English, French or Greek etc. do NOT consider themselves multi-ethnic unless they have mixed blood. They are Canadian by residence but they remain I believe ethnic by culture and genetics.
I don't know if "Katerina" is a fake. But lamenting us with a sob story of finding her humanity because a few people shook her hand is emotional manipulation at its worst. Half-assed facts disguised as historical revelation sickens me. As for this story...misguided at best, propaganda at worst.

[PhiliptheUniterchaeronea]

...


But since I know that all from the other forum come here to read,,,and I will add I dont go...that time i spent in there was enough..I AM WHERE I BELONG!!

SO TO ALL THE PEOPLE FROM THAT FORUM GET A LIFE...AND STOP TRYING TO TAKE OURS...YOU CAN NEVER HAVE SOMETHING THAT IS NOT YOURS......MAKEDONIA AND ITS HISTORY IS GREECE'S NOW AND FOREVER!!

SO GET YOUR OWN COUNTRY AND IF ITS EXTENDING IT THAT YOU WISH TO DO,,EXTEND IT TOWARDS BULGARIA,SERBIA,,RUSSIA,,COZ THATS YOUR BACKGROUND!

STOP TRYING TO TAKE LAND THAT WE HAVE..IT IS NEVER GONNA HAPPEN!!


CIAO

Florina


You have to love the passion. Way to go Florina.

As for the Slavs, ya, we all know they are here, but I say too much now. lol Maybe the Slavophone Greeks will come home and as for the Slavs themselves, you summed it up so very very well.

Pankration, you know what is going on as well. Thanks to both of you, in fact, to all of you.

[Makedonia25]

I was watching a documentary the other day on foxtel and there were a bunch of black american students with their teacher who were all discussing illiterally the possibility of Cleopatra being black... :lol: :lol: :lol:

And I was thinking, maybe I should make a banner for the Australia vs Greece game saying:

"ALEXANDER IS SKOPJEAN, CLEOPATRA WAS BLACK... WHATS NEXT???"

:clapping: :clap2: :thumbs:

[PhiliptheUniterchaeronea]

There is a rumour that the Spartans are Jewish so King Leonidas can go on your list. :blink: :unsure: :lol:

[Orphic_Hymn]

There's also that Turkish dude named Homer..


or was it Omer ??? :rolleyes:

[akritas]

Bernal , Diop AND James are the favour sources of ferefono and hers Mentor as about the afroecentrism theory. Of course both of them forget to show in theirs public what the supporters of this theory said regarding the ancient Macedonian history.

The purpose of history is to promote not group self-esteem, but understanding of the world and the past, dispassionate analysis, judgment and perspective, respect for divergent cultures and traditions, and unflinching protection for those unifying ideas of tolerance, democracy, and human rights that make free historical inquiry possible.

And Both of them with their lies hypnotize the FYROMians copatriots

[admin]

Lets not waste our time.... these are the people that made up a "ancient letter" from Alexander to Aristotle remember?....

[admin]

Sorry my friends...I somehow got posted to the wrong page. Hopefully someone can move this to the proper page.


I had to read the article twice to catch all the subtleties in "Katerina's" story. She makes odd claims like not knowing her Turkish history. Pick up a book. The Ottoman Empire was around for 400 years--there's plenty of history there. The Romans may have created Constantinople but the Roman Empire as we know it had ceased to exist by the time the Byzantines hit their peak. She also implies that the Greeks somehow conquered, tricked or manipulated their way into being the dominant culture of the Byzantine Empire. That's quite amusing as by that time, Greece was but a shadow of her former glory. Maybe the reason the Byzantines were so "Greek" was because it was Greek Christians (including the Greek Jew, St. Paul) who spread Christianity. Maybe because Agia Sofia was the center of our Orthodox faith. Maybe because the Hellenic culture was so superior to everything else that even the Islamic conquerors could not usurp the culture, language or faith.
I'm not aware that Greece runs a Nazi regime. From what I read and watch on every news service I can access, Greece remains a democracy and protects free speech. It is however ludicrous, especially in Europe, to expect any country to provide a government-sponsored public education in the languages of its minorities. If the SlavoMacedonians (I don't even know what to call these people anymore) want that type of instruction have them open private schools like they do everywhere else in the world. Coming from the multicultural capital of the world, I can tell you that the people here, be they Asian, Black, English, French or Greek etc. do NOT consider themselves multi-ethnic unless they have mixed blood. They are Canadian by residence but they remain I believe ethnic by culture and genetics.
I don't know if "Katerina" is a fake. But lamenting us with a sob story of finding her humanity because a few people shook her hand is emotional manipulation at its worst. Half-assed facts disguised as historical revelation sickens me. As for this story...misguided at best, propaganda at worst.

Excellent views... it is a sad story made by a sad person... :rolleyes:

[Euklid]

I feel i have to put my input here as well.

I went last night in there maybe for the first time in my life, after seeing all this nice gems in here, i thought "hey lets go have a laugh".

So i searched for the Greek related thread and i came with "Greece listed a full democracy".

After her supposed referenced article that the report appraising Greece by the Economist is biased, therefore Greece has no merits, on the gorund that nominally Japan is less democratic than Greece but is listed higher....similar to the Fyromian argument the Thracians used the greek letters as well, therefore Macedonia cannot be Greek, parroting; she received a reply from Olympias.

She was using the catchy psychological tricks to embarce humanism and stuff and said:

Just look at all those Greek nationalists out there as located by Risto the Great and gave a link.

I clicked the link and found out that Risto was giving orders to the member to log in to specific forums and "take care", the Greek propagandists.

And i thought to myself, man this woman is either Risto with the maknews forum admin combined so that he avoids syntax errors, or is just a very very sad woman, with a very unpleasant backgroung from Greece.

In any case, i troubled my mind and today i went back there looking for more, evidently i realized that she does have many Risto theories copy/pasted in her head.

Also, when Hypaspistes pointed out her fictionality, she took off the sugar-coating and revealed the offensive side..similar to "The Risto the Great has spoken" et al.

In any case, i feel sorry for all these guys in there, who in their attempt to legitimize their artificial ethnicity, they see everyone and everybody to be artificial, therefore equal to them.

SAD, very sad.

[Dikigoros1981]

Ah yes, when I was on maknews almost a year ago, before I was banned, "she" was trying to find out who I was etc via private messages which have been saved. Asking me cryptic questions as to whether i'm a student of Latrobe University (which I must say I am not). Furthermore the writing style with paragraphs indented etc keeps the character unique, hilarious stuff really. Oh and the arvanite/asia minor background etc etc, fits in wonderfully well with the general position maintained on that forum hehe. I found the "character" of the maknews motion picture hilarious. "She" is whipped out from time to time to combat complex posters. If "it", the character, fails, then it simply disappears for a couple of weeks/months lol. There is an interesting poster on maknews currently by the nickname zmija, which I have actually been linked to. I find it funny that I still have a fan club on that website from close to a year ago now. Shows the paranoia of the folk.

I tend to read some of the materials on maknews, for my whole system is banned from even registering a nickname lol. Nevertheless this zmija character, who has a background from monastiri with educated parents was approached by "human" in posts yet his own personal human attitude towards the world led to her disappearance. It was as if this "zmija's" personality could not be tackled by the heavy "human" arsenal so the standard folk reverted to punishing the guy.

Dikigoros1981

[preston]

wow, this is a blast from the past. Where did you people find this forum?...lol...I used to think she is a real one but after having shared information in regards to her aproaches to Greek members ...she is not. Stefov an Uzounofskis are very clever cookies...and the majority of their members fall for it. It is amazing how voulchers feed on these peoples sad past, from the "Father Tsarknias" sceme in Melbourne to pocket money not to cyber space "by my books" and you are a Macedonian. Sad !

[HellenicPride]

Lol Terastios Human like me is not a fake person!


But since I know that all from the other forum come here to read,,,and I will add I dont go...that time i spent in there was enough..I AM WHERE I BELONG!!

SO TO ALL THE PEOPLE FROM THAT FORUM GET A LIFE...AND STOP TRYING TO TAKE OURS...YOU CAN NEVER HAVE SOMETHING THAT IS NOT YOURS......MAKEDONIA AND ITS HISTORY IS GREECE'S NOW AND FOREVER!!

SO GET YOUR OWN COUNTRY AND IF ITS EXTENDING IT THAT YOU WISH TO DO,,EXTEND IT TOWARDS BULGARIA,SERBIA,,RUSSIA,,COZ THATS YOUR BACKGROUND!

STOP TRYING TO TAKE LAND THAT WE HAVE..IT IS NEVER GONNA HAPPEN!!


CIAO

Florina

Hahahaha you should be in comedy. We dont want your land nor are we using your land. We have our land its the name that you are using that we have a problem with whoever you actually are.

[preston]

Hahahaha you should be in comedy. We dont want your land nor are we using your land. We have our land its the name that you are using that we have a problem with whoever you actually are.
I think you quoted the wrong person :wacko: ...Florina is one of us talking to them.;)