Bulgaria - a Balkan ally?

[Draco]

I've often wondered, who is Greece's closest and most proximate ally? Albania, FYROM and Turkey are definitely out, this leaves Bulgaria. There's no doubt that on the mainstream official level relations are excellent, but what about how the two peoples view each other? Greece and Bulgaria have long had territorial claims on each other's territory (Greece for Eastern Rumelia, Bulgaria for Macedonia and later Thrace), and in fact Greece claimed Eastern Rumelia at the Paris Peace Conference after World War I and France supported it (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:ParisPeace-Venizelos-Map.png). In the end though, the Treaty of Neuilly was signed and Greece got Western Thrace and conducted a population exchange with Bulgaria eliminating any chance for each country to be able to raise a reasonable territorial claim to the regions again. Greece has given up irredentist aspirations, however Bulgarian nationalists have not. The reason for this are the Slavophone Greeks and Pomaks, which Bulgarians regard as Bulgarians. Naturally, Bulgarians haven't got a chance trying anything funny with them, but the anti-Greek hostility in certain Bulgarian nationalist circles remains.

Greek and Bulgarian foreign policy have common ground in their relations with FYROM and Turkey, as both countries are highly skeptical of FYROM's version of history (also, see this (http://www.focus-fen.net/index.php?id=n101153)) and both have significant Turkish minorities near to the Turkish border.

Here are some interesting documents on GR-BG relations.

Bilateral relations between Greece and Bulgaria (http://www.ypex.gov.gr/www.mfa.gr/en-US/Policy/Geographic+Regions/South-Eastern+Europe/Balkans/Bilateral+Relations/Bulgaria/) according to the Greek YPEX
Relations with Yugoslavia, Romania, Greece and Turkey (http://www.country-studies.com/bulgaria/relations-with-yugoslavia,-romania,-greece-and-turkey.html) according to the Library of Congress Country Study on Bulgaria
Macedonian Heritage - Opinion: "Bulgaria and Greece" by Lambros Kalarrytis (http://www.macedonian-heritage.gr/Opinion/comm_20011124Kalarrytis.html)

[tankistabg]

I've often wondered, who is Greece's closest and most proximate ally? Albania, FYROM and Turkey are definitely out, this leaves Bulgaria. There's no doubt that on the mainstream official level relations are excellent, but what about how the two peoples view each other? Greece and Bulgaria have long had territorial claims on each other's territory (Greece for Eastern Rumelia, Bulgaria for Macedonia and later Thrace), and in fact Greece claimed Eastern Rumelia at the Paris Peace Conference after World War I and France supported it (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:ParisPeace-Venizelos-Map.png). In the end though, the Treaty of Neuilly was signed and Greece got Western Thrace and conducted a population exchange with Bulgaria eliminating any chance for each country to be able to raise a reasonable territorial claim to the regions again. Greece has given up irredentist aspirations, however Bulgarian nationalists have not. The reason for this are the Slavophone Greeks and Pomaks, which Bulgarians regard as Bulgarians. Naturally, Bulgarians haven't got a chance trying anything funny with them, but the anti-Greek hostility in certain Bulgarian nationalist circles remains.

Greek and Bulgarian foreign policy have common ground in their relations with FYROM and Turkey, as both countries are highly skeptical of FYROM's version of history (also, see this (http://www.focus-fen.net/index.php?id=n101153)) and both have significant Turkish minorities near to the Turkish border.

Here are some interesting documents on GR-BG relations.

Bilateral relations between Greece and Bulgaria (http://www.ypex.gov.gr/www.mfa.gr/en-US/Policy/Geographic+Regions/South-Eastern+Europe/Balkans/Bilateral+Relations/Bulgaria/) according to the Greek YPEX
Relations with Yugoslavia, Romania, Greece and Turkey (http://www.country-studies.com/bulgaria/relations-with-yugoslavia,-romania,-greece-and-turkey.html) according to the Library of Congress Country Study on Bulgaria
Macedonian Heritage - Opinion: "Bulgaria and Greece" by Lambros Kalarrytis (http://www.macedonian-heritage.gr/Opinion/comm_20011124Kalarrytis.html)


Bulgarians are friedly to greeks!

We know that you are the only one who would support us in a war with Turkey! So in order to stop Turks, we must be united.

[Teukros]

Bulgarians are friedly to greeks!

We know that you are the only one who would support us in a war with Turkey! So in order to stop Turks, we must be united.
Do you really believe that a war can brake out?

[tankistabg]

Do you really believe that a war can brake out?

anything is possible. We have to be prepare

If you want peace, prepare for war

;)

[Draco]

A war breaking out seems highly unlikely. I'm talking about diplomatic support (like in the FOCUS news article I linked to in my first post).

[Tsontos]

There are many possiblities for prompting a war between Turkey and Greece, but what are the issues between Bulgaria and Turkey tankistabg?

Bulgarian and Greek interests are entirely consistent imo and a tacit alliance already exists.

[Lakonian]

The bottom line is you need to find out if there is actualy treaty between Bulgaria and Greece if one of the where to go to war with Turkey rather than analysing hypothetical scenarios although they are all plausible.

There are many treaty's that could be signed by us, then again what the status of them? Is there a withdrawl policy?

I seriously have never heard of Treaty with any of the balkan neighbours when it comes to war or the FYROM issue.

The last official treaty of Greece was its civil war.

The Balkan pact which was signed in the 30's never held out obviously because of WWII, and we wouldnt of had the Cyprus issue aswell.

And i might add that Bulgarian's still have a firm belief that Thrace belongs to them.

There are many roads but i wouldnt hold on to the string that Bulgaria is our good friend because of the FYROM issue. Although its help for us, they have there own agendas.

Then again i could be wrong as countries in the EU have a binding. Is Bulgaria an official member? Or is it in process of being official?

Its going to be very interesting when it comes time to veto FYROM and see what Bulgaria swings the same bat.

[Rhino]

As a whole, the Bulgarians are friendly to the Greeks. In any case, there is no reason for us to be afraid of Greece, just the opposite. I think that the alliance between Greece and Bulgaria in many areas is both useful and possible.

There are some problems, of course. In Greece, there is the problem of the so-called Slavophone Greeks. In fact, most of them are Bulgarians by nationality but I don't think that will be hamper the relations between both countries. The conscience of this population is not Bulgarian any more. On the other hand, some Bulgarians have been worried because of the traditional good relations between Greece and Serbia, which is our historical rival in the last 150 years.

[Draco]

On the other hand, some Bulgarians have been worried because of the traditional good relations between Greece and Serbia, which is our historical rival in the last 150 years.
The current relations between Greece and Serbia are based on the following maxim: Greece gives and Serbia takes.

Don't get me wrong, I think GR and SR should have good relations, but as far as I can tell, the only Serbs who like Greeks are the ultranationalist ones (the ones who say "we're proud of Srebrenica, Mladic should be pardoned etc"). Mainstream and leftist Serbs seem to be more pro-FYROM than pro-Greek.

[Christov]

anything is possible. We have to be prepare



;)Oh, come on!

[Petros Houhoulis]

As a whole, the Bulgarians are friendly to the Greeks. In any case, there is no reason for us to be afraid of Greece, just the opposite. I think that the alliance between Greece and Bulgaria in many areas is both useful and possible.

There are some problems, of course. In Greece, there is the problem of the so-called Slavophone Greeks. In fact, most of them are Bulgarians by nationality but I don't think that will be hamper the relations between both countries. The conscience of this population is not Bulgarian any more. On the other hand, some Bulgarians have been worried because of the traditional good relations between Greece and Serbia, which is our historical rival in the last 150 years.

Well, No citizen of Greece can be a "national Bulgarian", unless if he/she has dual nationality.

There are some people in Central and Eastern Macedonia who have Bulgarian ancestry but still consider themselves as ethnic Greeks. The other fellas in Western Macedonia do not really have Bulgarian roots - Bulgaria had scarcely ever extended so far - and thus play the "Macedonist" game. Both of these groups are too small to be considered important by any means. The recent immigrants from Bulgaria into Greece outnumber both of them...

[Petros Houhoulis]

As a whole, the Bulgarians are friendly to the Greeks. In any case, there is no reason for us to be afraid of Greece, just the opposite. I think that the alliance between Greece and Bulgaria in many areas is both useful and possible.

There are some problems, of course. In Greece, there is the problem of the so-called Slavophone Greeks. In fact, most of them are Bulgarians by nationality but I don't think that will be hamper the relations between both countries. The conscience of this population is not Bulgarian any more. On the other hand, some Bulgarians have been worried because of the traditional good relations between Greece and Serbia, which is our historical rival in the last 150 years.

Well, Rhino, your Bulgarians are those who are spreading the most blatant lies for Greece, going as far as to support the Turks in Cyprus and elsewhere. Just take a look in there:

The Phoenician Inscription of Edessa in MacedoniaÂ* Η Φοινικική επιγραφή της Εδεσσας στην & (http://www.bulgarmak.org/phoenician_inscription.htm)

Half of the Bulgarmak.org are blatant lies and half-truths.

The Bulgarian nationals who live in Greece have arrived here less than 20 years or so, and if they were mistreated in here, they would never come to us. Some others who lived in Greece prior to that are not ethnic Bulgarians, with the exception of a few in Eastern Macedonia, like my native Serres. Nevertheless, even these few do not harbour pro-Bulgarian feelings.

Either you like it or not, we are not likely to sell the Serbs for your sake. The reason? If we sell our allies so easily, none would like to get allied to us. You have to understand that we have to keep our word to the end, for as much as we can. We have to be reliable and not change side in every conceivable occasion. We need to have CREDIBILITY.

[Rhino]

Petros Houhoulis, I agree with u that the Slav-speaking population of Greece don't harbour pro-Bulgarian feelings. That's exactly what I have said:
"The conscience of this population is not Bulgarian any more".

Thanks for this site, it was unknown to me. I will examine it and say what I think of it.

As concerns Serbia, I don't think that Greece should "sell" her friendly relations with this country at the expense of Bulgaria. But u have to understand that Serbia has been traditional enemy of Bulgaria for many decades and even centuries. Even Hristo Botev, our greatest national poet, whote articles full of disgust because of the ultranationalistic behaviour of the Serbian political leaders and their intelligenzia. And we should not forget that it was the Serbian intellectuals Novakovich and Cviich who gave birth to the idea of the Macedonian nationality as different from the Bulgarian. The Comintern leaders put in effect and the whole FYROM propaganda is now based on it.

What's more, the Serbians developed the idea of "Shop" nationality as different from Bulgarian for the Bulgarian population living east and west of the Serbian-Bulgarian border in the Sofia region.

[Victor]

BUt those days are gone between you and SErbia today,arent they?

[Rhino]

BUt those days are gone between you and SErbia today,arent they?

Yes, but the suspicion remains. And there is still a Bulgarian minority of 23,000 people in Serbia the rights of which have been even more restricted then they were during the Communist rule of Yugoslavia.