American and European Hypocrisy

[akritas]

FYROM officials yesterday announced that Canada decide to recognized them with under constitunal name. Officials at the Canadian embassies in FYROM and Greece as the UK and US at the past were not immediately available for comment.

Why you hide Canadians?

The name is one of the most emotive foreign policy issues in Greece. Macedonia is also the name of Greece's northern province, birthplace of Alexander the Great.

As Macedonian Greek I would like to express my humble but proud opinion regarding the issue.

FYROM’s political world is in all likelihood ready to accept a double name formula. This is a formula in which, drawing on the proposals of the ICG, Greece would use a “non-problematical” name and international recognition within the framework of the UN based on the name “Republic of Macedonia.” Twelve years after the signing of the Interim Accord, the government in Skopje seems to believe that it is approaching achievement of a goal very close to the one it had originally set when the name dispute began in 1991. Now, the FYROM side is exploiting the inopportune and ‘unfair’ US recognition of its constitutional name to continue its foot-dragging, and has restricted itself to offering the formula of the ‘double name’—one for Greece and one for the rest of the world—in the knowledge that no Greek politician will accept a solution that puts his country in a position of international ‘apartheid.’

FYROM is monopolistically claiming titles, both geographical and historical. Long ago, in the evil days of Hitler, the British Prime Minister, Neville Chamberlain, described Czechoslovakia as 'a far-away country' of whose people 'we know nothing'. The same tragic error might easily be made today concering Macedonia.

How well known is it in the West that there are two Macedonias, separated by a common frontier?

How many know that the northern mini-Macedonia, known officially at the present as the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia, has a seat at the United Nations, whereas the southern mega-Macedonia does not, because it is not a 'nation- state' but only a province of Greece?

How many have noticed that the acronym FYROM is already relapsing into 'Macedonia' tout court, so that its representative in New York will soon sit behind a tablet simply inscribed 'Macedonia', thus implying that his state alone can rightly claim a Macedonian identity?

This upstart mini-Macedonia is a product of the terrible conflict which is described from many writers like the Professor John Koliopoulos (Plundered Loyalities) or known British officers Chris Woodhouse and Hammond. It did not appear as Macedonia on any map before the Second World War. It is a landlocked area with no natural boundaries. Its population, apart from the usual Balkan minorities, is mainly Slavonic and Albanian.

As 'Macedonia' it was a creation of Tito, to provide a launching-pad from which to invade and take over the real Macedonia in northern Greece. The real Macedonia, on the other hand, has a history of at least three millennia: it was the homeland of Alexander the Great; the first country in Europe to which St Paul was invited to 'come over and help us'; the mainstay of-the Allied defense against Mussolini in 1940, when (as we chose to put it) Britain 'stood alone'; and the birthplace of modern Greece's outstanding Politician, Constantinos Kararnanlis.

From the very beginning of FYROM'S independence, Greece declared it had no claims on FYROM'S territory. Greece's only serious grievance was, and still is, the use by FYROM of the name "Macedonia" and its derivatives.

Europeans and the Americans have not been very helpful on this matter. They never seriously considered the fact that the People's Republic of Macedonia was the only Stalin and Tito achievement that the West declared preservable, though there is no blame for declaring the small enclave viable. The blame is for disregarding facts, brushing aside the available historical data to punish Greece, as if Greece were the instigator of this vexing Balkan event. If history had meant anything to the Europeans and Americans, they should have discouraged Skopje at the outset from using the name "Macedonia." FYROM does not have the right to acquire, by international recognition, an advantage enjoyed by no other state in the world: to use a name which of itself propagandizes territorial aspiratioils."

Cappelli (1997), discussing the Bosnian question, appropriately pointed out that "international recognition by no means necessarily endows a state with legitimacy, especially when the recognition has been granted in such an impetuous manner in the midst of a crisis and if legitimacy is held to have any connection with a common history and a sense of common destiny as characteristics of the state's population, without which no state can survive." Every word of this statement on Bosnia applies to FYROM.

Greek people and specially the Macedonians as the undersigned, asks fYROM to adhere to its UN agreement and stop its schools and others from irredentist teachings, such as that northern Greece should be part of their country. As well, the Greek people l urges fYROM to adhere to UN and EU policy and reach agreement with Greece on a name for their new country – one that does not encourage fYROM irredentism

Bilateral recognitions models show that behind the reality is the hypocrisy, a behaviour common among the old West world.

[danielmaco]

The only hypocrisy on show here is the Greek government and their continued denial of the ethnic Macedonian minority. The Greek government must stop their policies of forced assimilation and denationalisation for their ethnic Macedonian minorities. The Greek government should immediately recognise the fundamental human and national rights for the ethnic Macedonians as guaranteed by the United Nations Declaration. The Macedonian language should be taught at all levels of the educational system. Allow the return of all exiled ethnic Macedonians immigrants who were born in Greece. Only then can Greece be a proper democracy.

[Teukros]

The only hypocrisy on show here is the Greek government and their continued denial of the ethnic Macedonian minority. The Greek government must stop their policies of forced assimilation and denationalisation for their ethnic Macedonian minorities. The Greek government should immediately recognise the fundamental human and national rights for the ethnic Macedonians as guaranteed by the United Nations Declaration. The Macedonian language should be taught at all levels of the educational system. Allow the return of all exiled ethnic Macedonians immigrants who were born in Greece. Only then can Greece be a proper democracy.
That's only in your dreams.There is no such a thing only slavophone Greeks.if you want democracy then why don't you recognize the 250000 Greeks who live in your state?Maybe I should remind you that your state is only a propectorate.Do you know that the people to whom you reffer are traitors to their state?So why should they return?

[Amarantos]

The only hypocrisy on show here is the Greek government and their continued denial of the "ethnic Macedonian" minority.

No macedonian minority can be considered in Macedonia. This is common logic, reasonable thinking, people from the ex yugoslav republic obviously lack of.

Allow the return of all exiled "ethnic Macedonians" immigrants who were born in Greece.

On 29.12.1982 the greek government conceded the free repatriation of all political refugees of the greek civil war, the vast majority of which had collaborated with other communist countries/governments of europe, attempting to subvert the legal government of the greek state with the aim to establish a communist regime. All greek people born in greece came back to their birth places, moreover enjoying privilages granted by the socialist government of that time (1982).
Lies like this one proposed by "danielmaco" and cheap propaganda are of common use by skopjan propagandists.

Only then can Greece be a proper democracy.

This sounds funny, considering the fact that the country which accepted to be called as FYROM is the perfect sample when analyzing social and political discrimination of minorities in the frame of a state. Discriminations that brought to the well known Albanian-FYROMian conflict back in 2001.

[Lakonian]

Yep, arrogance is the way of your people. That is why you are who are....lucky for us...it prooves further how distant you are from being anywhere as close or civilised as us.

[akritas]

Greek people doesnt have problem with the people that want to self-determinate as Macedonian.

WE have problem with the name of the State primarily, and secondly, with the nationalist policy of this State.

A State that half of the population, is not identify as Slav Macedonian but as Albanian, Turkish, Torbeshi, Romanina-Vlach, Bulgarian, Greek e.t.c..And the most worst think is that the 1/3 of the territory is calling from the Albanian as Illyrida and the local authorities are not FYROMacedonian but Albanians and of coorse are not allowed to enter-stay to these territories .

At present, FYROM appears stable on the surface, thanks to the presence of the United Nations Kosovo Force (KFOR) and NATO elements that keep an acceptable, ephemeral normalcy in the country. Its instability, however, stemming from ethnic rivalries, especially between Slavs and Albanians, is simmering under a superficial calm. The only thing that keeps relative peace in the landlocked country is foreign interference that ended a six-month conflict between FYROM security forces and Albanian guerrillas of "Macedonia's" National Liberation Army (NLA).This group of secessionist Albanians is an offshoot of the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA}.

FYROM and Kossovo are brotherhood political bombs cases.

Bosnian experience has shown how powerless the outside world can be in managing events in the Balkans.

[Flipper]

The only hypocrisy on show here is the Greek government and their continued denial of the ethnic Macedonian minority. The Greek government must stop their policies of forced assimilation and denationalisation for their ethnic Macedonian minorities. The Greek government should immediately recognise the fundamental human and national rights for the ethnic Macedonians as guaranteed by the United Nations Declaration. The Macedonian language should be taught at all levels of the educational system. Allow the return of all exiled ethnic Macedonians immigrants who were born in Greece. Only then can Greece be a proper democracy.

You know that we would never recognise them with that name...Be realistic. What are we discussing on this site?

However, my question is: Do you want them to be recognised as a minority or is it the word "Macedonians" you're after?

I wouldn't have a problem recognise them as a minority of Slavomacedonians, but i won't recognise them with a name i use for myself. I mean, common logic man...

So far...as you can see on the lists Greece is much more proper democracy than yours country so leave that parrot speech outside please.

[effie]

The only hypocrisy on show here is the Greek government and their continued denial of the ethnic Macedonian minority. The Greek government must stop their policies of forced assimilation and denationalisation for their ethnic Macedonian minorities. The Greek government should immediately recognise the fundamental human and national rights for the ethnic Macedonians as guaranteed by the United Nations Declaration. The Macedonian language should be taught at all levels of the educational system. Allow the return of all exiled ethnic Macedonians immigrants who were born in Greece. Only then can Greece be a proper democracy.


What Macedonian language? Are you referring to the Slav language that the Slavs brought with them when they migrated south into this area long after Alexander the Great and his empire had vanished??????????????????????

No matter how many countries recognize the name Macedonia as your official name, either through ignorance or through reasons of their own, the truth is one and we will continue to shout it out - you have no right to the name Macedonia and you have nothing to do with our history.

You can erect statues of Alexander the Great every kilometre if you want but, unless you can erect a false birthplace for him and ancient Macedon, you will become the laughing stock of the world.


As for the comment about Greece being a proper democracy, clean up your own house before you start wondering about other houses. I have said it before and I will say it again, Fyromians should look to Greece for help and not aggravate us because in the future you are going to have serious trouble with the Albanians and you will need our support.

[nikosart]

Typical, what did you expect? Logic from them?