Who Exactly Are the Grey Wolves?

[PhiliptheUniterchaeronea]

Straight forward question. Why did theGrey Wolves try and burn Rhodes in 1996? Are they copying the Turkish commander who attempted to burn Greeks/Greece in Macedonia all those years ago? (Skops, don't even try to join this conversation). Finally, I am by no means accusing them of the environmental terrorism happening on Greece now, I just wouldn't be shocked if it was, but no, no accusations period.

[Makedonia22]

Whats this about that turkish commander?

[Spartan]

They are a ultra-nationalist group who wants to rekindle the power of the Ottomans and their possessions. They are the ones who cause many of the problems and been involved in assassinations.

"Grey Wolves (Bozkurtlar in Turkish) is the youth organization of the Turkish Nationalist Movement Party ("Milliyetçi Hareket Partisi", MHP), an ultra-nationalist[1] neo-fascist[2][3] movement founded by Alparslan Türkeş in 1969. They are named after Asena, a legendary ancient female wolf that led captive Turks to freedom. Their formal name in Turkish is ülkücüler (the Idealists) and Ülkücü Hareket (The Idealist Movement), inspired from 19th Century Turkish writer Ziya Gökalp later developed by 20th century writer Nihal Atsiz (who is also high school teacher of Alparslan Türkeş) and Italian fascist Giovanni Gentile's "Actual Idealism" theory as a pseudo-philosophical reference. Ülkü Ocakları (Forges of Ideal), the proper platform of Grey Wolves, denies any "direct" links with MHP and presents itself as an independent youth organisation. Their female supporters are called Asena. When loudly acclaimed while visiting an İstanbul synagogue in 1992, Alparslan Türkeş referred to the gatherers, with some humor, as the "Grey Wolves of Moses".[4] Turkish authorities accused the organization in 1981 of carrying out 694 murders in the years of 1974 to 1980.[5] It is considered as a terrorist organization by Martin A. Lee[2] and Khitij Prabha of the Indian Institute for Defense Studies and Analyses (IDSA)[6]

Go to wiki and type in Grey Wolves. You can learn everything about them that is public info.

Wasn't there another incident where a member of the Turkish secret police was CAUGHT setting fires in Mytilini?

[Truth Bearer]

can we relax here lets not point the blame about anyone especially a neighbouring country without facts.This is an internal matter either by developers or a political game gone wrong.........

[Orphic_Hymn]

can we relax here lets not point the blame about anyone especially a neighbouring country without facts.This is an internal matter either by developers or a political game gone wrong.........

what do you mean by "political game gone wrong" ?

[Truth Bearer]

Maybe and only a guess that these fires were politically motivated to embarass the Greek Goverment??Far too coincidental for fires to start simulatenesly all over Sterea Ellada and Peloponnesus don't you think?We must ask who is to benefit from such a tragedy?

[Orphic_Hymn]

I've spat on them time and time again and have absolutely no form of respect for them what so ever, have even went as far as titling some of them traitors as far as external politics goes. But even suggesting that this is the doing of the opposing party or -ies to make the current government look bad (as if it actually needed any help), is beyond the sphere of my imagination and do believe me when I say I have a vivid one.

[Truth Bearer]

Could it be anarchists or remnants of November 17??It's strange that within a wekk that Karamanlis announces elections Sep 16 we have fires starting all over the place coincidence??

[Orphic_Hymn]

Well if we were to get into the conspiracy theories.. we could include the date the first fires began.. we'll find its just before the EU Parliaments voting.

Anyway, I still can't believe that no matter how incompotent or some would say dangerous these people may be and how stupid the majority of us are since we're about to re-ellect one or the other in less than a month, that any single one of them would even think about resorting to such actions.
Sorry but I just can't consume myself with such thoughts, cause if we do believe that this actually is the case, then there is literally no reason for any single one of us to be left standing.

[Truth Bearer]

Didn't most of the fires start in mountaneous remote areas initially???
Now if you wanted to create panic without trying to kill anyone or damage too much property isn't it safer to start fires in those remote areas and hopefully(sic) they will be put out before any damage is done?
This what I'm saying a political game gone wrong?

[Orphic_Hymn]

Well if we were to take into account the previous ones, I wouldn't call those in Pilion, Euboia nor those in the general district around Athens as "remote".
But you mention creating panic without much damage.. think for a min', what greater damage than what is to come as a result of these fires? True some 63 people lost their lives during these unfortunate events, but several thousands still well alive will suffer for years, your economy will suffer due to acres of olive trees that were burnt down, your future % in tourism will be negative cause noone wants to visit ashes, the very ashes that were once your ecosystem which is now literally fucked up with all that does to the planet.. but lets not generalize.

If this is the "gone wrong" part, then again I have to insist on saying that IF we are to believe that this was a politically motivated move, someone's sick decision that this was the proper way to make the government, any government look bad, then we have no reason to remain standing.

[effie]

can we relax here lets not point the blame about anyone especially a neighbouring country without facts.This is an internal matter either by developers or a political game gone wrong.........


Truth Bearer, I wasn't blaming them for the fires when I mentioned them in my message. I was pointing out that in the past, fires have been started by this group and that they boasted afterwards of what they had done.

We have to look at all the possibilities of who exactly started the fires because the one thing I am sure about is that these are not random fires.

Granted the strong winds, the dryness of the countryside because of the three heat waves we experienced, and the fact that this area of Greece is full of deep chasms which make fighting these fires difficult are to blame for the fact that so much damage was done.

But so many fire fronts could not just have happened, and certainly not simultaneously for the most part.

Effie

[Truth Bearer]

Watch how now everyone will abuse and blame the goverment when before the anouncement of 16 sep was going to win in a landslide now all of a sudden due to it's incompetance and lack of urgent quick measures is going to cop all the blame.Do you not think that it's a bit of a coincidence??Karamanlis now has to postpone the elections but has he the balls to do it??

[Orphic_Hymn]

Who said it was going to win ?
Don't give so much weight on the alleged impartial polls, besides the fires were just the tip of the iceberg. Their incompotence was celebrated time and time again, not only that of the specific government in question but also all previous ones. Just think of it and you'll see that its due to their incompotence that this site is up and were debating our history with Bulgarians in total denial of their roots.

If we were to get into the doings of the specific government, their own greed and stupidity is what will cost them the elections. Thinking that we are still sheep that won't understand the magnitude of the bond scandal, that will still believe that Jul. 12th was a great political victory and yes will even fall for their attempts to cover up for their incompotence to handle such a crisis as the one we're living.
Since you mentioned that the fire issue will be exploited, just think for a min about their actions.
Without even getting into how it totally lacked anything that could be titled organization, clear indication of their incompotence is that they allegedly called the country in a "general stage of crisis" yet haven't requisitioned a single truck to assist the fire dep. and take it further by simply mentioning that they called upon the "Perseas Plan" which isn't a major fire-fighting solution as the government guided media has rediculously presented it to be, but a common EU plan which was originally introduced with the "bird flue' and has to do with major plagues and hospitals being prepared.

[effie]

Watch how now everyone will abuse and blame the goverment when before the anouncement of 16 sep was going to win in a landslide now all of a sudden due to it's incompetance and lack of urgent quick measures is going to cop all the blame.Do you not think that it's a bit of a coincidence??Karamanlis now has to postpone the elections but has he the balls to do it??

According to the Constitution of Greece he is not allowed to postpone the elections. The only reason an election can be postponed is in the case of war.

I don't believe that Pasok will benefit from what has happened. A lot of greeks believe that radical elements in Pasok are responsible for starting the fires.

What I believe is that the smaller political parties will benefit.

What do you think?

Effie

[PhiliptheUniterchaeronea]

can we relax here lets not point the blame about anyone especially a neighbouring country without facts.This is an internal matter either by developers or a political game gone wrong.........

Yes, I agree 100%. I was just asking about this ultra nationalistic group and on another note, the history of the Turkish commander all those decades ago (was it in the Balkan Wars) that tried to burn Greece at the time. Details of this are very sketchy, that is why I ask. However, I do not want to blame that Turks, that is completely irresponible at this time. Yes, this is environmental terrorism, but we do not know who is repsonsible. No way anyone should be blamed without evidence. My apologies if anyone misinterpreted my post.