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Ptolemy
01-15-2006, 06:01 PM
I have noticed many of the 'god-makes-them-sensible' arguments the Skopjans use, is that there was a big amount of Greek mercenaries (btw have they ever look in a vocabulary what a 'mercenary' is). Lets see now what happened during Persian wars and how many Greeks joined the Persian army who invaded Greece.

Diodorus Siculus 11.3.1
And now it will be useful to distinguish those Greeks who chose the side of the barbarians, in order that, incurring our censure here, their example may, by the obloquy visited upon them, deter for the future any who may become traitors to the common freedom. [2] The Aenianians, Dolopians, Melians,1 Perrhaebians, and Magnetans took the side of the barbarians even while the defending force was still at Tempe, and after its departure the Achaeans of Phthia, Locrians, Thessalians, and the majority of the Boeotians went over to the barbarians. [3] But the Greeks who were meeting in congress at the Isthmus2 voted to make the Greeks who voluntarily chose the cause of the Persians pay a tithe to the gods, when they should be successful in the war, and to send ambassadors to those Greeks who were neutral to urge them to join in the struggle for the common freedom. [4] Of the latter, some joined the alliance without reservation, while others postponed any decision for a considerable time, clinging to their own safety alone and anxiously waiting for the outcome of the war; the Argives, however, sending ambassadors to the common congress, promised to join the alliance if the congress would give them a share in the command. [5] To them the representatives declared plainly that, if they thought it a more terrible thing to have a Greek as general than a barbarian as master, they would do well to remain neutral, but if they were ambitious to secure the leadership of the Greeks, they should, it was stated, first have accomplished deeds deserving of this leadership and then strive for such an honour. After these events, when the ambassadors sent by Xerxes came to Greece and demanded both earth and water, all the states manifested in their replies the zeal they felt for the common freedom.

[6] When Xerxes learned that the Hellespont had been bridged and the canal4 had been dug through Athos, he left Sardis and made his way toward the Hellespont; and when he had arrived at Abydus, he led his army over the bridge into Europe. And as he advanced through Thrace, he added to his forces many soldiers from both the Thracians and neighbouring Greeks. [7] When he arrived at the city called Doriscus, he ordered his fleet to come there, and so both arms of his forces were gathered into one place. And he held there also the enumeration of the entire army, and the number of his land forces was over eight hundred thousand men, while the sum total of his ships of war exceeded twelve hundred, of which three hundred and twenty were Greek, the Greeks providing the complement of men and the king supplying the vessels. All the remaining ships were listed as barbarian; and of these the Egyptians supplied two hundred, the Phoenicians three hundred, the Cilicians eighty, the Pamphylians forty, the Lycians the same number, also the Carians eighty, and the Cyprians one hundred and fifty. [8] Of the Greeks the Dorians who dwelt off Caria, together with the Rhodians and Coans, sent forty ships, the Ionians, together with the Chians and Samians, one hundred, the Aeolians, together with the Lesbians and Tenedans, forty, the peoples of the region of the Hellespont, together with those who dwelt along the shores of the Pontus, eighty, and the inhabitants of the islands fifty; for the king had won over to his side the islands lying within the Cyanean Rocks5 and Triopium and Sunium. [9] Triremes made up the multitude we have listed, and the transports for the cavalry numbered eight hundred and fifty, and the triaconters three thousand. Xerxes, then, was busied with the enumeration of the armaments at Doriscus.


Diodorus Siculus 11.4.1
Leonidas, then, with four thousand soldiers advanced to Thermopylae. The Locrians, however, who dwelt in the neighbourhood of the passes had already given earth and water to the Persians, and had promised that they would seize the passes in advance; but when they learned that Leonidas had arrived at Thermopylae, they changed their minds and went over to the Greeks. [7] And there gathered at Thermopylae also a thousand Locrians, an equal number of Melians,2 and almost a thousand Phocians, as well as some four hundred Thebans of the other party; for the inhabitants of Thebes were divided against each other with respect to the alliance with the Persians. Now the Greeks who were drawn up with Leonidas for battle, being as many in number as we have set forth, tarried in Thermopylae, awaiting the arrival of the Persians.


Looks like Xerxes army had a considerable number of 'medezontes' greeks fighting against other Greeks as it happened almost all classical ages. Unfortunately the Skopjan propagandists lack any knowledge about that.

akritas
01-15-2006, 06:38 PM
Also Herodotus (book 8,Urania) mentioned the medezontes Greeks in Plateans battle.

28. Thus had the Phokians done to the Thessalian footmen, when they were besieged by them; and they had done irreparable hurt to their cavalry also, when this had invaded their land: for in the pass which is by Hyampolis they had dug a great trench and laid down in it empty wine-jars; and then having carried earth and laid it on the top and made it like the rest of the ground, they waited for the Thessalians to invade their land. These supposing that they would make short work with the Phokians,[20] riding in full course fell upon the wine-jars; and there the legs of their horses were utterly crippled.
29. Bearing then a grudge for both of these things, the Thessalians sent a herald and addressed them thus: "Phokians, we advise you to be more disposed now to change your minds and to admit that ye are not on a level with us: for in former times among the Hellenes, so long as it pleased us to be on that side, we always had the preference over you, and now we have such great power with the Barbarian that it rests with us to cause you to be deprived of your land and to be sold into slavery also. We however, though we have all the power in our hands, do not bear malice, but let there be paid to us fifty talents of silver in return for this, and we will engage to avert the dangers which threaten to come upon your land."
30. Thus the Thessalians proposed to them; for the Phokians alone of all the people in those parts were not taking the side of the Medes, and this for no other reason, as I conjecture, but only because of their enmity with the Thessalians; and if the Thessalians had supported the cause of the Hellenes, I am of opinion that the Phokians would have been on the side of the Medes. When the Thessalians proposed this, they said that they would not give the money, and that it was open to them to take the Median side just as much as the Thessalians, if they desired it for other reasons; but they would not with their own will be traitors to Hellas.
31. When these words were reported, then the Thessalians, moved with anger against the Phokians, became guides to the Barbarian to show him the way: and from the land of Trachis they entered Doris; for a narrow strip[21] of the Dorian territory extends this way, about thirty furlongs in breadth, lying between Malis and Phokis, the region which was in ancient time called Dryopis; this land is the mother-country of the Dorians in Peloponnese. Now the Barbarians did not lay waste this land of Doris when they entered it, for the people of it were taking the side of the Medes, and also the Thessalians did not desire it.

32. When however from Doris they entered Phokis, they did not indeed capture the Phokians themselves; for some of them had gone up to the heights of Parnassos,--and that summit of Parnassos is very convenient to receive a large number, which lies by itself near the city of Neon, the name of it being Tithorea,--to this, I say, some of them had carried up their goods and gone up themselves; but most of them had conveyed their goods out to the Ozolian Locrians, to the city of Amphissa, which is situated above the Crissaian plain. The ...........

As you see Locrians,Fokians,Thessalians, Boetians Maleias and


34. Passing by Parapotamioi the Barbarians came to Panopeus, and from this point onwards their army was separated and went different ways. The largest and strongest part of the army, proceeding with Xerxes himself against Athens, entered the land of the Boeotians, coming into the territory of Orchomenos. Now the general body of the Boeotians was taking the side of the Medes, and their cities were being kept by Macedonians appointed for each, who had been sent by Alexander; and they were keeping them this aim, namely in order to make it plain to Xerxes that the Boeotians were disposed to be on the side of the Medes.


and Macedonians.
All the Greeks medezontes in the right side of the Persian formation against in the left Greek side that composed of Plateans and Athenians.

also and in the book 9


book 9,31,1 .When Mardonius (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?type=phrase&alts=0&group=typecat&lookup=Mardonius&collection=Perseus:collection:Greco-Roman)' barbarians had finished their mourning for Masistius (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?type=phrase&alts=0&group=typecat&lookup=Masistius&collection=Perseus:collection:Greco-Roman) and heard that the Greeks (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?type=phrase&alts=0&group=typecat&lookup=Greeks&collection=Perseus:collection:Greco-Roman) were at Plataea (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?type=phrase&alts=0&group=typecat&lookup=Plataea&collection=Perseus:collection:Greco-Roman), they also came to the part of the Asopus (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?type=phrase&alts=0&group=typecat&lookup=Asopus&collection=Perseus:collection:Greco-Roman) river nearest to them. When they were there, they were arrayed for battle by Mardonius (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?type=phrase&alts=0&group=typecat&lookup=Mardonius&collection=Perseus:collection:Greco-Roman) as I shall show. He posted the Persians (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?type=phrase&alts=0&group=typecat&lookup=Persians&collection=Perseus:collection:Greco-Roman) facing the Lacedaemonians (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?type=phrase&alts=0&group=typecat&lookup=Lacedaemonians&collection=Perseus:collection:Greco-Roman). [2] Seeing that the Persians (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?type=phrase&alts=0&group=typecat&lookup=Persians&collection=Perseus:collection:Greco-Roman) by far outnumbered the Lacedaemonians (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?type=phrase&alts=0&group=typecat&lookup=Lacedaemonians&collection=Perseus:collection:Greco-Roman), they were arrayed in deeper ranks and their line ran opposite the Tegeans (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?type=phrase&alts=0&group=typecat&lookup=Tegeans&collection=Perseus:collection:Greco-Roman) also. In his arraying of them he chose out the strongest part of the Persians (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?type=phrase&alts=0&group=typecat&lookup=Persians&collection=Perseus:collection:Greco-Roman) to set it over against the Lacedaemonians (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?type=phrase&alts=0&group=typecat&lookup=Lacedaemonians&collection=Perseus:collection:Greco-Roman), and posted the weaker by them facing the Tegeans (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?type=phrase&alts=0&group=typecat&lookup=Tegeans&collection=Perseus:collection:Greco-Roman); this he did being so informed and taught by the Thebans (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?type=phrase&alts=0&group=typecat&lookup=Thebans&collection=Perseus:collection:Greco-Roman). [3] Next to the Persians (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?type=phrase&alts=0&group=typecat&lookup=Persians&collection=Perseus:collection:Greco-Roman) he posted the Medes (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?type=phrase&alts=0&group=typecat&lookup=Medes&collection=Perseus:collection:Greco-Roman) opposite the men of Corinth (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?type=phrase&alts=0&group=typecat&lookup=Corinth&collection=Perseus:collection:Greco-Roman), Potidaea (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?type=phrase&alts=0&group=typecat&lookup=Potidaea&collection=Perseus:collection:Greco-Roman), Orchomenus (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?type=phrase&alts=0&group=typecat&lookup=Orchomenus&collection=Perseus:collection:Greco-Roman), and Sicyon (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?type=phrase&alts=0&group=typecat&lookup=Sicyon&collection=Perseus:collection:Greco-Roman); next to the Medes (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?type=phrase&alts=0&group=typecat&lookup=Medes&collection=Perseus:collection:Greco-Roman), the Bactrians, opposite the men of Epidaurus (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?type=phrase&alts=0&group=typecat&lookup=Epidaurus&collection=Perseus:collection:Greco-Roman), Troezen (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?type=phrase&alts=0&group=typecat&lookup=Troezen&collection=Perseus:collection:Greco-Roman), Lepreum (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?type=phrase&alts=0&group=typecat&lookup=Lepreum&collection=Perseus:collection:Greco-Roman), Tiryns (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?type=phrase&alts=0&group=typecat&lookup=Tiryns&collection=Perseus:collection:Greco-Roman), Mycenae (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?type=phrase&alts=0&group=typecat&lookup=Mycenae&collection=Perseus:collection:Greco-Roman), and Phlius (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?type=phrase&alts=0&group=typecat&lookup=Phlius&collection=Perseus:collection:Greco-Roman). [4] After the Bactrians he set the Indians (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?type=phrase&alts=0&group=typecat&lookup=Indians&collection=Perseus:collection:Greco-Roman), opposite the men of Hermione (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?type=phrase&alts=0&group=typecat&lookup=Hermione&collection=Perseus:collection:Greco-Roman) and Eretria (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?type=phrase&alts=0&group=typecat&lookup=Eretria&collection=Perseus:collection:Greco-Roman) and Styra (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?type=phrase&alts=0&group=typecat&lookup=Styra&collection=Perseus:collection:Greco-Roman) and Chalcis (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?type=phrase&alts=0&group=typecat&lookup=Chalcis&collection=Perseus:collection:Greco-Roman). Next to the Indians (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?type=phrase&alts=0&group=typecat&lookup=Indians&collection=Perseus:collection:Greco-Roman) he posted the Sacae (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?type=phrase&alts=0&group=typecat&lookup=Sacae&collection=Perseus:collection:Greco-Roman), opposite the Ampraciots (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?type=phrase&alts=0&group=typecat&lookup=Ampraciots&collection=Perseus:collection:Greco-Roman), Anactorians (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?type=phrase&alts=0&group=typecat&lookup=Anactorians&collection=Perseus:collection:Greco-Roman), Leucadians (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?type=phrase&alts=0&group=typecat&lookup=Leucadians&collection=Perseus:collection:Greco-Roman), Paleans (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?type=phrase&alts=0&group=typecat&lookup=Paleans&collection=Perseus:collection:Greco-Roman), and Aeginetans (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?type=phrase&alts=0&group=typecat&lookup=Aeginetans&collection=Perseus:collection:Greco-Roman); [5] next to the Sacae (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?type=phrase&alts=0&group=typecat&lookup=Sacae&collection=Perseus:collection:Greco-Roman), and opposite the Athenians (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?type=phrase&alts=0&group=typecat&lookup=Athenians&collection=Perseus:collection:Greco-Roman), Plataeans (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?type=phrase&alts=0&group=typecat&lookup=Plataeans&collection=Perseus:collection:Greco-Roman), Megarians (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?type=phrase&alts=0&group=typecat&lookup=Megarians&collection=Perseus:collection:Greco-Roman), the Boeotians (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?type=phrase&alts=0&group=typecat&lookup=Boeotians&collection=Perseus:collection:Greco-Roman), Locrians (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?type=phrase&alts=0&group=typecat&lookup=Locrians&collection=Perseus:collection:Greco-Roman), Malians (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?type=phrase&alts=0&group=typecat&lookup=Malians&collection=Perseus:collection:Greco-Roman), Thessalians (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?type=phrase&alts=0&group=typecat&lookup=Thessalians&collection=Perseus:collection:Greco-Roman), and the thousand that came from Phocis (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?type=phrase&alts=0&group=typecat&lookup=Phocis&collection=Perseus:collection:Greco-Roman); for not all the Phocians (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?type=phrase&alts=0&group=typecat&lookup=Phocians&collection=Perseus:collection:Greco-Roman) took the Persian (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?type=phrase&alts=0&group=typecat&lookup=Persian&collection=Perseus:collection:Greco-Roman) side, but some of them gave their aid to the Greek (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?type=phrase&alts=0&group=typecat&lookup=Greek&collection=Perseus:collection:Greco-Roman) cause; these had been besieged on Parnassus (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?type=phrase&alts=0&group=typecat&lookup=Parnassus&collection=Perseus:collection:Greco-Roman), and issued out from there to harry Mardonius (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?type=phrase&alts=0&group=typecat&lookup=Mardonius&collection=Perseus:collection:Greco-Roman)' army and the Greeks (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?type=phrase&alts=0&group=typecat&lookup=Greeks&collection=Perseus:collection:Greco-Roman) who were with him. Beside these, he arrayed the Macedonians (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?type=phrase&alts=0&group=typecat&lookup=Macedonians&collection=Perseus:collection:Greco-Roman) also and those who lived in the area of Thessaly (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?type=phrase&alts=0&group=typecat&lookup=Thessaly&collection=Perseus:collection:Greco-Roman) opposite the Athenians (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin/vor?type=phrase&alts=0&group=typecat&lookup=Athenians&collection=Perseus:collection:Greco-Roman).