Hey guys,

i have a belief that our system of living is made up of two programs if your like. That of the Greek and that of the Jewish. I donthavethe time now to explain the detail of this claim, but you only need to look at it from a life style. Morality, how do we carry out our daily quest...one with the belief of God wipes your backside when you do good deeds, the other, seeks the truth...God himslef.To accept this you have already achieved freedom to turn your head towards the opening of the cave....wanna break from the chains?

Watch this short clip of this youngman who gives a very clear message of how our lifes, are influenced through Jews and Greeks...the choice of living is yours. You might ask wahst the point to this...il explain later.

For now watch and first see if your mind understands teh hidden messages, especialy in the neration of Platos cave clip.

YouTube - Hebraism vs. Hellenism


And heres a naration of Platos cave. Take the time to watch it, its a chance for you test your understanding of truth......

YouTube - Plato - The Cave

Ofcourse what debate would this be without the Jewish insight.

Hers a clip of a very wierd bloke, and i lost count of how many contradictions he makes in regards to the wonderful Hanukkah festival, and how Greeks are dark lords and they are the light of the world. Tll this day , this is there view.


Dont believe me? Search it else where. There rebels didnt stop there, there massacre at Cyprus is never brought into light as genocide. Yet they have it in there history books and there encyclopdia. Over 200,000 Greeks sluaghtered.


Yet We are constanly reminded of there misery with a short malaka who had a short moustaki.

YouTube - Hanukah- One Insight

Lakonian what slaughter in Cyprus?Can u evaluate yr claims mate??I gotta see this I've heard of this before and again the claimant couldn't provide the facts.The onous is up to you so please before you make such claims show us.....

It's by Dio Cassius

Meanwhile the Jews in the region of Cyrene had put one Andreas at their head and were destroying both the Romans and the Greeks.
They would cook their flesh, make belts for themselves of their entrails, anoint themselves with their blood, and wear their skins for clothing. Many they sawed in two, from the head downwards.
Others they would give to wild beasts and force still others to fight as gladiators. In all, consequently, two hundred and twenty thousand perished. In Egypt, also, they performed many similar deeds, and in Cyprus under the leadership of Artemio.
There, likewise, two hundred and forty thousand perished. For this reason no Jew may set foot in that land, but even if one of them is driven upon the island by force of the wind, he is put to death.
Various persons took part in subduing these Jews, one being Lusius, who was sent by Trajan.

Dio's Rome, Volume 5, Books 61-76 (A.D. 54-211) by Cassius Dio - Project Gutenberg (http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/10890)

I never speak lies Truth Bearer.....seems my friend has beaten me to the punch.

But here is more....

In 115, the Roman army led by Trajan was fighting against one of its major enemies, the Parthian Empire. The diasporic Jews started a revolt in Cyrenaica that also involved Aegyptus and Cyprus. In Cyrene (Cyrenaica), the rebels (led by a Lukuas or Andreas, who called himself "king" according to Eusebius of Caesarea), destroyed many temples, including those to Hecate, Jupiter, Apollo, Artemis, and Isis, as well as the civil structures symbols of Rome, the Caesareum, the basilica, and the thermae. The Greek and Roman population was exterminated.

According to the Jewish Encyclopedia, "...about 200,000 Romans and Greeks had been killed (Dio Cassius, lxviii. 32). By this outbreak Libya was depopulated to such an extent that a few years later new colonies had to be established there (Eusebius, "Chronicle" from the Armenian, fourteenth year of Hadrian). Bishop Synesius, a native of Cyrene in the beginning of the fifth century, speaks of the devastations wrought by the Jews ("Do Regno," p. 2).

Hope this satisfies you and you understand that 200,000 back then was extermination to the point of extinction.

I find this very hard to believe since by the time of Trajan the Jews were expelled from Judea so I just can't see how a group or an army of Jews could massacre 200,000 people I mean are we serious here and your telling me this event has never been recorded except by some Dio Cassius??

With what army could these people do this??Can you coprehend 200,000 murdered by a rebel group??Lakonioan and Ehetlaios do you really believe this??Or have you been reading too many Jewish conspiracy sites????
And also what was this so called rebellion called???

You have ONE only ONE historian who claims this don't you think this is a bit odd???Can you conspirators give me another reference??

Jewish revolt of 115 ACE. That's how I know it.

And personally I can comprehend many things.

If the numbers are a bit elevated, that I do not know however.

Cyrene, Libya
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Cyrene, the ancient Greek city (in present-day Libya) was the oldest and most important of the five Greek cities in the region and gave eastern Libya the classical name 'Cyrenaica' that it has retained to modern times. It lies in a lush valley in the Jebel Akhdar uplands. It was named after a spring, Kyre, which the Greeks consecrated to Apollo.

Cyrene was founded as a colony of the Greeks of Thera (modern Santorini), traditionally led by Battus I from Thera, in 630 BC ten miles from its port, Apollonia (Marsa Sousa). Details concerning the founding of the city are contained in Book IV of the Histories of Herodotus. It promptly became the chief town of the ancient Libyan region between Egypt and Carthage (Cyrenaica), kept up commercial relations with all the Greek cities, and reached the height of its prosperity under its own kings in the 5th century BC. Soon after 460 BC it became a republic; after the death of Alexander the Great (323 BC) it passed to the Ptolemies and fell into decay.

Cyrenaica became part of the empire controlled by the Ptolemaic dynasty from Alexandria in Egypt and later passed to the Roman empire. Cyrene was the birthplace of Eratosthenes and there are a number of philosophers associated with the city including Callimachus, Carneades, Aristippus and Arete, and Synesius, bishop of Ptolemais in the 4th century CE.

The inhabitants of Cyrene at the time of Sulla (c. 85 BC) were divided into four classes: citizens, farmers, resident aliens, and Jews, who formed a restless minority. The ruler of the town, Apion bequeathed it to the Romans, but it kept its self-government. In 74 BC Cyrene was created a Roman province; but, whereas under the Ptolemies the Jewish inhabitants had enjoyed equal rights, they now found themselves increasingly oppressed by the now autonomous and much larger Greek population. Tensions came to a head in the insurrection of the Jews of Cyrene under Vespasian (73) and especially Trajan (117). This revolt was quelled by Marcius Turbo, but not before huge numbers of people had been killed (Cassius Dio, lxviii. 32). According to Eusebius the outbreak of violence left Libya depopulated to such an extent that a few years later new colonies had to be established there just to maintain the viability of continued settlement.

Cyrene's chief local export through much of its early history -- the medicinal herb silphium -- was pictured on most Cyrenian coins, until it was harvested to extinction. Though commercial competition from Carthage and Alexandria reduced its trade, Cyrene, with its port of Apollonia (Marsa Susa), remained an important urban center until the earthquake of 365. Ammianus Marcellinus described it in the 4th century as a deserted city, and Synesius, a native of Cyrene, described it in the following century as a vast ruin at the mercy of the nomads.

The names of six Christian bishops are known: according to Byzantine legend the first was St. Lucius (Acts 13:1); St. Theodorus suffered martyrdom under Diocletian; about 370 Philo dared to consecrate by himself a bishop for Hydra, and was succeeded by his own nephew, Philo; Rufus sided with Dioscorus at the so-called Robber Synod (Latrocinium) of Ephesus in 449; Leontius lived about 600.

Cyrene is now an archeological site near the village of Shahat. One of its more significant features is the Temple of Apollo which was originally constructed as early as 7th century BC. Other ancient structures include a Temple to Demeter and a partially unexcavated Temple to Zeus (the latter was intentionally damaged under orders of Moammar Al Qadhafi in the summer of 1978). There is a large necropolis approximately 10 km between Cyrene and its ancient port of Apollonia.

I have to go back to school i think...all this study and never heard of that?
And i was a good student :(

From Livius web site they hardly even mention the revolt I mean 200,000 people is a lot of flesh guys.No offence Lakonian but for some one like you who praises and claims to live by the Hellenic code you really should be more open minded as LOGIC the classic Greek trait should have warned you that the numbers don't stack up.

Cyrene and the Cyrenaica (http://www.livius.org/ct-cz/cyrenaica/cyrenaica.html)

Cyrenaica enjoyed a lasting peace under a Roman governor. The emperor Augustus presented its capital with a new temple for the god Zeus (with a replica of Phidias' famous statue of Zeus), and other emperors gave similar presents. The native population continued its cults, but with Roman influences (e.g., Slonta). The tranquility was only briefly interrupted in 115, when a Jew named Lukuas claimed to be the Messiah and launched a revolt. There were large-scale destructions, but ultimately, the Romans regained their province, and the emperor Hadrian ordered the Jews to pay for the reconstruction.

Its called the Bar Komba War and Kitos War and dont be an arrogant prick.

Jews call it the mered ha'galoyot or mered ha'tfutzot (מרד התפוצות), translation: Rebellion of the exile).

And if the Jewish Encyclopdedia states it...so be it.

I dont know what you dont understand about Hanukkah the celebration. I protect the Hellenic system. Which they attack daily through history and present events...i have no time to educate on this. If this thread somehow makes you uneasy about something that actualy happened that the supposed rebelious party even confess oo, move on phile.

And by the way, its easy for you swallow 60 million + jews suffering at the hands of Germans???? Who did the counting then?? can you show me proof? Like a list of there names????

Can you show me the list of Greek who where slaughtered by Turkish genocide??????

I have to admit i didn't know anything about that!
I just read it on wiki...well you can't know all! :)
Even though i find it unbelieveblle that 240.000 Greeks were living then on the island!
And how many were the Jewish? A million?

The situation was pacified also in Cyprus, where Jews led by Artemion had taken control of the island. According to the Jewish Encyclopedia, "Under the leadership of one Artemion, the Cyprian Jews participated in the great uprising against the Romans under Trajan (117), and they are reported to have massacred 240,000 Greeks !

And what about this one Mr lakonian....

Eusebius, HE IV 2
In the eighteenth year of Trajan the Jews of Alexandria, Cyrene and Egypt rose up and in the next year caused a large war when Lupus was prefect of all Egypt. In the first battle the Jews were victorious but the retreating Greeks fell upon the Jews of Alexandria and killed them all. The Cyrene Jews, deprived of their allies, fell upon the chora of Egypt and laid waste the nomes led by Loukouas. Against these the emperor sent Marcius Turbo with foot and fleet and also cavalry. These men, in many battles and over along period of time, slew many thousands of Jews, not only those from Cyrene but also those from Egypt who had taken up with them together with their King Loukouas.

So I ask you again where's the 200,000 and as you can read we also left no prisoners........I mean come on mate open your eyes remeber Aristotle's teachings everything is based on LOGIC

There rebels didnt stop there, there massacre at Cyprus is never brought into light as genocide. Yet they have it in there history books and there encyclopdia. Over 200,000 Greeks sluaghtered.
[/url]

Well this is what I found in the jewish library

The Virtual Jewish History Tour
Cyprus


By Ariel Scheib

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/images/maps/cyprus.gif

Cyprus is the large island located in the easternmost part of the Mediterranean. The inhabitants of Cyprus were at first, perhaps, Carians; in historical times, Phenicians; and later, Greeks. During the last period of Greek occupancy, there were numerous Jewish settlers living in Cyprus. The Jews had close relationships with many of the other religious groups on the island and were seen favorably by the Romans. During the war over the city of Ptolemais between Alexander Jannæus and Ptolemy Lathyrus, King of Cyprus, many Jews were killed. During the war the Jewish citizens remained steadfast in their allegiance to King Lathyrus.

In Roman Times
The Jews fared well in Cyprus during Roman rule. During this period, Christianity was preached in Cyprus among the Jews at an early date, Paul being the first, and Barnabas, a native of Cyprus, the second. They attempted to convert the Jews to the ideas of Jesus. Under the leadership of Artemion, the Cyprian Jews participated in the great uprising against the Romans under Trajan in 117 C.E. In further punishment a severe law was enacted, according to which no Jew was permitted to land on Cyprian soil, not even in case of shipwreck; nevertheless Jewish residents still lived on the island. After a few years of calm, the Jewish communtities began to grow and thrive once again in Cyprus. In 610, however, the Jews again participated in the insurrection against the Greeks under the rule of Heraclius.

In 646, and again in 1154, Cyprus was devastated by the Arabs; in 1571, it was annexed by Turkey, having been taken from the Venetians. In 1878, Cyprus came under English rule.G. S. Kr.

The Virtual Jewish History Tour: Cyprus (http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/cyprus.html)

Where does it say anywhere 200,000 people killed????

Its called the Bar Komba War and Kitos War and dont be an arrogant prick.

And by the way, its easy for you swallow 60 million + jews suffering at the hands of Germans???? Who did the counting then?? can you show me proof? Like a list of there names????



Where did you find that the Germans slaughtered 60,000,000 + Jews????
And tell me my friend why all this hatred for them?Why do you despise a people that really contributed nothing to mankind until Christianity.A religion that subdues the mind controls thought make man totally God fearing weakly human being???
Tell me Lakonian have you ever met or spoken in depth with a Jew like a D & M type of discussion?
Remember lad LOGIC don't believe in crap from a people that need to claim some pride in their military history(zionists) a people that were monotheist god fearing fools that really never had a country nor a king nor were they a proud people who ever rebelled succesfully against tyranny.The macabees failed because we Hellenes stayed until the Romans,these other revolts during the Roman times also failed they failed during Isabella's reign when she threw them out of Spain they failed when they so weakly accepted death by the Germans they not once raised a revolt against them(except 1 small one in Warsaw ghetto) and yet they only got a country in defeat thanks to Hitker they should be raising a monument for him.Since then Israel is a super power and you want Lakonian good on them whereas we Hellenes can't do jack on the international stage we forever lose out on Nth Epirus,Eastern Thrace,Constaninople,Smyrna,Pontus,Cyprus were does it all end??

Και που σαι ακόμα TB!
'Ολα ξεκίνησαν το 1999000 πχ όταν οι βρωμεροί εβραιοελωχίμ εισέβαλαν στον πλανήτη ΕΛ-ΛΑΣ οπου ζούσαν, ευημερούσαν και επικρατούσαν οι υπέροχοι ομόαιμοι ΕΛ-ΛΗΝΕΣ και από τότε έχουμε τραβήξει τα πάθη του εβραίου ιησού!

έστειλαν τους σημίτες φοίνικες να ανταγωνίζονται τους έλληνες σε όλη τη μεσόγειο, έβαλαν τον ξέρξη να την πέσει στις εληνικές πόλεις, έβαλαν τους γεφυραίους να ελέγχουν την θήβα και εμποδίζουν τους έλληνες να ενωθούν, έβαλαν τον αλέκο να προσκυνήσει το γιαχβέ, προσπάθησαν να διαφθείρουν την πτολεμαική αίγυπτο και σαμπόταραν τους σελευκίδες....σταύρωσαν τον χριστούλη μας, σίνιαραν το χριστιανισμό για να καταστρέψουν τον ελληνισμό, άνοιξαν την κερκόπορτα για να μπει η τουρκιά στην πόλη, επιχείρησαν να δημιουργήσουν εβραικό κράτος στη μακεδονία με πρωτεύουσα τη "μητέρα του ισραήλ", μας έκλεψαν την πρωτιά στα θύματα της επίθεσης των ιταλών(Αντισυνταγματάρχης Μορδοχάϊ Φρυζή), έβαλαν τους τούρκους στην κύπρο, απέσυραν τη διδασκαλία των αρχαίων ελληνικών στα σχολεία, αποτελούν τις "σκοτεινές δυνάμεις" που κατατρέχουν το χριστόδουλο και γενικά υπονομεύουν την ελλάδα, τους έλληνες και τον ελλληνισμό...τα πα καλα?

(Για ότι δεν καταλαβαίνετε δίδονται ιδιαίτερα μαθήματα μετά τις 10 ώρα Ελλάδας) :lol:

Pantos i alitheia einai oti tous dinoume poly credit.

To sigouro einai oti se diaforous kolpous neofotistikous kai den anaferomai se ellinikous i germanikous, alla pio genikos o oros Skotadiste dinei kai pairnei kai pio sygkekrimena anaferetai se ola ta Avraamika stoixeia kai di oxi se Istoriko-Politiko kyklous alla se pio pneymatikous pou den exoun sxesi me ethni, xrimata i otidipote allo sxetiko, kai ayto guarantee.

Kai kati allo to EvraioPoulo pou exeis linkarei truth_bearer sti Kypro proteraiotita dinei stous Phoenikes kai meta s tous Ellines, apo ayto kai mono katalavainei kaneis oti Logos den paizei oute sti diki sou pigi. Kai i poniria fainetai dinei prota stous Kares, meta stous Phoenikes kai tous Ellines tous diaxorizei me to later..

Sorry TB, the zero wasnt ment after 6...6 million+

who said 200,000 died in one day or 2 months or 1 year??? It lasted more than 2. Why is it hard for you to believe mate? Ha sthe Jewish suffering sort implemented some sort of innocent little i didnt harm anyone emotion in you?

They did there damage mate..i simply picked at it....you wanna play some sort justice knight with me and tell me hey on teh flip side rome returned the favour ace of spades it doesnt justify there act iether..... thank you for your pointless references by the way......

And i never said this was going to be easy for anyone to accept.

Anone who considers the Jews to be some sort of overrated power is a fool.....im moving on from this, and il post more later on this thread.

This has nothing to do with consiperacys rather an understanding that these people played a major role in the decline of the Hellenic system, only after the renaissance did we revive as a life style.,...i cant explain it now man im at work...look closer, i hope you know what im trying to say. Euklid you of all people know this.

The only decline in Hellenism was the establishment of a religion called CHRISTIANITY and since he was a Jew and Paul was a Jew oh well lets blame the Jews??They didn't accept him and we did have you ever bothered to ask why??So if i sell u a dud car isn't your nous to check out if it's drivable etc than just to blindly give me the dosh??How is it that they the Jews were what smarter than the ancient Hellenes?The 2 classic differences b/w us is that they are INTROVERTS and we are EXTROVERTS!!!

The ascend of Christianity is not as simply as saying it was Seul the Jew.

Until the Theodosian and Justinian Codex, there had been some serious amount of internal disorder in the Roman Empire.

Read for some general information the wiki article:

Decline of Hellenistic polytheism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End_of_Hellenic_Religion)

You shall observe that during these periods, the Pantheist Priests and senators of the Roman Empire never requested violent measures or banishment of Christianity or anything related. While at the beginning Christianity was treated by the Roman as religion "illicita", as something that is totally unfounded, and results from the science fiction Jewish writers who wanted to include int heir cosmotheory Hellenic myths, heroes and occults. The real Jews treated it as shameful. And the Greeks as just another science fiction novel.

Every time the Christians were on the Senate a majority, there was active persecution, everytime there was the opposite there was religious tolerance.

Pantheist Priests never pursued violent measures.

The Biblical violence sources from the second chapter after the Genesis the Leviticus part of Moses, which states crystal-clearly: Death to all except for us.(Leviticus 20:27 ("A man or a woman who is a medium or a wizard shall be put to death; they shall be stoned with stones, their blood shall be upon them.") and Exodus 22:18 ("You shall not permit a sorceress to live.")

This is an integral part of all 3 Abrahamic religions and the first thing you read after the Genesis Chapter.

Some intereresting food for thought is that on the 2nd century ACE, the Homo-ousion was rejected by the Ecumenical Council as being too heathen and being sourced from "pagan" Philosophy.

While on the 4th Century a couple of Councils later this was adopted by the Church. During that same century the persecutions against the traditional religion as Rome itself and Ellas called it begun in full scale operations.

Read the story of Hypatia of Alexandria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypatia_of_Alexandria) and break to tears.

The Christians took advantage of the religious tolerance of the Pantheist priests and aimed to fully evaporate them, this is some serious food for thought, because he who has the truth does not fear, nor actively aims to persecute others who he supposedly has no respect to.

If something is not even worthy of respect, one simply lets him be, cause bottom line he is an idiot, but that is not the case people. The Christians feared of the Priests, while the Priests did not fear them, they just let them be inside their mediocrity. And as Julian said: banned are the Christians from teaching Plato, let them keep to Matthew and Luca....;)

And Lakonian, do not speak for my part, please. I can speak myself.

Who said Hellines accepted jewish ways TB??? You seem to be in this thread spiting the same song as me....Hellines never accepted and Jews never sold us anything. You need to understand by the time Paul had started his sneevling Greece was under Rome, and Rome was split under Christianity and Paganism...we all know the campaigns that finaly ended the paganism......

Paul simply came at the right time..he knew the becoming......

Euklid i agree Hypatia is a sad story and there are 4 different versions of it all ending the same, Jews led her to a temple and dismembered her.....

And Euklid, dont talk to me in a condesending manner.....hold on...hezo....im one with the OHN aahhhhh

Snap out of your yoga my shit dont stink attitude mate.This war is only won through unification......ande...se agapo

Hypatia was murdered by Christians what have the Jews got to do with her death?

Just like they burned the Library of Alexandria and all the other atrocities they commited against the Hellenes in the name of Christianity??!!!
Then u tell me Christ who promoted love and understanding these human barbarians destroyed the ethos and the mind of the Hellenes!!They set us back to the dark days of the Dorian invasions 1100 B.C.........They through persecution and fear made us meekly,weakly god fearing human beings to the point that whatever the ancient Hellenes created and made was abolished put down burned and forbidden.We turned our backs on the legacy of our forefathers and became good happy go lucky worshipping christians hiding our Hellenic origins and claiming we're Romans(just like the skoppians denying their Bulgarian).By doing this both christian worlds east & west brought upon themselves the DARK AGES (400 A.D - 1200 A.D) that for 800 years man didn't create or invent 1 thing(except us with Greek Fire)we by doing this gave OUR knowledge to the Arabs who became the new power with Islam.They at this point enhanced science,astronomy,creativity etc to the point where Baghdad became to grandest city in the world.
Now I ask you Lakonian what have ther Jews got to do with all of this??

Lakonian are we not Hellenes???Or do you think we are Greek??Didn't we becoem christians upon Saul's journey's??Who do you think he converted?

How old are you TB?

You seem to have difficulty following me, or perhaps to give you satisfaction im not clear on what im tryng to get through to that realy thick skull of yours....

Where in this post have i questioned the atrocities the christian herds had commited against the Hellines??

Am i not the one who always feeds the question of the validity of this repeated spiritual system? ( meaning we had created the notion of christ or christian philosophy)

I believe it dragged for more than 40 pages in the Jesus thread.

This one is based on the source of the problem which is jewish...why cant you understand that? Why is it so hard for you to accept that Christianity was the key to Jewish system to be equal to that of the Hellenic?

If you throw a rock at them you can accept them to pick up the bible and reveal that prophecy of that act lol

You have cherped your little heart out for something im trying to say......and then you have the nerve to question if i think we are Greek or Hellenic....do you have some sort of anti-me agendas at the moment because of this thread or do you want me to say your right and im wrong....


Yes i think christians are jacked into the jewish system....why consider yourself a Hellenic person if you believe in something that goes against the nature of the hellenic way of life?


If your looking for some sort of back and forth debate that only will lead to the both of us agreeing its a waste of time man....you aint gonna get it brother.

You have potential man, but you seriously need a deeper understanding and im not saying you dont, you overshadow it by your poor following and silly sporadic in your face sarcasm.

Shape up man...we are blood. If your gonna debate with me at least find an akree and begin...so far you have wasted this thread by argueing something that i agree with you......

anyways i have a good source of the burning of Alexandria.......why it relates to this topic? Because it was moment where mankind deemed the light we Hellines provided for the cave dwellers.....thus it paved the way for re writings of half burnt scripts and muslim/christian re prints to suit only there needs....not to mention the war of jew/hebrew way of thinking compared to that of the Hellenics.

Introduction

What happened to the Royal Library of Alexandria? We can be certain it was there once, founded by Ptolomy II Soter, and we can be equally certain it is not there now. It formed part of the Museum which was located in the Bruchion or palace quarter of the city of Alexandria. This great ancient city, occupying a spit of land on the shore of the Mediterranean Sea, had been founded by Alexander the Great in his flying visit to Egypt and became the capital of the last dynasty of Pharaohs descended from Alexander's general Ptolemy. The Great or more properly Royal Library formed a part of the Museum but whether or not it was a separate building is unclear.

Stories about its demise have been circulating for centuries and date back to at least the first century AD. These stories continue to be told and embellished today by those who wish to make a moral attack against the alleged vandals. We find that three parties are blamed for the destruction and they correspond to the three occupying powers that ruled Alexandria after it had been lost by the Greeks. Let me first tell those stories as we hear them today - without references, largely inaccurate and used as polemic. Then I will try and establish what, if anything we can know before finally and rather indulgently making my own suggestions.

The suspects respectively are a Roman, a Christian and a Moslem - Julius Caesar, Patriarch Theophilus of Alexandria and Caliph Omar of Damascus. It is clear that the Royal Library could not have been burnt down or otherwise destroyed by all three of these characters and so we find we have too many sources for the event of the destruction rather than a paucity. As scholars of the Gospels will vouch, this too can be an embarrassment. How we decide to reconcile the stories will depend almost entirely on how we criticise the sources and which of them we choose to consider most reliable.

Archaeology can be a help with ancient history although it tends to be silent about the things in which we are most interested leading the more foolish archaeologists to claim they never happened. In the case of Alexandria a series of earthquakes and floods in the middle ages mean that the entire palace quarter in the North East of the city is now underwater and largely inaccessible. Recent work in underwater archaeology has revealed more but we will probably never be able to dig around in the foundations of the Museum. The Great Temple of Serapis, to which we will later return, was in the south-western quarter and parts of its foundations have been excavated.



Julius Caesar

First, let us read the legendary account:

It is often said that the Romans were civilised but their most famous general was responsible for the greatest act of vandalism during antiquity. Julius Caesar was attacking Alexandria in pursuit of his archrival Pompey when he found himself about to be cut off by the Egyptian fleet. Realising that this would leave him in a desperate predicament, he took decisive action and sent fire ships into the harbour. His plan was a success and the enemy fleet was quickly aflame. But the fire did not stop these and jumped onto the dockside which was laden with flammable materials ready for export. Next it spread in land and before anyone could stop it, the Great Library itself was blazing brightly as 400,000 priceless scrolls were reduced to ashes. As for Caesar himself, did not think it important enough to mention in his memoirs.

The accused was indeed in Alexandria in 47 - 48 BC after arriving in pursuit of his rival Pompey. Caesar was able to occupy the city without any trouble after destroying the Egyptian fleet and was residing in the palace with Cleopatra when more trouble started. Some henchmen of the Pharaoh attacked with a sizable force and Caesar suddenly found himself stuck in a hostile city with very few forces. That he still won out is a tribute to his luck and powers of leadership. This much is uncontested but to unravel the fate of the Royal Library we must examine the ancient sources.

Julius Caesar - The Civil Wars
The earliest account we have of this these events is in The Civil Wars penned by Caesar (died 44BC) himself. In it he explains how he had to set the dockyards and Alexandrine fleet alight for his own safety as he was in dire straits. As to whether the fire spread away from the shore and also damaged the Royal Library, he is silent. The narrative in The Civil Wars break off at the start of the campaign in Egypt and the story is taken up by one of his lieutenant's called Hirtius (died 43BC) in The Alexandrine War. It does not include any mention of setting fire to Alexandria but instead states that in fact the city would not burn as it was made purely of stone.

We can log this as a Not Guilty plea by the accused but note that a reason he might have mentioned that Alexandria does not burn would be to hide his own action of burning it. Future history demonstrated many times that Alexandria burns just as well as any other city. The fire is also not mentioned by Cicero in his philippics against Caesar's ally Mark Anthony. This is a valuable witness for the defence, as Cicero did not like Caesar at all. Unfortunately it is also an argument from silence and it is very possible that Cicero either did not know about everything that happened, saw no need to mention this particular event or mentioned it in the quarter of his works no longer extant.

Strabo - Geography

The great scholar, Strabo (died after 24AD) was in Alexandria in 20BC and in all his detailed description of the palace and Museum does not mention the library at all. This omission is often explained by scholars claiming that the library was inside the Museum or annexed to it. But even so, not breathing a word about this famous institution is very suspicious. Can we conclude that the library was no longer there but that political constraints meant that its fate still could not be mentioned?

Modern writer, Mostafa El-Abbadi, comes up with a more subtle point. He shows how Strabo mentions the body of research available to one of the earlier librarians was much greater than Strabo himself had access to. He concludes that this shows that Strabo did not have access to the wisdom of the Royal Library that his illustrious predecessor had. The point is small but potentially significant.

Livy and Florus - Epitome of the History of Rome

The first mention of the fire at Alexandria would seem to come from Livy (died 17AD) in his History of Rome. The book that it was included in is lost and the surviving Summaries are too brief to include it. However, a second century Epitome written by Florus survives and it says that the fire was started by Caesar to clear the area around his position so the enemy had no cover from which to fire arrows. The library itself is not mentioned by Florus although it was in the same area of the city as Caesar who was occupying the palace at the time.

The Younger Seneca - On Tranquillity of the Mind

In fact we do know that the Royal Library is mentioned by Livy because he is later quoted by Seneca (died 65AD) in his dialogue On the Tranquillity of the Mind where he also says that a great number of books were destroyed. It has been asserted that Seneca must have got his knowledge about the destruction of the books from Livy but a close reading of the dialogue does not bear this out. Seneca actually only states that Livy thought the library was "the most distinguished achievement of the good taste and solicitude of kings" and then only so as he can disagree.

The actual number of books destroyed that Seneca gives is matter of some controversy that we will need to briefly address. In ancient manuscripts it is common for large numbers to be expressed as a dot placed above the numeral for each power of ten. Clearly in copying it is easy to make a mistake with the number of dots and errors by a factor of ten are frequent. That may have happened in the case of On the Tranquillity of the Mind. The manuscript from Monte Cassino actually reads 40,000 books but this is usually corrected to 400,000 by editors as other sources such as Orosius give this figure for the number of scrolls destroyed. I have not seen the manuscript, of course, so do not know if this way the number is expressed. However, even if it was given in words the difference between 40,000 and 400,000 is also pretty small. I propose therefore that the number given by Seneca, and indeed all other ancient sources, should be ruled as inadmissible as evidence because we cannot be sure of what it was originally.

Plutarch and Dio Cassius - Life of Caesar and Roman History

After this, the references become more explicit. Plutarch (died 120AD), in his Life of Caesar throws in a reference to the destruction of the library almost casually. Now Plutarch does not seem to carry a brief against Caesar, although he is happy to criticise him, so we should take this reference seriously. Additionally, he had visited Alexandria and presumably might have noticed if the library was still in existence. Dio Cassius (died 235AD) tells us that warehouses of books near the docks were accidentally burnt by Caesar's men. His words are difficult to pin down and have led some scholars to suggest that only books waiting for export were destroyed. This reads far more into the text than it allows and I do not think that Dio saying that the books 'happened' to be in the path of the flames means that usually they were kept somewhere else.

Aulus Gellius - Attic Nights
Gellius (died 180 AD) included in his Attic Nights contain a brief passage about libraries where the destruction of the Royal Library is mentioned as taking place by accident during our first war against Alexandria when auxiliary soldiers started a fire. This first war was Caesar's campaign and the second was when Octavian took Egypt from Mark Anthony and Cleopatra. In The Vanished Library, Luciano Canfora claims that this passage is an interpolation on the strength that the introduction does not mention it but again the evidence for this seems flimsy. Gellius claims 700,000 books went up in smoke.

Ammianus Marcellinus and Orosius - Roman History and History against the Pagans

One of the final pagan Roman historians, Ammianus Marcellinus (died 395AD), tells us about the fate of the library during an aside about the city of Alexandria in his Roman History. He relates the story of the fire started by Julius Caesar is 'the unanimous belief of the ancient authors' but confuses the library building with the Serapeum and increases the number of scrolls destroyed to 700,000 (perhaps Gellius is his source). The story is repeated with the figure of 400,000 scrolls destroyed by Orosius (died after 415AD), an early Christian historian, in his History against the Pagans. Both these writers are far too late to be accurate sources on their own but they do tell us that by the fourth century the Royal Library was widely believed to have been destroyed by Julius Caesar. We will be discussing them further below with regard to the destruction of the Serapeum which occurred in their own time.

The verdict on Caesar
Taken together we can conclude a number of things from these sources:

The earliest descriptions of the Alexandrine War, written by Caesar or his crony, deliberately cover up anything that reflects badly on the great man. Their silence about burning down the world's greatest library, even by accident, is not surprising.
The library as a separate building did not exist by the time of Strabo's visit in 20BC.
The belief that Caesar had destroyed the library was widespread by the time his family no longer occupied the throne of the emperors in the late first century AD. Plutarch, Gellius and Seneca are all evidence for this. We must therefore assume that the library did not exist at this time. Plutarch, a Greek, would certainly have known if it did.
Although we cannot prove his guilt with first hand evidence, it seems justified to claim that the book stacks of the Royal Library were burnt down by Julius Caesar. Perhaps the reading rooms, which in any case were part of the Museum, survived but, as Seneca and all the other sources tell us, the books themselves perished. That scholarship continued in Alexandria after this time cannot be doubted but I can find no explicit mention of the Royal Library after Caesar's ill-fated visit. Indeed as Athenaeus of Naucratis (died after 200AD) mournfully wrote in the Deipnosophistai "And concerning the number of books and the establishment of libraries and the collection in the Museum, why need I even speak when they are all the the memory of men."



Theophilus
Again, the legendary story first:

Theophilus, Patriarch of Alexandria, is also the patron saint of arsonists. As Christianity slowly strangled the life out of classical culture in the fourth century it became more and more difficult to be a pagan. There stood in Alexandria the great temple of Serapis called the Serapeum and attached to it was the Great Library of Alexandria where all the wisdom of the ancients was preserved. Now Theophilus knew that as long as this knowledge existed people would be less inclined to believe the bible so he set about destroying the pagan temples. But the Serapeum was a huge structure, high on a mound and beyond the abilities of the raging Christian fanatics to assault. Faced with this edifice, the Patriarch sent word to Rome. There the Emperor Theodosius the Great, who had ordered that paganism be annihilated, gave his permission for the destruction of the Serapeum. Realising they had no chance, the priests and priestesses fled their temple and the mob moved in. The vast structure was razed to it foundations and the scrolls from the library were burnt in huge pyres in the streets of Alexandria.

Theophilus was indeed the Patriarch of Alexandria at the time that the Serapeum was converted into a Christian church although he has never been made a saint! The date for the events recorded is usually given as 391AD when Theodosius was emperor and energetically converting all his subjects to Christianity. The contention made is that there was another library in the Serapeum temple that a Christian mob destroyed during their sacking of the temple. We need to establish if there really was a library there and also if Theophilus destroyed it.

The intervening years
About the library the sources are reasonably silent but this is not a surprise because we know already that we cannot be talking about the Royal Library itself. However, Alexandria remained a centre of scholarship and other libraries existed. The Emperor Claudius set up the eponymous named Claudian to be a centre for the study of history and Hadrian founded a library at the Caesarean temple during his visit. Less reliably, Plutarch informs us that Mark Anthony gave Cleopatra the entire contents - some 200,000 rolls - of the Pergamon library as a gift.

The 12th century Byzantine scholar, John Tzetzes, in his Prolegomena to Aristophanes preserves some details about the catalogue of the poet Callimachus (died after 250BC) who said there were nearly 500,000 scrolls in the Royal Library and another 42,000 odd in the outer or public library. Note that Callimachus is not known to have referred to the Serapeum Library although he is often assumed to be doing so. The fourth century Bishop Epiphanius of Cyprus (died 402AD) in his Weights and Measures (actually a biblical commentary!) says that there were over 50,000 volumes in the 'daughter' library that he places in the Serapeum. Our previous observations about numbers fully apply here even if it seems fair to say that there were many fewer scrolls in the daughter than in the Royal Library. Epiphanius also tells us that by his day the entire Bruchion quarter of Alexandria was laid waste, no doubt due to the actions of Aurelian or Diocletian. There is a detailed report of the acropolis of Alexandria in a Progymnasmata by Aphthonius of Ephesus (died after 400AD) which he presents as an example of how to give a description. He speaks of book repositories open to the public and we can assume this refers to the Serapeum. Unfortunately the date of the description is impossible to determine and nor can we tell if it is an eyewitness account. However, we do have enough evidence in total to assert that there was once a library at the Serapeum even if it is not the same as the 'outer library' attached to the Royal Library.

Despite the continuation of academic activity, Alexandria suffered much in the years up to 391AD. Augustus reduced it, Caracalla massacred many of its citizens over a perceived insult and Aurelian also sacked the city and the palace quarter in which the Museum was situated. Finally, the city was taken with great destruction by Diocletian at the start of the fourth century.

Ammianus Marcellinus - Roman History
In the Roman History, Ammianus waxes lyrical about the Serapeum but he then gets a bit confused and says that the libraries it held were those burnt by Caesar in the Alexandrine War. The point is perhaps vital though because he had visited Alexandria and yet says of the Serapeum "in it have been valuable libraries" in the perfect tense. This was before 391AD when Theophilus and his gang set to work and very strongly suggests there were no books present in the temple at the time of its destruction.

Rufinus Tyrannius - Ecclesiastical History
The earliest description of the sack of the Serapeum was almost certainly one by Sophronius, a Christian scholar, called On the Overthrow of Serapis and now lost. Rufinus (died 410AD) was an orthodox Latin Christian who spent many years of his life in Alexandria. He arrived in 372AD and whether or not he was actually present when the Serapeum was demolished, he was certainly there at around the same time. He rather freely translated Eusebius's History of the Church into Latin and then added his own books X and XI taking the narrative up to his own time. It is in book XI that we find the best source for the events at the Serapeum which he describes in detail. His account largely agrees with the one given above except that he makes no mention of any library or books at all. He seems to regret the passing of the Serapeum but puts the blame squarely on the local pagans for inciting the Christian mob. The only English translation of his work is still very much in copyright so until I have produced another myself the reader will just have to take my word for it.

Eunapius - Lives of the Philosophers
The pagan writer Eunapius of Antioch (died after 400AD) included an account of the sack of the Serapeum in his Life of Antonius who, before he died in 390AD, had prophesied that all the pagan temples in Alexandria would be destroyed (not a desperately surprising contingency at the time). Eunapius wants to show how right he was. As well as being a pagan, Eunapius is vehemently anti-Christian and spares no effort in making Theophilus and his followers look as foolish as possible. His narrative is laced with venom and sarcasm as he describes the sack of the temple as a battle without an enemy. If a great library had been destroyed then Eunapius, the pagan scholar, would surely have mentioned it. He does not.

Socrates Scholasticus, Hermias Sozomen and Theodoret
Socrates (died after 450AD) also wrote a History of the Church that continued on from that of Eusebius. His was more detailed and in Greek rather than Latin. It contains a chapter about the destruction of the Serapeum which acknowledges that the deed was ordered by the Emperor, that the building was demolished and that it was later converted to a church. Again, no mention is made of any books that might have been in the Serapeum or what could have happened to them. His passage about the cross-shaped hieroglyphics found in the temple gives us some idea of how Christianity turned various pagan symbols to its advantage.

The histories of Sozomen (died 443AD) and Theodoret (died after 457AD) cover a similar period. Despite being pleased to report in detail the Serapeum's destruction they also make mention no books at all although Theodoret says that the wooden idols of Serapis were burnt. Both of these histories are heavily dependent on Socrates but do include details from other sources.

Paulus Orosius - History against the Pagans
Orosius (died after 415AD) was a friend of Saint Augustine who wrote a History against the Pagans that was fully intended to paint all non-Christians in a bad light. So as a historian he is useless but when he says something that suggests that his fellow Christians were not whiter than white, that is to say, against the grain of his usual bias, we have to take it seriously. In his aside on the Great Library, he says something of significance which is both an eyewitness detail and suggests that his fellow Christians are in the wrong. He says "…there exist in temples book chests which we ourselves have seen and when these temples were plundered these, we are told, were emptied by our own men in our own time." His statement that there was no other major library in Alexandria at the time of Caesar's expedition is interesting and would seem to count against there being a Serapeum library at that time. However, Orosius is too late a source to carry much weight in this matter.

From Orosius we can deduce that Christians did empty some temples of books but we cannot go much further. We cannot say the books were destroyed as this is not stated nor can we say which temples he is talking about or who was responsible. However, we can be sure he was not talking about the Serapeum as all sources agree it was razed to the ground and the temples Orosius visited are not only still standing but even have their internal furninshings. The most likely explanation is that the books were removed to Christian libraries or sold.

The verdict on Theophilus
It is hard enough to establish beyond doubt that there was a library in the Serapeum at all but if there was, Ammianus makes clear that it was no longer there by the mid-fourth century. This is confirmed by the silence of all the sources, including one that would be keen to report Christian atrocities, for the destruction of the temple in 391AD. Note that this is not an 'argument from silence' because there is no reason at all to expect a mention of books in the Serapeum when it was demolished. An invalid 'argument from silence' is when we claim something that is not mentioned did not happen, even though other evidence suggests it did. There is no positive evidence for the existence of the library and instead near conclusive eye witness evidence against.

The story that Theophilus destroyed a library is clearly a fiction that we can very precisely lay at the door of Edward Gibbon. It is in his monumental Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire that we first find the allegation made. Gibbon seems mainly concerned to clear the Arabs of the responsibility of destroying the library and allows his marked anti-Christian prejudice to cloud his better judgement. His excellent footnotes show he had exactly the same sources as we do but drew the wrong conclusions. The story has recently been popularised by Carl Sagan who includes it in Cosmos. He spices the story up with a role for the murdered philosopher Hypatia, even though there is no evidence connecting her to the library at all.

Caliph Omar
First the legendary account:

The Moslems invaded Egypt during the seventh century as their fanaticism carried them on conquests that would take form an empire stretching from Spain to India. There was not much of a struggle in Egypt and the locals found the rule of the Caliph to be more tolerant than that of the Byzantines before them. However, when a Christian called John informed the local Arab general that there existed in Alexandria a great Library preserving all the knowledge in the world he was perturbed. Eventually he sent word to Mecca where Caliph Omar ordered that all the books in the library should be destroyed because, as he said "they will either contradict the Koran, in which case they are heresy, or they will agree with it, so they are superfluous." Therefore, the books and scrolls were taken out of the library and distributed as fuel to the many bathhouses of the city. So enormous was the volume of literature that it took six months for it all to be burnt to ashes heating the saunas of the conquerors.

The leader of the Moslem forces that took Egypt in 640AD was called 'Amr and it was he who was supposed to have asked Omar what to do about the fabled library that he found himself in control of.

There are only a few sources that we need to examine. They are very late The first of the two late sources dates from the 12th century and is written by Abd al Latif (died 1231) who, in his Account of Egypt while describing Alexandria, mentions of the ruins of the Serapeum. The problems with this as historical evidence are enormous and insurmountable. He admits that the source of his information was rumour and the fantasy about Aristotle does not bode well for the veracity of the rest of the piece.

In the thirteenth century the great Jacobite Christian Bishop Gregory Bar Hebræus (died 1286), called Abû 'l Faraj in Arabic, fleshes the story out and includes the famous epigram about the Koran. Again there is no clue as to where he found the story but it seems to have been one doing the rounds among Christians living under the dominion of the Moslems. Gregory is happy to record plenty of far fetched tales about omens and monstrosities so we must treat this story with the greatest suspicion. As it is not even included in the original version of his history but only in the Arabic version that he translated and abridged himself very late in life, he may not have known the story when he first put pen to parchment. In The Vanished Library, Canfora mentions a Syriac manuscript published in Paris at the end of the nineteenth century by François Nau. It was written by a Christian monk in the ninth century and details the conversation between John and Caliph Omar. After help from email correspondents, I have finally been able to find this elusive document in its French translation and ascertained that it makes no mention of any library and appears to be an example of a theological dialogue between two representative individuals. In other words it is not historical and has no pretensions to be.

The verdict on Omar
The errors in the sources are obvious and the story itself is almost wholly incredible. In the first place, Gregory Bar Hebræus represents the Christian in his story as being one John of Byzantium and that John was certainly dead by the time of the Moslem invasion of Egypt. Also, the prospect of the library taking six months to burn is simply fantastic and just the sort of exaggeration one might expect to find in Arab legends such as the Arabian Nights. However Alfred Butler's famous observation that the books of the library were made of vellum which does not burn is not true. The very late dates of the source material are also suspect as there is no hint of this atrocity in any early literature - even in the Coptic Christian chronicle of John of Nikiou (died after 640AD) who detailed the Arab invasion. Finally, the story comes from the hand of a Christian intellectual who would have been more than happy to show the religion of his rulers in a bad light. Agreeing with Gibbon this time, we can dismiss it as a legend.

I consider the above to be an example of the worst act against the human soul.....

I'm only bombing you in yr blind hatred towards a people that really had nothing directly to do with the demise of Hellenism it wasn't this world wide Jewish conspiracy to demote Hellenism or suppress the Hellenes..I've heard all this rubbish well before you were born lad.Just chill mate don't stress we're on a similar page we just differentiate on some points like yr anti Judaism and yr total blind faith towards the Gods of Mt Olympus.....But read the next thread I'm about to post on Mike Katsidis I think yr going to love the read and his views.....

Blind faith in Gods???? I have no faith in gods you moron.

Anti judaism?? Man you on a roll....your lack of knowledge on this topic reflects the arrogance of your understanding in anything to do with philosophical metaphors....you only need to look back at your initial rambling and you ll see before this topic you had no idea about the Jewish rebelion, you say your claiments had no proof i provide you proof and you run to wiki to post what?? That Romans returned the favour to the Jews ace of spades?

Who cares man, my point is clear. The Christian foundation was through them , unless you wanna tell me that Paul or Saul which is his Hebrew name was Greek like most church lambs believe.

I stronlgy believe that the logic of Hellenism and Hebraism clash daily....i dont hate them but i do believe we are at opposite corners .....

We are totally on opposite corners as the the 2 poles Nth and Sth but yr ramblings about how the Jews hated and wanted to kill Greeks because they hate us is simply put WRONG!!!The Jews only believe in themselves and their people they have a religion that's based on race unlike christianity that's based on faith.I provided you some write ups about the Jewish rebelions one of them was from wiki just like you provide facts from that too so what's the big deal?Also I'm not the one abusing you and calling me names which obviously shows your age as young.
All I'm saying is relate to logic 240,000 people is a total exageration from them Zionists and from the Jewish conspirators.To wipe out a whole population of an island as big as Cyprus would take years.Also have you maybe asked only Dio wrote in detail about the massacre of Cyrene about them easting flesh have you asked why would someone write that about a people who obviously weren't canibals??
And contradicting yourself mate you posted that Hypatia was killed by the Jews which is wrong.

We are totally on opposite corners as the the 2 poles Nth and Sth but yr ramblings about how the Jews hated and wanted to kill Greeks because they hate us is simply put WRONG!!!The Jews only believe in themselves and their people they have a religion that's based on race unlike christianity that's based on faith.I provided you some write ups about the Jewish rebelions one of them was from wiki just like you provide facts from that too so what's the big deal?Also I'm not the one abusing you and calling me names which obviously shows your age as young.
All I'm saying is relate to logic 240,000 people is a total exageration from them Zionists and from the Jewish conspirators.To wipe out a whole population of an island as big as Cyprus would take years.Also have you maybe asked only Dio wrote in detail about the massacre of Cyrene about them easting flesh have you asked why would someone write that about a people who obviously weren't canibals??
And contradicting yourself mate you posted that Hypatia was killed by the Jews which is wrong.


TB i wonder how long you can keep this up.

1. I never once in this post said Jews wanna kill us, stop being delusional.

2.Where on earth have i made conspiracy claims, i simply posted what i found in the Jewish Encylopedia and not the wiki thank you very much.

3.Yes Hebrews where cannibals, in the Old Testament at the the statue and alter of Moloch.

4. I didnt contradict myself chief when i spoke of Hypatias death, i said jews because thats what christians are. Not Hellenic! Plato has made it clear when naming an object you do so by its function. Does Christian mentality fuction as that of a Hellenic?

And so, when they murdered her, i give them there rightful title, because there minds at the time of the crime was infected by a Jewish religion that had no respect for free thinking.

Im no longer discussing this with you because your not a man that honors truth. And being that your more older than me and wiser, you should restrain your finger pointing without justifiable evidence rather than accusing me of being anti semetic.My massage was what Jews think of us as a majority, and this is visible by our political ties, which are none especialy after there massacre with the Lebbanon bombing, and there good partnership in arms with Turks.

And lastly, i seriously dont enjoy having a conversation with someone that goes by the nickname TRUTH BEARER ,this in itself shows how arrogant you are and only how far past your nose you can see.Not even Socrates was titled that.

Come on mate just chill why all the aggro?And lets see Hypatia died 415 A.D do you really think by then still only Jews where christians and no one else??
By then 380 odd years after Joshua's death 3/4 of the civilised world were christians
Remember kiddo think use logic always think of Aristotle.

CHANUKAH
Judaism vs Hellenism




Why did the interaction of the Greeks and the Jews create such problems? What was there about Hellenism that lured so many Jews to assimilate and at the same time, aroused in other Jews such staunch opposition?

Ironically, Greek culture and Judaism are the roots of modern Western civilization. And, in fact, they are similar in that both cultures put great value on understanding the world and the use of one's intellect. The Greeks nurtured the great philosophers and gave the world Plato and Aristotle. The Jews gave the world the Torah, the Talmud, and the basic concept of ethical monotheism. If both sought "Truth" in the world, why were they hostile to one another?

In order to understand the Chanukah story, it is necessary to understand the differences between these two cultures. Here is a basic outline of Judaism versus Hellenism:

Judaism Hellenism
One G-d

The belief in one G-d is the first of the Ten Commandments. Judaism believes not only that there is only one G-d who created everything, but that G-d is actively involved in ruling the world.

Gods, Goddesses and
Who Knows What!

The Greeks believed in a multitude of gods. For each object or state of nature there was a different god or goddess, such as Aphrodite, the goddess of love, and Poseidon, the god of the sea.

Man in the Image of G-d

The Jewish view of the Divine is that G-d has no physical form. The Torah does, however, often speak of G-d in human terms, such as "a jealous G-d" or G-d took us out of Egypt with "an outstretched arm." These are all, however, understood to be metaphors used to help humans relate to G-d by speaking in familiar terms. One of the Thirteen Principle of Faith laid out by Rabbi Moshe ben Maimon (Rambam) is that G-d has no corporeal form.
Gods in the Image of Man

The Greeks gods were almost all conceptualized as humans with supernatural powers. Not only did they possess the same physical image as humankind, but the Greek deities even had human lusts and passions. Greek mythology is filled with images of gods fighting in jealous rivalries, plotting against one another and innocent mortals, and pursuing human lovers. In fact, numerous gods in mythology are born out of god-human relationships. By creating gods who were as spoiled and egocentric as humans, it was easy for a person to negate the will of a god by saying it was the will of a rival god.


The Beauty of Balance

Judaism views the physical body as a partner with the soul. Humankind was created from the physical and from the spiritual (And the L-rd G-d formed the human being of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life. Genesis 2:7). This dual level of creation distinguishes humans from animals (completely of the lower world) and angels (completely of the upper worlds), neither of which have free-will. It is the Jewish belief that people must work throughout their lives to synthesize the physical and the spiritual. Finding this balance is, in Judaism's view, true beauty. Since the Jewish view is that humankind was created in the image of G-d (Genesis 1:27), it is impossible to come to a conclusion that a human may supplement the Divine.

Beauty as Ideal

Greek culture placed the highest value on the physical and gave the world the idea that beauty is, in itself, a supreme ideal. Epitomizing this worship of the physical was the Greek passion for athletics. Among their first actions, the Greeks built gymnasiums in every city they conquered. The Greek athletics were held in the nude, highlighting the beauty of the human being. This physical glorification is one example of the Hellenistic view of nature as supreme. The attitude that the greatness of the human being ruled over the belief in the power of their gods, culminated in Plato's view that there was a Divine creation, and and then the world was left to run itself.


These differences created a clash of cultures. The Greeks could not understand why the Jews did not instantly embrace their culture, which catered to the human's physical desires. They were infuriated by the Jewish refusal to accept Hellenism. In their need to rid(ofcourse how convenient) the world of Judaism, they singled out three mitzvot (commandments): The sanctification of the new month, the Sabbath, and circumcision. Here's why:

Rosh Chodesh/the Sanctification of the New Month - The Jewish people follow a lunar calendar and the very first commandment to the Jewish people in the Torah is: "This month shall be yours as the first of months." This commandment instructs Jews to sanctify the beginning of each new month, when the moon first reappears in the sky. In ancient times, when there was a Temple and a Sanhedrin (High Jewish Court), witnesses would come and declare that the new moon had been seen and the sages would then declare the month sanctified.

What then could be the problem with setting a calendar? When the Jews sanctified the new moon, it, in effect, stated to the world that G-d is in control of time. The month was not declared based on the counting of days, but rather based on the appearance of the new moon, according to G-d's commandment of how the months should be calculated. Since the Greeks wished to show that humankind was in control of nature, they felt threatened by the Jewish concept of Divinely ordained time. Also, by denying the Jews the ability to sanctify the new month, they inhibited the proper celebration of the Jewish holidays, which are based on dates which start with the declaration of the start of each new month.

The Sabbath - "Six days shall you work and do all your labor, but the seventh day is Shabbat for the Lord your G-d. On it, you shall do no [creative] work." The seventh day is the Jewish Sabbath on which a Jew does no work. Why did the Greeks have a problem with a day of rest? The Hellenistic culture was a center of great creativity. From ancient Greek traditions, the Western world has inherited a remarkable legacy of literature, sculpture, philosophy, and architecture. Through their marvelous creations, the Greeks proclaimed their might over the world. Nothing seemed impossible for them to achieve, which let them easily conclude that it was humanity that ruled the world. The idea of taking one day to let G-d run the world negated the Greek belief in their own control. It also forced them to acknowledge how lightly they treated their own deities, while the Jews were willing to set aside an entire day to their one deity

Circumcision - Remember, the Greeks idealized the beauty of the physical form, particularly the male body, as can be seen in so many of their sculptures. The idea that the Jews would willing mar the body was outrageous to them (of course, leaving a baby to die from exposure wasn't a problem). On a deeper level, however, circumcision represents humanity's ability to have control over one's physical self. The Greeks believed in fulfilling all of their passions, in contrast to Judaism's devotion to self discipline. While Judaism teaches humankind to strive to be like G-d, the Greeks created gods who acted with less dignity than many humans. Remember, it was Greek mythology that created nymphs and satyrs, philandering gods and promiscuous goddesses. They abhorred circumcision because it focused on the fact that a person is capable of channeling his/her passions.



This was taken from National Jewish Outreach Program
| National Jewish Outreach Program | (http://www.njop.org/html/Chanvs.html)

Greeks vs. Torah
by Rabbi Nota Schiller

The Greeks, the Midrash relates, darkened the eyes of the Jews with their decrees, saying to the Jews, "Write upon the horn of an ox that you have no portion in the G-d of Israel." What did the Greeks mean by this very cryptic decree? How does this decree epitomize their dark designs against the Jewish People?
Approximately 150 years before the Maccabees, a Hellenistic king in Alexandria ordered the translation of the Written Torah into Greek. In a sense, his need to become appraised of the Jewish world view and endow his massive Alexandrian library with Torah wisdom was a compliment to the Jewish People.

Miraculous events attended the translation: Each of the scholars summoned to Alexandria emerged from his private cubicle with an identical Greek translation.

Nevertheless, the translation of the seventy, the Septuagint, was a tragic moment for the Jewish People, a tragedy our Sages describe as "three days of darkness" which descended upon the world. What was the tragedy?

The Jewish People either exist as a separate entity or cease to exist. Anything mitigating or threatening our monopoly on Torah depreciates our ability to protect our uniqueness as a people. As soon as we share that monopoly with others, the Torah becomes merely another source of wisdom, another culture, another subject in the university catalogue. Ultimately we are to impact the world community, but only through maintaining the integrity of uniqueness will that impact come about.

One thing diminished the tragedy: Only the Written Torah was shared. The Oral Torah remained the exclusive property of the Jewish People, its transmission still necessitating the Teacher-Student relationship.

When I was in yeshiva in Baltimore, many of the boys took courses at Johns Hopkins University. The Semitic Studies Department was then headed by William F. Albright. Clutching a photocopied page of the Talmud, the frustrated Albright once approached one of the yeshiva boys and said: "I've translated the text and correctly identified the etymology of every single word on this page; but I can't for the life of me understand what it's saying!"

Albright's problem was not accidental. It was anticipated and orchestrated by our Sages. They knew that if an Albright could understand the Oral Torah, then Torah as a product of transmission from scholar to disciple, with the particular approach and perspective of the Jewish People, would end. We would not need a Chaim Berlin, a Torah Vodaas, or a Ponevezh. If we are no longer the sole guardians of the Torah, our uniqueness and purpose as a people are eclipsed. To mitigate the quality and specialness of our purpose is counter-productive for the nations of the world.

When, 150 years after the Septuagint, the Greeks said "Write upon the horn of an ox that you have no portion in the G-d of Israel" they were in effect saying "Give us the Oral Torah! Just as you translated the Bible, now write down Torah she'beal peh and grant us access to it as well. As long as that part of the Torah remains oral, no one else can approach it!"

The roots of conflict between the Greek world view and the Torah world view can be seen in the Book of Genesis: Emerging from the ark, Noah became drunk and compromised himself. Shem and Yefes, seeing their father's shame, took a garment, walked backwards to avoid gazing on Noah, and covered him. The Sages explain that it was Shem who initiated this action; but, walking backwards with a blanket draped over his shoulder was a tricky business, and when Yefes saw that Shem could not take action alone, he helped. At select times in history Shem and Yefes cooperate. For most of history the relationship is defined by conflict. The ideal situation is expressed in the blessing awarded to Yefes - "Yishkon B'ohaley Shem" - "He shall dwell in the tents of Shem." The aesthetic should be in the service of the true.

Yefes is the progenitor of the Greeks. Yefes perceived his father's indignation on the aesthetic level, as something distasteful and aesthetically base. The action he took to correct the situation was merely cosmetic. He did not see the violation as essentially evil, his action was optional; if necessary, he was available to participate. But he wasn't the one to initiate the action because it just wasn't that important to him.

Shem, on the other hand, is the progenitor of Abraham. Shem experienced his father's indignity as evil, and a suffering to be assuaged through an elementally good act, an act which - in and of itself - positively effects his own soul. Shem wanted the mitzvah, the very execution of which has a nourishing consequence. Hence, he initiated the action.

From ancient Greece through the age of chivalry, and even in the cowboy/hero movies of our generation, you find the following scene: two protagonists meet in the middle of the street or town square at high noon to duel. As long as one gives the other a fair chance to draw, he may shoot him down. Whether the opponent is evil is irrelevant; a fair chance is all that counts.

The Jew, however, rejects the "fair chance" ideal. Rather, if you face an evil opponent, a Stalin or a Hitler, you shoot him in the back. Whereas, when facing a man who is not essentially evil, you have no right to kill him just because you give him a fair chance.

If man is created in the image of G-d, then life has essential value. If man was not created in the image of G-d, however, man must reduce the gnawing emptiness, the absence of Right and Wrong, by instead turning life into a game, a showdown where "fair chance" resembles truth. Some people play checkers, others chess. Some people play poker, others bridge. The more involved the game the deeper man can engage his intellect - but only to focus less upon life's meaningless because life in the godless Greek mind is essentially a game. We simulate a kind of dignity by honoring the rules of the game.

All the world is reduced to aesthetics and a game in this Greek world view. But the Jew says no, that when G-d encountered man through the medium of prophecy, man was charged with the mission to fulfill a universal role, the performance of which is judged at the individual, communal, and national level.

Historically, at Chanukah, the Jews warred with the Greeks, yet there is no megillah, no written work chronicling that battle. Why? Because it is a story that must be transmitted orally, for at the center of this battle was the Greeks' attempt to destroy the Oral Torah. Instead of being conquered, we persevered and created a new holiday that could only have been orchestrated through the mechanism of the Oral Torah.

The blessing we say when lighting the Chanukah lights is "…Who has sanctified us with His commandments and has commanded us to light the flame of Chanukah." Where are we commanded? Which verse in the Torah mandates such? The oblique origin of this mitzvah is its very strength: Because the Torah endows our Sages with the initiative in each generation to legislate for the Jewish People, a mitzvah such as Chanukah symbolizes the power of the Oral Torah. That which the Greeks sought to extinguish is symbolized in the light that illuminates the darkness of exile.

Each holiday that Jews approach is like a way station along the turnpike of history. The largest distance on the highway had been between Succos and Pesach, between which there was no holiday to stop off and refuel. In the darkness of exile, G-d in His wisdom provided us with two more fueling stations, Chanukah and Purim. When we celebrate Chanukah, we celebrate a holiday that reminds us that it is the wisdom and genius of the Jew, expressed and refined through the Oral Torah, that makes us Jewish.

Sources:

Haemek Davar, Parshas Shmos
Maurice Samuel, The Gentleman and the Jew

Website:Ohr Somayach :: Chanukah :: Greeks vs. Torah (http://ohr.edu/yhiy/article.php/1327)

There are many more articles in this website that condemn the Helllenic way fo thinking. Its basic philosphy is that Greeks deprived man of anything good, and set out to make man be above God with its aesthetic beliefs, and we made Gods world a virtual reality......how far from this view are the Greeks is as far are the Jews from any rspect for real intellect and the love of freedom for soul in its endless search for the truth!

The Hanukkah festival was instituted by Judah Maccabee, and its celebration is that they got rid of Greek influences? What kind of celebration is this? There are no sources that signify Greeks brought harm to them , none!

They only thing is that Jews started to embrace the 12 Gods and some saw this as threat to there National identity, fair enough. But there was no forcing as they say! as a matter of fact it is known around 90 B.C Jews had a civil war! They mebraced our ways, and there where those who apposed it, that is all. I find it highly disrespectful that Greeks, even in there holy scriptures have such a dark image.And yet on our side, we have no books that condemn these people, that mock there style or philosophy!

Heres a reference of Antiochus when he entered the land of the holy from Wiki:

In a spirit of revenge, he organized an expedition against Jerusalem, which he destroyed; he put many of its inhabitants to death most cruelly. He had soldiers enter the Jewish Temple and slaughter a pig (which was considered "unclean" by the Jews) on the Altar of the Lord. They set the pig ablaze and then took the meat and tried to make some Jewish men eat it. The men refused and he cut their tongues out, scalped them, cut off their hands and feet, and burnt them on the Altar of the Lord. After this, the Jews began the war of independence under their Maccabean leaders, defeating the armies that Antiochus sent against them. Enraged at this, Antiochus is said to have marched against them in person, threatening to exterminate the nation; but, on the way, he suddenly died (164 BC). The exact causes of the Jewish revolt, and of Antiochus' response to it, are uncertain; the Jewish accounts are in the Books of the Maccabees, and the successful revolt is commemorated by the holiday of Hanukkah.
The Jews he oppressed mockingly referred to him as Antiochus Epimanes ("The Mad One") in a play of his name Epiphanes [1]

Contradiction is all i can say here, there revolt is uncertain???You can see that obviously this line doesnt fit with the clear detail that is given to us by what happened to those who didnt convert to Hellenism. I mean why uncertain? Because this wiki article was edited thats why. The only real source is books written by Jews called the Maccabees
It amazes how un reliable Wiki can be, since Jews can wonder and adjust things as they see fit. Scalped them....now where Indians too.

These are all bullshit, one major bullshit is that the Ancient Greeks had a lunar calendar as far as the months were concerned and a solar as far as the days are concerned.

The Jews have been trying to show that it was the Greeks who attacked them first religiously, in this attempt they are inventing myths. The Greeks never bothered neither to convert them to the Greek Mysteries(which were not forceful for the Greeks either), nor to teach them about their religion. Nor to take away their calendar and its divine inspiration...Jewish myth-invention is truly astonishing.

The story is simple, Antiochus was on war and in judeah the Priests were fighting each other valiantly, not to mention the Priests(Levis) that were fighting each other with their armies were actually brothers, the King found out that there is mess going on he left Syria if i remember correct went back to Judeah and told them to shut up and relax, thus he forbade the Priests from their duties(Observance of the Sabbath) in order to stop the Power tripping of the Jewish priests, not because of all the crap these rabbies are talking about. And the Greeks never thought of why are the Jews not taking up our culture, oh shit, instead the Jews were taking up the culture, massively and without being forced to do so, instead the Greeks actually did not really want the Jews to learn their doings, their religious doings, not the superficial ones, like Sport.

Below are the reasons for the Jewish revolt, not the crap the rabbis are inventing in order to show that there was some kind of intrigue between Judaism and Hellinism. The religious intrigue was by them not by us, we never bothered with their religion until ofc it came into the political domain and the King risked his domain.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Soon after he assumed the Seleucid throne (175 BCE), Antiochus filled the vacant office of high priest of the Jewish temple state in Jerusalem (which his father had brought under Seleucid control a quarter of a century earlier) with a Hellenized Judean priest who took the Greek name Jason, but replaced him in 172 BCE with his brother Menelaus, on promise of greater tribute. To curry Antiochus' support, these rival priests completely Hellenized Jerusalem, promoting Greek culture & building a gymnasium for Olympic sport.

While Antiochus was conquering Egypt (169 BCE), Jason's forces recaptured Jerusalem & slaughtered supporters of Menelaus. Returning from Egypt (167 BCE) Antiochus sacked Jerusalem & rebuilt it as a Seleucid fortress. Torah observance was outlawed & the imperial cult brought into the Jewish temple itself with the erection of a statue of Antiochus as Zeus with a Hellenistic altar of sacrifice. Jews who resisted were subject to execution.

Antiochus returned in triumph to Antioch (166 BCE) but soon had to turn his attention to more serious challenges to his suzerainty on his eastern border in campaigns against Armenia & the Parthians. He fell ill & died while in Persia
(164 BCE).

References: Josephus, Antiquities 12.234-246, 257-270, 293-297, 316-320, 354-361.
______, Against Apion 1.34, 2.80-84,90-102.
Livy, History of Rome 41.20-25, 42.6, 45.11-13.
Appian, History of Rome: Syrian Wars 39, 45.

The more involved the game the deeper man can engage his intellect - but only to focus less upon life's meaningless because life in the godless Greek mind is essentially a game. We simulate a kind of dignity by honoring the rules of the game.


The Greek sages never bothered, to respond to such ridiculous claims, they never bothered to prioritize their God(s) against the Jewish mediocrity, and that has allowed space for these Jewish myth-inventors to write their story as they wish, the fact that you bother with these mediocrities is not good.

The supremacy of the Greek religion is evident from a very simple fact.

There was no must, no must for baptism, no must for initiation, there was no fear, there were no sheep and no shepherds, there were no heresies. This shows crystal-clearly the fear of the Jews and the non-fear of the Greeks, their name is another testament to this they are Israel(confused with EL, on the contrary we are the Ellin.) Their myths that we are godless, that we persecuted them, that we were Homosexuals, that and that are just myths they invent the myth about Yefes, the myth about Alexander, are all just ways to verify their mediocre existence and supply with arguments their flock that they are the real shit. They fear and thus they lie and continue to live their lives based on lies andte fact all these bullshit are written in the Book of Maccabees, the Book of the Levite Priests, who do not even allow their flock to pray is further evidence about the myth invention.

Yep Euklid is correct we never did nor bothered with them as long as they were paying their tribunes they were free to do what they wanted.It's the Hellenized Jews that aggravated the hard nationalists Hebrews who didn't want their land & people becoming Greek in consciousness.We opened gymansia and erected temples for the Greeks to train and worship not to convert others to do so.

Im glad you both see the truth.....ofcourse there is an important element which you both have forgoten, and that is the Roman's intentions... we dont need to go there, we know the outcome.

Euklid did you see the whole section dedicated to Greek philosophy and how they challange every aspect of aesthetics? I dont care about the people man, they are human, they will defend there mother land as we would. But lies are lies and truth is truth. What they write about us is not fair, alas, im happy we never did write anything about them, it shows exactly how barbaric they where in mind.

Why wasnt the Alexandrian library built in Hellas, man, at least it would have lasted longer! But, i guess the philoanthropos that Ptolemy was, he wanted to give access to real knowledge for everyone.

I reckon Theogenis would have gone mad in Israel.

Im not sure i trust this article, alas, its interesting....enjoy

HEBREW IS GREEK

In 1982, a suppressed, ages-old, historical truth, was resurrected through the publication of a book by Becket Publications of Oxford, England (ISBN O 7289 0013 O). The book, published in English, and titled Hebrew is Greek, was written by lawyer, linguist and researcher, Joseph Yahuda, the son of Isaac Benjamin Ezekiel Yahuda, an ethnic Jew and longtime researcher and linguist. Though Jewish both by nationality and religion, J. Yahuda could be considered a Greek-- according to Isocrates' definition of a Hellene [see definition below. ed.], since his decades-long, unbiased, and meticulously thorough search reveals the linguistic relationship of numerous groups of words in Hebrew, Greek and Arabic. Work that was published without fear or hesitation by a scholar whose only concern was for the discovery of the truth.

Following the book's publication, and while only a limited number of copies circulated for a few fortunate individuals, the book disappeared from the face of the earth. It was as if an invisible hand intervened and blocked its circulation. It cannot be found at any public library, it is not sold at any bookstore on earth, not even in a curiosity or antique shop. [Rare book dealers, in the U.S. and the U.K., have told TGR that there have been inquiries after the book, but that they have been unable to locate a copy anywhere. ed.] The only information available about the book throughout the world is its title. No book reviews on this book were ever published, neither positive nor negative, moderate or offensive. Nor, it seems, has there been any other evaluation of the work. One must eventually come to the inescapable conclusion that every one of the copies originally published was somehow withdrawn through some sort of a secret operation with a global reach.

Concerns posed by another Jewish intellectual who wrote the preface of the book.

The research published in the book covers 718 pages. The introduction was written by Jewish professor Saul Levin, though no enthusiasm on his part was evident in his introduction. He admits that following the 1977 publication of his book entitled, The Indo-European and Semitic Languages, J. Yahuda got in touch with him, and they maintained a fruitful relationship through correspondence, though they never actually met in person. The reason for the interest in J. Yahuda expressed by S. Levin, as he himself confessed, was the publication of several writings by J. Yahuda, such as the La Palestine Revisite, written in 1928, Law and Life According to Hebrew Thought (1932) and This Democracy (n.d.), published by Pitman. Professor Levin learned of the contents of the book [from the proofs which were sent to him from time to time] for which he wrote the introduction gradually, as it had already been sent to the printer. As Professor Levin disclosed: "It was J. Yahuda's congeniality and my inherent curiosity that did not allow me to refuse the writing of the introduction." [For a better understanding as to why Professor Levin was not enthusiastic about writing the introduction, consider the fact that] the black Jew, Martin Bernal, has stated: "Saul Levin was among the many Jewish individuals who worked on the publication of [my] book, Black Athena." A book which has been deemed to be a disgrace and a discredit to serious scholarship by the vast majority of specialists who have read it.

Joseph Yahuda speaks about his work

In the preface of his book, J. Yahuda notes:

This ecumenical research will be reviewed by three separate specialists, one for each language researched, although each specialist does have knowledge of the other two languages. This is not an error committed only by me. I attempted repeatedly, yet unsuccessfully, to find more scholars who would be willing to assist me in my quests. As an example of what I was up against, at the very beginning of an hours-long meeting, one potential colleague exclaimed: "All of this is garbage and we are all wasting our time." My answer was: "Both you, and I, will be judged for the words we say, whenever we discuss my work." I hold no hostility or bitterness because of such small-minded opposition to my belief. In fact, during the progress of my research, I twice attempted to arouse [this man's] interest, but in vain. A little while after the meeting referred to above, I mentioned his degrading comment to Christodoulos Hourmouzios, a graduate of the University of Athens, and an acknowledged specialist on Homer, and he said: ' I think you are one of the greatest linguists I know'; he promised complete cooperation with me. Unfortunately, before we could begin our work, he passed away.

"There were others who admitted that they had been convinced; that something did really exist in my theory. However, they did think that my belief in the correspondence of Hebrew with Greek was rather exaggerated. They said I was too ambitious, and suggested, for my own good, that I expect less and adopt a 'less controversial view.' One of them, Sir Leon Simon (A British Lord of Jewish descent), a known classicist who knew Hebrew, attended my first lecture on the issue on the evening of Jan. 14th, 1959.He did this even though he was old and had to travel a long distance in bad weather and heavy fog. He introduced me, briefly and carefully, not wanting to commit himself to any decision until the end of my speech. Then, before the audience was asked to pose questions, he said the following, which I noted: 'I don't believe that everyone will agree with everything J. Yahuda has told us, as he may have thought that everyone understood what he was saying. Despite any doubts that may exist, I am sure of one thing. He has resolved a mystery that had created confusion for scholars for the past 2.000 years. For, if he is correct in stating that many Greek words that begin with sk were transformed in Hebrew as if sk was a digraph [a combination of two letters to make one simple sound. ed.], or one of the two letters lost, then Homer was not wrong when he left the vrachi [ abbreviated ] vowel at the beginning of the word Skamandros, as in his famous line: 'Ον Ξανθόν καλεουσι θεοί, άνδρες δε Σκάμανδρον'. [The Gods called Xanthos, mortal men Skamandros. ed.] I also had a fruitful interview with a scholar of international fame, which was then followed by a series of exchanges of correspondence. This correspondence ceased after he sent me a note, wherein he wrote: 'It could also be possible that you would say that the English word ball comes from the Greek βάλλω, or that you discover a connection between chow and show since chows are exhibited at shows.

"The result was that I was obliged to fall back on my own sources, and to depend only on my own efforts, thus devoting my free time to this research for the past 30 years or more. Two things kept me going: the unfailing support of my wife, Cecile, and the unprecedented emotions we felt with every new discovery. When my wife was asked by a friend how she was sure of my work, since she knew neither Greek nor Hebrew, she answered: 'But, I know my husband. He hates speculating, he always insists on finding proof. As a lawyer, he is able to evaluate this proof. He tells me that he has plenty of proof that is convincing, and I believe him.' There is truly a plethora of 'proof that is convincing' which I have attempted to make available, not only to those technically specialized, but also to interested, non-specialist researchers."

Yahuda realizes the significance of Greek Civilization

"I was somewhat familiar with the Bible, as stated above. My brother, Solomon, and I learned the New Testament in Hebrew translation from a copy that my father had, as part of his personal library. For years, the distant Biblical past was alive in my mind: I lived with the vision of the pyramids to such an extent, and my passion for the Bible was so great, that I developed hostile feelings for the Greeks and Romans. Strangely, this hostility did not involve the Egyptians, who were our enemies, had been the enemies of our forefathers and had so deeply influenced post-Biblical Hebrew. Neither had I been able to learn more than the necessary Latin needed for my law education and practice. However, my feelings for the Greeks and Romans have changed radically since then. Now I realize that our differences were similar to those of a civil war, as fratricidal as the taking of Troy had been, for I became convinced that the Jews are of Greek descent. This revolutionary transformation took place around the time I was thirty years old, following the publishing of my book Law and Life according to Hebrew Thought. That year (1932), I became interested in biology as a 'hobby'. During my haphazard study of the issue, I came across various Greek words that were strikingly similar to the Hebrew words of the Bible, and I drew the conclusion that the Greeks had borrowed them from us. I began debating the idea of whether or not I should one day begin a systematic comparison of the two languages. At that time, I was still fascinated with the more traditional studies, and, like everyone else, I believed without a doubt that the Semitic languages were Semitic and the Aryan languages were Aryan. These two could not be mixed. At the same time, though, I was thinking that it would be interesting to collect and deconstruct a complete list of groups of similar words so as to demonstrate the degree of influence of Hebrew on Greek at the time before Alexander the Great (considering that the reverse influence became stronger following his conquests). I knew very little of where this research would lead me and what the results would show.

"I had such little knowledge of Greek that all I knew were the first letters of the alphabet, knowledge that I had acquired by chance during my studies of mathematics and geometry. I remember asking my friend Gerald Emanuel, in a teashop in 1932, to write the whole Greek alphabet on the bottom of a half-written page. The years passed, but when I published my book Biology and New Medicine in 1951, I then had the opportunity to spend all of my free time on researching those possible links that I suspected existed between Biblical Hebrew and Greek. Following the acquisition of some rudimentary knowledge of Greek grammar, I submerged into the translation of the Septuagint, solely based on my memory of the meaning of the numerous pages that I had chosen to read. Then I read Homer, comparing him to the Bible. One page from the translation of the Iliad, one page from the Old Testament, line for line, page by page; I started with Genesis and the first book of the Iliad, along with the last book of the Odyssey and the 2nd book of 'Chronicles.' Day after day, the list of similar words grew longer, until it reached 600 words -- including words related to different views and activities of life -- which could not be attributed only to the borrowing factor. In any case, history has not witnessed circumstances where such elaborate borrowing would be possible on such a large scale. I was convinced that this phenomenon went past the limits of borrowing, reaching the limits of a genetic relationship. The door of genealogical descent stood before me and I could not attempt to pass through it or climb above it. It should open freely and widely and the key to this was the grammar. The only grammatical characteristics that I knew of that were common to both Greek and Hebrew, concerned the definite article and the dual number nouns [count nouns. ed.]. I stopped reading and began thinking and re-thinking the results of my non-processed research. I used the materials I had: analyzing, classifying, comparing these with the Biblical variations and the dialectic interchanges of the Greek letters, selecting specific words to be compared. Thus, my theory began to develop. Some of the Greek dialectic letters could be used interchangeably, such as the letters 'k' and 't', 'o' and 'a', 's' and 'd.' I also noted a curious transformation with Hebrew words: a suffix to a Greek word changed to a prefix in a Hebrew word. Early on during my research, I tested the exactness of the words and verified their meanings. As the number of tests increased, the more effective my research became, and the confidence in my theory rose.

"From the beginning, I based a lot of my work on Arabic. With my theory, it became possible for me to correct the translation of the Septuagint, using the Septuagint and the translation of the Bible, using the Bible. These discoveries cured me of my dyslexia in relationship to Greek and Hebrew and made me capable of reading a Hebrew word as if it had been a variation of the word. I formed a series of phonetic and morphology rules. I gradually gathered a number of valuable facts. Some examples are that the declension dotiki [dative] exists in Hebrew, that the masculine plural is the same in Hebrew and Greek, and that, in general, a compound Greek verb is equivalent to a Hebrew compound verb. I estimate that 9 out of each 10 words of the [Jewish] Bible can be proved to have a purely Greek equivalent. Many issues were resolved which prove that the Greeks and Jews hold some customs and religious convictions in common, whereas the Hebrew language is proven to be richer and more beautiful than believed until today because of the existence of these groups of words. This whole matter is, in practice, consistent with the following two proposals: Biblical Hebrew is Greek; and, the Jews are Asian Greeks. In reality, the conclusion of this massive, extended and complicated research can be summarized in the following brief sentence: Hebrew is 'Greek wearing a mask.'"

An example for the rest of his co-religionists

As already stated, the research of J. Yahuda restores part of a universal truth that has fallen into oblivion for millennia. Not only is the Hebrew language "Greek wearing a mask" (in other words, a distorted version of Greek), but, as we have announced at international conventions, there is no other language on the face of the earth except Greek. A few years ago, we made this statement at a convention of the Literary Society Parnassos, titled: "The Ecumenical Character of the Greek Language," where we used texts and images to prove this statement. All other languages are just descendants or distorted dialects of Greek, adopted by the peoples.

Finally, we present one of the tables compiled by the undaunted scholar, J. Yahuda, where Hebrew letters, along with their pronunciation in Hebrew appear on the left, the equivalent Greek letters and their pronunciation in the middle, and the Arabic letters and pronunciation on the right. In the preface, just above the table shown below, Yahuda's first theorem is written, to wit: "The Greek and Hebrew alphabets demonstrate striking similarity insofar as the order of the letters is concerned, their names, their shapes and their pronunciation."






http://www.grecoreport.com/images/Hebrew_symbols.jpg



We cannot omit to express our admiration for this great man, who, defying the forces of darkness and medieval ignorance, proved to be an unbiased scholar, unburdened by preconceived dogma and purposeful deception. A man who broke the bonds of mischievous misinformation so prevalent in [the past] century, and dared to defy traditional nationalistic and racist fanaticism while declaring a revolution against the international forces of power. He has achieved the level of a true Hellene. After discovering the truth, he struggled to make it known, he revealed it and he published it without fear. His acts were acts of patriotism, since he has raised his compatriots to a level approaching the Greeks. He called them "Asian Greeks." His life and work truly pronounce him to be of equal value to a Greek, in contrast with those of his compatriots who have denounced him and his book. Is it because they are afraid or is it because they are unable to follow in his footsteps?

In Conclusion

Yahuda has scientifically proven that both Hebrew and Arabic are Greek in their origin, as is true with the other languages of the world. It is to be regretted that the speakers of this distorted Greek dialect do not take advantage of this, so as to elevate themselves to free and Christ-loving Greeks, as their compatriot Yahuda has done. Many of them prefer to live in the dark; It is a fact to be pitied that some are fanatics who hate everything Greek, especially her history and her language. In the past, many such men appeared in the Roman State as politicians, academics or administrators in the public sector, and fought against everything that was Greek. Nowadays, such men cooperate with the global powers that are propelling the world toward destruction. A destruction that can only be avoided by a rebirth of the only salvation for humanity: Greek Civilization!

Source

This article was written by Attorney, linguist, and researcher, Konstantinos G. Georganas, for Davlos. Feb. 1999 issue, pp.12931-12937. (Translation by staff. Emphasis not in original text was added.)



Note: The great rhetorician, Isocrates (436-338 B.C.), gave the following definition of a Hellene in his Panagyricus:



Athens has so far outrun the rest of mankind in thought

and speech that her disciples are the masters of the rest,

and it is due to her that the word "Greek" is not so

much a term of birth as it is of mentality, and is applied

to a common culture rather than a common descent (50).

And there is this...i must admit, this is very interesting and i searched some of the words, and Greeks do have them......

Jewish symbols are Greek

Linguist and researcher J. Yahuda, the author of "Hebrew is Greek," manages to prove with scientific accuracy that both Hebrew and Arabic are Greek in origin. This revelation broke a three thousand-year-old misconception. Having great knowledge of Hebrew, Arabic, French and English, as well as knowing the Old Testament and half the Koran by heart, Jahuda studied the translation of the Septuagint and Homer. He made a detailed comparison of these languages over the course of 30 years. He then published his book in 1982. The work of J. Yahuda, which has been analyzed by Davlos in the past, documents the Greekness of the Hebrew language. Realizing the importance of his discovery, Yahuda has worked hard to elevate his people by attempting to prove a relationship with the Greeks. He convincingly demonstrates that 90% of all Hebrew and Arabic words are Greek, and, had he continued his research, would have proved this for 100% of the language.. Not only are the words Greek, but the various symbols that are internationally recognized as Hebrew, are, according to this well-documented study, also Greek.

[What follows are some examples of additional "Hebrew" words and symbols not covered in J. Yahuda's book, but are of unquestionable Greek origin as well. ed.]

The "Hebrew" national emblem

The Hebrew national emblem is Greek. An extensive article was published in the English Encyclopedia of Man, Myth & Magic, under the title "Judaism," by Louis Jacobs, a rabbi at the New Synagogue in London, and a lecturer at Leo Baeck College on rabbinical education. On page 1528 of the weekly issue No, 55, Louis Jacobs' resume is published. He is pictured with a great six-point star in the background. On page 1538 of the article, reference is made to the six-point star, and Rabbi Jacobs states that "the star of David [in Hebrew, "the shield of David", Magen David] was adopted as an emblem of the Zionist organization in 1897 and today is part of the flag of the State of Israel."

The use of the six-point star, as a symbol of the Zionists in 1897 A.D., does not testify to its Jewishness. Nowhere [in ancient Jewish writings] is this symbol mentioned. Just as the so-called "Seal of Solomon" is also never mentioned anywhere. David and his ancestors did not spend any time with astronomy, nor did they produce stone seals. There was no "Seal of Solomon." This one symbol cannot have represented two leaders simultaneously, related or not, with different names and significance. It was either a star (shield) or a seal. If either version is to be considered true, then there would have been no need for its adoption centuries after the reigns of Solomon or David, i.e., in 1897 A.D.

The Greek symbol of the six-point star has had deep symbolism going back to pre-history. It is composed of two equilateral triangles, one of which is upside-down. The equilateral triangle, according to the Hellenic mystics ( the Orphics, Pythagoreans, etc), symbolized God, whereas the isosceles triangle [two sides equal, not three] symbolized the Daemons (secondary divinities between gods and men), and the triangle where no side is equal to another symbolized Humanity. The six-point star describes and is described by the perfect hexagon (this is proved by connecting its points). This perfect hexagon is not only connected to the six-point star, but also to the beehive, which is also made up of perfect hexagons. The relationship of bees to Delphi is shown in that the first temple of this sacred precinct, together with its priestesses, were named melisses [honey bees] This fact is well-documented historically. A few years ago, I was on the island of Thasos, observing the excavations of the French Archaeological School, and I came across two granite plates with engraved beehives. When I spoke to the Director of the French archaeological mission about the significance of these plates, he told me: "We find such plates on all the islands; they are decorative." I commented on the fact that "the ancient Greeks [who made these] were not weavers or decorators, but used their work to symbolize nature and to further their knowledge of nature." The six-point star for the Greeks had a direct relationship with the "Father of all Gods and humans," Zenon or Dias [Zeus].

For many years, it has been wrongly taught that the word "Zeus," when conjugated in the genitive declination becomes του Διός. This is a grammatical distortion, since the root [θεμα] of a word never changes. The genitive form Dios has no nominative case, even though "Deus" does exist. In Latin, the same letters are used to pronounce Deus; this is where the word Θεος came from. All other languages used this name Deus for God: in French, Dieu; in Spanish, Dios; in Irish, Dias; Deutschland (Deu (t)s/(ch)land => Land of Deus, in German; in/dia, for India; Thai/land, for Thailand; Tao for the Chinese, Teo, in Olde English, etc. The existence of these two manifestations of the Father of "Gods and humans alike" is not a redundancy, but demonstrates deep knowledge of the universe. Zeus mates, attracts, fuses. Zeus is fission and repulsion. This knowledge was also demonstrated by our ancestors geographically by the naming of Suez and Said [the city of Port Said]. If one observes a map and reads the names backwards, he sees that Suez = Zeus, and this was the strip of land connecting Asia and Africa until the 19th century when De Lesseps built the Suez Canal. If read backwards Said = Dias, which is a port form in a sharp indentation of the land, namely fission of the land. Thus, the Greeks knew about fusion and fission since the time of Dias. These are the two universal forces that maintain balance and harmony in the universe, and are personified by this dual God, Dias (Zeus-Deus). These two opposite forces are also symbolized by the two equilateral triangles that form the six-pointed star.

Muslims have the the half-moon and the star as their symbol. They, too, were not original in their choice, as these are nothing more than the symbols of the Dioscuri [the sons of Zeus, and the brothers of Helen of Troy]. This ancient Greek symbol can be seen in the museums of the world on coins, reliefs, Etruscan mirrors, etc. As far as the Arabic language is concerned, this too, according to J. Yahuda, also is of Greek origin.

Basic Hebrew words and names are Greek

J. Yahuda did not research all the important Hebrew words or their etymology because, if he had, he would have discovered that even the names that are thought to be representatively Jewish are indisputably Greek, such as the following:

Israel is the name used for the Jewish state; some dictionaries provide the following etymology: Israel = "powerful." What they don't realize, however, is that this word is made up of three Greek words: Is/ra/el, i.e. is = εις or powerful; ra = king; el = sun or Apollo Zeus.
Rabbi is the word used for their priest, in other words "the shepherd." The word's etymology is from the Greek word Ράβδος or Ραβδί, meaning the stick used by the shepherd when leading his flock. This is how Rabbi came to signify the shepherd. Priests and bishops also hold a cane or stick, which symbolizes their power.
Emmanuel is the Jewish name of Christ which is translated as "God with(in) me" without providing the etymology of the word, which is really made up of three Greek words; Εμοί εν Ηλ(ί) or εν εμοί ο Ήλιος or within me is God (Pythagoras' theory).

The revelation of Plutarch is thought-provoking (Ethics V, "On Isis and Osiris"), where the conclusive word Αμήν and the phrase "Αμήν, Αμήν, λέγω υμίν" is derived from the name Αμένθης: in other words "For the Egyptians as well, many other names are also words, and the underworld (Άδην), where they believe that the souls go after death, they call Αμένθην, meaning the name of he who has received and has given." We will be researching later if this name is one of those names that was accepted into another language. The faith of the ancient Greeks and the Christian dogma pertaining to justice being served after death, is expressed through Amenthis. Amenthis or Amen/thi or Αμην/θη or Αμήν δη, thus Amenthis = > Αμήν (give and take).

Cain and Abel are also not Jewish names, as was believed until now; they are composites of two Greek words: Καϊν => Κα ην => Γα ην => Γήινος (earthy, mortal); Abel => Αβ/ελ => Απ/Ελ => απ' Ηλίου=> from the Sun = solar, the heavenly and immortal. The mortal Cain could not murder the immortal Abel. The respective Greek myth on the Dioscuri, Castor and Polydeuces, had not been understood fully. Κάστωρ = Κα/ιστων => Γα/ ιστωρ = earthy; Πολυδεύκης = Πολύ/δευ