Manifesto of the Temporary Government of Macedonia(22 March 1881)

[Jordan Piperkata]

The belief of being descendent from the Ancient Macedonians is based on former communist propoganda started by Joseph Tito(Former dictator of Yugoslavia) so that he could gain access to the Aegean through northern Greece.

So how does this document that is atleast 60 years prior to Titos great Macedonian agenda cope with your statement?

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/955/484webiq4.png
http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/8185/485webvi3.png
From Discourses of Collective Identity in Central and Southeast Europe (1770-1945) edited by Balázs Trencsényi, Michal Kopeček, page 484-485.

I think you have to change your views on what Tito did for the Macedonian people........

[terastios]

So how does this document that is atleast 60 years prior to Titos great Macedonian agenda cope with your statement?

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/955/484webiq4.png
http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/8185/485webvi3.png
From Discourses of Collective Identity in Central and Southeast Europe (1770-1945) edited by Balázs Trencsényi, Michal Kopeček, page 484-485.

I think you have to change your views on what Tito did for the Macedonian people........

OFCOURSE! THAT'S TRUE AND I'M SPEACHLESS!
NOW I'M A BIT CURIOUS WHY THE "MACEDONIANS"VASIL CHOMO AND NIKOLAI TRAIKOF WROTE THIS MANIFESTO...IN ENGLISH!:lol:

MAYBE BECAUSE IT WAS THEIR MOTHERLANGUAGE OR AS IT IS WELL KNOWN
THE OFFICIAL LANGUAGE OF THE OTTOMAN EMPIRE IN 1881 WAS...ENGLISH!:lol::lol:

GET LOST YOU IGNORANT PRWTOPLASMA!:lol::lol::lol:

[Victor]

IVe read two stories about this:
1)ITs a complete fake
2)A Greek resident wrote the parts about ancient history

[Istor]

Those appeals to Macedonian history in the document were just propaganda. An attempt to make all peoples (mainly Greeks) around get united under the banner "Macedonia to the Macedonians".

If those people were Macedonians they should be proud of that campaign that Macedonians did to spread Greek Language and Civilization to the World. They weren't.

[Jordan Piperkata]

OFCOURSE! THAT'S TRUE AND I'M SPEACHLESS!
NOW I'M A BIT CURIOUS WHY THE "MACEDONIANS"VASIL CHOMO AND NIKOLAI TRAIKOF WROTE THIS MANIFESTO...IN ENGLISH!:lol:

MAYBE BECAUSE IT WAS THEIR MOTHERLANGUAGE OR AS IT IS WELL KNOWN
THE OFFICIAL LANGUAGE OF THE OTTOMAN EMPIRE IN 1881 WAS...ENGLISH!:lol::lol:

GET LOST YOU IGNORANT PRWTOPLASMA!:lol::lol::lol:


If you havent noticed the text is taken from a book that is written in english thus making the text a translation into english. The book is "Discourses of Collective Identity in Central and Southeast Europe (1770-1945)" edited by Balázs Trencsényi, Michal Kopeček, page 484-485.

The administrative language in the Ottoman empire was as we all know Turkish.

So who is ignorant, you or me?

[Jordan Piperkata]

Those appeals to Macedonian history in the document were just propaganda. An attempt to make all peoples (mainly Greeks) around get united under the banner "Macedonia to the Macedonians".

If those people were Macedonians they should be proud of that campaign that Macedonians did to spread Greek Language and Civilization to the World. They weren't.


You say it is propaganda aimed towards the greeks in Macedonia but still the document is signed by two SLAVS..... you got me there Istor...... you really did....:wacko:

[Istor]

My comment had two paragraphs.

Those appeals to Macedonian history would be true if made by Greeks.

Did Gruev, Delcev, Tatarcheff and other leaders of VMRO council of Thessaloniki (1893) know anything about themselves being Macedonians??


'She is today nothing more than a geographic notion'

It's obvious that those Slavs used the term Macedonian in geographic meaning.

Can you show us the original text ??

[Spartan]

I am curious Jordan what exactly is that "Temporary government of Macedonia" is?

Has anyone else ever heard of this before?

I have definitely heard of Ilinden and the Krushevo Republic, but first time for this especially in 1881?

[Istor]

Macedonians (Greeks) had such a gov since 1878 Olympus' uprising.

[Xiotis]

So how does this document that is atleast 60 years prior to Titos great Macedonian agenda cope with your statement?

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/955/484webiq4.png
http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/8185/485webvi3.png
From Discourses of Collective Identity in Central and Southeast Europe (1770-1945) edited by Balázs Trencsényi, Michal Kopeček, page 484-485.

I think you have to change your views on what Tito did for the Macedonian people........

Don't you wonder where this 'army' was during the Balkan conflicts only a couple of decades later? Did they all run off and hide in North America and Australia to produce nationalists propagandists such as yourself?

Piperkata, this crap may be able to fly in Maknuts.com where it goes unchallenged but anyone with access to a good library can find this book and put these quotes into context. You have a consistent track record in here of presenting out of context quotes. Do you guys ever tell the truth?

Here is the scholarly summary taken from the text preceeding the manifestos.

Starting from page 481

In turn, the vojvodas tended to think that this would damage the Macedonian cause both internationally and internally. As a result of these disagreements the name of the league changed many times: the Bulgaro-Macedonian, the MacedonoBulgarian, and, finally, the Macedonian League. In some ways this reflects a conflict between archaic local patriotism and one of its derivatives—modem nationalism. Such referential divisions (Macedonian/Bulgarian Greek... ) within the definition of Macedonian identity persisted long enough to be called paradigmatic. The present 'Manifesto,' one of the several documents issued by the Macedonian League (including a draft constitution for a projected Macedonian state) seems to indicate the dominant position of the vojvodas in the political leadership of the League.
The 'Temporary Government—Unity.' established at the same time as the League but in a different part of Macedonia (the southwestern areas close to the Greek border), had similar national and political visions as the 'Macedonian League.' This temporary government was elected by a secret 'National Assembly' held in May 1880 close to Lake Ostrovo (Vegorida). The frequent references in the Manifesto to the glory of ancient Macedonia and Alexander the Great, as well as the biographies of certain of its founders (Leonidas Vulgarise for instance) reveal Hellenic influence, both official and unofficial. The most interesting aspect is the composition of the delegates who participated in this convention, representing almost all the religious and cultural identities in Macedonia: there were Albanians, Turks, Greeks. and Vlachs as well as Slavic adherents of all political orientations, that is, Serbian, Bulgarian and Greek.

Not much was known about this 'National Assembly' and its temporary government, and unflattering rumors circulated about its members, depicting them as being either Greek or Russian agents. However, their Manifesto bears specific identity-building accents with strong appeals to unity (addressed to all peoples of Macedonia), so different from the other programs of internal exclusion reducing Macedonia to the field of various irredentisms. It is worth mentioning that in June 1880 the representatives of the Temporary Government met with the leadership of the Macedonian League and decided to cooperate for the common cause. However. both of these committees, in spite of threats of an armed uprising, would be remembered by history only through the legacy of the documents they issued.


Bulgaria and Greece sought to avoid getting into trouble with their powerful Ottoman neighbor. Without their logistic help the revolutionary committees, situated in marginal areas, found that their armed forces quickly disolved when discovered by Turkish units. Nevertheless, both the 'League' and the 'Unity' government won a respectable position within the historiographic discourse on nation-building in the Republic of Macedonia. They are considered as precursors of the very idea of an autonomous Macedonian state. Their programmatic documents are considered to be the first step in the evolution of a separate Macedonian political thinking based on civic patriotism, and not on the ideals and practices characterizing a nation-state project. Appearing in the 1980s, these documents were immediately appropriated by the national canon-builders; their civic component being considered rather as a step in the evolution of the national idea than having any intrinsic value.


I would like to point out:

1. The delegates consisted of "Albanians, Turks, Greeks. and Vlachs as well as Slavic adherents of all political orientations, that is, Serbian, Bulgarian and Greek". NO 'ETHNIC MACEDONIANS'!!

2. These manifestos are considered "to be the first step in the evolution of a separate Macedonian political thinking ".

Now if this doesn't destroy the crackpot theory that 'ethnic Macedonians' lived in the region for centuries I don't know what does. Thank you for bringing this text to our attention Pipkerkata. Now go back to maknuts and wallow with your nationalist buddies.

[Tsontos]

Xiotis telling a Skopjian to visit a library is like telling a pig to visit an bacon factory :lol:

[Spartan]

That was one Great post Xiotis! I am curious as to what will Piperkata respond with!

[terastios]

Xiotis telling a Skopjian to visit a library is like telling a pig to visit an bacon factory :lol:

:lol::clap2::clapping::clapping::lol:

Re xestika pano mou apo ta gelia!

[Jordan Piperkata]

Don't you wonder where this 'army' was during the Balkan conflicts only a couple of decades later? Did they all run off and hide in North America and Australia to produce nationalists propagandists such as yourself?

Piperkata, this crap may be able to fly in Maknuts.com where it goes unchallenged but anyone with access to a good library can find this book and put these quotes into context. You have a consistent track record in here of presenting out of context quotes. Do you guys ever tell the truth?

Here is the scholarly summary taken from the text preceeding the manifestos.

Starting from page 481



I would like to point out:

1. The delegates consisted of "Albanians, Turks, Greeks. and Vlachs as well as Slavic adherents of all political orientations, that is, Serbian, Bulgarian and Greek". NO 'ETHNIC MACEDONIANS'!!

2. These manifestos are considered "to be the first step in the evolution of a separate Macedonian political thinking ".

Now if this doesn't destroy the crackpot theory that 'ethnic Macedonians' lived in the region for centuries I don't know what does. Thank you for bringing this text to our attention Pipkerkata. Now go back to maknuts and wallow with your nationalist buddies.


1. You do realize that this document is reffered to as Hellenic propaganda aimed towards the Slavic inhabitants of Macedonia, thus you Greeks at the time had NO PROBLEM to give the Slavs of Macedonia the nationallity of Macedonians.

2. Ofcourse, why would they not be, did you think that Mavrocordato, Ypsilatnti or Capodistrias just found a bunch of Greeks in Morea when they started to liberate it from the Ottomans? The people had to be reawakened politically and nationally, so did all peoples of the Balkans. Please do not consider this a special Macedonian slav charactersitic.

3. The document is aimed towards the people of Macedonia, not the people of Greece.

[Tsontos]

1. You do realize that this document is reffered to as Hellenic propaganda aimed towards the Slavic inhabitants of Macedonia, thus you Greeks at the time had NO PROBLEM to give the Slavs of Macedonia the nationallity of Macedonians.

Yep. Greeks encouraged a Macedonian identity among the Slavs and why? Because the Slavs of Macedonia were Bulgarian lingusitically and in terms of ethnic consciousness. In the minds of the Greeks the Bulgarians were the only threat to our Macedonia.

The vast majority of Slavs in Macedonia considered themselves Bulgarian all the way up until WW2. A few Macedonists (Slavs) proffessing a Macedonian conciousness since the late 19th century wont change that fact.

Why cant you answer what Xiotis has said? A little further look into this on your part before you posted it would have shown that Greeks, Vlachs, Albanians and even Moslems in Macedonia were behind this document.

Why is it you are incapable to directly answer questions asked of you?

[akritas]

The context (as Xiotis post it) written from the writer(s) of the book and show cleary that Piperkidis claims are arbitaries.

Did the book mention Piperkidis claims ? NO
because is not existed any "Macedonian Slav" nation in that time !!!

The Slavic Macedonian identities (cultural and religious) doesnt mention separate Macedonian political adherent.

is fact and was the reality at that time!!!

and two questions......

Why Bulgarian Macedonian League e.t.c.?
Why no Macedonian reference among the religious and cultural identities ?

[Spartan]

3. The document is aimed towards the people of Macedonia, not the people of Greece.


What was a Macedonian at that time Piperkata?

Also you speak of Macedonia in Nationalistic Terms and as a political entity and not as regional term within the Ottoman empire, WHY?

So yes the document was aimed at the people of Macedonia to throw off the yoke of the Ottomans.The citizens of Greece and Bulgaria were already free from the Ottomans so there was need to target them. Also, who were these Macedonians?

1)Bulgarian
2)Serbian
3)Albanian
4)Greek
5)Vlachs
6)Romas

Did I forget anyone?

Definition:

Macedonian - Anyone who has lived within the man-made, ever changing and artificial area called Macedonia. In Ancient times a Greek tribe whos territory lays completely within the borders of the modern nation of Greece.

[admin]

Xiotis telling a Skopjian to visit a library is like telling a pig to visit an bacon factory :lol:

:laugh:

Jordan.. just provide the original document, from a library reference and we will discuss it.

If you post english translations of unknown documents and forgeries like your people are used to:

ie The History Sourcebook: The Need for Source Criticism: A Letter from Alexander to Aristotle? (http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/alexfake.html)

Then we really can't take your document seriously. It looks like a PDF file from 2007....