akritas
06-17-2007, 11:03 AM
In this thread I will post some Yugoslav documents related of course in the the Macedonian Question. I want to thanks the Vasilyie for his help in the translation of the docs
The first document has as subject the talks between the Greek and Yugoslav foreighn affairs ministers.(1-12-1962)
Cabinet of Koco Popovic
Pov. No 418047
Belgrade,9 VII 1960 y.
Notice
about conversation of state secretary Koca Popovic with the minister of foreign affairs of Greece Evangelos Averof, which took place 1 of July 1960 at Brioni
We talked alone.The conversation lasted one hour.
We used to talk for some time about their insisting for this kind of conversation.I objected to him that, just like before, they make things complicated about small stuffs,they propose once one thing, the next time another.As usual, he answers that here we had disagreements, that they are sorry for not going also to Belgrade.
And than he continue that we sometimes act “lightly”.As an example he presents Kunc's statement about the Balkan Pact.He brags that they immediately supported it (from the later conversation it seems that they did it to make an impression that we agreed before on that matter).He considers that it would be good if we made consultations with them, as well as with Turks.I'm saying that we gave similar statements earlier and I explain why I see no use from pretending that exist something that anybody can see that it does not exist.In his answer Averof clearly shows what is all about: about the interests of the West, that is to say, about fear that our eventual cancellation of the alliance is going to be understood as yet another loss for the West.On that matter he states as main argument that West considers that we have during the last year made close agreements with the East, so that cancellation of the pact would be yet another indication in that direction.I answer, that according to our informations , the estimation of those responsible at the West isn't like that, and another thing,that we take certain political steps starting from principles and on the basis of reality and not on the basis of possible temporary wrong impressions which they may cause to some people. (In a matter of fact, Averof asks me that if we decide to cancell-from what he obviously fears ,he and others at West, we do it “together”, i.e. in agreement with them-and the Turks, so that it wouldn't turn “dramatic”, and probably also in hope that they, if it comes to such situation,may influence us to delay that).
Than we speak about Macedonian Question.He exposes well-known Greek thesis.He says that the attitude we are taking now is new for them.He speaks about the sensitivity of their public opinion about this question, about the danger that our attitude may become equal with that of the Bulgarians, that this ois the only questions in our relations which may carry grave consequences.He removes himself from swears and other, claiming that it is deed of the “too duty-full functionaries”.Otherwise the government haven't exercised no pressure at that part of the population which we call a minority, will not do, that this is their internal question, with one word he asks that we do not escalate it.After I warned at the inappropriateness of the memoirs which they have given us and later have them redrawed, and I have exposed the contradiction and their basic thesis, because measures which have been taken with years toward that population are best confirmation that it is a minority,I say that we ,too, have to take care about our public opinion, which asks questions related to that.We are not interested and we have no intention to escalate,that will depend on the acts of Greek government and authorities.We have exercised caution , even to such extent that they might had a wrong impression about our real attitude.I believe that with our mutual efforts, I emphasize – mutual, we can avoid a serious conflict about that question.
Averof states that in essence i.e. according to the basic attitudes we disagree, but he also expresses belief in same manner.
We are mentioning economic cooperation.I criticize their slowness and lack of expeditiousness,
.He says he did not know and that he will take care of that.
I expose the question of visas.Averof says that the probable reason of their constriction is fear of Macedonian agitation (there were cases in which some people arrived and spoke to the “slavophones” why they don't search their rights more energetically, for example their schools, etc.) but he recognizes that such Greek attitude is not in harmony with mutual relations, i.e that this is not normal and that he will take care of that.
I initiated, without insisting too much, also the question of circulation of goods near the border.Averof accepts the conversation and say that it is necessary to fix that because “without the exchange of goods” the movement of persons looses its meaning.
At the end he asks us to help regarding the issues of the truck because of their interests, first and foremost, for export of fruit.I say that I will take a look, but I do not believe that there is much that can be done.Our people who are working on that are assuring me that what is done is the maximum.And this is not about gesture but about business, tied for certain material calculations, so it has to be done like other businesses.
This is the essence of conversation at 1. VII.
During the meeting at 3. VII Averof again spoke about the Balkan pact, that shows that they give great importance to that question.It shows that he did not understood my argumentation, and fearing that we did not perhaps concluded that they are doing by decree from the West, he assured me that it is nothing else but about not creating a certain negative impression at west about our politics.
I repeated that I do not consider such approach to the problems rightfull.Every politics is worth as much as it holds up to the principles , and not how much it wishes to avoid certain temporary effects, etc.That is best confirmed by the politics of the great forces, especially the USA.Permanent run for the effects necessarily is a miss, precisely because of the lack of long-term conception.
Averof mentions to me and case with one sentence in “Politika” where it is stated approximately that “regarding the Greek-Yugoslav relationship, they will be solved with regard to the international laws”.That is allegedly published during their stay here.Three Greek newspapers have interpreted that as a clear and renewed allusion to the Macedonian Question.Luckily, continues Averof, the matter have been liquidated by the clear denial by the Yugoslav embassy in Athens, so that “during the conversations in Brioni this theme wasn't and will not be mentioned”.I say that I don't know anything about that, I assume that the alleged statement by our embassy is apocryphal, because nobody of us knows nothing about that. (Averof looks at me amazed, certainly thinking that we put the paragraph in “Politika” and that we gave Athens a dictate for denial.)
Koca Popovic
Handed to.
Offic. of the President of the Republics
------ comrade Cardelj
------ ---------- Rankovic
------ ----------Stefanovic
------ ----------Brilej
------ ----------Zec
Comrade D. Kunc
IV department
Embassy at Athens
Archives
http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/979/file0060page1ul8.th.jpg (http://img508.imageshack.us/my.php?image=file0060page1ul8.jpg)
http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/9412/file0060page2zn2.th.jpg (http://img508.imageshack.us/my.php?image=file0060page2zn2.jpg)
source
Spyridon Sfetas (Stin Skia tou Makedonikou,in the shadow of the Macedonian Issue,epikentro, 2007)
The first document has as subject the talks between the Greek and Yugoslav foreighn affairs ministers.(1-12-1962)
Cabinet of Koco Popovic
Pov. No 418047
Belgrade,9 VII 1960 y.
Notice
about conversation of state secretary Koca Popovic with the minister of foreign affairs of Greece Evangelos Averof, which took place 1 of July 1960 at Brioni
We talked alone.The conversation lasted one hour.
We used to talk for some time about their insisting for this kind of conversation.I objected to him that, just like before, they make things complicated about small stuffs,they propose once one thing, the next time another.As usual, he answers that here we had disagreements, that they are sorry for not going also to Belgrade.
And than he continue that we sometimes act “lightly”.As an example he presents Kunc's statement about the Balkan Pact.He brags that they immediately supported it (from the later conversation it seems that they did it to make an impression that we agreed before on that matter).He considers that it would be good if we made consultations with them, as well as with Turks.I'm saying that we gave similar statements earlier and I explain why I see no use from pretending that exist something that anybody can see that it does not exist.In his answer Averof clearly shows what is all about: about the interests of the West, that is to say, about fear that our eventual cancellation of the alliance is going to be understood as yet another loss for the West.On that matter he states as main argument that West considers that we have during the last year made close agreements with the East, so that cancellation of the pact would be yet another indication in that direction.I answer, that according to our informations , the estimation of those responsible at the West isn't like that, and another thing,that we take certain political steps starting from principles and on the basis of reality and not on the basis of possible temporary wrong impressions which they may cause to some people. (In a matter of fact, Averof asks me that if we decide to cancell-from what he obviously fears ,he and others at West, we do it “together”, i.e. in agreement with them-and the Turks, so that it wouldn't turn “dramatic”, and probably also in hope that they, if it comes to such situation,may influence us to delay that).
Than we speak about Macedonian Question.He exposes well-known Greek thesis.He says that the attitude we are taking now is new for them.He speaks about the sensitivity of their public opinion about this question, about the danger that our attitude may become equal with that of the Bulgarians, that this ois the only questions in our relations which may carry grave consequences.He removes himself from swears and other, claiming that it is deed of the “too duty-full functionaries”.Otherwise the government haven't exercised no pressure at that part of the population which we call a minority, will not do, that this is their internal question, with one word he asks that we do not escalate it.After I warned at the inappropriateness of the memoirs which they have given us and later have them redrawed, and I have exposed the contradiction and their basic thesis, because measures which have been taken with years toward that population are best confirmation that it is a minority,I say that we ,too, have to take care about our public opinion, which asks questions related to that.We are not interested and we have no intention to escalate,that will depend on the acts of Greek government and authorities.We have exercised caution , even to such extent that they might had a wrong impression about our real attitude.I believe that with our mutual efforts, I emphasize – mutual, we can avoid a serious conflict about that question.
Averof states that in essence i.e. according to the basic attitudes we disagree, but he also expresses belief in same manner.
We are mentioning economic cooperation.I criticize their slowness and lack of expeditiousness,
.He says he did not know and that he will take care of that.
I expose the question of visas.Averof says that the probable reason of their constriction is fear of Macedonian agitation (there were cases in which some people arrived and spoke to the “slavophones” why they don't search their rights more energetically, for example their schools, etc.) but he recognizes that such Greek attitude is not in harmony with mutual relations, i.e that this is not normal and that he will take care of that.
I initiated, without insisting too much, also the question of circulation of goods near the border.Averof accepts the conversation and say that it is necessary to fix that because “without the exchange of goods” the movement of persons looses its meaning.
At the end he asks us to help regarding the issues of the truck because of their interests, first and foremost, for export of fruit.I say that I will take a look, but I do not believe that there is much that can be done.Our people who are working on that are assuring me that what is done is the maximum.And this is not about gesture but about business, tied for certain material calculations, so it has to be done like other businesses.
This is the essence of conversation at 1. VII.
During the meeting at 3. VII Averof again spoke about the Balkan pact, that shows that they give great importance to that question.It shows that he did not understood my argumentation, and fearing that we did not perhaps concluded that they are doing by decree from the West, he assured me that it is nothing else but about not creating a certain negative impression at west about our politics.
I repeated that I do not consider such approach to the problems rightfull.Every politics is worth as much as it holds up to the principles , and not how much it wishes to avoid certain temporary effects, etc.That is best confirmed by the politics of the great forces, especially the USA.Permanent run for the effects necessarily is a miss, precisely because of the lack of long-term conception.
Averof mentions to me and case with one sentence in “Politika” where it is stated approximately that “regarding the Greek-Yugoslav relationship, they will be solved with regard to the international laws”.That is allegedly published during their stay here.Three Greek newspapers have interpreted that as a clear and renewed allusion to the Macedonian Question.Luckily, continues Averof, the matter have been liquidated by the clear denial by the Yugoslav embassy in Athens, so that “during the conversations in Brioni this theme wasn't and will not be mentioned”.I say that I don't know anything about that, I assume that the alleged statement by our embassy is apocryphal, because nobody of us knows nothing about that. (Averof looks at me amazed, certainly thinking that we put the paragraph in “Politika” and that we gave Athens a dictate for denial.)
Koca Popovic
Handed to.
Offic. of the President of the Republics
------ comrade Cardelj
------ ---------- Rankovic
------ ----------Stefanovic
------ ----------Brilej
------ ----------Zec
Comrade D. Kunc
IV department
Embassy at Athens
Archives
http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/979/file0060page1ul8.th.jpg (http://img508.imageshack.us/my.php?image=file0060page1ul8.jpg)
http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/9412/file0060page2zn2.th.jpg (http://img508.imageshack.us/my.php?image=file0060page2zn2.jpg)
source
Spyridon Sfetas (Stin Skia tou Makedonikou,in the shadow of the Macedonian Issue,epikentro, 2007)