The Elgin Parthenon Marbles

[Tsontos]

This thread is reserved for any opinions, information, news on the issue of the Elgin marbles which are currently kept in the British museum, much to the displeasure of the Greek people and many non-Greeks who feel strongly about the issue. Just to get a background on the issue, here is wiki's page on the matter:

The Elgin Marbles (IPA: /ˈɛl gən/), sometimes called the Parthenon Marbles, are a large collection of marble sculptures removed from Athens to Britain in 1806 by Thomas Bruce, 7th Earl of Elgin, ambassador to the Ottoman Empire from 1799 to 1803. Taking advantage of Ottoman suzerainty over what is now Greece, he obtained a firman for their removal from the Parthenon from the Ottoman Sultan. The sculptures were deposited in the British Museum, London in 1816, and in 1936 were placed into the purpose-built Duveen Gallery.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4b/Elgin_Marbles_British_Museum.jpg/773px-Elgin_Marbles_British_Museum.jpg

Description

The Elgin Marbles include some of the statuary from the pediments, the metope panels depicting battles between the Lapiths and the Centaurs, as well as the Parthenon Frieze which decorated the horizontal course set above the interior architrave of the temple. As such, they represent more than half of what now remains of the surviving sculptural decoration of the Parthenon: the Elgin marbles and frieze extend to about 1km when laid out flat, 15 out of 92 metopes; 17 partial figures from the pediments, as well as other pieces of architecture. Elgin's acquisitions also included objects from other buildings on the Athenian Acropolis: the Erechtheion, reduced to ruin during the Greek War of Independence (1821–33); the Propylaia, and the Temple of Athena Nike. Lord Elgin took half of the marbles from the Parthenon and wax casts were produced from the remaining ones.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/ff/Elgin_marbles_frieze.jpg/250px-Elgin_marbles_frieze.jpg

Interpretation of the frieze

At present, about two-thirds of the frieze is in London and a third remains in Athens. Much of the Athenian material is not on display, and there are fragments in nine other international museums. Considerable debate surrounds the meaning of the frieze but most agree that it depicts the Panathenaic procession that paraded from Eleusis to Athens every four years. The procession on the frieze culminates at the east end of the Parthenon in a depiction of the Greek gods who are seated mainly on stools, either side of temple servants in their midst. This section of the frieze is currently under-appreciated as it is split between London and Athens, a doorway in the British Museum marking the absence of the relevant section of Frieze. An almost complete copy of this section of the Frieze is displayed and open to the public at Hammerwood Park near East Grinstead in Sussex.


Criticism by Elgin's contemporaries

When the marbles were shipped to Britain, there was criticism of Elgin (who had spent a fortune on the project) but also much admiration of the sculptures. Lord Byron strongly objected to their removal from Greece:

Dull is the eye that will not weep to see
Thy walls defaced, thy mouldering shrines removed
By British hands, which it had best behoved
To guard those relics ne’er to be restored.
Curst be the hour when from their isle they roved,
And once again thy hapless bosom gored,
And snatch'd thy shrinking gods to northern climes abhorred!
—"Childe Harold's Pilgrimage"

Byron was not the only Englishman to protest the removal at the time:

"The Honourable Lord has taken advantage of the most unjustifiable means and has committed the most flagrant pillages. It was, it seems, fatal that a representative of our country loot those objects that the Turks and other barbarians had considered sacred,"
said Sir John Newport.

A contemporary MP Thomas Hughes, an eye witness, later wrote:

"The abduction of small parts of the Parthenon, of a value relatively small but which previously contributed to the solidity of the building, left that glorious edifice exposed to premature ruin and degradation. The abduction dislodged from their original positions, wherefrom they precisely drew their interest and beauty, many pieces which are altogether unnecessary to the country that now owns them."

John Keats was one of those who saw them privately exhibited in London, hence his two sonnets about the marbles. Some scholars, notably Richard Payne Knight, insisted that the marbles dated from the period of the Roman Empire, but most accepted that they were authentic works from the studio of Phidias, the most famous ancient Greek sculptor. They were eventually purchased by Parliament for the nation in 1816 for £35,000 and deposited in the British Museum, where they were displayed in the Elgin Saloon (constructed in 1832), until the Duveen Gallery was completed in 1939.

Damage to marbles

To facilitate transport, the column capital of the Parthenon, the Erechtheum cornice and many metopes and slabs were sawn and sliced into smaller sections. One shipload of marbles on board the British brig Mentor was caught in a storm off Cape Matapan and sank near Kythera, but was salvaged at the Earl's expense; it took two years to bring them to the surface.[1]

While the artifacts held in London, unlike those remaining on the Parthenon, have been saved from the hazards of pollution, neglect, and war, they have also been irrevocably damaged by the unauthorized "cleaning" methods employed by British Museum staff in the 1930s, who were dismissed when this was discovered. Acting under the erroneous belief that the marbles were originally bright white, the marbles were cleaned with copper tools and caustics, causing serious damage and altering the marbles' colouring. (The Pentelicon marble on which the carvings were made naturally acquires a tan colour similar to honey when exposed to air.) In addition, the process scraped away all traces of surface colouring that the marbles originally held.

The Greek claim to the marbles

The Greek government claims that the marbles should be returned to Athens on moral grounds, although it is no longer feasible or advisable to reposition them onto the Parthenon. As part of the campaign, it is building the New Acropolis Museum, designed by the Swiss-American architect Bernard Tschumi, designed to hold the Parthenon sculptures arranged in the same way as they would have been on the Parthenon. It is intended to leave the spaces for the Elgin Marbles empty, rather than using casts in these positions, as a reminder to visitors of the fact that parts are held in other museums. The new museum plan also attracted controversy; the construction site contains late Roman and early Christian archaeology, including an unusual seventh-century Byzantine bath house and other finds from Late Antiquity. A court challenge in Greece from the International Council on Museums and Sites (ICOMOS) to the site was rejected by the Greek civil courts in 2004. The new design incorporates the archaeological finds within the building.[2]


The British Museum position

A range of slightly different points have been put by British Museum spokespersons over the years in defence of retention of the Elgin Marbles within the museum. The main points include the maintenance of a single worldwide-oriented cultural collection, all viewable in one location, thereby serving as a world heritage centre; the saving of the marbles from what would have been, or would be, pollution and other damage if relocated back to Athens; and a legal position that the museum is banned by charter from returning any part of its collection.[3] The latter was tested in the British High Court in May 2005 in relation to Nazi-looted Old Master artworks held at the museum; it was ruled that these could not be returned.[4] The judge, Sir Andrew Morritt, ruled that the British Museum Act – which protects the collections for posterity – cannot be overridden by a "moral obligation" to return works known to have been plundered. It has been argued however, that connections between the legal ruling and the Elgin Marbles were more tenuous than implied by the Attorney General[5].

Other displaced Parthenon art

Lord Elgin was neither the first, nor the last, to disperse elements of the marbles from their original location. The remainder of the surviving sculptures that are not in museums or storerooms in Athens are held in museums in various locations across Europe. The British Museum also holds additional fragments from the Parthenon sculptures acquired from various collections that have no connection with Lord Elgin.

Material from the Parthenon was dispersed both before and after Elgin's activities. The British Museum holds approximately half of the surviving sculptures. The remainder is divided among the following locations:

Athens Extensive remains of the metopes (especially east, north and west), frieze (especially west) and pediments; less than 50% is on public display and some is still on the building, including the finest metope. Paris, Musée du Louvre One frieze slab; one metope; fragments of the frieze and metopes; a head from the pediments Copenhagen, National Museum Two heads from a metope in the British Museum Würzburg, University Head from a metope in the British Museum Palermo, Museo Salinas Fragment of frieze Vatican Museums Fragments of metopes, frieze and pediments Vienna, Kunsthistorisches Three fragments of frieze Museum Munich, Glyptothek Fragments of metopes and frieze; not on display


The collection includes the following material from the Acropolis:

Parthenon 247ft of the original 524ft of frieze 15 of the 92 metopes 17 pedimental figures; various pieces of architecture Erechtheion a Caryatid, a column and other architectural members Propylaia Architectural members Temple of Athena Nike 4 slabs of the frieze and architectural members


Further reading
Christopher Hitchens, The Elgin Marbles: Should they be returned to Greece? (with essays by Robert Browning and Graham Binns) (Verso, March 1998)
William St. Clair, Lord Elgin and the Marbles (Oxford University Press, 1998)
Dorothy King, "The Elgin Marbles" (Hutchinson / Random House, January 2006)

[Tsontos]

Swede gives back Acropolis marble


By Malcolm Brabant
BBC News, Athens



The marble was picked up by Wiger-Angner's great-uncle in 1896
A retired Swedish gym teacher is the toast of Greece after returning a piece of sculpted marble taken from the Acropolis more than a century ago.

Birgit Wiger-Angner's family held the marble for 110 years, but she decided to return it to Athens after hearing about Greece's Elgin marbles campaign.

The small fragment comes from the Acropolis's Erechtheion temple.

The move has boosted the international campaign to persuade the British Museum to return the Elgin marbles to Athens.

London's reluctance

It is only a small decorative piece of marble but it is highly symbolic.

The fragment comes from the frieze of the Erechtheion, one of the ancient buildings on top of the rock called the Acropolis.


The British Museum wants to keep its Parthenon marbles

Surrounded by the original Parthenon marbles in the Acropolis Museum, Mrs Wiger-Angner called on the British Museum in London to restore to Greece the missing sculptures from this priceless collection.

"I think that all people in the British Museum should also bring back all the originals. They can make copies belonging to themselves," she said.

This is the second piece of the Acropolis jigsaw to be returned in the past two months.

In September, Heidelberg University handed back a marble heel from the Acropolis' Parthenon.

Campaigners argue that tourists would much rather see the marbles in the original location than in London.

"I think it is really just a moral obligation to add and share in the reunification of the Parthenon marbles which is a world monument," said Eleni Korka, director of classical antiquities at the Greek ministry of culture.

But the British Museum is resisting growing international pressure to return the sculptures prised from the ancient Greek temple by Lord Elgin.

It insists that the sculptures were legally obtained from the authority governing Greece when Lord Elgin supposedly saved the sculpted tablets for Queen Victoria and a grateful nation.

It does not seem troubled by the fact that the nationality of that authority was Turkish, because until the mid-19th Century, Greece was occupied by the Ottoman empire.

BBC NEWS | Europe | Swede gives back Acropolis marble (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6138214.stm)



Greek pupils demand Elgin Marbles

Greek schoolchildren have demonstrated at the Acropolis in Athens to demand that the UK returns marble sculptures taken by Lord Elgin 200 years ago.
Wearing orange jackets bearing campaign logos, about 2,000 pupils formed a human chain around the monument.

The marbles are part of the Parthenon, a 2,500-year-old temple.

Greece has long campaigned for the marbles' return. But the British Museum says they are better off in London, safe from pollution damage in Athens.

Organisers said the marbles were Greece's pride and dignity. They said the symbol of Greek democracy had lain mutilated for two centuries.

Campaigners have collected 65,000 signatures and sent 900 letters of protest to the head of the British Museum in London.

The marbles were removed by British envoy Lord Elgin at the beginning of the 19th Century.

The Greek government has for years campaigned for their return, saying they were illegally removed.

The museum says it is not at liberty to give them back, and believes they are well looked after and available for millions of visitors to see in London.

It says the marbles are safe from Athens's pollution that has damaged those still there.

An organiser of Tuesday's protest said campaigners would soon stage a similar event at the British Museum.

Other cities which hold pieces of the temple to the goddess Athena include Paris, Vienna, Palermo and Munich, according to the Greek culture ministry.


Story from BBC NEWS:
BBC NEWS | Europe | Greek pupils demand Elgin Marbles (http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/europe/6313953.stm)

[Tsontos]

http://www.macedoniaontheweb.com/forum/archeological-artifactual-macedonian-history/820-recognition-greek-ownership-two-ancient-artifacts.html?highlight=elgin

[Tsontos]

Ancient wreath returns to Greece
BBC News, Athens

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/42741000/jpg/_42741843_wreath_203body_afp.jpg
Wreath on display in Athens

Greece fought for 10 years to secure the wreath's return

A spectacular golden wreath dating back to the 4th Century BC is due to go on display at the National Archaeology Museum in Greece.

The Macedonian wreath was returned to Athens at the weekend by the Getty Museum in Los Angeles.

Greece fought for 10 years to prove that it had been illegally spirited out of the country.

The restitution of the wreath is part of a campaign aimed at restoring the Elgin (or Parthenon) Marbles to Greece.

Now restored to its rightful home, the wreath is one of the most exquisite treasures in Greece.

It is a floral crown, a confection of realistic leaves and flowers made of gold foil attached to a slender headband 28cm (11in) in diameter.

It was probably made after the death of Alexander the Great and worn on ceremonial occasions.

Experts believe it was buried with the remains of its owner in northern Greece.

The Getty Museum purchased the wreath from a Swiss dealer in 1993 for just over $1m (750,000 euros; £500,000).

Last year, the Americans finally agreed to return their prized possession after the Greeks convinced them that it had been illegally excavated and smuggled out of the country.

The Getty's director, Michael Brand, told the BBC in a statement that everyone was saddened to see the wreath leaving, but that returning it to Greece was the correct action to take.

Elgin campaign

Greece hopes that other museums will now follow the Getty's example.

In particular, it wants the British Museum in London to hand back the frieze known as the Elgin, or Parthenon, Marbles.

Greece claims they were stolen by Lord Elgin in 1801, but the British Museum insists that Lord Elgin legally obtained the Marbles from Greece's then rulers, the Turkish Ottoman Empire.

Moral pressure on Britain is due to increase later this year when Greece opens the new Acropolis Museum, complete with an empty space designed to show off the marbles in Aegean light, instead of what critics call "a gloomy cellar in London's Bloomsbury district".


BBC NEWS | Europe | Ancient wreath returns to Greece (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6505971.stm)

...................................

[nsminc]

I'd give my opinion but i can't find the words....:angry: :angry: :angry:

[Euklid]

The phase is:

a) They have made it clear that the marbles are owned by them.

b) We have made it clear that the marbles are to come back for good.

c)Now we are discussing the idea of lending them but that implies co-ownership.

And the Brits are saying "if we even lend them the marbles, we are never getting them back again"

And here we are.

[nsminc]

Dorothy King at the British Museum
Archaeologist Dorothy King, who breaks the mould of the dusty academic, is an outspoken critic of Greek demands to take back the Elgin Marbles from the UK.

"I think she sounds fun," Dorothy King says of Melina Mercouri, "I wish I could have been friends with her - a bit of a drama queen, but aren't we all?"

Ms Mercouri was the Oscar-nominated actress and Greek culture minister who demanded that the UK return the Parthenon sculptures - the Elgin Marbles - "in the name of fairness and morality".

But standing firm against her is Dr King, who argues in her new book against repatriating the Marbles. Like Ms Mercouri, she is a colourful character. She is irreverent and feisty, with a blog called PhDiva, and she speaks her mind on a range of issues in newspaper columns and on TV.

Not that she absolutely rules out the return of the Parthenon sculptures, removed by Lord Elgin in the early 19th Century, although her book keeps up her attack on the Greeks' ability to look after their archaeological treasures properly.

"When the Greeks can demonstrate that they too have done an admirable job of caring for the Marbles in Athens then, perhaps, we can discuss a loan.

"Should Greece ever sort out a suitable museum display, it might be possible to appreciate them [the Marbles] there fully one day," she says in her book.

BBC NEWS | UK | Magazine | Return the Marbles? Forget it (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/4624334.stm)

[pankration]

Typical English response: we know what's good for you better than you do. F*** them.

[Tsontos]

PARTHENON MARBLES

Greece to speak to British Museum next month about loan of artifacts

Greek officials and representatives of the British Museum may discuss possibly loaning the Parthenon Marbles to Greece when they meet on May 4, Culture Minister Giorgos Voulgarakis said yesterday. Voulgarakis was reacting to comments by Neil MacGregor, the director of the British Museum, who said that “in principle” the antiquities could spend three or six months in another country. However, MacGregor told Bloomberg News that the Greek government would first have to admit the Parthenon Marbles belong to the British Museum. “The Greek government has never asked for a loan of the material from the British Museum. The issue has always been about the permanent removal of all the Parthenon material in the BM collection to Athens,” said MacGregor. Voulgarakis said he read the comments “with interest..”

[Lakonian]

Hi guys,

i read in kosmos the other day that Greece will be "borrowing " the marbles from England under the terms that Greece accepts that the marbles belong to the British Museum. I suggest Greec accepts this term and then once taken never return them;)

We have them over 2000 years, they stole them for a couple of years and claimed as there own.:wacko:

The loan will be for 6 months apparently.

[Tsontos]

Howard asked to recover lost marbles | NEWS.com.au (http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,21781324-1702,00.html)

GREEK Prime Minister Costas Karamanlis today asked Australia to pressure Britain to hand over the Elgin Marbles after Canberra successfully lobbied for the return from London of ancient aboriginal remains.

[pankration]

PARTHENON MARBLES

Greece to speak to British Museum next month about loan of artifacts

Greek officials and representatives of the British Museum may discuss possibly loaning the Parthenon Marbles to Greece when they meet on May 4, Culture Minister Giorgos Voulgarakis said yesterday. Voulgarakis was reacting to comments by Neil MacGregor, the director of the British Museum, who said that “in principle� the antiquities could spend three or six months in another country. However, MacGregor told Bloomberg News that the Greek government would first have to admit the Parthenon Marbles belong to the British Museum. “The Greek government has never asked for a loan of the material from the British Museum. The issue has always been about the permanent removal of all the Parthenon material in the BM collection to Athens,� said MacGregor. Voulgarakis said he read the comments “with interest..�

:mad: This is a real sore point with me and I'm going to address it in a long editorial on my ezine next month (I'll let you all know when it's posted).
Until then, the sheer gall of these people is nauseating. I break into my neighbor's house, steal his tv and then offer it back to him "on loan". Does this sound stupid? It should. Imperialist jerks.:angry:

[Alita]

Britain fears pollution in Greece will ruin the marbles...

This, coming from a nation which has the world's most polluted capital city and whose 'archaeologists' have already ruined the marbles irreversibly by washing them in caustic soda.

Finally, proof that the British should abandon history and focus instead on comedy to rake in the money.

[Truth Bearer]

Yeah bring back monty python......

[nsminc]

"However, MacGregor told Bloomberg News that the Greek government would first have to admit the Parthenon Marbles belong to the British Museum."


!@#$$%%^^&&%$%%^^^!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Truth Bearer]

Fear and fury among the Marbles
By Trevor Timpson
BBC News


The Elgin Marbles in the British Museum are marvellous - but they're a bit, well, colourless , aren't they?
That isn't how it was for the ancient Greeks. The sculptures were painted in vivid colour. High up on the sides of the Parthenon temple in Athens, they had to be.

Now a new film on permanent show in the room next to the Marbles adds the colour - and the fear and the violence.

"When we started to apply the colour it brought a lot of the emotion to life," says Dyfri Williams, Keeper of Greek and Roman Antiquities at the British Museum.

The film reconstructs one of the metopes - the 92 carved fight scenes that ran around the outside wall - using computer technology.

"What you probably hadn't been able to see" in the scene of a centaur hitting a youth with a pot has finally come alive, says Mr Williams.


"The madness of the centaur comes out and the terror of the youth comes out.

"We hope to put that little film into our internet site - the message about colour on the sculpture is so important; it changes people's perception so much that we should have it there."


This has got to be a collaborative process... such special sculpture's for everyone
Dyfri Williams, British Museum

The subject of the film, south metope no. 4, mirrors the troubles that all the Parthenon sculptures have gone through.



Most of the metopes were defaced by Christians from the 6th Century AD on, when the Parthenon was turned into a church. Those on the south side, depicting a battle between centaurs and humans, escaped - presumably they were thought to convey some suitable Christian message.

But the Parthenon was damaged catastrophically in 1687 when a Venetian army shelled the Acropolis and the Parthenon blew up - the Turkish garrison was using it as a powder magazine.

From that time on the temple was a ruin, and fragments were taken by souvenir hunters, ending up in some 10 European countries, or lost altogether.



Moritz Hartmann, a Danish officer in the Venetian navy, bought the two heads from south metope 4 in a street in Athens in 1688 and they are now in the Danish National Museum.

The rest of south metope 4 was removed from the Parthenon by Lord Elgin's agents in 1802 and - with 14 other metopes and many other Parthenon sculptures - acquired by the British Museum in 1816.

The Greek authorities and campaigners in Britain and elsewhere continue to call for their return to Athens to be reunited with other Parthenon sculptures there.

But the British Museum points out that about 50% of the sculptures are lost forever and the damaged remnants which are left are divided, not just between London and Athens but a handful of other European museums too.

"It is no longer possible to recreate them in any real sense," says the BM. "It must be done 'virtually'."

Lost details

The restored metope is part of this process. The project began with three-dimensional laser scanning of the metope in the BM, and of casts of the two Copenhagen heads, by the National Museums Conservation centre in Liverpool and fitting the images together.

More can be added from a drawing done by the Frenchman Jacques Carrey in 1674. But still a lot of details are entirely lost.

Dyfri Williams's department developed a story board for the film, which Mark Timson of the British Museum's New Media Unit translated into a series of computer-generated models.

Drawings of the missing pieces were developed based on other metopes in the museum.

Fixing-holes in the sculptures show that metal pieces were once included - for this metope, a headband and sword for the boy were added.

The 3-D scanning enabled some things about the carving to be understood which had been a mystery before, says Mri Williams.


Since the scanning, some ridges of the youth's thigh are now thought to mark the folds of his cloak. The museum now thinks the cloak was finished off in plaster, probably after some accident in the carving of the marble.

"This is quite amazing, what you can see with the scan," says Mr Williams.


"You go up and round - and we hadn't noticed that bit about the drapery on top of the thigh beforehand; we knew that there was a roughened patch though it had never really been explained."

And then, the colour. Few traces remain of paint on ancient sculpture, and those that have survived have often changed colour over the centuries. So the British Museum's film shows alternative colour schemes.

But it favours a white background and blue surround, matching the colour scheme found on tombs unearthed in Macedonia.

Accessible to all

"I think that real progress can be made in understanding the fragments scattered all over the world. We can, with the aid of this project, make a lot of progress on that," says Mr Williams.

The British Museum has said the ultimate aim should be to create a "multi-level, interactive educational resource accessible to all" on the internet and elsewhere.

That is still the aim, says Mr Williams, but "it's a matter of assembling the finances for it and the resources to do it - the British Museum has many different things it tries to do."

"This has got to be a collaborative process; it's got to be a sharing of our knowledge.


The Greeks have to be involved, we have to be involved, the Germans have to be involved, the Danes, the French, the Italians - because it involves everybody. Such special sculpture's for everyone."

Story from BBC NEWS:
BBC NEWS | UK | Fear and fury among the Marbles (http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/uk_news/6986756.stm)

Published: 2007/09/12 03:53:36 GMT

© BBC MMVII

[Spartan]

What really gets me worked up is that Elgin STOLE many of the Marbles. The British stick to the story that he had permission from the Sublime Port but he DID NOT! The only permission he received was for the removal of already LOOSE pieces and to make mold copies of the sculptures on the structures. THUS NEVER has permission to cut and remove pieces from the Parthenon or any other structure on the Acropolis.

The Greek government really needs to push this point home. Let the museum keep some of the smaller pieces but demand the pieces that were an integral part of the Parthenon itself. This would be in accordance to the permit Elgin had and ignored.

Elgin is a THIEF and must be remembered as so. Never call the Marbles as the "Elgin Marbles" call them the Parthenon Marbles. Never glorify a treasure hunter and a thief!

This is my two cents and my professional opinion.

I will post a good article I read in an Archaeology Magazine 2-3 years ago that presents both sides of the debate and explains the details behind what Elgin was permited to take as soon as I find it.

[golden_earrings]

I have read that maybe Greece should not have them back if they do not take any better care of them than the care given to the tombs of the Spartans....no, this was not written by a Greek, but the pics of the tombs did support the theory....what is your viewpoint"?

[Spartan]

Can you post a link to the pics GE?

[pankration]

I found myself in London, it was late in the evening, the British Museum was closing and I was devastated that I might miss seeing the Elgin marbles. However, my beautiful wife flirted with the security guard, who like all true heterosexuals nevers says no to a pretty woman, let my son and me into the museum. As my son shot photos and video of the marbles in the deserted museum I put away my feelings toward the English and tried to consider this situation objectively. It's a great museum, VERY POLITE security guards and a nice layout. My anger has dissipated but my sadness has grown. Greece should have the marbles back. Elgin stole them. Britain has been a decent caretaker but it's time to do the right thing. Give them back now.

[Spartan]

I saw the marbles as well but was even more disappointed when all the other Greek sections were closed due to the heat and the security guards not being able to take the heat. I was in front of the sections and it wasn't any hotter than the rest of the museum. This was 4-5 years ago when London reached it's record high ever of 101 degrees. The funny thing was that the Underground shut down due to the heat. The reason was that the tracks could not withstand those temperatures.

[nsminc]

The UK should not only give them back but a)pay for the construction of the new museum in the Acropolis b) give 10% of the revenue generated by visitors to the British Museum all these years to Greece.


Why DO they call it the British Museum for anyway?

[Truth Bearer]

Cranes move Acropolis sculptures
Greece has begun moving the ancient sculptures from the Acropolis in Athens to a new home - a museum at the foot of the hilltop citadel.
Crowds of bystanders watched the first of the monuments gingerly lifted by cranes at the 2,500-year-old Parthenon.

Thousands of antiquities will be moved, mostly marble sculptures from the fifth and sixth centuries BC.

Greek officials hope the new site will boost the country's long campaign for the return of the Elgin Marbles.

The Elgin Marbles are a collection of sculptures that were removed from the Parthenon 200 years ago and are now part of a collection at the British Museum in London.

'Historic event'

Michael Liapis, the Greek culture minister, told Reuters news agency: "It is the first time in 2,500 years the Parthenon marbles are moved.

"It's a historic event not just for Greece but the international community."

The antiquities - which are insured for 400m euros (£280m) - are being removed from the old museum next to the Parthenon.

Three giant cranes are expected to take six weeks to transfer the sculptures 400 metres (1,300ft) down the hill to a new ultra-modern museum, which is set to open next year.


Story from BBC NEWS:
BBC NEWS | Europe | Cranes move Acropolis sculptures (http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/europe/7044407.stm)

Published: 2007/10/15 00:07:29 GMT

© BBC MMVII

[Reaper]

The UK should not only give them back but a)pay for the construction of the new museum in the Acropolis b) give 10% of the revenue generated by visitors to the British Museum all these years to Greece.


Why DO they call it the British Museum for anyway?

Because it is uniquely what the the 'British' have stolen from countries around the world. They also had some Nazi plunder, but they had to pay the jew conpensation this year when he proved the drawings were his. I made this list myself:

British Museum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Museum#Disputed_Items_in_the_Collection)

[Spartan]

The British Museum has free admission.

[nsminc]

Check this out:
Marbles with an Attitude! (http://marbles.apokrisi.net/)

They even sell shirts and coffee cups

[Tsontos]

Because it is uniquely what the the 'British' have stolen from countries around the world. They also had some Nazi plunder, but they had to pay the jew conpensation this year when he proved the drawings were his. I made this list myself:

British Museum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Museum#Disputed_Items_in_the_Collection)


Ha! thats a great list. never heard about any of it before. Why were the Australian Aboriginal ashes returned but not the Parthenon Marbles?

[Reaper]

Because they knew not many people came to see them and like other things this 'institution' has done, they hoped no one would discuss it. Fortunately for us, unfortunately for them- i found it when I read their policy 'never to return or sell objects they own' as an excuse not to return the marbles. i immediately found nazi plunder they had to give compensation for, australian ashes they returned and african artifacts they actually illegally privately sold! It is really not that hard to unravel the english when they are lying, which is 99.9% of the time. They are so naturally corrupt.

[Tsontos]

morally bunkrupt??

[Reaper]

completely, in Europe they are famous for condemning every EU nation they see as corrupt, however every European knows that the worse is the UK in terms of corruption simply because unlike italy for example, the English never admit to any corruption, act moral and attack other all day, until they are found guilty by a judge and sent to prison, than everyone in the uk acts shocked! LOL

[Alita]

Great. I love the head to body distance one. :laugh:

[ViceAndVertigo]

I think the Elgin Marbles should stay at the British Museum. As one of the leading Museum's in the world and in one of the most cosmopolitan cities in the world, the Marbles showcase the outstanding achievements that the Ancient Greeks made. If the Museum gave back these pieces, it would create a high-profile precedent where most of the Museum's collection would be subject to calls for the return to their country of origin. After all, the National Archaeological Museum of Athens itself has antiquities from Egypt and the Near East, would Greece accept calls from the Egyptian Government for the return of these artefacts?

It is an excellent experience to be able to look at the Marbles, go on to view the Rosetta Stone, then finish off by taking in the Terracotta Army, all within the space of a few minutes. The British Museum truly lets you appreciate all the world's great civilisations in a global context.

I do sympathise with the Greek demands for the return of one of the world's most remarkable artefacts to the place where they were created. However, the British Museum is the best place for them to be viewed. On the positive side, at least Lord Elgin did not take the entire Parthenon Temple with him back to London, now that really would have been controversial.

[Tsontos]

I think the Elgin Marbles should stay at the British Museum. As one of the leading Museum's in the world and in one of the most cosmopolitan cities in the world, the Marbles showcase the outstanding achievements that the Ancient Greeks made.

I dont see your point here about exposure. The Acropolis and its nearby Museum is one of the most visited places on earth.


The British Museum truly lets you appreciate all the world's great civilisations in a global context.

In Athens you can view these articles in the shadow of the towering Acropolis, the pinnacle of Western civillisation; hows that for context?


If the Museum gave back these pieces, it would create a high-profile precedent where most of the Museum's collection would be subject to calls for the return to their country of origin.

A precedent has already been set for the British Museum returning of articles (See in this thread about the Australian Aboriginal case)

After all, the National Archaeological Museum of Athens itself has antiquities from Egypt and the Near East, would Greece accept calls from the Egyptian Government for the return of these artefacts?

Yes.


I do sympathise with the Greek demands for the return of one of the world's most remarkable artefacts to the place where they were created. However, the British Museum is the best place for them to be viewed. On the positive side, at least Lord Elgin did not take the entire Parthenon Temple with him back to London, now that really would have been controversial.

Yeah if it wasnt controversial enough that "his lordship" obtained fraudulent permission from the Turkish occupiers to scrape marbles from this building and then have many of them lost at see when one of his ships sunk:huh:


The English and the "British" Museum's position on this issue is untenable and wrong.

[Reaper]

I think the Elgin Marbles should stay at the British Museum. As one of the leading Museum's in the world and in one of the most cosmopolitan cities in the world, the Marbles showcase the outstanding achievements that the Ancient Greeks made. If the Museum gave back these pieces, it would create a high-profile precedent where most of the Museum's collection would be subject to calls for the return to their country of origin. After all, the National Archaeological Museum of Athens itself has antiquities from Egypt and the Near East, would Greece accept calls from the Egyptian Government for the return of these artefacts?

It is an excellent experience to be able to look at the Marbles, go on to view the Rosetta Stone, then finish off by taking in the Terracotta Army, all within the space of a few minutes. The British Museum truly lets you appreciate all the world's great civilisations in a global context.

I do sympathise with the Greek demands for the return of one of the world's most remarkable artefacts to the place where they were created. However, the British Museum is the best place for them to be viewed. On the positive side, at least Lord Elgin did not take the entire Parthenon Temple with him back to London, now that really would have been controversial.

The president it will set if the Marbles are returned, is not to take objects illegally or controversial objects maliciously lest you lose them to their rightful owners further down the line. Elgin did not take these stones for Britain, education, spirituality - he took them to put in his private garden in Scotland but then went bust and was forced to sell them to the British museum. Greece's museums on the the other hand will not have to return anything because Greece never took anything like this is a similar manner.

If they are returned, as a lot of looted art / dubious morality removed art is (see Getty musems and Mrs True) already being returned to Greece/ Italy it will set a president and educate. The president will be don't take controversial art off a Turkish Invasion force that belongs to someone else. Be careful what you buy. And most importantly? It will teach the world that museums like the British museum, called an institution (lol) are simply mass collections (made in times of empire) of other people's national art who were either too poor, too damaged as a nation to defend them properly at the time. The British museum offered us casts, lol. When we get them back, they can have our casts.:)

[Paulos Melas]

The marbles is part of the central national monument of Greece. They are not simply antiquities. Eventually they shall be returned to Greece now that the new acropolis museum is in place

[pankration]

When my son and I were in the Greek Archeological Museum, in a moment of fun we went to pose in front of one of the statues (the spear throwing Poseidon). Immediately we were accosted by polite but firm security who told us that these objects were as holy relics to the Greeks and they would not tolerate any disrespect. We agreed. This is the difference. To us, these are holy relics...our connection to the past.

[Tsontos]

Theres even a facebook group for this issue: Facebook | Login (http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2234360214&ref=nf)

For more information see:
Elgin Marbles - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthenon_marbles)
Opinion poll: Majority of Britons favor return of Parthenon Marbles (http://greekembassy.org/Embassy/Content/en/Article.aspx?office=3&folder=274&article=3326)
Elginism » Restitution of the Elgin Marbles (Parthenon Marbles) to Athens, Greece (http://www.elginism.com/)
The Parthenon Marbles (or Elgin Marbles) Restoration to Athens, Greece - Welcome to the BCRPM (http://www.parthenonuk.com/index.php)
Melina's speech to the Oxford Union (http://www.greece.org/parthenon/marbles/speech.htm) -
The Acropolis of Athens, Attiki (Hellas - GR) (http://www.acropolisofathens.gr/)

Melina Merkouri's famous speech
UNESCO resolutions on the promotion and protection of cultural heritage:
Culture: UNESCO (http://portal.unesco.org/en/ev.php-URL_ID=13649&URL_DO=DO_TOPIC&URL_SECTION=-471.html)

The official stance of the Greek government for the return of the Marbles:
Õðïõñãåßï Ðïëéôéóìïý - Ç åðéóôñïöÞ ôùí ÌáñìÜñùí ôïõ Ðáñèåíþíá (http://www.yppo.gr/4/marm/mindex1.jsp#) (in Greek)

Students in Greece protested (again) for the restoration of the Parthenon Marbles to their home: Greece
BBC NEWS | World | Europe | Greek pupils demand Elgin Marbles (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6313953.stm)

Perhaps the beginning to the restoration of many articles belonging in Greek museums?
BBC NEWS | World | Europe | Ancient wreath returns to Greece (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6505971.stm)


Sign the petition!
The Parthenon Marbles (or Elgin Marbles) Restoration to Athens, Greece - Sign the Online Petition (http://www.parthenonuk.com/petition.php)

[Promethean Fire]

Looks like there coming home!:clap2:


The Parthenon Marbles: Spoils of an Empire


The Parthenon Marbles: Imperial Spoils or Grecian Glories? What are the Parthenon Marbles? And why should we care where they are, let alone demand that they be returned to Greece? To answer these questions we need to go back in history. The Parthenon was built on the Athenian Acropolis in the Fifth Century BC as an enduring testament to Athens’ victory over the Persians and to the grandeur of that city. And we are all familiar with the controversy surrounding the Parthenon’s sculptures and great debate: Greece wants their Marbles back!
The history of their removal in a nutshell goes like this. In 1801 whilst Greece was under the yolk of the Ottoman oppression, the British Ambassador to Constantinople, Lord Elgin, got permission from the local Turkish authorities in the form of a firman to take moulds of the sculptures on the Parthenon as well as measurements. By a combination of bribery and good luck, Elgin’s men took advantage of the lax local officials and began stripping more than one hundred sculptures and significant fragments from the Parthenon for shipment back to Britain. Elgin then sold the sculptures to the British Government due to financial difficulties in 1816 and the Marbles became an exhibit at the British Museum. The British government not only gained title of the Parthenon sculptures, but in renaming the Parthenon sculptures 'the Elgin Collection' by an act of Parliament, it also distinctly erased their Greek origin. According to their former curator, Ian Jenkins, the acquisition of the Elgin marbles was “arguably the single most important event in the history of the British Museum”. Jenkins has written on numerous occasions of the marbles rites of passage and their transformation from architectural ornament into museum art object.
The British Museum has steadfastly refused all requests for the return of the sculptures and has cleverly tried to reinvent itself as a universal museum, representing the collective memory of mankind. However, there is now a significant new factor in the debate and after many years of discussion and planning, the Greeks have finally built a magnificent new museum at the foot of the Sacred Rock. The New Acropolis Museum is potentially the British Museum’s worst nightmare. The intention is that all the known surviving sculptures in Athens and London together with several smaller pieces in the Vatican, the Louvre and several other museums throughout Europe, will eventually be reunited and placed on display in the new museum within site of the Parthenon and in context.
The campaign for return is a worldwide phenomenon. With various committees including The Australians for the Reunification of the Parthenon Marbles campaigning for their return, various petitions claiming rightful ownership and even a Facebook group with over 11,000 members, when will these incredible sculptures return to their birthplace? In October 2007 Sydney University hosted a Parthenon Day series of talks and an exhibition of the new museum. The Parthenon Forum held at the Seymour Centre featured a number of leading speakers from Greece, including Professor Dimitrios Pandermalis, the President of the Organisation for the Construction of the New Acropolis Museum, and Maria Ioannidou, Director of the Acropolis Restoration Service, and Nikolaos Toganidis, the architect responsible for the Parthenon Restoration Project, who set out progress in the construction of the new museum and also in the nature and extent of the Acropolis restoration works that have been ongoing since 1975.
More recently, on 18 February 2008 the Cambridge University Union held a debate to argue the motion that the Parthenon Sculptures be returned to the New Acropolis Museum. The speakers for the motion were David Hill, a member of Australians for the Reunification of the Parthenon Marbles and the Chairman of the International Association for the Reunification of the Parthenon Sculptures, and Professor Anthony Snodgrass of the British Committee and an eminent classicist. The debate was nearly called off because it was difficult to find a speaker opposing the motion. The British Museum (despite its claims to being a universal museum) refused to provide any speakers and finally the art critic of the Guardian newspaper, Jonathon Jones, fronted up to debate the motion. The debate was won 114-46. Cultural treasures are a part of our dreaming and memory and spiritual landscape. The Parthenon Sculptures must be reunited to ensure that history and memory are simply not sacrificed for imperial grandeur and also to ensure their cultural integrity is restored within their rightful resting place.
Contributed by Eleni Vardas

[nsminc]

PF I wouldn't count on it any time soon.

[zefs]

Last Parthenon marbles threatened by pollution: archaeologist
6 hours ago

ATHENS (AFP) — A senior Greek archaeologist warned this week that the last original sculptures still adorning the Parthenon, Athens' iconic ancient temple, face a major pollution threat and must be removed to a museum.

"There are still 17 original metopes (sculpted plaques) which must be protected because they can no longer endure atmospheric conditions," Acropolis site supervisor Alexandros Mantis told AFP on Friday.

Mantis has proposed that the endangered sculptures be replaced by replicas and kept safe in a new museum located below the Acropolis that is scheduled to open in September.

He singled out 14 plaques on the Parthenon's western facade which are in a "pitiful" condition, plus two more on the northern side.

One of them is the so-called "Annunciation" plaque featuring two goddesses, which was spared by early Christians when the temple was turned into a church around 600 AD.

Athens' most recogniseable landmark and part of the ancient Acropolis citadel overlooking the city, the Parthenon dates back to the golden age of Athenian democracy which began in the fifth century B.C.

Few sculptures dating from the Acropolis' creation are still on-site, having been gradually removed by Greek archaeologists in the last 30 years during restoration works.

The famous Caryatids, statues of young women that acted as pillars to the Erechtheion temple, were themselves removed in 1979.

The issue was discussed last week by the Greek archaeological council (KAS), the influential 34-member state body that advises the culture ministry on heritage issues.

But the council is frequently split and this case was no exception.

"Mr Mantis has stated his position but the archaeological council has not ruled on the issue," said Maria Ioannidou, the archaeologist heading the Acropolis restoration project (YSMA).

"A relevant study must be carried out and an international conference must be held on the issue to reach a decision," she told AFP.

The culture ministry's head of ancient monument restoration, Dimosthenis Giraud, also advised caution.

"A detailed study of the issue is necessary," he said.

Sceptics say that removing the Parthenon's last original sculptures would strike a jarring note with hundreds of thousands of tourists who visit the monument every year.

There is also debate over how the move will affect Greece's case with the British Museum for the return of the Parthenon Marbles, the priceless friezes removed in the early 19th century by Lord Elgin, British ambassador to the Ottoman Empire which ruled Greece at the time.

The British have long accused Greek authorities of taking poor care of the vulnerable monument that was exposed to decades of air pollution.

Mantis insists that protecting the sculptures will strengthen Greece's case to have the Parthenon Marbles repatriated from London.

"We must protect our heritage at all costs," he said.

A total of 92 metopes once adorned the Parthenon's outer Doric frieze, the oldest sculptures on the temple dedicated to Athens' patron goddess Athena.

Depicting scenes of battle between gods and giants, men facing centaurs and Amazons, and the Trojan War, most of them are now nearly unrecognisable.

In addition to the changes wrought on the temple when it was turned into a church, it was badly damaged during a Venetian siege in 1687 when a cannon ball exploded in the Turkish powder magazine stored inside the Parthenon.

[Bardas]

From the BBC site

In pictures: Cleaning the Parthenon frieze

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v695/optimaton/parthenon1.jpg
Debate revived There has been wide praise for Greek experts' laser cleaning of part of the Parthenon west frieze. These carvings were left behind when Lord Elgin took others to London in 1911. But the display of the cleaned slabs has reopened debate on whether Elgin "saved" his Marbles from pollution.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v695/optimaton/parthenon2.jpg
Left behind Most of the west frieze of the Parthenon remained in place until 1993. Once a rich story told in colours , it was badly in need of cleaning and far from public view. Even after laser cleaning, acid rain scars remain.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v695/optimaton/parthenon3.jpg
Lift off The remaining west frieze slabs were transferred to the Acropolis museum in 1993. The British Museum says the surface had deteriorated badly after exposure to pollution, particularly sulphur in the air of Athens. It adds that the parts Elgin took were more exposed and would have suffered worse.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v695/optimaton/parthenon4.jpg
Stained by time Slab VII of the west frieze in situ on the Parthenon, showing riders in the Panathenaea procession. When the slabs were taken down "people feared the worst" - says writer William St Clair. But after cleaning, he says, they are in "far better condition than what was taken to London".

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v695/optimaton/parthenon5.jpg
A new look Slab VII after its laser cleaning. Professor Tony Snodgrass of the Committee to Restore the Parthenon Marbles praises the detail, finish and traces of colour which the cleaned slabs exhibit. He watched as the "honey-brown patina" emerged from below the black sooty deposit during cleaning.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v695/optimaton/parthenon7.jpg
Well groomed Horse from slab VIII during laser cleaning. The holes held harness in ancient times. The British Museum denies that the Athens slabs are in better shape than its own. Professor Snodgrass says people can now make up their minds about whether Elgin "saved" his Marbles.

The Greek team combined infra-red and ultra-violet beams to avoid the yellowing effect of lasers on marble. Dr Martin Cooper of the Liverpool Conservation Centre says lasers are a “very, very controlled” way of removing dirt.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v695/optimaton/parthenon9.jpg
On show The cleaned slabs have gone on display in the Acropolis Museum - looking rather browner than those in London (inset). Pro- and anti-Elginists agree that the brown "patina" of the surface has preserved many of the original details. They disagree over how much was lost during cleaning in London.

[Bardas]

Museum admits 'scandal' of Elgin Marbles

The British Museum has admitted that the controversial Elgin Marbles were damaged by "heavy handed" cleaning 60 years ago.

And it has said an attempt to cover up the damage to the marbles in the 1930s was "a scandal".

The admissions came on Tuesday during a two-day symposium in London to examine the ancient sculptures.

Two dozen conservation and archaeology specialists are trying to determine how the surfaces of the 2,500-year-old sculptures have been altered by cleaning.

Greece says staff used wire wool to clean the marbles at the British Museum in the 30s and caused significant damage.

But while admitting that the cleaning was "heavy handed", British Museum officials said the damage is not as bad as the Greeks claim.

The marbles have been in the British Museum for almost 200 years after being taken from the temple at the Parthenon in Athens by the then British ambassador Lord Elgin.

'Lost originality'

And amid increasing pressure for Britain to return the marbles, the Greeks say part of the reason they want them back is because Britain has failed to take proper care of them.

Greek expert Dr Alekos Mantis told the BBC the marbles had lost "the sense of originality".

But Ian Jenkins of the British Museum said the damage had been exaggerated for political reasons and that the Greeks were guilty of excessive cleaning of the marbles before they were brought to Britain.

Mr Jenkins said: "If Lord Elgin did not act as he did, the sculptures would not survive as they do. And the proof of that as a fact is merely to look at the things that were left behind in Athens."

The museum says the cover-up in the 1930s should not affect whether the marbles go back to Greece.

On Monday, Greece's culture minister Elisavet Papazoi said the "barbarous cleaning" of the marbles had meant many of the marble surfaces were stripped of original details such as chiselled grooves which characterise the architectural work of the Parthenon.

The battle over the fate of the 17 figures and part of a giant frieze that once decorated the Parthenon, on the Acropolis, has rumbled on for decades.

Lord Elgin took them while he was British ambassador to the Ottoman Empire, which then included Greece.

The Greeks describe his actions as theft, but the UK government has always insisted they were legally acquired and that there is no question of returning them to Greece.

But President Bill Clinton gave his support to Greece's campaign to reclaim the statues during a visit to the Acropolis earlier this month.

The British Museum is hosting the two-day gathering at the School of Oriental and African Studies.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/543077.stm

[Makedonia25]

Athens home fit for the Elgin Marbles

July 6, 2008

The Acropolis will finally have a museum fit for Greece’s greatest treasure.

A new museum will open in Athens later this year. No big deal, you might think. You’d be wrong. The New Acropolis Museum is not merely a dazzling piece of modernist architecture, but the latest gambit in a 200-year campaign for the return of the Elgin Marbles.

The museum, which has been 30 years in the planning and has cost the Greek government more than £100m, will at last provide a permanent home for the greatest treasures of the classical period, safe from the city’s corrosive, polluted air.

Built in the shadow of the Acropolis, it will display the sections of the marbles owned by Greece – alongside plaster copies of the “missing” sections that reside in the British Museum.

Whether the trustees of the British Museum will be persuaded to give up one of their biggest crowd-pullers, only time will tell.

But regardless of the outcome, the Greek authorities have created a world-class attraction, as I discovered recently on an exclusive tour with the museum’s curator, Professor Dimi-trios Pandermalis.

First, the history. In the early 19th century, the Parthenon was under attack by looters. Lord Elgin, the British ambassador, hired a team of workers to hack away at the monument, taking many of its finest sculptures and large chunks of the marble frieze that lined the inside rim. Elgin shipped the treasures back to England and then sold them to the British Museum for £35,000.

Fast-forward to the late 20th century. The marbles remain divided. Scientists discover the pollution in Athens is eating into the fabric of the Parthenon. The original Acropolis museum, built in the late 19th century, is cluttered and poorly maintained. A new museum is planned.

It took 25 years of wrangling before an architect was chosen: the controversial, Swiss-born Bernard Tschumi. His high-tech angular design – all glass, concrete and marble – stands in bold contrast to the monuments on the Acropolis. It’s a huge two-fingered salute to traditionalists, as emphatically modern and pleasing as IM Pei’s Louvre Pyramid in Paris.

Problems began as soon as the first spadeful of earth was dug. Beneath the site, builders discovered the remains of a settlement dating from the 4th century BC. Before each foundation was laid, protracted negotiations took place between architects, engineers and archeologists.

The result, though, is astonishing. The three-storey building appears to float over the ground on concrete piles, while beneath it the entire 4,000 sq metre site has been preserved. As you approach the entrance, you look down through glass panels cut into the plaza floor to see more than 2,000 years of history below, including immaculate mosaics.

Once inside, you climb a glass-floored ramp lined with some of the 50,000 artefacts found during the dig. “There are lifts, but we want people to walk up to remind them of the walk to the top of the Acropolis hill,” said Pandermalis.

We then went into a vast gallery designed to house 120 sculptures from the Archaic period. Daylight flooded in through floor-to-ceiling windows and glass panels high above our heads.

“The light is so beautiful in here, and it changes with the time of day and the seasons,” said the professor, standing before a towering statue of a goddess. “Look at the texture, the detail, it’s so soft. You can’t get that with artificial light.” I admired the quality of the marble. “We spent a long time choosing it,” he said. “It comes from Helicon, the sacred mountain of the Muses.”

The sheer scale – 10 times the size of the original Acropolis museum, with 14,000 sq metres of floor space – means exhibits have room to breathe. Visitors can wander between the thick concrete columns to find fresh angles and perspectives. It feels more like a temple than an exhibition space.

Beautiful though it was, Pandermalis was clearly anxious to get me up to the top floor, a huge glass-walled gallery where the treasures of the Parthenon will be displayed. Even without any exhibits, this would be a stunning building, with panoramic views across the city.

Wrapped around the central core of the gallery at eye level is the 160-metre-long frieze, with the Greek originals – coated in a soft brown patina – standing alongside white-plaster copies of the sections removed by Elgin. The effect is awe-inspiring. For the first time, visitors can see for themselves the travesty of splitting the marbles.

“It’s clearly ridiculous if you have a body in London and a head in Athens to keep them separate,” said Pandermalis. “Reunification is not just an emotional issue, it is a logical one. It’s a basic principle of archeology.”

With 2m people expected to visit the museum each year, the Greeks hope that public opinion will slowly force a change of heart in London. That looks unlikely in the near future.

The official line from Great Russell Street is that the British Museum is a superior home because it provides a “unique overview of world sculpture”.

After a recent visit to Athens, Dr Andrew Burnett, deputy director of the British Museum, said he was “very impressed”. So does the new building move the argument forward? “No,” said Burnett. “There is no proposition on the table [to return the marbles to Greece], so the subject has not been discussed by the trustees.”

Whatever the arguments, when you stand in that gallery, looking at the missing sections and gazing across to the Parthenon, it is hard not to feel an emotional tug. It may have been 30 years in the making, but this museum has been worth the wait.

http://travel.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/travel/destinations/greece/article4268110.ece

[Pan]

When you don't have an illustrious ancient history, you take from others through jealousy. This the western powers have been doing for 200yrs. If they truly thought otherwise they would return the artifacts to their rightful owners. This they will not do because their museums will become empty!!