Alxander III raid into Illyria 339 B.C.

[Cadmus]

Hi all!

I would like to get to know this obscure battle more!
It supposedly was fought at the city (Illyrian) of Pelion king Klit's town.
Alexander and his forces raided the area , and tried to subdue Illyrian forces that might form a serious threat..a large battle was fought in 339 b.c. with victory for the Macedonians..Pelion now Albania is on the Albanian side of lake Ohrid near the town of Pogradec.
This meaning the town of Lychnidos played a major part as stronghold and attack basis for these raids..

Any one more info on this one..

Here is a link to quite a nice site about Illyrian style of warfare..
Illyria (http://www.thrace.0catch.com/illyria_main.htm)



Also a king Plevrat is mentioned who took over the town of Lychnidos after a power-vacuum of the Macedonians.

Further i would like to mention Philip II battle in 358 b.c. against Bardylis where was this battle fought??

I presume in the exact area...

Who can help me...much appreciated ...thanks in advance!

[Ptolemy]

5. REVOLT OF CLITUS AND GLAUCIAS.

HE then advanced into the land of the Agrianians and Paeonians, where messengers reached him, who reported that Clitus, son of Bardylis, had revolted, and that Glaucias, king of the Taulantians, had gone over to him. Others also reported that the Autariatians intended to attack him on his way. He accordingly resolved to commence his march without delay. But Langarus, king of the Agrianians, who, in the lifetime of Philip, had been an open and avowed friend of Alexander, and had gone on an embassy to him in his private capacity, at that time also came to him with the finest and best armed of the shield-bearing troops, which he kept as a body-guard. When this man heard that Alexander was inquiring who the Autariatians were, and what was the number of their men, he said that he need take no account of them, since they were the least warlike of the tribes of that district; and that he would himself make an inroad into their land, so that they might have too much occupation about their own affairs to attack others. Accordingly, at Alexander’s order, he made an attack upon them; and not only did he attack them, but he swept their land clean of captives and booty. Thus the Autariatians were indeed occupied with their own affairs. Langarus was rewarded by Alexander with the greatest honours, and received from him the gifts which were considered most valuable in the eyes of the king of the Macedonians. Alexander also promised to give him his sister Cyna in marriage if he came to Pella. But Langarus fell ill and died on his return home.
After this, Alexander marched along the river Erigon, and proceeded to the city of Pelium; for Clitus had seized river Eordaicus, he resolved to make an assault upon the wall the next day. But Clitus held the mountains which encircled the city; moreover they commanded it from their height, and were covered with dense thickets. His intention was to fall upon the Macedonians from all sides, if they assaulted the city. But G laucias, king of the Taulantians, had not yet joined him. Alexander, however, led his forces towards the city; and the enemy, after sacrificing three boys, an equal number of girls, and three black rams, sallied forth for the purpose of receiving the Macedonians in a hand-to-hand conflict. But as soon as the Macedonians came to close quarters with them, they left the positions which they had occupied, strong as they were, in such haste that even their sacrificial victims were captured still lying on the ground.
On this day he shut them up in the city, and encamping near the wall, he resolved to close them in by a circumvallation; but on the next day Glaucias, king of the Taulantians, arrived with a great force. Then, indeed, Alexander gave up the hope of capturing the city with his present force, since many warlike troops had fled for refuge into it, and Glaucias with his large army would be likely to follow him up closely if he assailed the wall. But he sent Philotas on a foraging expedition, with the beasts of burden from the camp and a sufficient body of cavalry to serve as a guard. When Glaucias heard of the foray of Philotas he marched out to meet him, and seized the mountains which surrounded the plain, from which Philotas intended to procure forage. As soon as Alexander was informed that his cavalry and beasts of burden would be in danger if night ov..itook them, taking the shield-bearing troops, the archers, the Agrianians, and about four hundred cavalry, he went with all speed to their aid. The rest of the army he left behind near the city, to prevent the men in it from hastening forth to form a junction with Glaucias (as they would have done), if all the Macedonian army had withdrawn. Directly Glaucias perceived that Alexander was advancing, he evacuated the mountains, and Philotas and his forces returned to the camp in safety. But Clitus and Glaucias still imagined that they had caught Alexander in a disadvantageous position for they were occupying the mountains, which commanded the plain by their h eight, with a large body of cavalry, javelin-throwers, and slingers, besides a considerable number of heavy-armed infantry. Moreover, the men who had been beleaguered in the city were expected to pursue the Macedonians closely if they niade a retreat. The ground also through which Alexander had to march was evidently narrow and covered with wood; on one side it was hemmed in by the liver, and on the other there was a very lofty and craggy mountain, so that there would not be room for the army to pass, even if only four shield-bearers marched abreast.

6. DEFEAT OF CLITUS AND GLAUCIAS.
THEN Alexander drew up his army in such a way that the depth of the phalanx was 120 men; and stationing 200 cavalry on each wing, he ordered them to preserve silence, receiving the word of command quickly. Accordingly he gave the signal to the heavy-armed infantry in the first place to hold their spears erect, and then to couch them at the concerted sign; at one time to incline their spears to the right, closely locked together, and at another time towards the left. He then set the phalanx itself into quick motion forward, and marched it towards the wings, now to the right, and then to the left. After thus arranging and re-arranging his lines many times very rapidly, he at last formed his phalanx into a sort of wedge, and led it towards the left against the enemy, who had long been in a state of amazement at seeing both the order and the rapidity of his evolutions. Consequently they did not sustain Alexander’s attack, but quitted the first ridges of the mountain. Upon this, Alexander ordered the Macedonians to raise the battle-cry and make a clatter with their spears upon their shields; and the Taulantians, being still more alarmed at the noise, led their army back to the city with all speed.
As Alexander saw only a few of the enemy still occupying a ridge, along which lay his route, he ordered his bodyguards and personal companions to take their shields, mount their horses, and ride to the hill; and when they reached it, if those who had occupied the position awaited them, he said that half of them were to leap from their horses, and to fight as foot-soldiers, being mingled with the cavalry. But when the enemy saw Alexander’s advance, they quitted the hill and retreated to the mountains in both directions. Then Alexander, with his companions, seized the hill, and sent for the Agrianians and archers, who numbered 2,000. He also ordered the shield-bearing guards to cross the river, and after them the regiments of Macedonian infantry, with instructions that, as soon as the y had succeeded in crossing, they should draw out in rank towards the left, so that the phalanx of men crossing might appear compact at once. He himself, in the vanguard, was all the time observing from the ridge the enemy’s advance. They, seeing the force crossing the river, marched down the mountains to meet them, with the purpose of attacking Alexander’s rear in its retreat. But, as they were just drawing near, Alexander rushed forth with his own attendants, and the phalanx raised the battle-cry, with the intention of advancing through the river. When the enemy saw all the Macedonians marching against them, they gave way and fled. Upon this, Alexander led the Agrianians and archers at full speed towards the river, and succeeded in being himself the first man to cross it. But when he saw the enemy pressing upon the men in the rear, he stationed his engines of war upon the bank, and ordered the engineers to shoot from them as far forward as possible all sorts of projectiles which are usually shot from military engines. He directed the archers, also, to enter the water, and shoot their arrows from the middle of the river. But Glaucias durst not advance within range of the missiles; so that the Macedonians passed over in such safet y, that not one of them lost his life in the retreat.
Three days after this, Alexander discovered that Clitus and Glaucias lay carelessly encamped; that neither were their sentinels on guard at the posts assigned to them, nor had they protected themselves with a rampart or ditch, imagining he had withdrawn through fear; and that they had extended their line to a disadvantageous length. He therefore crossed the river again secretly, at the approach of night, leading with him the shield-bearing guards, the Agrianians, the archers, and the brigades of Perdiccas and Coenus, after having given orders for the rest of the army to follow. As soon as he saw a favourable opportunity for the attack, without waiting for all to be present, he despatched the archers and Agrianians against the foe. These, being arranged in phalanx, fell unawares with the most furious charge upon their flank, where they were likely to come into conflict with their weakest point, and slew some of them still in their beds, others being easily caught in their flight. Accordingly, many were there captured and killed, as were many also in the disorderly and panic-stricken retreat which ensued. Not a few, moreover, were taken prisoners. Alexander kept up the pursuit as far as the Taulantian mountains; and as many of them as escaped, preserved their lives by throwing away their arms. Clitus first fled for refuge into the city; then he set it on fire, and withdrew to Glaucias, in the land of the Taulantians.

Alexander the Great - Sources (http://websfor.org/alexander/arrian/book1a.asp)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v250/technotut/mapPhilipCampaigns.jpg

1. In 358 BC. Philip campaigns against Dardanians
2. In 358 BC. Philip campaigns against Paeonians.
3. In 345 BC. Philip campaigns against Ardiaioi.
4. In 340 BC. Alexander defeats the Maedi
5. In 339 BC. Philip defeats the Scythians.

[Cadmus]

Ptolemey!:clap2:

More then i could ask for!
Incredible...thanks..

[Tsontos]

A A Alexandros!

[Cadmus]

Ptolemy,

Can you please provide me with some info about the battle of PhilipII
against Bardylis?
I searched on the net but no account could be found that was informative enough:unsure:

Besides the battle was fought at the exact same spot (i think) where Perdicass and bardius fought against the Lyncestians (Arhabeus) in the Peloponessian wars on the Lyncestian plane...what's your opinion on this one?

Thanks

All the best..

Cadmus

[Ptolemy]

George Grote 'History of Greece' p.304

Bardylis and his Illyrians had possessed themselves of a considerable portion of Wester Macedonia (west of Mount Bermius), occupying for the most part the towns, villages and plains (Arrian vi,9.2.3) and restricting the native Macedonians to the defensible, yet barren hills. Philip Marched to attack them at the head of a force which had now contrived to increase to the number of 10,000 foot and 600 horse. The numbers of Bardylis were about equal; yet on hearing of Philip's approach, he sent a proposition tendering peace, on the condition that each party should retain what it actually possessed. His proposition being rejected, the two armies speedily met. Philip had collected around him on the right wing his chosen Macedonian troops, with whome he made his most vigorus on-set. manoeuvring at the same time with a boduy of cavalry so as to attack the left flank of the Illyrians. The battle contestd with the utmost obstinacy on both sides, was for some time undecided; nor could the king of Macedon break the oblong square into which his enemies had formed themselves. But at lenght his cavalry were enabled to charge them so effectively in flank and rear, that victory declared in his ffavour. The Illyrians fled, were vigorously pursued with the loss of 7,000 men and never again rallied. Bardylis presently sued for peace, and sonsented to purchase it by renouncing all his conquests in Macedonia; while Philip pushed his victory so strenuously as to reduce to subjection all the tribes eastward of Lake Lychnidus.

The conflicts between Perdiccas & Brasidas against Arrhabaeus arent so detailed to be able to say anything with certainty. However in this battle, we have a large number of soldiers, meaning the battleground should be a wide one, perhaps somewhere between Florina and Bitola.

[Ervald]

"Bardhyllis (also attested as Bardylis) was an Illyrian king who ruled from 385 to 358 BC and founded the Bardyllis Dynasty.

Initially a Dardanian coalman, he claimed the throne of the first Illyrian king, Sirra. He took back all Illyrian land from the Macedonians, defeating four Macedonian kings and was very popular with the Illyrian people when he divided up his spoils. Under his reign, the Illyrians nearly succeeded in destroying the kingdom of Macedon, but in 359 BC, Philip of Macedon conquered Illyria. Bardylis made peace with Philip before dying in 358 BC at the age of 90."

He did won many battles though :)

[Cadmus]

Yes, he was pretty good actually!

Many Macedonians were scared of them, and had suffered a lot! While fighting the Illyrians in northwestern Macedonia, Perdiccas III was mortally wounded and died in battle. Worse yet, during the same battle, the Macedonians suffered a demoralizing defeat losing about 4,000 soldiers, which constituted most of the Macedonian army.

Victorious, the Illyrians moved in and occupied northwestern Macedonia. Perched on the mountains of Lyncus they became a threat to the very existence of the Macedonian kingdom (his forces were seriously weakened by protecting two fronts the southern and northwestern where the Illyrians attacked...) but not much info is known about the battle of PhilipII and Bardyllis...to bad..also the previous Macedonian -Illyrian battles are badly documented\

This is what i had found on the net still very short..

"Without delay he (Philip) convened an assembly, raised the war-spirit of his men by suitable words, and led them into the territory held by the Illyrians, his army numbering not less than 10,000 infantry and 600 cavalry. Bardylis (the Illyrian chief) had not yet mustered the huge forces he had intended to lead into lower Macedonia. He therefore offered peace on the basis of the status quo. Philip replied that peace was acceptable only if Bardylis would evacuate his troops from all the Macedonian cities. This Bardylis was not prepared to do. Confident in the marvelous record and the numerous victories of his elite Illyrian troops, numbering 10,000 infantry and 500 cavalry, he advanced to engage in the open plain of Lyncus. The battle-cries of 20,000 voiced resounded from the hills.

Whether there was a preliminary cavalry engagement or not, Bardylis realized that he was outclassed in cavalry. In order to protect the flank and rear of his spearmen-phalanx from attacks by the enemy cavalry, he made his infantry form a hollow rectangle, of which the front facing the enemy was held by his best men and the other sides by less skilled troops, all facing outwards. The disadvantage of this formation was its immobility. The initiative lay now with Philip, who saw at once the merit of an attack on the enemy's leftmost front and left-hand side. He marched his phalanx forward at an oblique angle to the enemy's front, his right being advanced and his left retarded, and he massed his cavalry on his right. The king and the Royal Guardsmen were the leading infantrymen of the Macedonian right. As they approached the stationary Illyrians, they charged the enemy's left front with their massed pikes lowered (pikes never before seen by the Illyrians), smashed the corner of the square completely and let the cavalry in to attack the disrupted formation in flank and rear. The Illyrians broke and fled. The pursuit by the cavalry over the plain caused huge casualties: 7,000 out of 10,500. Bardylis sent envoys to sue for peace. Philip buried his dead on the battlefield in accordance with Macedonian custom, and made terms for peace, which included not only the recovery of all Macedonian cities but also the cession of territory up to the north-east shore of Lake Lychnitis. The peace with Bardylis was cemented by the marriage of Philip to an Illyrian princess, Audata". (Page 62, Nicholas G. L. Hammond, The Miracle That Was Macedonia).

Allthough it should be the Bitola plain or the area above Ohrid(Lychnidus) area of Struga..but where exactly:unsure: ????

[Cadmus]

This is from Thucydides:

(4.124) Brasidas and Perdiccas now joined their forces, and made a second expedition to Lyncus against Arrhibaeus. Perdiccas led his own Macedonian army and a force of hoplites supplied by the Hellenic inhabitants of the country. Brasidas, beside the Peloponnesians who remained with him, had under his command a body of Chalcidians from Acanthus and other cities which supplied as many troops as they severally could. The entire heavy-armed Hellenic forces numbered about three thousand; the Chalcidian and Macedonian cavalry nearly a thousand, and there was also a great multitude of barbarians. They entered the territory of Arrhibaeus, and there finding the Lyncestians ready for battle, they took up a position in face of them. The infantry of the two armies was stationed upon two opposite hills, and between them was a plain, into which the cavalry of both first descended and fought. Then the Lyncestian heavy-armed troops began to advance from the hill, and forming a junction with their cavalry, offered battle. Brasidas and Perdiccas now drew out their army and charged; the Lyncestians were put to flight and many slain; the rest escaped to the high ground, and there remained inactive. The conquerors raised a trophy, and waited for two or three days expecting the arrival of some Illyrians whom Perdiccas had hired. Then Perdiccas wanted, instead of sitting idle, to push on against the villages of Arrhibaeus, but Brasidas was anxious about Mendè, and apprehensive that the Athenians might sail thither and do some mischief before he returned. The Illyrians had not appeared; and for both reasons he was more disposed to retreat than to advance.

(4.125) But while they were disputing, the news arrived that the Illyrians had just betrayed Perdiccas and joined Arrhibaeus, whereupon they both resolved to retreat; for they were afraid of the Illyrians, who are a nation of warriors. Owing to the dispute nothing had been determined respecting the time of their departure. Night came on, and the Macedonians and the mass of the barbarians were instantly seized with one of those unaccountable panics to which great armies are liable.84 They fancied that the Illyrians were many times their real number, and that they were close at their heels; so, suddenly betaking themselves to flight, they hastened homewards. And they compelled Perdiccas, when he understood the state of affairs, which at first he did not, to go away without seeing Brasidas, for the two armies were encamped at a considerable distance from one another. At dawn Brasidas, finding that Arrhibaeus and the Illyrians were coming on and that the Macedonians had already decamped, resolved to follow them. So he formed his hoplites into a compact square, and placed his light-armed troops in the centre. He selected the youngest of his soldiers to run out upon the enemy at whatever point the attack might be made. He himself proposed during the retreat to take his post in the rear with three hundred chosen men, meaning to stop the foremost of his assailants and beat them off. Before the Illyrians came up he exhorted his soldiers, as far as the shortness of the time permitted, in the following words:

'Did I not suspect, men of Peloponnesus, that you may be terrified because you have been deserted by your companions and are assailed by a host of barbarians, I should think only of encouraging and not of instructing you.85 But now that we are left alone in the face of numerous enemies, I shall endeavour in a few words to impress upon you the main points which it concerns you to be informed of and to remember. For you ought to fight like men not merely when you happen to have allies present, but because courage is native to you; nor should you fear any number of foreign troops. Remember that in the cities from which you come, not the many govern the few, but the few govern the many, and have acquired their supremacy simply by successful fighting. Your enemies are barbarians, and you in your inexperience fear them. But you ought to know, from your late conflicts with the Macedonian portion of them86--and any estimate which I can form, or account of them which I receive from others, would lead me to infer--that they will not prove so very formidable. An enemy often has weak points which wear the appearance of strength; and these; when their nature is explained, encourage rather than frighten their opponents. As, on the other hand, where an army has a real advantage, the adversary who is the most ignorant is also the most foolhardy. The Illyrians, to those who have no experience of them, do indeed at first sight present a threatening aspect. The spectacle of their numbers is terrible, their cries are intolerable, and the brandishing of their spears in the air has a menacing effect. But in action they are not the men they look, if their opponents will only stand their ground; for they have no regular order, and therefore are not ashamed of leaving any post in which they are hard pressed; to fly and to advance being alike honourable, no imputation can be thrown on their courage. When every man is his own master in battle he will readily find a decent excuse for saving himself. They clearly think that to frighten us at a safe distance is a better plan than to meet us hand to hand; else why do they shout instead of fighting? You may easily see that all the terrors with which you have invested them are in reality nothing; they do but startle the sense of sight and hearing. If you repel their tumultuous onset, and, when opportunity offers, withdraw again in good order, keeping your ranks, you will sooner arrive at a place of safety, and will also learn the lesson that mobs like these, if an adversary withstand their first attack, do but threaten at a distance and make a flourish of valour, although if he yields to them they are quick enough to show their courage in following at his heels when there is no danger.'

(4.127) Brasidas, having addressed his army, began to retreat. Whereupon the barbarians with loud noise and in great disorder pressed hard upon him, supposing that he was flying, and that they could overtake and destroy his troops. But, wherever they attacked, the soldiers appointed for the purpose ran out and met them, and Brasidas himself with his chosen men received their charge. Thus the first onset of the barbarians met with a resistance which surprised them, and whenever they renewed the attack the Lacedaemonians received and repelled them again, and when they ceased, proceeded with their march. Thereupon the greater part of the barbarians abstained from attacking Brasidas and his Hellenes in the open country; but leaving a certain number to follow and harass them, they ran on after the fugitive Macedonians and killed any with whom they fell in. They then secured beforehand the narrow pass between two hills which led into the country of Arrhibaeus, knowing that this was the only path by which Brasidas could retreat. And as he was approaching the most dangerous point of the defile they began to surround him in the hope of cutting him off.

(4.128) Perceiving their intention, he told his three hundred to leave their ranks and run every man as fast as he could to the top of one of the hills, being the one which he thought the barbarians would be most likely to occupy; and before a larger number of them could come up and surround them, to dislodge those who were already there.87 They accordingly attacked and defeated them; and so the main body of his army more easily reached the summit; for the barbarians, seeing their comrades defeated and driven from the high ground, took alarm; they considered too that the enemy were already on the borders of the country, and had got away from them, and therefore followed no further. Brasidas had now gained the high ground and could march unmolested; on the same day he arrived at Arnissa, which is in the dominion of Perdiccas. The soldiers were enraged at the hasty retreat of the Macedonians, and when they came upon carts of theirs drawn by oxen, or any baggage which had been dropped in the flight, as was natural in a retreat made in a panic and by night, they of themselves loosed the oxen and slaughtered them, and appropriated the baggage. From that time forward Perdiccas regarded Brasidas in the light of a foe, and conceived a new hatred of the Peloponnesians, which was not a natural feeling in an enemy of the Athenians. Nevertheless, disregarding his own nearest interests, he took steps to make terms with the one and get rid of the other.

I'm pretty sure this one was near Bitola and Florina plain but the Bardyllis battle??

I would say near Struga on the north-eastern shore around Lychnitis lake!
There is a strange and scary folk/saying around that area (i have heard it several times through my mothers family members and others ) that there is a area slightly to the north of Struga near a village called Sbusdie (or something similair) where in the valley at night it spookes, and the saying says that there was in ancient times a terrible battle there, and at night it is spooky in the valley, where strange cries and things occure...

Maybe to much rakija or beer/ouzo for the locals but then again who knows!

[Cadmus]

Now where the ,..... would the village (albanian) Selca(ancient Pelion) be..??
On google earth there is nothing between Elbasan and Korce!
Also Lin carries a Illyrian settlement...if it's the one submerged(few meters in front of the peninsula in the lake) then i allready knew that ! but if they mean another where would that one be?

[olvios]

Thrace and the Thracians 700 BC-46 AD (http://home.exetel.com.au/bmboats/)

On thracians and illyrians mostly.