Euklid
01-30-2007, 10:08 PM
I will translate for you dear Readers in my own words, a passage from the Symposium of Plato.
Just to let you know, the events of the Symposium are true.
Symposium means Party and almost 2500 years ago Agathon had a party to celebrate his victory in an Athenian competition called Linaia Games.
He invited Plato, Socrates, Aristophanes the Great Comedian, Alkiviades the Athenian governor was there and some others less important figures.
They sat down and they decided to discuss about Eros, or Love, their rule was that only one spekas at a time with a clockwise rotation according to where seated.
I will skip most of their speeches which most of them are idiotic and useless and i will go down to the juice, to Socrates. Btw, when Plato's turn came to speak, he said: "sorry, am not really up for it today, to speak about love, please allow me to comment and criticize the ones that have already spoken" And so he did, so Plato actually didnt say how he perceives Love, and how he defines Love.
However, Plato is the one that afterwards he went home, he wrote every single thing down, even the thoughts he made in his mind while the others were talking.
So to cut to the chase, Socrates is speaking, but he is using a story to tell his beliefs. He says to everybody:
"Once upon a time i met a woman called Diotima, she was very wise, so wise she even stopped a plague from coming to Athens with various medicine and prayers to our Gods. I used to believe that Eros was a Great God, beautiful and powerful but she proved me wrong the same way that i proved wrong our host, Agathon"
So here it goes:
S: "Wtf are you saying Diotima is Eros ugly and evil?"
D: "Why are you blaspheming Socrates, who told you that what is not beautiful and good is necessarily ugly and evil?"
S: "But ofc it is"
D: "Oh, my poor man, and everything that is not wise is necessarily idiotic? Dont you know that there is something in between wisdom and stupidity?"
S: "And what is this something?"
D: "This something is for someone to have a true opinion without being able to prove it, ofc this is not a science cause it lacks the proof, however it is not stupidity either cause it manages to reach to the essence of matter. A valid opinion is something that exists between wisdom and amathy."
S: "You 're right"
D: "So, didnt you say that something that is not beautiful is necesarily ugly and also something that is not good is necessarily evil. As you can this doesnt apply everywhere. Same goes for Eros."
S: "However, Diotima you have to admit that he is recognized by everyone as a God and a Great one for that matter."
D: "Who is everyone Socrates? The ones that know? Or the ones that they dont?"
S: "Everybody irrespectively"
[Then she smiled and said]:
D: The faith of many people to a particular thing does not guarantee its truthfullness. And also, Socrates, how do you say that he is recognized as a Great God when the same people claim that he is not a God at all?"
S: "But who is those people that say so?"
D: " Well I am and YOU ARE"
S: "How did you manage to gather that?"
D: "Oh its very easy. Answer me: dont you admit that all the gods are happy and beautifull? Or do you dare to say that even one of them isnt?"
S: "Ofc i dont dare, To Zeus, never."
D: "But a while ago, you claimed that Eros craves the the good and beautiful, if he craves them, then that means that he doesnt have them...Did you or did you not say so?"
S: "Well, yes i did"
D: "So how can he be a God, when he lacks the beauty and goodness?"
S: "Well yeah, ok you do have a point"
D: So, do you see that even yourself claims that Eros is not a God?"
S: WTF Diotima, am about to go mental, Tell me then wtf is he? Is he mortal? Tell me..tell me."
D: "Ofc not"
S: "Then?"
D: "As we already illustrated with the previous examples, Socrates, he is something in between a God and a mortal"
S: "Tell me what is Eros?, cause am about to blow up!"
D: "DEAMON Socrates, he is a Deamon, Arent Deamons somewhere in between the mortals and the gods?"
S: "And what is a deamon Diotima? What is their task? Their purpose?"
D: "Their purpose is similar to that of Hermes and Charon, to transfer and translate messages from Gods to Mortals and prayers of Mortals to the Gods. The race of the Deamons, is the link between the divine and the human, it is the ones that keeep the universe together, the ones that bind everything together, the cosmic glue. Man cannot approach god, so the deamons are appointed for this task. this communication takes place while we are awake and also while we are asleep. And whoever knows how to translate this communication is wise and deamonic, such are the poets, the lawmakers, the philosophers, the prophets, and the inventors." So these deamons are plenty, however their King, their Ruler is Eros, i would say".
S: "So, Diotima, and who are the parents of Eros? Where did he come from?"
D: "Oh this is a great story, and i will narrate it to you....."
I will narrate it to you dear Readers another time......now am gonna go to sleep.
I hope that you shall enjoy this short dialectical argument, which more or less, is where our Western Civilization is derived from.
This is one of the finest examples of the dialectical arguments. This speech took place in Athens in the year 416 B.C., Month is Gamilion(I dont know the one corresponding but i do know that its winter) in the House of Agathon.
This is more or less, why the Greeks have coined the phrase: "when we were.......;you were still hanging from the trees" :p
Just to let you know, the events of the Symposium are true.
Symposium means Party and almost 2500 years ago Agathon had a party to celebrate his victory in an Athenian competition called Linaia Games.
He invited Plato, Socrates, Aristophanes the Great Comedian, Alkiviades the Athenian governor was there and some others less important figures.
They sat down and they decided to discuss about Eros, or Love, their rule was that only one spekas at a time with a clockwise rotation according to where seated.
I will skip most of their speeches which most of them are idiotic and useless and i will go down to the juice, to Socrates. Btw, when Plato's turn came to speak, he said: "sorry, am not really up for it today, to speak about love, please allow me to comment and criticize the ones that have already spoken" And so he did, so Plato actually didnt say how he perceives Love, and how he defines Love.
However, Plato is the one that afterwards he went home, he wrote every single thing down, even the thoughts he made in his mind while the others were talking.
So to cut to the chase, Socrates is speaking, but he is using a story to tell his beliefs. He says to everybody:
"Once upon a time i met a woman called Diotima, she was very wise, so wise she even stopped a plague from coming to Athens with various medicine and prayers to our Gods. I used to believe that Eros was a Great God, beautiful and powerful but she proved me wrong the same way that i proved wrong our host, Agathon"
So here it goes:
S: "Wtf are you saying Diotima is Eros ugly and evil?"
D: "Why are you blaspheming Socrates, who told you that what is not beautiful and good is necessarily ugly and evil?"
S: "But ofc it is"
D: "Oh, my poor man, and everything that is not wise is necessarily idiotic? Dont you know that there is something in between wisdom and stupidity?"
S: "And what is this something?"
D: "This something is for someone to have a true opinion without being able to prove it, ofc this is not a science cause it lacks the proof, however it is not stupidity either cause it manages to reach to the essence of matter. A valid opinion is something that exists between wisdom and amathy."
S: "You 're right"
D: "So, didnt you say that something that is not beautiful is necesarily ugly and also something that is not good is necessarily evil. As you can this doesnt apply everywhere. Same goes for Eros."
S: "However, Diotima you have to admit that he is recognized by everyone as a God and a Great one for that matter."
D: "Who is everyone Socrates? The ones that know? Or the ones that they dont?"
S: "Everybody irrespectively"
[Then she smiled and said]:
D: The faith of many people to a particular thing does not guarantee its truthfullness. And also, Socrates, how do you say that he is recognized as a Great God when the same people claim that he is not a God at all?"
S: "But who is those people that say so?"
D: " Well I am and YOU ARE"
S: "How did you manage to gather that?"
D: "Oh its very easy. Answer me: dont you admit that all the gods are happy and beautifull? Or do you dare to say that even one of them isnt?"
S: "Ofc i dont dare, To Zeus, never."
D: "But a while ago, you claimed that Eros craves the the good and beautiful, if he craves them, then that means that he doesnt have them...Did you or did you not say so?"
S: "Well, yes i did"
D: "So how can he be a God, when he lacks the beauty and goodness?"
S: "Well yeah, ok you do have a point"
D: So, do you see that even yourself claims that Eros is not a God?"
S: WTF Diotima, am about to go mental, Tell me then wtf is he? Is he mortal? Tell me..tell me."
D: "Ofc not"
S: "Then?"
D: "As we already illustrated with the previous examples, Socrates, he is something in between a God and a mortal"
S: "Tell me what is Eros?, cause am about to blow up!"
D: "DEAMON Socrates, he is a Deamon, Arent Deamons somewhere in between the mortals and the gods?"
S: "And what is a deamon Diotima? What is their task? Their purpose?"
D: "Their purpose is similar to that of Hermes and Charon, to transfer and translate messages from Gods to Mortals and prayers of Mortals to the Gods. The race of the Deamons, is the link between the divine and the human, it is the ones that keeep the universe together, the ones that bind everything together, the cosmic glue. Man cannot approach god, so the deamons are appointed for this task. this communication takes place while we are awake and also while we are asleep. And whoever knows how to translate this communication is wise and deamonic, such are the poets, the lawmakers, the philosophers, the prophets, and the inventors." So these deamons are plenty, however their King, their Ruler is Eros, i would say".
S: "So, Diotima, and who are the parents of Eros? Where did he come from?"
D: "Oh this is a great story, and i will narrate it to you....."
I will narrate it to you dear Readers another time......now am gonna go to sleep.
I hope that you shall enjoy this short dialectical argument, which more or less, is where our Western Civilization is derived from.
This is one of the finest examples of the dialectical arguments. This speech took place in Athens in the year 416 B.C., Month is Gamilion(I dont know the one corresponding but i do know that its winter) in the House of Agathon.
This is more or less, why the Greeks have coined the phrase: "when we were.......;you were still hanging from the trees" :p