The Pyrros Dimas and other things Thread

[Ervald]

An arvanite is the same as the modern Pyrro Dhima! or Leonidas Shabanis (Luan! its the proper name), and that woman with the spear who cant even spell a greek word, now in medias she is greek to.

[Euklid]

What you say about religion is true, however in the middle-ages, it didnt work that way.

When the congueror puts you on the spot, and tells you: Change your beliefs and ill reward you with money and land, and in return i want you to help me to kill your brothers and sisters. And he accepts, just like most of modern-day Albanians.

Then the ones that did not accept and fought their brothers and sisters who did accept, have every right to feel disgust for the betrayors.

Now how come the betrayors forget that they killed their brothers and sisters in the name of the Sultan just for material benefits?

And you know what, how come they have the nerve to ask for understanding from the Arvanites?

I have heard modern Albs calling the Arvanites degrading names for considering themselves Greeks.

But reality is sad. These Arvanites found more understanding and allies with the Greeks than with their own kind. It is sad but true.

Atm after a century the Albos have forgotten that 2 centuries ago, they were killing their brothers.

Their brothers have not forgotten it though.

[taikou]

and that woman with the spear who cant even spell a greek word, now in medias she is greek to.

http://wiki.phantis.com/index.php/Mirella_Maniani-Tzelili

[Amarantos]

and that woman with the spear who cant even spell a greek word, now in medias she is greek to


Mi...aniani-Tzelili - Phantis (http://wiki.phantis.com/index.php/Mi...aniani-Tzelili)

yes,i remember watching one of her interviews on a greek fashion tv programe a month ago,but unfortunately she was talking in greek,since you make a problem out of this

[Flipper]

An arvanite is the same as the modern Pyrro Dhima!

Pyrros Dhmas is not a Hellenized Albanian. He is an Epirot that grew up in Albania .

[Tsontos]

Flipper didnt you know, all the Greeks of Albania are just Hellenized Albanians, or just settlers from Greece sent to destablise Hotza's regime

[Tsontos]

Guys im guilty of it as well but we have to stop mixing up topics. If you want to talk about Arvanites then do it in another thread. If you want to talk about Kastriotis then do it in the other thread.

This thread is about Illyrians being the the ancestors of Albanians or thereabouts. Anymore posts not about the subject will be moved or deleted

[Theodosivs]

Pyrros Dhmas is not a Hellenized Albanian. He is an Epirot that grew up in Albania .

Look at his last name. Dhima, thats a christian Alb name from laberia last name.
It's not the least surprising that the name is common among Arvanites.

[Euklid]

Theodosius you are 2 centuries late now.

Try telling Pyrrho, whom i know personally that he is an Albo.

[Flipper]

Look at his last name. Dhima, thats a christian Alb name from laberia last name.
It's not the least surprising that the name is common among Arvanites.

Dhima maybe...But Dimas is a Greek surname along side with Karadimas, papadimas etc. And Pyrros is epirotan...

And as Euklid sayd...Try telling him that personaly. Have you complitely missed his speech when he won his first olympic gold? Obviously...

[Theodosivs]

Dhima is a the Albanian vernacular of the Christian name Demetri.

His not Albanian, not in my eyes. However his origins cannot be mistaken.

Read 'The late medieval balkans' by Fine, he describes the medieval Himariots as Albanian tribesmen. Their villages in Italy today are considered Arberesh villages.

He was born under the name Dhima, not Dimas. And Papadhima is also in Albanian. The descedant of a priest named Dhima.

[Flipper]

Dhima is a the Albanian vernacular of the Christian name Demetri.

His not Albanian, not in my eyes. However his origins cannot be mistaken.

Read 'The late medieval balkans' by Fine, he describes the medieval Himariots as Albanian tribesmen. Their villages in Italy today are considered Arberesh villages.

He was born under the name Dhima, not Dimas. And Papadhima is also in Albanian. The descedant of a priest named Dhima.

Ok, now you are kidding me. No comments...

[Tsontos]

yeah and Phyro is an albanian name as well haha. I remember the Albanians claiming the Australian kickboxer from North Epirus called Phillipid(i)without the 's' :lol:

[Tsontos]

And Im not gonna warn you guys again. Anymore posts not about The Illyrians will be deleted. If you want to talk about Dimas then make a new thread

[Ervald]

What you say about religion is true, however in the middle-ages, it didnt work that way.

When the congueror puts you on the spot, and tells you: Change your beliefs and ill reward you with money and land, and in return i want you to help me to kill your brothers and sisters. And he accepts, just like most of modern-day Albanians.

Then the ones that did not accept and fought their brothers and sisters who did accept, have every right to feel disgust for the betrayors.

Now how come the betrayors forget that they killed their brothers and sisters in the name of the Sultan just for material benefits?

And you know what, how come they have the nerve to ask for understanding from the Arvanites?

I have heard modern Albs calling the Arvanites degrading names for considering themselves Greeks.

But reality is sad. These Arvanites found more understanding and allies with the Greeks than with their own kind. It is sad but true.

Atm after a century the Albos have forgotten that 2 centuries ago, they were killing their brothers.

Their brothers have not forgotten it though.

when did we killed our brothers?

u mean ali pasha tepelena?..he got rid of the filthy vllachs from our land, thats for sure, and was against the sultan.

It's hard for you to understand, albania its not a flat place where anyone can jump in and play with us.
Those times were harsh, the men lived for 'bese' and honor for their land. and thats how we controlled our lands, even in ottoman times, and not by the turks!

[Ervald]

Pyrros Dhmas is not a Hellenized Albanian. He is an Epirot that grew up in Albania .

ah really?

show me his bio then lets have a look :)

[Ervald]

Dhima maybe...But Dimas is a Greek surname along side with Karadimas, papadimas etc. And Pyrros is epirotan...

And as Euklid sayd...Try telling him that personaly. Have you complitely missed his speech when he won his first olympic gold? Obviously...

first, you need to learn about 'your' names then talk about where Dhima belongs to!

and yeah, for us the albanians Pirro Dhima is a big traitor along with Luan Shabani, the blonde woman from durres and some more.

Shabanis would have said the same thing if he had won the gold medal dont worry... they will be super greeks if u pay them.

It's kinda pathetic you know..

Since we the albanians have a bad image in u medias, but I see Mirele manjanin on Star channel like she is somth special for you.
or you choose what to like and what to make greek?

[PhiliptheUniterchaeronea]

Ervald, mellow out man. By hte way, why does it matter if Luan Shabani is blonde? We all know blondes, Greek and Albanian. Who cares?!!

[Ervald]

luan isnt blonde and i didnt mention that!

I just dont like how you choose who to make greek and who not!

[akritas]

I just dont like how you choose who to make greek and who not!
Παιδεία...teaching either from home and either from school:)


And to all members
STAY IN THE TOPIC PLEASE

[Theodosivs]

Ok, now you are kidding me. No comments...

I didnt mean it was Alb, I meant it was used in Alb... I have family members who were of the surname Pappa, and they always said that was because at one point or another our family had a priest.

Im not Orthodox today so I dont know what the rules are in that religion. But from what I know the priests can marry... Is that so?

[Flipper]

first, you need to learn about 'your' names then talk about where Dhima belongs to!

and yeah, for us the albanians Pirro Dhima is a big traitor along with Luan Shabani, the blonde woman from durres and some more.

Shabanis would have said the same thing if he had won the gold medal dont worry... they will be super greeks if u pay them.

It's kinda pathetic you know..

Since we the albanians have a bad image in u medias, but I see Mirele manjanin on Star channel like she is somth special for you.
or you choose what to like and what to make greek?

1) You should know where the name Pyrros belongs to for a starter.

2) I'm talking only about Pyrros and not for Mirela or any other athlete.

3) Even if your theory was correct, explain to me how people descending from Minor Asia are called Karadimas? Kara is for sure turkish, but Dhima does not fit in the picture.

4) Mirela Manjanin has been mentioned as "Greek athlete of Albanian origin" contrary to Pyrros. Pyrros had an incident with a guy calling him Albo back in 1994, something he didn't appreciate at all.

5) Even if your theory is correct again, I will remind you that people living in foreign places change their names to local ones to avoid discrimination. That is why you will see a black guy in sweden names Svensson or an asian guy in Denmark called Jensen. Still the name Pyrros remains Epirotan.

6) This reminds me of Greeks saying that Silvester Stalone is Greek. Since these things I read here are not new to me but are posted usually by people hanging in pages like Stormfront and Pan-Aryan National Front forums, I've taken my measurement and have access to an Albanian dictionary. Let me also remind you that i speak regularly with other Albanians that can verify things for me. To answer to you and theodosivs I have these observations.


a) Priest in albanian is "prift".
b) Words starting with papa are "papafingo" (attic, loft), "papastërti" (dirt), paparë (exotic), papastërti (filth), paparashikuar (unforseen), papajtueshëm (incompatible) just to name a few.
c) I can't find an entry for Dhi-ma or Dima.
d) Dhmas/Dhmaratos in Attic Greek is someone who is popular amongst the people.


7) Since we're all indoeuropean you will always find similar words in all languages. F.ex you use përpara to say "in front of" which is similar to the Doric form Proparithen/Preparithen according to Defner.

[Flipper]

I didnt mean it was Alb, I meant it was used in Alb... I have family members who were of the surname Pappa, and they always said that was because at one point or another our family had a priest.

Im not Orthodox today so I dont know what the rules are in that religion. But from what I know the priests can marry... Is that so?

Sorry then. We're cool. Yeah a priest can be married but he cannot then become an archebishop.

[Euklid]

Valdi, you are easy to locate as it seems.LOL

[Tsontos]

when did we killed our brothers?

u mean ali pasha tepelena?..he got rid of the filthy vllachs from our land, thats for sure, and was against the sultan.

It's hard for you to understand, albania its not a flat place where anyone can jump in and play with us.
Those times were harsh, the men lived for 'bese' and honor for their land. and thats how we controlled our lands, even in ottoman times, and not by the turks!

Look you got to understand you didnt really control your lands if any because it was some harsh medival world. It was very simple, very controlled Ottoman Yoke based on the Milliyet system

You (the vast majority), like the Slavs of Sanjak, adopted the faith of the Turks and therefore gained freedoms in terms of taxes and carrying arms. Ali tepelena was just another whore who thought he had gained enough power because of the prevlidges the Turks gave him and then he was quickly destroyed once he betrayed them. You went to mosque and had pray mats. It wasnt a post-modern world were you can say "The religion of Albanians is being albanian" firstly because Albania's strange brand of communistic nationalism didnt exist yet and secondly because their was no internet and you didnt know what an illyrian or an illyrian pagan god was.

And watch what you say about Vlachs or other people on this forum because it will not be tolerated.

[Ervald]

Valdi, you are easy to locate as it seems.LOL

yes i live in Zakynthos..I have no problems if someone wants to see me

[Ervald]

Look you got to understand you didnt really control your lands if any because it was some harsh medival world. It was very simple, very controlled Ottoman Yoke based on the Milliyet system

You (the vast majority), like the Slavs of Sanjak, adopted the faith of the Turks and therefore gained freedoms in terms of taxes and carrying arms. Ali tepelena was just another whore who thought he had gained enough power because of the prevlidges the Turks gave him and then he was quickly destroyed once he betrayed them. You went to mosque and had pray mats. It wasnt a post-modern world were you can say "The religion of Albanians is being albanian" firstly because Albania's strange brand of communistic nationalism didnt exist yet and secondly because their was no internet and you didnt know what an illyrian or an illyrian pagan god was.

And watch what you say about Vlachs or other people on this forum because it will not be tolerated.

look...you believe or not, but I can inform you that 'those' albanians didnt had any mosque to go and pray to allah. only the big cities had one each.
so we do have today. but we just keep them for decoration.
come in the region i was born in albania and find me mosques, old ones new ones, if u find a single one then ur right, if not, dont open ur mouth so fast when u dont know..to much blabla makes men like sheep!

and again...

I prooved that you make non greke people greek only for interest!

like your ministers who are coming in south albania, trying to make the religious vllachs who have nothing to do with greece, and amke them greek! so by that move they can double the size of the greek minority.

Vllachs are not greek,, nor albanian, nor slavic, they come from wallachia, are romanian sheperds!

[PhiliptheUniterchaeronea]

luan isnt blonde and i didnt mention that!

I just dont like how you choose who to make greek and who not!

Dude, you did say she was blonde. Besides we don't choose who is Greek. What's the matter dude, mellow out. Relax. What's your worry. I thought you liked Greeks since you live there. Only a moron would live somplace where they hate the people. You don't strike me as a moron.

If you want to catch up with people on Zakynthos, sure, I'll have a dringk with you and your buddiesi I you want to be aggro, then I won't be shy, I just won't seek it. So mellow out.

[PhiliptheUniterchaeronea]

Do you think Greece is really Albania and full of mostly Albanians? I won't be offended by your answer, just be honest dude. Take care.

[Tsontos]

I dont care what conclusions you've come to about the origins of Vlachs through your own research. But you will respect the forum rules and not refer to them as "filthy Vlachs" again or you will be suspended

[Ervald]

Do you think Greece is really Albania and full of mostly Albanians? I won't be offended by your answer, just be honest dude. Take care.


I dont know if you have been to Zakynthos, but I wouldnt call this place as fully greek! knowing the history of this land etc.

Yes I have greek friends, and we are doing very well together. The problem is teh Medias, and your goverment, not some of the people. I know my people arent all saints nor goverment is perfect.


Voulgaroktonos: I used that Name calling because they are backstabbing us lately in albania, by trying to pass as Vorio Epirotes and giving the chance to greece, to name the lands where they reside as greek!

[Tsontos]

I'am not going to call all Albanians filth because the Albanian government has brought Tosk settlers to the south to make the demographics more "Albanian". So you do the same and whatever problem you have with Greeks, Vlachs, Slavs or anyone else debate civillised and without so much emotion.

[Ervald]

they brought what in the south?

my grandfather was born there, and his grandfathers were born there and so on.

places like Gjonomadh (christian alb name George..Gjon..madh=big)

so you are wrong again im sorry, seems like someone else came to us!

[Tsontos]

When did I say there were no native (non-settler) Albanians in South Albania? All I said was that the government brought Tosks from the North to make the demographics more albanian.

[Ervald]

When did I say there were no native (non-settler) Albanians in South Albania? All I said was that the government brought Tosks from the North to make the demographics more albanian.

there is no such thing as tosks or geghs..

dont get confused or try to be smart here.

the south albanians call themselves Labe , the other nations call us Tosks

[Tsontos]

The point is that demographics have been tampered with not the self-descriptive name of the Tosks! But I dont hold it against you personally do I? So back to my original point of never referring to any ethnicity in a derogative manner while on this forum

[Euklid]

I was talking bout another place, but its ok.

Listen Ervald, what makes an American?

Ancestry?

What makes an Albanian? And what makes a Greek?

As Akritas already told you its Paideia.

However there are some extreme cases like the Greeks for example, look at all these fine individuals around you, some of them cant even spell a word of Greek, they are 3rd Generation Australians or Canadians or Americans, and they still declare as Greek.

The Greeks along with the Albs, however the Albs in a less succesful kinda way are very strict in their traditions and even 10 generation Americans, still declare as Greeks.

However that is a case per se. This does not apply to more or else anyone else in this world; what applies for the majority is the Paideia.

So, yes the Arvanites are highlely likely to come from the same root as the Albanians. However, at the moment they have nothing to do and they do not want to have anything to do, due to various reasons, primarily due to the Ottoman/Muslim betrayal.

This is what the concrete facts tells us.

[Spartan]

The reality of the matter is that the Vlachs and Arvanites CALL THEMSELVES GREEKS not the Greeks making them Greek! They fought on the side of the Greeks for GREEK INDEPENDENCE, so they as much as anyone have the right to call themselves what they want! The Arvanites don't recognize themselves as being Albanian so why does it bother you so?

That is what is called Self-Determination, unlike what the Skops claim it is!

Anyways I thought the thread was about the connection between the Illyrians and the Albanians, so why all the talk about Arvanites and Vlachs?

[Tsontos]

Certain sections of Vlach speaking families of Epirus, Thessaly, Macedonia had Greek ancestry at least in part and they rose for Greece. Yet on several occassions Kapodistria and others expected all the Vlachs to rise with the Greeks in Macedonia and Epirus but many did not, because they didnt consider themselves Greek.

[Flipper]

I dont know if you have been to Zakynthos, but I wouldnt call this place as fully greek! knowing the history of this land etc.

Yes I have greek friends, and we are doing very well together. The problem is teh Medias, and your goverment, not some of the people. I know my people arent all saints nor goverment is perfect.


Voulgaroktonos: I used that Name calling because they are backstabbing us lately in albania, by trying to pass as Vorio Epirotes and giving the chance to greece, to name the lands where they reside as greek!

No, we won't say it is Greek. Greeks happened to create colonies in Illyria but that doesn't mean we want your land 2700 years later.

But what has albanian history to do with Zakynthos?

[Flipper]

The reality of the matter is that the Vlachs and Arvanites CALL THEMSELVES GREEKS not the Greeks making them Greek! They fought on the side of the Greeks for GREEK INDEPENDENCE, so they as much as anyone have the right to call themselves what they want! The Arvanites don't recognize themselves as being Albanian so why does it bother you so?

That is what is called Self-Determination, unlike what the Skops claim it is!

Anyways I thought the thread was about the connection between the Illyrians and the Albanians, so why all the talk about Arvanites and Vlachs?

Very well said. I see arvanites as fellow patriots. The same goes to Vlachs.

[Leonatos]

Voulgaroktonos: I used that Name calling because they are backstabbing us lately in albania, by trying to pass as Vorio Epirotes and giving the chance to greece, to name the lands where they reside as greek!

The vlachs,whatever their origin, identify as Greeks whether they are in Greece or in Albania.They fought against the [derogatory comment deleted] side by side with the rest of the Greeks,should i remind you of the burning of the largest vlach city in Albania,Moscopolis,by muslim albanians?
You should respect the self determination of all the people in your country.If the vlachs in albania want to be Greeks you SHOULD let them be part of the Greek minority.

[Tsontos]

The vlachs,whatever their origin, identify as Greeks whether they are in Greece or in Albania.They fought against the infidel dogs (muslim albanians,turkalvanoi) side by side with the rest of the Greeks,should i remind you of the burning of the largest vlach city in Albania,Moscopolis,by muslim albanians?
You should respect the self determination of all the people in your country.If the vlachs in albania want to be Greeks you SHOULD let them be part of the Greek minority.


I respect the self-determination of every people in Greece. I was speaking strictly historically. There were many Vlachs who Greece thought would rise up for Hellenism in Thessaly, Macedonia and Epirus; not all did however as they didnt feel Greek.

Today almost 100% of Vlachs in Greece and many in Albania describe themselves as Greeks and most of them have Greek ancestry. The Vlachs who didnt identify as Greeks left for Romania either before or after WW2.

[Leonatos]

I respect the self-determination of every people in Greece. I was speaking strictly historically. There were many Vlachs who Greece thought would rise up for Hellenism in Thessaly, Macedonia and Epirus; not all did however as they didnt feel Greek.

Today almost 100% of Vlachs in Greece and many in Albania describe themselves as Greeks and most of them have Greek ancestry. The Vlachs who didnt identify as Greeks left for Romania either before or after WW2.

Voulgaroktone,most of the vlachs rose up for Hellenism.Only a small fraction of the vlachs,especially those around Veroia,left for Romania.
I don't know if most of the vlachs have Greek ancestry(unless you mean about mixed marriages etc.),but i know that all of them now in Greece and in Albania are patriotic Greeks.In Albania the vlachs identified and still identify as Greeks because of the fact that they were christians unlike the turkalbanians.
btw Voulgaroktone i was answering to Ervald , to what he wrote

[Ervald]

The vlachs,whatever their origin, identify as Greeks whether they are in Greece or in Albania.They fought against the [derogatory comment deleted] side by side with the rest of the Greeks,should i remind you of the burning of the largest vlach city in Albania,Moscopolis,by muslim albanians?
You should respect the self determination of all the people in your country.If the vlachs in albania want to be Greeks you SHOULD let them be part of the Greek minority.

First you should resepct one thing

Voskopoja (moschopolis) was/is located in Albania, and in those times was a rich town vlachic in majority. (btw I have lived there for 3 years of my childhood)
Now Why we burnt the town down, has nothing to do with the greeks. They were vllachs! and the vllachs of Albania have nothing to do with the vllachs of greece, they dont speak greek, nor have they been there. Only their religion makes them greek?!

they have never fought for anyone..the vllachs in albania were/are shepperds and thats all, they were a nomadic people so they never fought with anyone

With your sayings, anyone can be greek as long as he embrace greek history , values and all that, he is a greek man.
But I dont see it that way, I see it racially.

[Euklid]

RACIALLY!!!!!!!!

And who is racially pure?

Then what is an American? What is a British?

Except for a couple of tribes that got stuck in the mountains like tha Kallsh tribe, a couple of Maniot families in Sparta, a couple of Albanian families in Albania, that used to be pure until the 19th century, today we can easily say, that not even ONE person in the planet is a completely raccially pure individual from one ethnicity and one ethnicity only.

IF you meet a nice Greek woman in zakynthos and have children? Are they gonna be racially pure? They are gonna be half-breeds, you will try to teach them that they are Albs, your wife will try to teach tyhem that their are Greeks, and when they grow up they will make their own choice.

[Flipper]

But I dont see it that way, I see it racially.

If you think you are 100% Illyrian nowdays then you've lost it. There is no pure race from the beginning of time. That is what athropology says. We all come from the same place and because of our isolations/migrations we changed in certain ways. Believe it or not, your first ancestors started walking in Kenya.

It is not your race that make you who you are. It is you and only you that allow yourself to become a certain person. Some are lucky to have more opportunities, but in the end, some people create societies. These societies advance and do the job for their predecessors that can later focus on other things to advance and it goes on and on. You can choose to make yourself better or just fall like babylon.

[Ervald]

Euklid - Flipper:

Saying that we came from Kenya doesnt mean we were black people! there werent any black or chinese or white people back then but still different kind of bad looking human beings walking in what is now africa.
they were the root, now the whites, the blacks, the chinese etc are the branches!


I dont know if the british people kept their puriness im sure they did not like most of the countries. But I can trace back my roots and, all my ancestors come from Albania, streching from central to the south for many centuries.
Now ofcourse not all the nation is pure, thats imposible. Also the illyrians werent all one tribe, the illyrians were made of more than 10 tribes. and some of them were different from each other, costumes etc, depending their neighbours.

And if you think race doesnt play any role, then if we all be like Britain for example, marrying all kind of nationalites from India or pakistan, would you like modern greece being populated by those kids?
I'm not a racist but some things are forbidden first by nature and second by the pride of your own stock and blood

[Tsontos]

what is an albanian? just another mixed balkan race. Are you telling me parts of your population have not been heavily Turkified? more so than other regions under Ottoman rule because you were of the same faith and this made things easier. Same goes for Bosnia which became heavily Turkified because of the religion. On top of that Albania has a strong Slav influence as well, much like Greece. And on top of that there was a large amount of mixing between Greece and albania since the middle ages.

I think you are a racist and I think you have no idea of what genetics is. First of all Albanians and Greeks are not races, we are ethnicities. We share to a certain extent, genetic links to our forfathers, while at the same time never having a pure connection, whatever that means.

[Flipper]

@ Voulagrokronos: Actually Turkey has been more Balcanized through Genitsari. Balcans was not a bed where all were pumping each other. How turks are presented to us is another question.

@ Ervald: Rules that forbid are made. It is all in your mind, and your mind creates cultures and rules. And for your info I've had girlfriends from every part of earth that some may see as a forbidded thing. These things are not new to me.

One of my parents works as a doctor. Nature does not forbid you anything. I know very well what genetics is and how our body is built. As for our first ancestors, they were more like apes than how we look now. And yes, the colours were created later. We're not talking about couple of thousand years. Multiply that by 100...

Now, think again...Are jews an ethnicity based on race or religion?

[Tsontos]

true flip, Turkey is probably the most mixed Balkan nation. What Im saying about Albania and Bosnia/ Sanjak is that they have more Turkish influence than anywhere else because once a population was muslim it was much easier for the Turks to mix and establish 'loyal' muslim strongholds. Greeks on the other hand have minimal Turkish influence genetically yet have a high Albanian and Bulgarian influence

[Ervald]

true flip, Turkey is probably the most mixed Balkan nation. What Im saying about Albania and Bosnia/ Sanjak is that they have more Turkish influence than anywhere else because once a population was muslim it was much easier for the Turks to mix and establish 'loyal' muslim strongholds. Greeks on the other hand have minimal Turkish influence genetically yet have a high Albanian and Bulgarian influence

Kosovar albanians never mixed with the turks.. and u can even notice that by looks and racially.

Here lighten up.

Albania and the Dinaric Race by Carleton Coon (http://www.snpa.nordish.net/chapter-XII13.htm)

[Ervald]

and one more comment Vulgaroktone:

The Ancient albanian law Kanun, says..marriage only between your race (meaning your people). most of the Albanians still follow that part of the law and much more, for example vendettas etc.

To mix in those times was something not acceptable and dishonour

The Kanun or formally the Kanuni i Lekë Dukagjinit (English: The Code of Lekë Dukagjini)[1] is a set of laws developed by Lekë Dukagjini and used mostly in northern Albania and Kosovo from the 15th century until the 20th century and revived recently after the fall of the communist regime in the early 1990s.

This set of laws was a customary one, passed down through the generations, and not codified and written down until the 19th century by Shtjefën Gjeçov. Although Kanuni is attributed to the Albanian prince Lekë Dukagjini, the rules evolved over time as a way to bring laws and rule to these lands. The code was divided into several sections: Church, Family, Marriage, House, Livestock and Property, Work, Transfer of Property, Spoken Word, Honor, Damages, Law Regarding Crimes, Judicial Law, and Exemptions and Exceptions.

Kanuni survived largely unchanged through the mass conversion of most Albanians to Islam in the 17th century. According to Japanese researcher Kazuhiko Yamamoto, "the ethical structure of the Kanun is based on pagan culture."[2]
Organization of the code: 12 books and nearly 1300 articles

-1 Church;
The Church
Cemeteries
Property of the Church
The Priest
Church workers
-2 Family;
the family make-up
-3 Marriage;
Engagement
Wedding
the Kanun of the groom
in-laws
separation
inheritance
-4 House, Livestock and Property;
the house and its surroundings
livestock
property
the boundary
-5 Work;
work
hunting
commerce
-6 Transfer of Property;
borrowing
gifts
-7 Spoken Word;
-8 Honor;
individual honor
social honor
'blood' and gender; brotherhood and godparents
-9 Damages;
-10 Law Regarding Crimes
criminals
stealing
murder (discussion of sanctioning of blood feuds)
-11 The kanun of the elderly
-12 Exemptions and Exceptions
types of exceptions
death

[Orphic_Hymn]

Ervald, next time do us a favor and simply present the links instead of spamming the place with copy/pastes from wiki and snpa.nordish.net.
Thanks.

The Ancient albanian law Kanun, says..marriage only between your race (meaning your people). most of the Albanians still follow that part of the law and much more, for example vendettas etc.

Most might still do this but as we know in the past this was not always followed. A fine example of not following this 'law' are the Mirdites, who used to abduct and marry Turkish girls after they had baptized them first. (see Catholic Encyclopedia entry "Albania")

[Flipper]

The Ancient albanian law Kanun, says..marriage only between your race (meaning your people). most of the Albanians still follow that part of the law and much more, for example vendettas etc.


Paparies me alla logia. Ama sou katsei kamoia latina alla J-Lo na se dw pio Kanun tha akolouthiseis. :lol: