Fallacies & Facts on FYROM's Claims and Propaganda

[Ptolemy]

FYROM Claim:

Hellenization of Aegean Macedonia after partition in 1913 Before Macedonia was partitioned it had all its cities written in cyrillic. Schools were teaching in cryillic and people in that region spoke cyrillic. In 1913 Aegean Macedonia was "liberated" (the correct term is partitioned) to Greece.

Fact:
The propagandists of FYROM simply ignore the fact that Nobody has invaded Macedonia in 1913 but instead during the first Balkan war, the Balkan coalition between Bulgaria, Serbia, Greece and Montenegro INVADED OTTOMAN EMPIRE, for the liberation of the Bulgarians, Greek and Serbs who lived there. The movement for independent Macedonia, which started far earlier (at the end of the 19th century) had an UNDISPUTED BULGARIAN CHARACTER and this fact is described by any contemporary (of the time) observer, historian, diplomat, nomatter what the skopjan propagandists claim. There is no need to rewrite history - it's well described in so many books. There are many examples of 1 nation living in 2 different states. Furthermore, Macedonia had a rather mixed population at that time because of which the idea for independent Macedonia was more attractive for the local population than the idea for union with Bulgaria. The fact that the uprising in 1903 was a Bulgarian one and the fact that IMRO was an organization founded by BULGARIANS are descibed in all books (from that time and even in all books pre-1945).


In addition, any claim from FYROM propagandists that this was an act of imperialism is downright silly, especially in light of the fact that the Christian populations of Macedonia and of the rest of the Balkans consisted exactly of Greeks, Serbs and Bulgarians and no "Macedonians" as previously stated, because no distinct Macedonian nation had ever existed until its artificial creation by the Yugoslav communist regime at the end of World War
II.

I must stress the point that no Skopjan genius has ever dared address: That all, and I repeat ALL, population statistics of the last years of Ottoman rule for the vilayets of Macedonia mention Greeks, Turks, Bulgarians, Serbians, Jews, gypsies - but not a single "Macedonian". Until 1914, the concepts of "Macedonia" as a Slav state and of "The Macedonian race" as a separate nationality were absolutely unrecognised. Neither the Treaty of Berlin, nor the Treaty of San Stefano make any reference to such concepts. There are no statistics prior to WWII ever mention any "Macedonians" as a distinct nation!!!!

For the word "Macedonian" is a geographical and not an ethnic attribute. It has been used to denote a Greek from Macedonia (as in the "Macedonian dynasty" of Byzantium) or, later, also a Bulgarian from Macedonia. It is the part of the Skopje population that is ethnically Bulgarian and has been heavily brainwashed by the Yugoslav communist regime (even to the point of trying to artificially modify the language, but even now it is only a Bulgarian dialect), with only partial success, to think of itself as istinctly "Macedonian" - for the purpose of usurping the Greek Macedonian historical heritage and laying territorial claims on Greece as well as for inhibiting any Bulgarian effort to lay claim on FYROM's territory.

During the years 1922-1925 the following population changes occurred in Greek Macedonia:


- in conformity with the Greek-Turkish Treaty of Lausanne (1923), the Muslims were moved to Turkey.
- in conformity with the Treaty of Neuilly (1919), 53,000 Bulgarians from Greek Macedonia were resettled in Bulgaria.

To these figures one should add 29,000 Bulgarians who had fled to Bulgaria during the war. The Greek refugees from Turkey and Bulgaria settled in Macedonia on lands left vacant by the Muslims and Bulgarians.
The League of Nations' figures given above are authoritative since the population re-settlements were carried out under its aegis and with the supervision and responsibility of the International Committee.


The League of Nations (Greek Refugee Settlement - 1926) vested with its authority the following count for Greek Macedonia:
1912 1926


Greeks 513,000 1,341,000
Muslims 475,000 2,000
Bulgarians 119,000 77,000
Various 98,000 91,000

[Ptolemy]

FYROM Claim:

Greek was the international language (Linqua Franca) of Ancient times thus it was adopted from Philip and Alexander like Latin and English much later.While Alexander the Great spoke Macedonian to his comrades and Macedonian brothers he spoke Greek to Asians, Greek people and the rest of the world

Fact: Greek was not the "lingua franca" during the reign of Philip II and Alexander III. In fact, it became so later because of the conquests of Alexander and the many colonies he founded that dispersed the Greek culture and language around the world of Eastern Mediterranean. During the time of Philip and the beginning of the conquests of Alexander, if there was a lingua franca, that was Persian, not Greek. In fact, after Alexander, despite the wide adoption of Greek, native languages survived and thrived and Hellenistic kingdoms erected multiple multilingual inscriptions.

To demonstrate it clearly...

Prior to Philip and Alexander,

Did Illyrians speak Greek??? NO

Did Paeonians speak Greek? NO

Did Persians speak Greek? NO

Did Egyptians speak Greek? NO

Did the bulk of Thracians speak Greek? NO

Did the Carthaginians speak Greek? NO

Did the Romans speak Greek? NO

Did Dardanians speak Greek? NO

Did Indians speak Greek? NO

Did Macedonians speak Greek? YES


From all the multilingual inscriptions found, none contained the "phantom Macedonian language". Extennsive escavations in Macedonia in hundreds of sites, private cemeteries, religious temples have not uncovered any other language than Greek and in fact, they established the fact that the Macedonian dialect was a North-West Greek dialect.

[pankration]

Simple and to the point. Well done.

[Ptolemy]

FYROM Claim:

On Macedonian coins (including of Alexander I and Alexander II) there is no S at the end, but rather ALEXANDROU, therefore the name ALEXANDROS doesnt exist and its a greek invention."

Fact: We have here another distortion of history from the propagandists of FYROM.

Nominative: ALEXANDROS
Genitive : ALEXANDROU
Dative: ALEXANDRO
Accusative: ALEXANDRO
Vocative: ALEXANDRE

Its clear it was used in the coins, Genitive form like all Greek coins and the following example (ie ALEXANDROU) as ancient used to say "ALEXANDROU VASILEOS", and the inscription means, "(coin) of the King ALexandros"




Same with this coin of Amyntas III (392-370BC) having the genitive form "AMYNTA" of the nominative "AMYNTAS"




However in ancient coins the names were not always depicted as a whole. The ending was many times omitted either because it was self-evident or because there was not enough space.

Some more ancient Macedonian coins:



FILIPPOU - Genitive of FILIPPOS, meaning (coin of the king Philip)

Skopjan propagandists better visit http://ancient-coin-forum.com/Greek/Greek_Coins.htm

[Euklid]

This quote is circulated by the Skopjians in various blogs and fora, in their attempt to justify the presence of a "Macedonian" ethnicity in the 17-18th ACE:



This is taken from the Book Austria: Vienna, Prague, Hungary, Bohemia, and the Danube; Galicia, Styria, Moravia, Bukovina, and the Military Frontier by Johann Georg Kohl published in 1844 in the page 269.

In the page that i have linked(page 225-226..scroll upwards for 225) the author gives us information as to what he means by "Macedonians" and we read:

The opinion entertained here in their cunning and roguery is pretty well expressed by the common saying that it will take four Jews and five gipsies to make one Rascian. In this condemnation are included the modern Greeks and Macedonians; and there is probably some truth in the notion, for the very same opinion of them is entertained by the people in Odessa and in other places where I have heard them spoken of and it, is pretty much in the same estimate that they[Greeks and Greek Macedonians] were held formerly by the Venetians and Genoese with whom they were engaged in mercantile relations; nay even the Romans had the proverbial expression "Graeco fides, nulla fides". One must not however suffer one's opinion to be influenced too much by sayings of this kind for if we visit and observe these people[ONE PEOPLE] in their homes we find at least as much to excite interest and sympathy as to awaken contempt or dislike.

Brackets are mine


The author makes it quite clear that he is reffereing to the same people when he writes "modern Greeks and Macedonians", for there is "one opinion of them", "they..were held by the Venetians", "if one observes these people"

Where:

Macedonians = Greeks, and Greeks = Macedonians.

[Truth Bearer]

Bravo Euklid well done mate another one of "their" theories gets sunk!!

[Euklid]

New York Times April 2, 1902 Article Miss Stone's Captors Nearly All Bulgarians, report:



May 17, 1903, the New York Times Article: In Foreign Lands:

[Xiotis]

One of the most ignorant FYROMian theories floating around, and perpetuated by their self declared 'scholars' in their diaspora, is the notion that the Greek state was manufactured by foreign powers and that Greece's independence movement was not an indigenous grass roots phenomenon driven by Greeks themselves.

This theory is constantly promoted by many FYROM nationalists including the comical self styled "history expert" Risto Stefov who makes the following claims:

[I wont post links to these articles, anyone interested in seeing the whole article can simply google the phrases]





Well, perhaps the genius Stefov and his minions, who I have no doubt constantly scour these forums, can explain the following letter.

This letter was written in 1790 by "Deputies of the Greek Islands" to the Empress of Russia asking for assistance to free Greece from the Turks. In return they offered the Greek throne to her Grandson Constantine. They were conscious of an ancient Greek heritage and they were conscious of the Greek nation - concepts that Stefov and his uneducated minions claim were artificially manufactured post 19th century! Above all this letter destroys the FYROMian position that Greece was artificially manufactured since it clearly illustrates one example of a grass roots movement to free Greece .

Also notice that in this example Greeks were asking for help from the Russians. Stefov and his uneducated minions claim that Greece was artificially created to block the same Russians from the Mediterranean!

FOOLS!!

[chicagogeorge]

a site full of misquotes and propaganda.

First this propagandist makes it look as if Wilcken did not support the idea that Macedonians were Greeks. He purposefully leaves out an important passage. Please look.




And in this passage, our propagandist tries to make his flock believe that Brailsford believed that a distinct "Macedonian" group existed. Look at the quote, then look at more in-depth passages from Braislford. Don't forget to look at the ethnographic map which pretty much puts the matter to rest in terms of his convictions. NO MACEDONIAN GROUP IS LISTED

[MAKEDONELLHNAS]

Originally Posted by chicagogeorge

a site full of misquotes and propaganda.

First this propagandist makes it look as if Wilcken did not support the idea that Macedonians were Greeks. He purposefully leaves out an important passage. Please look.




And in this passage, our propagandist tries to make his flock believe that Brailsford believed that a distinct "Macedonian" group existed. Look at the quote, then look at more in-depth passages from Braislford. Don't forget to look at the ethnographic map which pretty much puts the matter to rest in terms of his convictions. NO MACEDONIAN GROUP IS LISTED

George you are something else bro, ti na po...