Propaganda and falsification of history from macedonia.org Exposed!!

[Ptolemy]

Propaganda and falsification of history from historyofmacedonia.org

http://www.historyofmacedonia.org/An...tEvidence.html

Fyrom claim :

The ancient Greek, Roman, and Jewish historians, geographers, and orators, speak of the Macedonians as distinct nation, separate from their Greek, Thracian, and Illyrian neighbors. They ARE CLEAR THAT MACEDONIAN WAS NEVER PART OF GREECE

Fact: We witness a blatant falsification of history from the propagandists of FYROM.

A small collection of ancient historians and geographers refuting the above claim and making clear Macedonia was a part of Greece and not a distinct nation.

"There remain of Europe, first, Macedonia and the parts of Thrace that are contiguous to it and extend as far as Byzantium; secondly, Greece; and thirdly, the islands that are close by. MACEDONIA, OF COURSE IS A PART OF GREECE, yet now, since I am following the nature and shape of the places geographically, I have decided to classify it apart from the rest of Greece and to join it with that part of Thrace which borders on it and extends as far as the mouth of the Euxine and the Propontis. Then, a little further on, Strabo mentions Cypsela and the Hebrus River, and also describes a sort of parallelogram in which the whole of Macedonia lies."

(Strabo, Geography, book 7, Fragm, 9)

"He sent to Athens three hundred Persian panoplies to be set up to Athena in the acropolis; he ordered this inscription to be attached: Alexander son of Philip and the Hellenes, except the Lacedaemonians, set up these spoils from the barbarians dwelling in Asia",

(Arrian I, 16, 7)



"It is your privilege, as one who has been blessed with untrammeled freedom, to consider all Hellas your fatherland, as did the founder of your race."

(Isokratis, To Philip 127)


"They say that these were the tribes collected by Amphiktyon himself in the Hellenic Assembly: ... the Macedonians joined and the entire Phocian race ... In my day there were thirty members: six each from Nikopolis, Macedonia and Thessaly ... "

(Pausanias Phokis VIII, 2 & 4)



FYROM claim :

The assertion of those modern historians that propagate that the Macedonians "were Greeks" which have "united" Greece, is absurd and is completely UNSUPORTED BY THE WORDS OF THE ANCIENTS who clearly considered Greece subjected by the Macedonian foreigners

Fact: What is absurb is the deliberate falsification of history from the propagandists of FYROM. Ancient historians and Alexander the Great himself verify the fact that Macedonians were Greeks and united Greece.


"Your ancestors invaded Macedonia and the rest of Hellas and did us great harm, though we had done them no prior injury;... I have been appointed hegemon of the Greeks... "

(Arrian, Anabasis of Alexander II, 14, 4)


“....at the congress of the Lakedaimonian allies and the rest of the Hellenes, in which Amyntas, the father of Philip, being entitled to a seat,
was represented by a delegate whose vote was absolutely under his control, he joined the rest of the Hellenes in voting..."

(Aeschines, On the Embassy 32)

"Such was the end of Philip (II, king of Macedonia) ...He had ruled 24 years. He is known to fame as one who with but the slenderest resources to support his claim to a throne won for himself the greatest empire AMONG THE HELLENES, while the growth of his position was not due so much to his prowess in arms as to his adroitness and cordiality in diplomacy."

(Diodoros of Sicily 16.95.1-2)

---------------------------------------------------


FYROM claim:

The ancient Greeks did not regard the Macedonians as Greeks, nor the Macedonians regarded themselves to be Greek. They were proud of their Macedonian nationality and way of life, and looked down upon the Greeks and with contempt.

Fact: Another forgery attempted by the propagandists of FYROM to distort history.

Alexander the Great himself refutes the allegations of the pseudo-historians of FYROM

" There are Greek troops, to be sure, in Persian service -- but how different is theirs cause from ours ! They will be fighting for pay--- and not much of it at that; we on the contrary shall fight for Greece, and our hearts will be in it . As for our foreign troops ---Thracians, Paeonians, Illyrians, Agrianes --- they are the best and stoutest soldiers of Europe, and they will find as their opponents the slackest and softest of the tribes of Asia."

Arrian - The Campaigns of Alexander. “Alexander talking to the troops before the battle. “ Book 2-7

"Argos is the land of your fathers, and is entitled to as much consideration at your hands as are your own ancestors; "

-Isocrates, To Phillip II of Macedon

FYROM claim:

Alexander's Macedonian Army was not a "Greek army" as some modern writers have erroneously claimed, nor the Macedonian conquest of Asia was a "Greek conquest". The fact is that not one ancient writer has called the Macedonian empire "Greek" or the Macedonian army and conquest "Greek", but specifically Macedonian.

FACT: On the contrary of FYROM’s historians erroneously claims, Alexander the Great and ancient historians testified more than once that Macedonians were Greeks and “fought for Greece” as Alexander himself said . (See the above speech of Alexander to this troops)

Furthermore, the fact Macedonian soldiers were Greeks its clear to everyone except the propagandists of FYROM when Alexander sent to Athens three hundred Persian panoplies to be set up to Athena in the acropolis and he ordered this inscription to be attached:

“Alexander son of Philip and the Hellenes, except the Lacedaemonians, set up these spoils from the barbarians dwelling in Asia"


FYROM Claim :

When Rome clashed with Macedonia, the Macedonians were ordered by the Romans to evacuate from the whole of Greece and withdraw to Macedonia. They were hated by the Greeks ever since Philip II defeated the Greeks at Chaeronea in 338 BC and brought Greece to its kneel, and the Greeks fought fiercely, first on the side of the Persians and later on the side of the Romans to expel the Macedonians from their country. Too late would they realize that the Macedonian occupation would only be replaced by the Roman. In between the Greeks fought many unsuccessful wars against the Macedonians to drive them out of Greece, among which the Lamian War is the most famous. It should be noted that the Lamian War was triggered by the death of Alexander the Great, which encouraged the Greeks to rebel.

FACT: Polyvius in his 38th book manages to refute for one more time the propaganda of FYROM and makes clear that Macedonia is a part of the whole of Hellas.

Polybios 38.1-3.8

“The 38th book contains the completion of the disaster of the Hellenes. For though both the whole of Hellas and her several parts had often met with mischance, yet to none of her former defeats can we more fittingly apply, the name of disaster with all it signifies than to the events of my own time. ...In the time I am speaking of a common misfortune befell the Peloponnesians, the Boiotians, the Fokians, the [Eub]oians, the Lokrians, some of the cities on the Ionian Gulf, and finally the Macedonians."

It is demonstratable the Hellenes who had the 'common disaster' are listed as:
"the Peloponnesians,
the Boiotians,
the Fokians,
the [Eub]oians,
the Lokrians,
some of the cities on the Ionian Gulf,
and finally the Macedonians"

The lies of pseudo-historians also can easily exposed by strabo.

"The Corinthians, when they were subject to Philip, not only sided with him in his quarrel with the Romans, but individually behaved so contemptuously towards the Romans that certain persons ventured to pour down filth upon the Roman ambassadors when passing by their house. For this and other offences, however, they soon paid the penalty, for a considerable army was sent thither, and the city itself was razed to the ground by Leucius Mummius;"

(Strabo, VI, 23)

In addition, it is evident the misinformation pushed by the pseudohistorians since it is known Greeks were fighting eachother as back as their first appearance. A classic example is the fact that some Greeks sided with the Persians during their invasion to Greece and a even better is that during Peloponessian war in some occasions among the two opposing forces, Greeks sided with the Persians in order to crush their rival Greeks. In fact the slogan used by Spartans during Peloponessian war was “the liberation of Greece” from Athens.


Conclusion:

The purpose of this page is to inform and make readers aware of the intentional misleading and falsification of history made by FYROM sources and their pseudo-historians. All the aboves facts are deliberately missing from websites of FYROM, with the intention of confusing readers interested in ancient Macedonia and pop up their completely unfounded claims over ancient Macedonia history and ancient Greek history which Macedonia was always a bright part. The propagandists of FYROM seem to believe that by misleading the world into the false and refuted claim that “Macedonians were not Greeks” will have the chance to claim the ancient Macedonian history as theirs. In other words, according to them and under the non-rational thinking they are into, if they manage somehow to disprove that a car’s colour is white this would mean automatically that the car’s colour is red. Unfortunately for them and their deceitful aims, ancient historians and geographers, along with historic personas with first from all Alexander the Great made clear the fact that Macedonians were Greeks.

[admin]

Excellent! if only they did their research.... :thumbs:

[nsminc]

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historicalmacedonia.net
historicalmacedonia.org
historyofmacedonia.net
macedonianbrotherhood.com
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macedoniandiaspora.com
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macedonianheritage.net
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makedonja.net
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mymacedonia.org
skopje.eu.com
truemacedonia.net
truemacedonia.org
unitedmacedonia.net
unitedmacedonia.org

[Orphic_Hymn]

http://www.historyofmacedonia.org/Co...ia/donski.html

FYROMian claim :

Today's Macedonians anthropologically differ from the ancient Slavs. It is well known that the Byzantine historian Procopius (who was their contemporary and had personally came upon them) clearly described the ancient Slavs as tall people and having a strong stature. Procopius also wrote that they were all and one blond and that there weren't any with a different colour of the hair. It is obvious that the majority of the Macedonians today have different anthropological features.

The REAL text says :

Indeed, some of them do not wear even a shirt or a cloak, but gathering their trews up as far as to their private parts they enter into battle with their opponents. And both the two peoples have also the same language, an utterly barbarous tongue. Nay further, they do not differ at all from one another in appearance. For they are all exceptionally tall and stalwart men, while their bodies and hair are neither very fair or blond, nor indeed do they incline entirely to the dark type, but they are all slightly ruddy in color.

Source:
An Introduction to Slavic Philology
Alexander M. Schenker
Yale University Press New Haven and London
Page 30

FYROMian claim

There are also clear Byzantine documents according to which in the VIII century Tzar Justinian II moved out a large number of Slavs from Macedonia, but this information was not discussed in Macedonian historiography.

TZAR !!!!
Its obvious that our Northern friends can't avoid using Bulgarian terms even when attempting to write in english.

Information not discussed they say. Well obviously this is the belief of self-proclaimed historians like our friend here. The demographic measures enforced originally by Justinian II the Rinomitos called "epi tas Sklavinias" are well recorded by several authorities of Byzantine history.
Now while our friend suggests that the Slavic population were dealt with in order to support his non-existant relation to the Makedones by assimilation. What the self-proclaimed historian, although allegedly quotes Procopius, fails to note, is the significant information provided in his texts:

In "The Bulgars in the Balkans and the Occupation of Corinth in the Seventh
Century" by Kenneth M. Setton Speculum, 25, 4, 1950) page 506 we read:

Procopius, writing his Secret History about this time, gives us a depressing, even if much exaggerated, summary of conditions in the Balkans: 'Illyricum and Thrace, from the Ionian Sea to the suburbs of Byzantium, were overrun almost every year since Justinian's accession to the throne by Huns, Sclavenes, and Antae, who dealt atrociously with the inhabitants. In every invasion I suppose that about 200,000 Roman subjects were killed or enslaved; the whole land became a sort of Scythian deserts but the invasions of the Balkans were just beginning:

FYROMian claim

It should be noted that the Slavs were not "people from the other side of the Carpathians" (as we were thought until recently), but descendants of the Veneti, ancient people with grand culture. Veneti were even referenced by Homer, and were later also referenced by Herodotus as people from the Balkans. This fact has been long recognized by the world science and from recently has been included in the history textbooks in Republic of Macedonia.

Now we now what is being fed to FYROMian youth.

There is NO serious historian that connects the Enetoi to Slavs EXCEPT only as usual, a handfull of nationalistic propagandists, that tend to invent connections that aren't there... The 'Wends' (Venedes) that lived on the Vistula (Poland) have not been proven to be linked to the Veneti found in Italy.
The ONLY tribe mentioned by Herodotus that has been suggested (but not proven) to relate to the Slavs are the Neuri.. It is actually Herodotus' account seen in 4.105 :

for the Scythians, and the Greeks settled in Scythia, say that once a year every one of the Neuri becomes a wolf for a few days and changes back again to his former shape.

that has made historians/researcher believe that this is the origin of the Slavic belief in warewolves.
But then again, our friend forgets that Herodotus clearly mentions the area the Neuri populated :

Herodotus Histories 4.17.1-2

North of the port of the Borysthenites, which lies midway along the coast of Scythia, the first inhabitants are the Callippidae, who are Scythian Greeks; and beyond them another tribe called Alazones; these and the Callippidae, though in other ways they live like the Scythians, plant and eat grain, onions, garlic, lentils, and millet.
[2] Above the Alazones live Scythian farmers, who plant grain not to eat but to sell; north of these, the Neuri; north of the Neuri, the land is uninhabited so far as we know.

---

But for the sake of argument, even if we were to accept the historic fallacy stated about Homer's record, they have the following problem..

Homer places the Enetoi in Anatolia as clearly seen in :

Iliad 2.852-4:

"And the Paphlagonians did Pylaemenes of the shaggy heart lead from the land of the Eneti, whence is the race of wild she-mules. These were they that held Cytorus and dwelt about Sesamon, and had their famed dwellings around the river Parthenius"

Just in case all these names trouble our friends..

Cytorus is situated in Mysia as is Parthenius (see Xenophon Anabasis 7.8.8 and Herodotus 2.104)

These Eneti are connected to the tribes that accompanied Antenor to Italy after the end of the Troyan war.. Obviously the reason why Herodotus situates them on the Adriatic, centuries later.. BUT
Proof that the possibility of any connection to the Slavic tribe named Veneti is non-existant...

FYROMian claim

even though it has been scientifically proven that mosquitoes carry the malaria disease only in the early 20th century!

Actually, Sir Ronald Ross first discovered this in 20 August 1897 and had fully proved his thesis by July 1898. So actually, its the late 19th century and not the early 20th.


FYROMian claim

Consideration of the men's waistband from the folk apparel as a symbol of manhood is another custom that remained from the ancient Macedonians (this was recorded by Aristotle and the same custom was recorded in Macedonia in the 19th century).

While a source would be nice, I suppose that the Bulgarians :





Romanians:




Kosovarians :




among others that have a 'waistband' included in their traditional costumes can also claim descendance from the Makedones.

We have the custom of breaking a loaf of bread during the marriage ceremonies that has also remained from the ancient Macedonians.

Unfortunately for our friend, bread is used worldwide in traditional marriages and under no circumstance can this be considered valid proof.

For example :

In Poland sharing bread, salt and wine is considered an old Polish tradition. The bread symbolizes hope that the couple will never go hungry, the salt symbolizes that life will have its difficulties, and the wine is a blessing for health and happiness.

In Russia the bride and groom receive bread and salt, which is believed to symbolize health, prosperity and long life.

In Bulgaria, the groom’s mother holds a loaf bread over her head and invites the couple to each pull one end of it; whichever one gets the bigger piece will have the biggest role in the new family.

In Belarus, the wedding pie is a bread, symbolizing abundance, luck and a rich and prosperous life.

In Ukraine, a traditional bread called Korovai, decorated with symbols which represent the everlasting union of the couple getting married.

In Lithuania, the couple drink wine and eat salt and bread upon entering the reception hall – symbols of joy, tears, and work, the three elements of a life together.

In Jewish weddings, the wedding meal begins with blessings over wine and bread, symbols of joy and security.

Then again, all one has to do is read John 6:35 "And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life...." to understand why we see this common tradition so widespread.

[pankration]

Ptolemy and Orphic Hymn are putting in heroic efforts in countering these false assertions by FYROM propagandists and I wholeheartedly commend them. I do feel sad however that these and other members of this forum have to spend so much time arguing with morons. It seems that every time one of their nutty theories is disproved they come up with an even more outrageous statement and we have to start all over again. On the intellectual battlefield these skops are armed with sticks compared to the cannons of people like Ptolemy and Orphic Hymn and others like PhiliptheUniter, Akritas etc. But the fight must continue.

[Ptolemy]

From the same Propagandistic site we can find:


MODERN SOURCES

1) John Pentland Mahaffy

FYROM REPLY: This quote does not show anywhere that the Macedonians were Greek. We know that Alexander accepted and spread the standard koine Greek as a spoken language for his multi-ethnic empire, the only international language on which the whole Mediterranean world had already communicated even prior to the conquest of the Macedonians (just like English is international language today). Alexander was smart enough to keep this international Greek language for the Persians, Egyptians, Jews and all the nations of his empire to communicate. Forcing all those people to learn now a new foreign Macedonian language would have only provoked an additional hatred and multi-ethnic resistance for the Macedonian occupation of Asia, Egypt, and Greece, which the Macedonians obviously wanted to avoid. Unlike the Roman Empire, there was no single powerful centralized Macedonian Empire, but three main Macedonian kingdoms (Macedonia, Asia, Egypt) which were fragile and in conflict occasionally among each other, and the Macedonians needed such language standardization to help them maintain their power. That of course, does not mean that although the Macedonians, Persians, Egyptians, Jews, now communicated in Greek, that they all turned into Greeks, just like the African nations did not turn into French and English, just because of their usage of those two languages to communicate among themselves.

In the beginning we can witness again the fallacious claim, tending to mislead readers into believing Greek language was the international language in the "whole Mediterranean world" prior to Alexander's conquests.

Lets get it straight once more.

Fact: Greek was *not* the "lingua franca" in the whole mediterranean world prior to Alexander's conquests. In fact, it became so, because exactly of Alexander's conquests and the number of colonies he founded that dispersed the Greek culture and language around the world of Eastern Mediterranean. During the time of Philip and the beginning of the conquests of Alexander, if we could say there was a lingua franca, that was Persian, not Greek. In fact, after Alexander, despite the wide adoption of Greek, native languages survived and thrived and Hellenistic kingdoms erected multiple multilingual inscriptions.

To demonstrate it clearly...

Prior to Alexander's conquests,

Did Illyrians speak Greek??? NO

Did Paeonians speak Greek? NO

Did Persians speak Greek? NO

Did Egyptians speak Greek? NO

Did the bulk of Thracians speak Greek? NO

Did the Carthaginians speak Greek? NO

Did the Romans speak Greek? NO

Did Dardanians speak Greek? NO

Did Indians speak Greek? NO

Did Macedonians speak Greek? YES

Since the premise of the argument is entirely wrong, so it is its conclusion. Following the erroneous logic of the propagadists, we should also expect Persians to spread Greek language and Culture in every place they conquered but especially Romans who found already the Greek language dominating in the East, thanks to Alexander, to spread Greek in the most remote corner of their empire. Both they didnt. For the simple reason, they werent Greeks. Alexander spread Greek language and Greek culture because he was himself Greek and so were Macedonians.

What is for certain however, is that Alexander spoke Macedonian with his own Macedonian troops and used Greek in addressing the Asians and Greeks. After all, the Macedonians were his kinsmen (precisely the way he calls them), not the Greeks. The ancient sources specifically refer to Macedonian as a language and not as a dialect of Greek, and Alexander himself specifically calls the Macedonian language - "our native language". During the trial of Philotas, Alexander himself clearly distinguishes his native Macedonian language from the Greek language which was used at the Macedonian court as well as a second language in diplomacy, a fact we find in the Philotas trial (Q. Curtius Rufus).

What is for certain, is that the deliberate attempts of propagandists to mislead readers will never stop. Spartan troops spoke the Doric dialect with eachother (Thuc. 3-112), a dialect which Atheneans couldnt fully copy with. This doesnt mean Spartans are not Greeks or Doric is not a Greek dialect. Ancient sources doesnt speak about Macedonian as a language and in fact in Philotas affair it becomes even clearer Macedonian is a Greek dialect, since Philotas explicitely states that using the Koine would make his speech "easier to understand", indicating that Macedonian dialect was not incomprehensible to the non-Macedonians, but a bit more difficult to understand. In fact, the whole incident shows the Macedonian dialect was not that different from the Koine and could be understood eventhough it had some difficulty by other Greeks. This also explains the quick disappearance of the Macedonian dialect and the quick adoption of the Koine from Macedonians.

The conclusion is clear - that the Macedonian kings admired a foreign culture (Greek in this case) does not prove they were Greek. Similarly, the Russian czars admired the French culture and French was even spoken on the Russian court. The African nations also use international English language to communicate among themselves. That of course does not prove that the Russian czars were French, nor that the Africans were English. Therefore, the above quote from the Greek internet page can not be used as a ‘proof’ that the Macedonians were Greek. See the complete evidence on the ethnicity of the ancient Macedonians.

The conclusion is indeed clear but unlike the mistaken - as we already proved- claims of the well-known propagandists from FYROM, the available evidence, literary and archaeological, make us receivers of the same message. Alexander the Great never missed a chance to verify his pride for his Greek ancestry.He considered himself as a Greek and so did Macedonians. Macedonians spoke a Greek dialect.They worshipped the same gods like the rest of Greeks. Alexander undertook and accompliced to a military campaign based on the long-term hostility between Greeks and Persians, as leader of the Greeks. Both him and his army spread the ancient Greek language and culture to the fringes of India and therefore Alexander and Macedonia have justifiably been used for centuries as a symbol of Greek civilisation.

Q Curtius Rufus:

[1] "Alexander meanwhile dealt swiftly with the unrest in Greece - not only did the Athenians rejoice at Philip's death, but the Aetolians, the Thebans, as well as Spartans and the Peloponnesians, were ready to throw off the Macedonian yoke. (Diod. 17.3.3-5) - and he marched south into Thessaly, demanding the loyalty of its people in the name of their common ancestors, Achilles (Justin 11.3.1-2; cf. Diod. 17.4.1). And with speed and diplomacy Alexander brought the Thebans and Athenians into submission (Diod. 17.4.4-6) [p.20]

[The "unrest in Greece" encompasses all the city-states in Greece. These city-states were ready to throw off the Macedonian yoke. Here we have a clear delineation between Greek city-states, who were the conquered party, and Macedonia, the conqueror. This quote in a very unambiguous way illustrates how pitiful and ridiculous is the modern Greeks' position when they claim, or equate, Macedonia as being one of, or the same as, the Greek city states. "Thebans and Athenians into submission" means one thing: Greece was won by the spear; it was a war of conquest. Therefore, modern Greeks' position that Alexander "united" the Greek city-states, rests on euphemistic foundation, and as such, has no validity with historical justice. Bottom line is, that there was no "unification" of the Greek states by Alexander or his father Philip II. When one "unifies" one does not force submission of the subjects. When one unifies, there is no "yoke" to be thrown off.]

The above text is a pure sample of distorted historical facts, coming again from Fyrom's propagandists.

Note in the first paragraph the deliberate use of bold case to mislead readers while there is not even a single mention to phrases like "in the name of their common ancestors" which shows beyond doubt Macedonians were Greeks.

However propagandists ignore conveniently similar phrases from Greek historians like :

1.

[54]"that whereas they once hoped that all Hellas would be SUBJECT to them, now they rest upon you5 the hopes of their own deliverance"

Isocrates to Philip, 54

Following the logic used by Fyroms' propagandists we should conclude Spartans were a foreign people since they wanted to make "all Hellas Subject to them" as Isocrates states.

2.

[129] Well, if I were trying to present this matter to any others before having broached it to my own country, which has thrice freed Hellas--twice from the barbarians and once from the Lacedaemonian yoke

Isocrates to Philip, 129

The above quotes of Isocrates, demonstrate how pitiful and ridiculous are the attempts of Fyrom propagandists to distort historical truth since its obvious all the major greek powers of antiquity excercized their forces upon the rest of Greeks. Unfortunately for the falsifiers of history, subduing the Greek city-states doesnt make you a non-Greek as they wished to be.

[Ptolemy]

[2] "It was decided to raze the city to the ground as a lesson to all Greek states which contemplated rebellion." [p.21] [Point of interest: "as a lesson to all Greek states". This statement indicates that Macedonia was not, and could not be included in Greece, for Macedonia was the one "giving" the lesson.]

Another pathetic argument from the well-known propagandists.

As we showed above with the use of Isocrates quote "[54]"that whereas they once hoped that ALL Hellas would be SUBJECT to them, now they rest upon you5 the hopes of their own deliverance"[/quote] The statement "ALL Hellas would be SUBJECT to them" is fatuous even to think Sparta couldnt be included in Greece because...she was the the one 'giving' the lesson.


[3] "Alexander also referred to his father, Philip, conqueror of Athenians, and recalled to their minds the recent conquest of Boeotia and the annihilation of its best known city." [p.41][/quote]

So? So did earlier Spartans, Thebans.

[4] Alexander, in a letter, responds to Darius: "His Majesty Alexander to Darius: Greetings. The Darius whose name you have assumed wrought utter destruction upon the Greek inhabitants of the Hellespontine coast and upon the Greek colonies of Ionia, and then crossed the sea with a mighty army, bringing the war to Macedonia and Greece." [p.50-1] [Alexander here himself clearly separates Greece from Macedonia]

Actually Alexander writing to Darius stated the following.
"Your ancestors came to Macedonia and the rest of Hellas and did us great harm, though we had done them no prior injury. I have been appointed leader of the Greeks, and wanting to punish the Persians I have come to Asia, which I took from you..."
Arrian, Anabasis of Alexander II, 14, 4 (Loeb, P. A. Brunt) - 95-175 AD

[5] "From here the Macedonians crossed to Mitylene which had been recently seized by the Athenian Chares, and was now held by him with a garrison of Persians, 2,000 strong. Unable to withstand the siege, Chares surrendered the city on condition that he be allowed to leave in safety, after which he made for Imbros. The Macedonians spared those who surrender." [p.63]

["Athenian" Chares with 2,000 of Persian soldiers fighting against Alexander's Macedonians. Another example of Greeks fighting against Macedonia. If this was a war to revenge Greece from Persia, Greeks would have not have fighting on the side of the Persians against the Macedonians. The truth is that they hated the Macedonians more for conquering Greece, then they did the Persians.]

Here the propagandists have totally lost it. In the Battle of Cnidus, Spartans faced the Persian fleet united along with the Athenean admiral Conon and the Greek Fleet. Its well known to everybody except as it seems from the above authors, the major Greek power had always as rivals the rest of Greek powers. The truth is that Fyrom propagandists lack any serious historical background.

6] "There is a report that, after the king had completed the Macedonian custom of marking out the circular boundary for the future city-walls with barley-meal, flocks of birds flew down and fed on the barley. Many regarded this as unfavorable omen, but the verdict of the seers was that the city would have a large immigrant population and would provide the means of livelihood to many countries." [p.69] [The Macedonians had their own distinct customs]

So?? Spartan custom was to eat Melas Zomos, a custom unique in Greece. Does it mean for the authors, they werent Greeks?

[7] "As it happened, Alexander had been sent from Macedonia a present of Macedonian clothes and a large quantity of purple material." [p.97] [Macedonian clothes, and purple material. (Macedonian customs 2) Macedonians dressed differently than the Greeks. One very peculiar feature being the kautsia, the well known Macedonian hat.]

8] "...but the king's conscience would not permit him to leave his men unburied, for by Macedonian convention there is hardly any duty in military life as binding as burial of one's dead." [p.100]

Same as the above. Each Greek region had its peculiarities and unique customs. It doesnt mean anyway this meant they were not Greeks.

[9] Inflamed with greed for kingship, Bessus and Nabarzanes now decided to carry out the plan they had long been hatching. [The plot to kill Darius the III.] "If, as they feared, Alexander rejected their treacherous overtures, they would murder Darius and head for Bactria with the troops of their own people. However, open arrest of Darius was impossible because the Persians, many thousands strong would come to the aid of their king, and the loyalty of the Greeks also caused apprehension." [p.111] [The Greeks remained loyal to Persia and against Alexander and his Macedonians to the end]

Greek mercenaries remained loyal to their employers. Same as Xenophon and his men remained loyal to his Persian employer much earlier. Again a tragic argument from Fyrom propagandists.

[Melbourne Patriot]

Originally Posted by nsminc

alexanderofmacedonia.net
alexanderofmacedonia.org
alexanderthegreat.eu.com
alexanderthegreat.us.com
ancientmacedonia.net
ancientmacedonia.org
everythingskopje.com
fyrom.eu.com
godhatesskops.com
historicalmacedonia.net
historicalmacedonia.org
historyofmacedonia.net
macedonianbrotherhood.com
macedonianbrotherhood.net
macedonianbrotherhood.org
macedoniandiaspora.com
macedoniandiaspora.net
macedonianheritage.net
macedonianheritage.org
makedonja.net
makedonja.org
mymacedonia.org
skopje.eu.com
truemacedonia.net
truemacedonia.org
unitedmacedonia.net
unitedmacedonia.org

I dont know how many of these sites are being used properly, Ive seen the banners on most...and its good to have them, but maybe its an idea to come to some sort of agreement with the owners of the best greek based macedonia sites to display there sites on the sites listed above. I think that would give the skops way more problems than the banners currently displayed. Just my opinion thats all.