The BIG Stefov Lies # 17: "Ancient Macedonians were not Greeks"

[Ptolemy]

This is a response to the new propagandistic article, recently posted in http://maknews.com/html/articles/stefov/stefov102.html , which as usual tries to misinform readers and falsificate history.

Modern Greece is a modern creation, a Great Power concoction. Britain and France in the early 19th century desperately needed an ally in the Balkans to protect their precious interests from Russia. Greece was created to prevent Russia from accessing Mediterranean waters, from spoiling Britain's back yard.

The author obviously is misinformed. The truth is that Greece is the birth-place of the Western Civilisation and the years of the European Enlightement have inspired a wave of sympathy , for the sufferings of Greeks under the Ottoman Empire's boot . They have also created a new word for this. The word PHILELLENES , and PHILELLENISM . As the Ottoman Empire was slowly slipping into the state of the "Sick Man Of the East" , the need to free the land where Democracy was invented , became greater and greater .

The authors estimation that the free Greek state would function as any kind of an ally to the great powers France and England ( here the author simple forgets even to mention the Austrian-Hungarian Empire who was much more close than France and England to the Ottoman Empire and Greece , its not to his convinience ) , is simply a wishful thinking if not an object of laughing .

The Greek state that was freed was nothing much than a poor , unorganised
country. The proof lies in that it took Grece a 100 years to become worthy of fighting a war against Turkey and freeing Greek lands under Turkish oppression.

Macedonia's partition and Greece's gain have nothing to do with "historical rights" but plenty to do with loyalty to an ally. Greece did its job well in serving as a "guard dog" for Britain so it was rewarded with Macedonian lands. The rest are lies to keep the innocent and unaware
tangled in arguments from which there is no escape.

Macedonias partition was a scheme of the Great Powers of the time, who did not want a very strong Greek state and a compromise arise between them and the Russians who have helped greatly in creating Bulgaria .

So to Greece went 51% of the geographical area of Macedonia, due to respect of Greek History , 14% went to Bulgaria , because the population there were of Bulgarian origin ( Macedonia of Pirin ) and the rest went to Yugoslavia , because of the Slavic population there.

The author, is tragically poorly informed , or he forgets to mention that Greece and Serbia were on the victors side in WWI and Bulgaria , and Turkey , on the defeated side . So IF the British were to reward Greece for beeing victorious would have had done much better. But they didnt.....

If you don't believe me ask yourself these questions;

1. How could the ancient Macedonians die off to the last one making them
extinct and the so-called ancient "Greeks" survive?

The truth is miles away from the author's estimations. Ancient Macedonians had fused with the rest of Hellenes, as even the vast majority of modern historians acknowledge, CENTURIES before the arrival of the slavs in Balkans. On the other hand, it is easily refuted as entirely absurb and an insult to...everybody's intelligence, the claim of the author and the inhabitants of his 'artificially invented' country that ancient Macedonians didnt fuse with the southern Greeks, from the moment, since at least Alexander’s time both spoke and understood a common language (Greek), both worshipped the same gods and shared a ‘Hellenistic’ culture. Both became an integral part of the Roman and later Byzantine Empire, both became the defining culture of the Byzantine Empire. Both had embraced Christianity and determined the characteristics of the Orthodox faith and finally consider eachother as 'kinsmen'.

How can all the modern Macedonians be "Slavs" that came to the Balkans during the 6th century AD and all the modern Greeks be "Hellenes" direct descendants from the ancient "Greeks"?

The explanation is quite simple but seems too difficult for the author. Hellenes speak and read the same language that their ansestors used . It has been also been proved by linguists. A modern greek can easily read an ancient Macedonian inscription such as Pella Katadesmos, for the simple reason...they both speak essentially the same language. On the contrary, the Slavic inhabitants of FYROM that are descendants of the Slavic tribes which arrived in the area around the 6th century, according to internationally acknowledged historians and linguists around the world, speak a slavic language, similar to Bulgarian and...they cant read an ancient macedonian insciption for the simple reason, they dont speak Greek!!

2. Didn't Greece in 1912, 1913 invade and occupy a fully populated Macedonia? What happened to those Macedonians? Did they turn into "Greeks" overnight? (Yes they did! In 1928 Greece declared to the world that it had a 98% "pure Greek" homogenous population).
3. How has Greece maintained all its territories "pure Greek" with a 2, 300 year old open border?

The propagandists of FYROM simply ignore the fact that Nobody has invaded Macedonia in 1913 but instead during the first Balkan war, the Balkan coalition between Bulgaria, Serbia, Greece and Montenegro INVADED OTTOMAN EMPIRE, for the liberation of the Bulgarians, Greek and Serbs who lived there and unfortunately for the propagandists of FYROM, there was NEVER, back then, ANY ethnicity called Macedonians.

The movement for independent Macedonia, which started far earlier (at the end of the 19th century) had an UNDISPUTED BULGARIAN CHARACTER and this fact is described by any contemporary (of the time) observer, historian, diplomat, nomatter what the skopjan propagandists claim. There is no need to rewrite history - it's well described in so many books. There are many examples of 1 nation living in 2 different states. Furthermore, the geographical region called Macedonia had a rather mixed population at that time because of which the idea for independent Macedonia was more attractive for the local population than the idea for union with Bulgaria. The fact that the uprising in 1903 was a Bulgarian one and the fact that IMRO was an organization founded by BULGARIANS are descibed in all books (from that time and even in all books pre-1945). But the majority of these people that inhabited Macedonia , had a Greek consiousness which made them GREEKS . So, they DID NOT TURN Greeks ...THEY WERE GREEKS!

4. How is it possible in this day and age for Greece, a "newly created" state to be allowed to have 2,400 year old inheritance rights (without a shred of evidence to prove it) and evict Macedonians from their lands on which they lived for more than 1,500 years?

The author obviously is lacking any seriousness here. NO SHRED OF EVIDENCE??? What type of evidence does the author want ??
Isnt the language a strong evidence?? The author, is trying in vain. From one hand , is asking what are the evidences that Greeks have inheritance rights and on the other hand he refuted himself by reaching the "easy conclusion" that Macedonias are living in Macedonia 1500 years ... of course someone would ask...which Macedonians ?? The Macedonians that spoke Greek, worshiped Greek Gods , participated in the Olympic games which were GREEK GAMES for GREEK??? Or any other Slav, Turk , Vlach ,Gypsy , who acquired the name 'Macedonian', and this is considered by the author rightful by....simply living in the geographical area!!!

Even by Greek accounts, Macedonians have lived in Macedonia since the 6th century AD, yet Greece is still evicting them. Greece is punishing Macedonians for being Macedonian! What do you think the name dispute is all about?

The name dispute is a dispute between people that are trying to steal the History of the geographical area called Macedonia and people that are trying to preserve and defend their History...the history of their ancestors.
Macedonians lived in the area 2300 years , NOT 1500 years. The later ( 1500 years) is the time that SLAVS have come and settled in the area...There is
a big, very big difference beeing a Slav , speaking a slavish idiom , and beeing a Macedonian, speaking Greek and belonging to the Greek Nation. It is as absurb as a modern Turk, claims to be the rightful descendant of...ancient Achaemenids Persians, and claim Cyrus the Great as a...Turk hero, simply for the reason that some parts of the old Achaemenid Persia is inside modern Turkey.

Like I said before, modern Greece is a newly created state modeled after the ancient city states with a 2,400 year old historical gap.

Obviously the HISTORICAL GAP exists only in the mind of the author. The area was inhabited by the Greek tribe of Macedonians who were conquered by the Romans , as all Greece , for some hundrend years, and after that it became a part of the Byzantine Empire , which gradually turned to a Greek Empire , as the spoken and written language was Greek , and believed in the same religion Christianity. The most important thing is that the Greek language is STILL SPOKEN in the area for more than 3000 years.

Greece has usurped the ancient Macedonian heritage and Macedonian lands and will do anything to hang on to them including fabricating history and spreading BIG Greek lies.

As everybody knows (or at least one, doesnt yet) You cannot usurp something that is already yours and the Macedonian tribe , is proved beyond ANY doubt that it was Greek and not Slavic, which makes its heritage Greek too ... Historicaly it is a fact that cannot be denied by anyone.

[quote]Macedonians are an obstacle to Greece's survival. /quote]

Which Macedonians ?? The Slavs living in the small part of the geographical region called Macedonia around Skopje ??
They are numbered about 1.5 millions ... About 40% of FYROM's population is Albanians , who DO NOT WANT TO BE CALLED MACEDONIANS and rightly so , because they are Albanians and proud for that . They are the part of FYROM's population that is ready to become a part of a greater Albania , which will be a fact after the intependance of Kossovo ... So ??? ARE the 1,5 million of Slavs ANY KIND OF OBSTACLE TO GREECE and especially to Greece's SURVIVAL ??? This claim equals to a joke!!!

The existence of Macedonians proves that Greece has lied all along and is now afraid that one day the crimes it has committed against the Macedonian people will be exposed. If Greece admits Macedonians exist, it will also have to admit that it has lied to the world and to its own people.

Answering to this was a great fun for me . The author is trying hard to equalize the name ot the inhabitants of an area , to the name of an ethnicity , which has NEVER existed .The "crimes" part is not worthy even a simpe denial , it is pure crap.

The author , conveniently forgets that the Slavs of the area were allies to the communists that tried to divide Greece in two pieces, during the period after the WWII , and they are guilty of vicious crimes against Greek citizens .. This goes without saying and without taking in acount the illegal and criminal efforts tha Bulgaria used in the past AND in the present , to usurp Macedonia , as in WWII , which had the result that a delegation from Bulgaria , publicly asked for forgivness from the Greeks in the area of Drama , for crimes commited during WWII.

The question that easily could be raised is why the inhabitants of FYROM, try and claim ancestry, when at the same moment their 'culture' and Slavic/Bulgarian language dont bear the slightest resemblance to the Greek towns and poli built by Alexander's generals and even worst for them, the ancient Macedonian language?? It is not only ludicrous, it insults the fundamental validity reached through accurate anthropological, archaeological, scientific endeavour and research. If the world wants to believe every fruitcake theory and leap in imagination, propaganda revisionist history etc.. over undisputed historical and scientific evidence, then every nation can make claim on another's heritage at will. In a bizzaro world this works, but in a world where legitimacy and truth are used to make genuine conclusions such activity and illegitimate claims can only be described as cultural theft. It is no worse than stealing artefacts from a museum, or stealing the identity of another person, both are criminal acts and must be condemned and not lauded. The bottom line is historical facts just don't add up in their favour at all!!

[Hellas7]

If you don't believe me ask yourself these questions;

1. How could the ancient Macedonians die off to the last one making them
extinct and the so-called ancient "Greeks" survive?

The acnient Macedonians were driven out of their homes/destroyed by Mr. Stefov's ancestors, the invading Slavs. Macedonians went to big towns such as Thessaloniki for safety which was never captured and remained a centre for Hellenism in this area or went east to Constantinople etc...

At this time anyway, the Macedonians were not calling themselves Macedonians in the ethnic sense, but only geographical. Greeks had adopted the term "Roman" to identify themselves as Christians of the Roman Empire. They were all fused together long before the Slavs invaded...

How can all the modern Macedonians be "Slavs" that came to the Balkans during the 6th century AD and all the modern Greeks be "Hellenes" direct descendants from the ancient "Greeks"?

Because you speak Slavic language, have Slavic culture and are predominately of Slavic origin. Greeks speak Greek, have Greek culture and are predominately of Greek origin. No need to go over the top and talk about "direct descendents" to overcomplicate the issue. It's not hard to grasp.

2. Didn't Greece in 1912, 1913 invade and occupy a fully populated Macedonia? What happened to those Macedonians? Did they turn into "Greeks" overnight? (Yes they did! In 1928 Greece declared to the world that it had a 98% "pure Greek" homogenous population).

Mr. Stefov obviously tries to use ignorance to persuade the reader with this junk.

in 1913, Greece did not invade Macedonia, but faught for it (against the Ottoman Empire). This was a very long and ongoing liberation. All very well documented, with many lives lost for the cause.

As for the population, almost all sources agree the Greek population of Macedonia at the time it became a part of Greece was around 250,000 thousand. (see 1911 Encyclopedia). 95% of this population resided in southern Macedonia. Turks (Muslims) were the majority in this area at the time. Slavs (of all types) had numbers comparable with Greeks. However, what Mr. Stefov fails to say is that a great majority of the Slavic population "Grecomans" had a Greek national consiousness and faught for the Greek cause, and had loyalty to the Patriarch. For us these people are Greeks through and through, and should be counted as such. The Vlachs of Macedonia were the same situation, but some would say even more so. The only thing which seperated Vlachs from Greeks is that they also spoke Latin. With these two populations included (which people recognized when they visited) Greeks formed the overwhleming majority.

To read more, see a neutel source in the 1911 Encyclopedia: http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/1...7a23322bo5.png and http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/6...7a23433od9.png

Happy reading.

As to why in 1928 could Greece be 98% homogenous?

Very simple fact, again which Mr. Stefov leaves out. Population exchanges. All Slavs with a non-Greek identity (which at that time was Bulgarian, even though today modern Skopjans claim is "Macedonian") went to Bulgaria in the treaty of Neuilly. Homogenous act #1. Then the population exchange with Turkey in which all Turks (Muslims) went to Turkey, and all Greeks* went to Greece. Homogenous act #2. Not to mention all the wars which displaced countless peoples.

So we can see why after these two major population shifts, including millions of people, would lead to a country having a homogenous population.

Really very simple is it not?

* The Skopjans also falsify saying "Christians" here. However, it was not ALL Christians who were sent to Greece. Only GREEK ORTHODOX Christians. Bulgarians and Armenians were not included in this exchange as they had their own churches.

4. How is it possible in this day and age for Greece, a "newly created" state to be allowed to have 2,400 year old inheritance rights (without a shred of evidence to prove it) and evict Macedonians from their lands on which they lived for more than 1,500 years?

Very simple again. (this guy likes to make things complicated)

The newly "created" Greece, is a continuation of a long history of Greeks, who have always existed. Despite the lame attempt to say so, there is more than enough evidence of this link. WHich is much older than that of the Slavic one of Mr. Stefovs peoples.

Like I said before, modern Greece is a newly created state modeled after the ancient city states with a 2,400 year old historical gap.

Modern Greece is a continuation of that 2,400 year old peoples with much more than just that, including a whole lot of history in between. The evidence is more than abundant. No need to feel so threatened by your own identity to attack ours. Ours actually has evidence.

Greece has usurped the ancient Macedonian heritage and Macedonian lands and will do anything to hang on to them including fabricating history and spreading BIG Greek lies.

I guess if you repeat it enough it will become true. Propaganda 101.

The existence of Macedonians proves that Greece has lied all along and is now afraid that one day the crimes it has committed against the Macedonian people will be exposed. If Greece admits Macedonians exist, it will also have to admit that it has lied to the world and to its own people.

Macedonia exists and there are 2 million Greek Macedonians. Greeks commited crimes against Bulgarians during the wars which are very well cocumented as such. No "Ethnic Macedonian" identity existed until 1945.

You, however, are Slavs, and we clearly recognize you.

[HellenicPride]

Nothing more than propaganda by Slavic Maknews and their number one propagandist Stefov. Pretty soon they are going to be well known for all their false allegations, anti Greek articles and so on. Once they realize that they can never win because history is history and Macedonia is Greek history they will claim that they are actually the original Japanese, that is why they are using a similar flag, they are getting ready for plan b because plan a is not going to work....