The Origin of Ancient Macedonians and OTHER Greeks

[Andrew]

The Bibliography in which is based the following text is :
1) Nicholas GL Hammond , A History of Macedonia (mainly volumes I,II) (O.U.P)
2) Hermann Bengtson , Griechische Geschichte: Aus den Anfaengen bis die roemische Kaiserzeit , Italian 1989 Edition by Il Mulino , Bologna
3) Andrew Robert Burn , A Traveller's History of Greece , Italian edition by Arnoldo Mondadori 1991).

For any possible errors in english , please excuse me ...I'm doing my best

The Ancient Greek History is the history of the people that spoke dialects of the Greek language in antiquity. These ancient Greeks are the result of a hybridation process between the Pre-Greeks and the Proto-Greeks , hybridation that occured around 2000 BC.From what we'll see in that hybridation the pre-Greeks offered the Aegean progressed Culture and the Aegean terminology and the Proto-Greeks offered the Indoeuropean structure of the greek language , the Patriarchic social structure (that in the Pre-Greeks is Metriarchal) and the polemophily that characterised the Myceneans (in contrast of the relatively peaceful pre-Greeks).

First settled the Pre-Greeks in multiple migrating waves. From the Pelasgians that came from Asia Minor near 8000 BC to the Carians , Abants and Leleges who came in the Aegean region around 3000 BC , was formed the so called Pre-Hellenic or Aegean Culture. Examples of these culture in the Aegean zone were the Cycladitic and Cretan-Minoic cultures , meanwhile in continental Greece we have the Pelasgian cultures in Dimini e Sesklo in Thessaly , Nea Nikomedeia in Emathia etc. These populations spoke Pre-Greek languages akine to the Asia-Minor languages and later loaned in the greek language the endings in "-nthos" and "-ssa".

It is necessary here present the latest theory on the pre-Greeks . The pre-Greeks are now divided in a pre-IEan fraction (that came directly from Asia Minor during the period 8000-3000 BC) and in a IEan fraction constituted by the "Luwians" /"Anatolians" that invaded Greece and Asia Minor from Thrace around 2300 BC as a result of the Balkan Satem (Thracians ,Dacians ,Moesians ,etc) pressure. So the latest theory recognizes a pre-Greek IEan "anatolian" fraction that precided the coming of the Greeks and was also responsible for the pre-Greek toponyms.

An interesting discusion about the whole Indo-European migrations is made in the thread: http://www.macedoniaontheweb.com/for...igrations.html

Around 2300 BC we have the arrival of Proto-Greeks that were the indoeuropeans that brought the proto-greek language in Greece. These populations first settled in southcentral Albania , Epeirus and North Western Macedonia and even there were divided in tribes and subtribes with different dialects of greek. A commercial and cultural chain is formed by the neolithic archeological locations like Sesklo,Dimini (Thessaly), Servia (Elymia) , Maliq in Albania and Pelagonia. All the findings dated before 2300 BC prove an influence of Thessaly to the other regions , but in those after 2000BC we find the others influencing Thessaly first artisticaly and later on burial manners that demonstrate migrations from north west to south east.

About the exact trajectory that the proto-Greeks took to reach Greece we must consider the original homeland of the Graeco-Aryan group and the archaeological "changing" waves that came from that homeland to Greece. Recently , most scholars belive tha tthe original homeland of the Graeco-Aryan group was the South-Eastern part of the Globular Amphora Culture in the Romanian-Ukranian borders. From there due to the "Stepp" Satem pressure the group was divided and proto-Greeks probably with the proto-Phrygians came to central Balkans by the Iron Danubian Gorge , meanwhile the Aryan group moved eastwards , where it was destined to satemize in the road and after passing north the Caspian Sea it gave it's two branches , Iranian and Indic. Back to the central Balkans , the Greeks moved to Kosovo meanwhile the Phrygians moved northwards in the Pannonian plain , and later reached the Lusatian/Lausitz region where they created the so-called "Lausitz" culture. Returning to the Greeks so far we said that they moved from Rumania to kosovo and that seems to agree with the Archeology of the Cerna Voda III and Bubanj Hum III cultures. In Kosovo , someone defended the pass to historical Paeonia (the pass between the Sar Planian and the Crna Gora mountains , pass of Kacanik) and that deviated the Greek trajectory more west to north Albania (or as N.G.L. Hammond postulates the proto-Greeks passed the pass of Kacanik and emediatetly deviated through the valleys of the rivers Tresca & Saletska and reached lake Lichnidos without passing from the vardar valley. Descending Albania , the proto-Greeks ended to North Epeirus and Western Macedonia , fact that is supported archaeologicaly by the similar cultures of Maliq III (modern south Albania) and Armenokhori (Pelagonia).So the trajectory of the proto-Greeks to the Greek soil seem to be Crna Voda III -> Bubanj Hum II -> Maliq IIb-IIIa + Armenokhori.

For a more detailed reference on the archaeological evidence on the coming of the proto-Greeks , you can look the following thread :
http://www.macedoniaontheweb.com/for...html#post89517

The only thing for inquiry is the identity of the population that blocked the entrance of the proto-Greeks from Kosovo to Paeonia. Were they anatolian IEans , neolithic pre-IEans ?? If we make the suggestion that they were of anatolian IE stock , that as we said started it's "luwian" invasion in Greece and Asia minor from Thrace at least 3 centuries before the proto-Greeks arrived in Kosovo , then these anatolians can be seen as the ancestors of the later Paeonians. A suggestion of the relation of the Paeonian language with the anatolians was made in antiquity when Athenaeus seems to have connected the Paionian tongue to the Mysian language, itself barely attested. If correct, this may mean that Paionian was an Anatolian language.But all these are pure suggestions and speculations since we still don't have enough information about the Paeonian and Mysian languages.
But so far , if we consider the Paeonians as anatolian IE from Thrace then :
1) since the anatolian invasion preceded by 3 centuries the proto-Greek one , it explains why the Paeonians were already in Paeonia when the proto-Greeks were at Kosovo , and so , forced them to "deviate rout".
2) We explain the consideration of Athenaeus tha twe have already quoted.
3) We explain Herodotus' opinion that the Paeonians were "Trojan colonists". Herodotus perceived well the relation between Paeonians and Trojans , but failed to define it exactly. The Paeonians weren't Trojan colonists , but Trojans and Paeonians were both of anatolian descent.
4) We also explain why in 550 BC the Paeonians were extended by the river Axios to Eastern Thrace , since we know that they sieged Perinthos.

After that little "Paeonian" interval let's return to the Greeks.

The Ionians (Ίωνες) , first variant Iaones (Ιάονες) settled in the coastal Albania , developed navigation skills and named the sea Ionian (Iaonian Sea) and the Gulf of the later Corinthian colony Epidamnos Ionian Gulf(Ηρόδοτος (6.127.2) «ἐκ δὲ τοῦ κόλπου τοῦ Ἰονίου Ἀμφίμνηστος Ἐπιστρόφου Ἐπιδάμνιος»).In the continental zone of this proto-greek zone that we can call "Tetralimnio" ("4 lakes" , Lichnidos/Ochrid+2 Prespes+Malik) were the other two major greek Tribes , the Aeolians-Acheans and the North Western Greek Group.Interesting at this point has the name of the region Pelagonia. The etymology is under question since some say that it means plain-land ,but others correlate it to the North-Western greek word Πελιγάν which means "the old one" , so Pelagonia can also mean "the Old land" of the North Western Greeks.

The first to invade Greece were the Ionians by sea. The Gajtan II culture near Skodra in northern Albania - where NGL Hammond in "History of Macedonia" puts the proto-Ionians - was abbandoned around 1900 BC .They settled in the Ionian Islands (Leukada early Middle Helladic cultures) , Western Peloponnesus and later in Korinthia, Argolid (Lerna MH cultures) and from there Attica , Eubea and Saronic Islands. That the Ionians were initialy in Peloponnesus is suggested by Herodotus (1.145) when he says that the twelve states of the Ionians in Asia Minor were analogus of those they had in Peloponnese . Likewise in Odyssey we have the singular frase Ἴασων Ἄργος (Σ,246) that stands for Ionian Peloponnese and lastly we know that the more noble families of classical Athens (Alcmeonids and Peisistratids) were of Pylean discent ,removed by the arrival of the Dorians in Peloponnese and gone in Attica.The second greek invasion was made "via land" from the Aeolians-Acheans . Following the Pindus Chain they settled in all over the Greek continent with high concentration in Thessaly and Arcady (continental Peloponnese).This Aeolian-Achean migrating vector is suggested by Homer. In fact , Achilles (Aeolian heroe) prays to the Dodonian pelasgian Zeus , as the god of his ancestors , meanwhile his grandfather name Aeakus (greek Αιακός) letterarly means "of/from the Aias" (like Khalkidike means of the Khalkideans , Bottike of the Bottieans and Attike (Αττική/Ατθική of the Attheans ,Ατθείς), and Aias is a Variant of the Epeirotan river Aous (That's why the tribe that inhabited by Aous is called Parauaeae (Παραυαίοι , παρά τον Αώο/Αία) and the Perrhaeboi are the aeolophon population inhabiting first at the begining of the ΑίFας (πέρρας ΑίFου -> ΠερραιFοί -> Περραιβοί)).The name Aias (older form with a "digamma" ΑίFας as we've already said) is also curried by other two homeric heroes : the Telamonian Aias of Salamis (his father Telamonas is some times mentioned as brother of Peleus , father of Achilles) and the locrian Aias.All this insistance of the Aeolians-Acheans for the river Aous/Aias is an element of their origin , like the Boeotian name Pindarus shows a correlation with the mountain Pindus (eastern most part of central Pindus , Boion mountain in Macedonia ??) .Another Homeric element that suggests Aeolian migration from Epeirus if in Iliad (II,748-755): "Guneus brought two and twenty ships from Cyphus, and he was followed by the Enienes and the valiant Peraebi, who dwelt about wintry Dodona, and held the lands round the lovely river Titaresius, which sends its waters into the Peneus. They do not mingle with the silver eddies of the Peneus, but flow on the top of them like oil; for the Titaresius is a branch of dread Orcus and of the river Styx". The third group , the so called North Western Greeks "filled in the blanks" that the others left and were settled in Epeirus , south Albania and Upper (=North Western , mountainus) Macedonia.

Two other interesting mentions of Epeirus as the first station of the proto-Greeks come from Aristotle and Claudius Ptolemy. Aristotle in his Meteorologika quotes :

The deluge in the time of Deucalion, for instance, took place chiefly in the Greek world and in it especially about ancient Hellas , the country about Dodona and the Achelous, a river which has often changed its course. Here the Selli dwelt and those who were formerly called Graeci and now Hellenes.

Interestingly , the name Graecus (Γραικός) is related with the greek word Γραία / Γηραιός meaning "old one" ...a good name for the people inhabiting Epeirus ..."the oldest part of Greece" as Claudius Ptolemy below defines it.

Claudius Ptolemy later in his geography stated that "Greece starts from Orikos and epeirus is it's most ancient region".

(άρχά Ἐλλάς ἀπό Ωρικυάς και ἀρχέγονος Ἐλλάς Ἥπειρος)

At this point Ionians and Aeolians were more mixed and influenced by the advanced Pre-Greeks. The result was their progression in what was the Mycenean Culture which was caused by the cultural assistance of the more advanced Aegean Culture. On the other hand , the North Western Greeks were isolated in the Inlands and Heighlands and this caused lesser interaction with the evolved pre-Greek cultures. The result was their stagnancy in the nomadic and goatherding mountain manner of life. That stagnancy was still obvius during clasic times and that was the basic reason why the northwestern greeks were sometimes considered "barbarians" from the other more "sophisticated" Greeks. At this point it would not be a mistake at all if we postulated that the North Western Greeks of Epeirus and Macedonia were from all the greek tribes the most akine to the proto-Greeks that invaded Greece as we said above around 2200-1800 BC. One of the many proofs of that is the quote (V.88) of Herodotus:

88. In truth however this fashion of dress is not Ionian originally but Carian, for the old Hellenic fashion of dress for women was universally the same as that which we now call Dorian.

88. [1] ἔστι δὲ ἀληθέι λόγῳ χρεωμένοισι οὐκ Ἰὰς αὕτη ἡ ἐσθὴς τὸ παλαιὸν ἀλλὰ Κάειρα, ἐπεὶ ἥ γε Ἑλληνικὴ ἐσθὴς πᾶσα ἡ ἀρχαίη τῶν γυναικῶν ἡ αὐτὴ ἦν τὴν νῦν Δωρίδα καλέομεν.

This little quote contains in a "concentrated" manner what we said above about the pre-Greek and proto-Greek interactions. Note that the original greek dressing style is the Doric one (North Western Greek , proto-Greek) and the Ionian women have adopted the Carian (pre-Greek , Aegean) dressing style.

The Mycenean centers were at their summit of their culture during the period 1500-1300 BC. In this period we have the congestion of these centers that provoced a large scale colonization in Continental Greece , Aegean islands like Crete,Rodus ecc , first settlements in the coasts of Asia Minor and Cyprus.

Related to our basic theme is the exact northern borders of the Mycenaean world. Today it is safely recognized that Elymia and West Pieria wer part of this world and as we will see later on , they were the focal point from were the Macedonians have started to expand. In Aiane (Elymia) , archaeological discoveries have proven that the city belonged to the Mycenean world in all it's modalities : Ceramic , Burial and even a phrase in Linear B Mycenaean writing. In Agios Demetrios (West Pieria) , a Mycenaean cemetery has been discovered and near there we can put the location of the city of Levaea as we will see below. The relation of the Macedonians with the Mycenaean world is also attested by the macedonian anthroponym Ikkotas (Ικκότας) as a variant of the common greek Ippotas (Ιππότας). The deciphering of the mycenaean Linear B by Ventris & Chadwick gave the myceaean word for "horse" as "i-qo" (pronounced i-kwo) , meanwhile the later greek word for "horse" was hippos (ίππος). The proto-IE word for horse is "ekwuus" (latin equus) and the transformation of the begining "e" to "i" is considered by some linguists as an exclusively greek property.

Later , around 1200 BC we have the Myceneo-Trojan Conflict. Troy was a flourishing commercial center with commersial communication from Egypt to the Adriatic sea (Veneti/Eneti who are mentioned by Homer as Trojan allies). Troy's sea trade was inhibited by the Mycenean Pirate Activity . So they answered by developing a terrestrial trade-path with the Adriatic sea. This trade-path was that on which later the Romans made the Via Egnatia. To secure the path from Greeks and other tribes they send Allies and Colonists in the hot-points of the path. So we have the arrival of Thrakes , Mysians and Paeonians (the last Herodotus knows them as colonists of the Trojan Teukrians).

After the fall of Troy , a new force invaded the Balkans (or they were already in the Balkans and started their expansion after the Troian war?) wanting to take control of this commercial path. They are the Phrygians/Bryges , vehicles of the so-called Lausitz Culture (Lausitz is a region in the Germano-Polonian borders). The Phrygians are the importers of the Iron Age in the Balkans , although it is more correct to say that the arrival of the Phrygians and the arrival of Iron use in the south Balkans are two independent contemporany facts ,since Iron working was known earlier in Asia and probably came from there. We find them settled from Adriatic-Ionian sea , to Central Macedonia and Asia Minor. The center of their reign was Central Macedonia and their capital was the first Edessa ( from the phrygian word vedy=Water) that was on later Macedonian Aegai. Professor Manolis Andronikos in Vergina has found three different , independent cemeteries: the oldest one was Phrygic , the middle one was Illyrian and the latest one Macedonian.There , the Phrygians have influenced and were influenced by the Bottieans (they adopted the minoan double-Ax/pelekys symbol )who were Minoic Cretan colonists that came to central macedonian plain near 1400 BC when the Acheans invaded Crete.

Since we are talking about Phrygians at this point it's interesting to consider some things about them. Traditionaly , we put the Phrygian expansion after the fall of Troy. Homer mentions the Phrygians as Troian allies:

Phorcys, again, and noble Ascanius led the Phrygians from the far country of Ascania, and both were eager for the fray.

This Ascania is interesting because it is very akine to the Uscana , the capital of the Illyrian (?) Penestians northwest of Pelagonia , in modern day Kitsevo (FYROM).As we're about to see the Phrygians had to leave the Balkans and move to Asia leaving only some "relics". One of this "relics" were the Bryges/Briges who were dwelling in clasic times north of Pelagonia and neighbooring with the Penestians. So one is tempted to say that during the Troian War the Phrygians had all ready descended to the Balkans and as Troian commercial partners (?) and later allies lived in Uscana/Ascania. Also one is tempted to ask him self about the Penestians . Were they originaly Illyrians or Phrygians (or something else) that dwelling among Illyrians became "Illyrized" later ?

These Penestians are also found in Thessaly as descendants of the Aeolian Boetians who haven't migrated to Boetia when the NWG Thessalians arrived about 1200 BC. Here is what Archemachus (cited by Athenaeus, VI, 264), a 3rd century BC writer, believed about the Penestians:

"The Aeolian Boeotians who did not emigrate when their country Thessaly was conquered by the Thessalians, surrendered themselves to the victors on condition that they should not be carried out of the country, nor be put to death, but should cultivate the land for the new owners of the soil, paying by way of rent a portion of the produce of it, and many of them are richer than their masters."

All this indicates that the Penestians were certainly a pre-Illyric tribe , but we can't tell if they were of Phrygian or Greek stock. Interestingly , both the two versions agree on the origin of the Armenians:

1) Herodotus considers the Armenians as Phrygian colonists in (VII,73):

73. The Phrygians had an equipment very like that of the Paphlagonians with some slight difference. Now the Phrygians, as the Macedonians say, used to be called Brigians during the time that they were natives of Europe and dwelt with the Macedonians; but after they had changed into Asia, with their country they changed also their name and were called Phrygians. The Armenians were armed just like the Phrygians, being settlers from the Phrygians.

73. [1] Φρύγες δὲ ἀγχοτάτω τῆς Παφλαγονικῆς σκευὴν εἶχον, ὀλίγον παραλλάσσοντες. οἱ δὲ Φρύγες, ὡς Μακεδόνες λέγουσι, ἐκαλέοντο Βρίγες χρόνον ὅσον Εὐρωπήιοι ἐόντες σύνοικοι ἦσαν Μακεδόσι, μεταβάντες δὲ ἐς τὴν Ἀσίην ἅμα τῇ χώρῃ καὶ τὸ οὔνομα μετέβαλον ἐς Φρύγας. Ἀρμένιοι δὲ κατά περ Φρύγες ἐσεσάχατο, ἐόντες Φρυγῶν ἄποικοι.

2) Strabo in book XI gives us the opinion of two Thessalians that considered the Armenians of Thessalian descent :

[12] There is an ancient story of the Armenian race to this effect: that Armenus of Armenium, a Thessalian city, which lies between Pherae and Larisa on Lake Boebe, as I have already said, accompanied Jason into Armenia; and Cyrsilus the Pharsalian and Medius the Larisaean, who accompanied Alexander, say that Armenia was named after him, and that, of the followers of Armenus, some took up their abode in Acilisene, which in earlier times was subject to the Sopheni, whereas others took up their abode in Syspiritis, as far as Calachene and Adiabene, outside the Armenian mountains. They also say that the clothing of the Armenians is Thessalian, for example, the long tunics, which in tragedies are called Thessalian ...

As a conclusion we can see some interesting connections. In two independent testimonies the Armenians are of Balkanian descent and more specificaly of Phrygian or Thessalian (Aeolians from Thessaly not exactly NWG Thessalians) descent. In the same time the Penestians also project themselves in both the Phrygian and Thessalian (Aeolian-Boetian) sphere. So somekind of connection is more than obvius , the only thing remaining is to define the exact nature of this connection between Penestians,Phrygians and Aeolians of Thessaly.

Yet I must admit that latest linguistic theories want the Armenian language descending from the Aryan (Indo-Iranian) branch and not form the Phrygian one. By that optical angle the Armenians are now related with the Cimmerians that invaded Anatolia from Caucasus around 650 BC and originated from the Aryan branch when it was passing over Caucasus , from the Black Sea to the Caspian sea.

The phrygian culture was flourishing from 1050 to 900 BC. Their decline and migration in Asia Minor was the result of the Illyrian south Expansion (vehicle of the so called Glasinac culture (Glasinac is a locality in Bosnia-Herzegovina). This expansion was formitable but short lasted , because Greeks, Paeonians and Thracians (with Cimmerian help the last ones) caused the Illyrian retreat in northwest direction in what was later the Illyrian region in classical times.The Illyrians left only burial modalities which have been found in Macedonia , Amphipolis, Western Thrace , the Thessalic Alo and even in the northwestern Peloponnese (morelikely they were there as Mercenaries).The tribe of the Maedi in western Thrace is considered an Illyrian Tribe left behind among the Thracian tribes.

Knowing this context we can now speak about the origin of the Macedonians.

First of all , it is important to postulate that the conditions that caused the "hellenogenesis" (pre-Greek and proto-Greek hybridation) in south Greece, are also safely recognized in Epeirus and Macedonia and this means , for example , that Macedonia or Epeirus are not less "hellenogenetic" areas than Thessaly , since in both we have pre-Greek and proto-Greek interactions with occasional non-Greek migrations.The only difference is that southern greek regions recieved more Aegean/pre-Greek cultural assistance. And if someone thinks that Epeirus and Macedonia are more predisposed by their geography for greek-not greek interactions and population mixing (for example the theories that want the Macedonians an Illyrian-Thracian-Greek mix), NGL Hammond starts (A History of Macedonia ,volume II)the paragrafh titled "the phyletic systems of the Macedonians and their neighbors" by mentioning : "In North Greece and in the central Balkan region the elementary unit of organized life was the small tribe , and it seems that it maintained it's identity by ENDOGAMY (inbreeding)".So nor Greeks , neither non-Greeks had mixing tendencies.

Now , most scholars include the Macedonians on the North-Western Greek branch of the Greek-speaking tribes and it is true that the latest discoveries point out the strong "Dorisms" of the Macedonian dialect. So from here and on I'll continue on considering the Macedonian dialect a NW Greek dialect. Yet if someone is interesting on the "Aeolisms" that occasionaly have been seen in the Macedonian dialect an interesting theory with more details and a proposal on the exact position of the Macedonian dialect in the Greek language (since the majority of the modern scholars agree that it's a Greek dialect) is in the following post:

http://www.macedoniaontheweb.com/for...html#post80809

The Macedonians were one of the many North Western Greek Tribes initialy living in modern day Kastoria region. Their First name was "Maketes" and their first region was "Maketa" (maybe variation of Makeda = Make+da = heigh land , τ and δ are often interchanged in greek like τόπος/δάπος from which derives αλλοδαπός/ημεδαπὀς/τηλεδαπός). During the Phrygian invasion the North Western Greek tribes were pressed and forced to migrate. This is the reason why the Dorians and Epeians invaded Peloponnese , the Thessalians from Thesprotia came to the region that has their name (Thessaly), the Epeirotan tribes (Molossians,Khaonians, Thesprotians) forced to move south of the river Aous (a variant of the name Aous-Αώος is the form Αίας-Aias and that expains the name of the tribe Parauaiae-Παραυαίοι = παρά τον Αία = those next to Aias/Aous)and the Orestes have driven out the Maketes from Maketa and named the region Orestis. The Maketes forced to migrate first to the middle valley of Haliakmon and the Boion mountain here probably have cohabited with the Dorians before their descent. This is probably the reason why Herodotus in (1.56) stated that the "Dorians were Makednoi that discended from Pindus".

[I,56] ... for in the reign of Deucalion this race dwelt in Pthiotis, and in the time of Doros the son of Hellen in the land lying below Ossa and Olympos, which is called Histiaiotis; and when it was driven from Histiaiotis by the sons of Cadmos, it dwelt in Pindos and was called Makednian; and thence it moved afterwards to Dryopis, and from Dryopis it came finally to Peloponnesus, and began to be called Dorian.

[I,56]... ἐπὶ μὲν γὰρ Δευκαλίωνος βασιλέος οἴκεε γῆν τὴν Φθιῶτιν, ἐπὶ δὲ Δώρου τοῦ Ἕλληνος τὴν ὑπὸ τὴν Ὄσσαν τε καὶ τὸν Ὄλυμπον χώρην, καλεομένην δὲ Ἱστιαιῶτιν· ἐκ δὲ τῆς Ἱστιαιώτιδος ὡς ἐξανέστη ὑπὸ Καδμείων, οἴκεε ἐν Πίνδῳ Μακεδνὸν καλεόμενον· ἐνθεῦτεν δὲ αὖτις ἐς τὴν Δρυοπίδα μετέβη καὶ ἐκ τῆς Δρυοπίδος οὕτω ἐς Πελοπόννησον ἐλθὸν Δωρικὸν ἐκλήθη.

There ,two other North-Western greek tribes , the Tymfeans (from mount Tymfe in Metsovo)and the Elymians , always under Frygic direct or indirect pressure have driven away another time the Makednoi from Makednia to the Pierian Mountains were they settled as Makedones (εκ Μακέδας ων = Μακεδάων = Μακεδών , "originating from the Heighlands). What was Makednia later was divided in Tymfaea and Elymia.
The Phrygian press on the North Western Greeks was transmitted by the lasts on the other Greeks and caused the First Greek Colonization. The Aeolians from Thessaly went to the islands of northern Aegean and in the Aeolia of Asia Minor and the Ionians settled in southcentral aegean islands and the Ionia region of Asia Minor. Later the Dorians also chose to colonize Crete,Rodi and the southern coast of Asia Minor.The whole phenomenon is called by Hermann Bengtson as the "Great Aegean Migration" and also caused the migration of the Tyrrenians/Etrourians from the Aegean region to Toscan , Italy. That the Macedonians were finaly pussed to the Pierian Mountains and lived there concentrated until the Temenids started their expansion is suggested by three mentions of Herodotus and one of Hesiod:
1)In (7.127) he names the region between coastal Pieria (inhabited by Thracians) and Bottiea "Makedonis"

«…μέχρι Λυδίεώ τε ποταμοῦ καὶ Αλιάκμονος , οἵ οὐρίζουσι γῆν τὴν Βοττιαιίδα τε καὶ Μακεδονίδα , ἐς τὠυτὸ ῥέεθρον τὸ ὕδωρ συμμίσγοντες»

2)In (7.131) he names the Pierian Mountains "Macedonian Mountain" (όρος το Μακεδονικόν).
«...Περὶ Πιερίην …ὄρος τὸ Μακεδονικὸν…»
3) Herodotus in 8.137 states that Perdikkas and his Brothers arrived in the city Levaea:

137. Now of this Alexander the seventh ancestor was that Perdiccas who first became despot of the Macedonians, and that in the manner which here follows:--From Argos there fled to the Illyrians three brothers of the descendents of Temenos, Gauanes, Aëropos, and Perdiccas; and passing over from the Illyrians into the upper parts of Macedonia they came to the city of Lebaia.
137. [1] τοῦ δὲ Ἀλεξάνδρου τούτου ἕβδομος γενέτωρ Περδίκκης ἐστὶ ὁ κτησάμενος τῶν Μακεδόνων τὴν τυραννίδα τρόπῳ τοιῷδε. ἐξ Ἄργεος ἔφυγον ἐς Ἰλλυριοὺς τῶν Τημένου ἀπογόνων τρεῖς ἀδελφεοί, Γαυάνης τε καὶ Ἀέροπος καὶ Περδίκκης, ἐκ δὲ Ἰλλυριῶν ὑπερβαλόντες ἐς τὴν ἄνω Μακεδονίην ἀπίκοντο ἐς Λεβαίην πόλιν.

Now Hammond in his "The Macedonian State" states in page 5 of the english text and page 29 of the greek text:
Where was Lebaea?

An answer was provided recently by the discovery of an inscription which recorded the dedication of a liberated slave to "The autochthonous Mother of the Gods at Alebea, a village (attached) to Elimea", a city of which we know the location.
If Lebaea and Alebea are the same place, which is probable, we can put Lebaea in the western part of Pieria. This is consistent with our knowledge that the early home of the Macedonians was around Pieria and Olympus.

4) Hesiod (around 750 BC) states that mythological genarchs Makedon and Magnes were brothers , sons of Zeus and Thyia , the daughter of the genarch of all greeks Deucalion ("he who was doused by the sea", a good mythological name to remember the contact of the proto-Greeks with the sea). That fraternity wasn't tribal , since the Macedonians are now considered North-Western Greek speakers and the Magnetes were always considered Aeolophons , but cohabital (although I'm starting on concluding that Macedonians, Magnets and Boetians originaly spoke a common Doric-Aeolian , undifferenciated , "proto-continental" dialect of Greek and , later , after separating , the Macedonians were comunicating only with the NW Greek speakers of Upper Macedonia and so "differantiated" their dialect in a more NW Greek one , thus maintaining some of the Aeolisms of it's previus "undifferanciated" form , meanwhile the Magnets in straight contact with the Aelophon greeks of Thessaly were differenciated in pure Aelophons , loosing their "dorisms". The Boetians , due to contacts with all the greek dialects (NW ,Aeolic, Ionic) , were the only ones to maintain their "undifferenciated" Greek dialect , rich in both Dorisns and Aeolisms and for that "wrongly" considered "hybrid" by many scholars).That means that for a certain period Macedonians and Magnetes must have cohabited in Pieria and the arrival of the Thracians , Paeonians and others , caused the migration of the Magnetes south of Penius and the isolation of the Macedonians in the highland of Pieria (Pierian Mountain , Macedonian Mountain).
In the Thread "Greek speaking poplulations in Thermaic Gulf before Macedonians ??" you can find some elements that suggest that the names of the regions Pieria , Emathia and maybe Mygdonia are SAFELY of Greek origin and probably were given by greek populations before the arrival of the Macedonians and their expansion , populations that probably were the Magnetes.

Here is an interesting quote from NGL Hammond's "The Macedonian State" :

"What language did these Macedones speak? The name itself is Greek in root and in ethnic termination. It probably means 'highlanders,' and it is comparable to Greek tribal names such as 'Orestai' and 'Oreitai,' meaning 'mountain-men.' A reputedly earlier variant, Maketai has the same root, which means "high" as in the Greek adjective 'makednos' or the noun mekos. The genealogy of eponymous ancestors which Hesiod recorded (p. 3 above) has a bearing on the question of Greek speech. First, Hesiod made Macedon a brother of Magnes; as we know from inscriptions that the Magnetes spoke the Aeolic dialect of the Greek language, we have a predisposition to suppose that the Macedones spoke the Aeolic dialect. Secondly, Hesiod made Macedon and Magnes first cousins of Hellen's three sons - Dorus, Xouthus, and Aeolus - who were the founders of three dialects of Greek speech, namely Doric, Ionic, and Aeolic. Hesiod would not have recored thisrelationship, unless he had believed, probably in the seventh century, that the Macedones were a Greek-speaking people. The next evidence comes from Persia. At the turn of the sixth century the Persians described the tribute-paying peoples of their province in Europe, and one of them was the "Yauna Takabara" which meant the "Greeks wearing the shield-like hat" .There were Greeks in Greek city-states here and there in the province, but they were of various origins and not distinguished by a common hat. The Macedonians on the other hand had a distinctive hat , the "kausia" (against the CAUSTIC sun).We conclude that the Persians believed the Macedonians to be speakers of Greek. Finally, in the latter part of the fifth century a Greek historian, Hellanicus, visited Macedonia and modified Hesiod's genealogy by bringing Macedon and his descendants firmly into the Aeolic branch of the Greek-speaking family.

Hesiod, Persia, Hellanicus had no motive for making a false statement about the language of the Macedonians, who were then an obscure and not a powerful people. Their independent testimonies should be accepted as conclusive. That, however, is not the opinion of most scholars. They disregard or fail to assess the evidence which I have cited, and they turn instead to 'Macedonian' words and names, or/and to literary references. Philologists have studied words which have been cited as Macedonian' in ancient lexica and glossaries, and they have come to no certain conclusion; for some of the words are clearly Greek, and some are clearly not Greek. That is not surprising; for as the territory of the Macedonians expanded, they overlaid and lived with peoples who spoke Illyrian, Paeonian, Thracian and Phrygian, and they certainly borrowed words from them which excited the authors of lexica and glossaries. The philological studies result in a verdict, in my opinion, of "non liquet".

The toponyms of the Macedonian homeland are the most significant. Nearly all of them are Greek: Pieria, Lebaea, Heracleum, Dium, Petra, Leibethra, Aegae, Aegydium, Acesae, Acesamenae; the rivers Helicon, Aeson, Leucus, Baphyras, Sardon, Elpeius, Mitys; lake Ascuris and the region Lapathus. The mountain names Olympus and Titarium may be pre-Greek; Edessa, the earlier name for the place where Aegae was founded, and its river Ascordus were Phrygian.

The deities worshipped by the Macedones and the names which they gave to the months were predominantly Greek, and there is no doubt that these were not borrowings. To Greek literary writers before the Hellenistic period the Macedonians were "barbarians" The term referred to their way of life and their institutions, which were those of the 'ethne' and not of the city-state, and it did not refer to their speech. We can see this in the case of Epirus. There Thucydides called the tribes "barbarians".But inscriptions found in Epirus have shown conclusively that the Epirote tribes in Thucydides' lifetime were speaking Greek and used names which were Greek.

The next step of the Macedonian History was the take over of the power by the Temenids from the Peloponnesian Argos. Perdikkas I is the first known Temenid king , but another more mythological feature is King Caranus. The Argive descend of the Macedonian Royal family was widely accepted in antiquity , mentioned many times from Herodotus , Thoukydides (II,98) and by other historians , so I give the most classic statement of Herodotus in (V,22)

[22] And that these descendants of Perdiccas are Hellenes, as they themselves say, I happen to know myself, and not only so, but I will prove in the succeeding history that they are Hellenes. Moreover the Hellanodicai, who manage the games at Olympia, decided that they were so: for when Alexander wished to contend in the games and had descended for this purpose into the arena, the Hellenes who were to run against him tried to exclude him, saying that the contest was not for Barbarians to contend in but for Hellenes: since however Alexander proved that he was of Argos, he was judged to be a Hellene, and when he entered the contest of the foot-race his lot came out with that of the first.

[22] [1] Ἕλληνας δὲ εἶναι τούτους τοὺς ἀπὸ Περδίκκεω γεγονότας, κατά περ αὐτοὶ λέγουσι, αὐτός τε οὕτω τυγχάνω ἐπιστάμενος καὶ δὴ καὶ ἐν τοῖσι ὄπισθε λόγοισι ἀποδέξω ὡς εἰσὶ Ἕλληνες, πρὸς δὲ καὶ οἱ τὸν ἐν Ὀλυμπίῃ διέποντες ἀγῶνα Ἑλληνοδίκαι οὕτω ἔγνωσαν εἶναι. [2] Ἀλεξάνδρου γὰρ ἀεθλεύειν ἑλομένου καὶ καταβάντος ἐπ᾽ αὐτὸ τοῦτο, οἱ ἀντιθευσόμενοι Ἑλλήνων ἐξεῖργόν μιν, φάμενοι οὐ βαρβάρων ἀγωνιστέων εἶναι τὸν ἀγῶνα ἀλλὰ Ἑλλήνων· Ἀλέξανδρος δὲ ἐπειδὴ ἀπέδεξε ὡς εἴη Ἀργεῖος, ἐκρίθη τε εἶναι Ἕλλην καὶ ἀγωνιζόμενος στάδιον συνεξέπιπτε τῷ πρώτῳ. ταῦτα μέν νυν οὕτω κῃ ἐγένετο.

Perdikkas was probably exciled from Argos and became king probably by marring a daughter of the previus king . That previus king was part of the Argead family or Regal Subtribe of the Macedonians as NGL Hammond suggests knowing that Argead means "descendant of Argeas" (patronymic) and not "originating from Argos" (Αργείος ,toponymic). In archaic greek Argos means fertile plain (Argos in Argolid was plain . Thessaly before the arrival of the Thessalians is known as Argos Pelasgikon) and this suggests that the Argeads can be the first subtribe of the heighlanders Macedonians that adapted themselves in the plain-way of life (more sedentary and agricultived) as they initialy occupied the southern part (below Haliakmon river) of the Bottiean plain (Emathia , Makedonis).This marriage is a good explanation of the double name of the royal family Temenids and Argeads. If it seems difficult to believe how an Argive can take the control of the Macedonians by marriage remember that Menelaus in Homer became king of Sparta by marring Helena , the daughter of the Spartan King Tindareus , although Tindareus had living sons , the Dioscurians and that the Royal house of the Lynkestes in Upper Macedonia were Bakkhiads from Korinth.

As we said above with the Temenids starts the Macedonian Expansion . First they drove away Thracians from Pieria , and Bottieans and other non greek populations from south Bottiea (Emathia) were they built their Capital Aegai in what was the old Phrygian Capital Edessa. The people who were driven away founded a new Edessa in the south western margines of Barnous montain.In the next expanding step ,the Macedonians removed the Bottieans from the rest of Bottiea and forced them to migrate to Bottike in Khalkidike , removed the Almopians from the fertile close valley of Almopia ,and removed the Eordians from Eordea. This kingdom , including Pieria ,Emathia,Bottiea,Almopia,Eordea is knows as the Old Macedonian kingdom and its limits were :
-in the North the Mountain Barnus
-in the East river Axios
-in the West lake Begoritis
-in the South Penius river and South Olympus (όρος Δότιον)

About the identity of the Bottians , Strabo considered them minoan colonists from Crete. Archaeology has discovered that they used the double ax symbol. Now the ancients had connected the double ax with the Minoan Cretans and that's why they thought the Botteans as their colonists. In reality , the double ax symbol was a more diffused anatolian symbol as we know that the Lydians also used it. Strangely , the basic river of the Bottian plain was and still is called nowdays "Ludias" !!!. So the Bottians , just as we said about the Paeonians can now be seen as anatolians who invated Greece from Thrace , parallely with the invasion of their "cousins" in Asia Minor. If that is the case then the same thing could be true with the mysterius tribes of the Almopes , the Krestonians and the Eordeans. About the Krestonians Herodotus informs us that they didn't have common language and customs with the rest of the Thracians and for that he considered them "Pelasgians".

So if the Bottians are seeing as part of the anatolian invasions of the Greek soil then the myth of Pelops acquires another interpretation. We know that the ancients considered Pelops as a Phrygian or Lydian (anatolian in both cases !!!) that became king of Peloponnesus. He had a sister named Niobe and her myth was related with Thebe and a brother named Broùsis , interestingly related with the other name of Bottia (Brousìs) !!!
So , maybe there is some true in the legent of Pelops and his myth was a remnant of the anatolian invasions from Thrace around 2500 BC.

The Macedon expansion started in the early 7th century BC , meanwhile approximately from the 800 BC we have the so-called 2nd Greek Colonization.In this process the Ionian Khalkideans from Eubea founded colonies in what they named Khalkidike ("of the Khalkideans") and other colonies in the other coast of the Thermaic Gulf (Methone and Pydna). The Ionians from Miletus,Teo and Kolophon colonised the coast of Thrace (for example Abdera) and the coasts of Propontis and Pontus.

From this period initiates a closer relationship with interroyal marriages between Macedonians and the other North Western Greek Tribes of the wider Macedonian region. This tribes were tribes that Hecateus and Strabo present as "Molossian" tribes , always North Western Greek speakers that gradually were incorporated in the Macedonian kingdom as "Upper" (meaning mountainous) Macedonia and included the regions of Elymia ,Tymphaea,Orestis,Lynkestis,Pelagonia, Derriopus and occasionaly Parauaea. Each one had their own Royal families which related to one another as we said by intermarriage. Philip II of Macedon was the son of the Temenid Amyntas III of the "Eteomacedonians" and the Bakkhiad Eyridika of the Lynkestians (the royal tombs of Vergina gave as the name Euridika three times in accordance with the North Western dialect of the region , as the Pella curse table (katadesmos) was in a north western greek dialect and the tomb of the poor Xanthus in Pella on which was written "Xanthos Demetrioy kai Amadikas uios" , which is another proof that not only the noble Macedonians had greek names ,but also the poor ones and they were North Western greek names ).Examples of these kings of Upper Macedonia are the Derdas (I,II,III) dynasty in Elymia , Arrabaeos ed Aeropus in Lynkestis , the name Antiokhus is mentioned in Orestis , Simmias and Polyperkhon in Tymphaea and we have a King P... with his later non king relative Menelaus in Pelagonia. The names of the Temenids are Perdikkas I , Argaeus , Philip I , Aeropus , Alketas , Amyntas I , Alexander I , Perdikkas II , Archelaus (moved capital in Pella , and probably inserted the name Karanos with the help of Euripides),Amyntas III , Alexander II,Perdikkas III , Philip II , Alexander III. The importance of these greek speaking regions of Upper Macedonia was enormus and later on Alexander's campaign they constituted the maggiority of the Macedonian Sarisophor Phalanx and Cavalry which demonstrates that these molossic northwestern greeks were considered equal Macedonians to the Macedonians of the Old Kingdom. On the other hand ,later , the non greek tribes that were vassaled to the Macedonians were forced on tribute paying and offering auxiliary military forces commanded by Macedonian officers (Paeonian and Thracian peltastes and Paeonian Cavalry) to the main Macedonian army . We don't have any proof that non-greek speakers ever hold the Sarisa in a Macedonian campaign,at least not before Alexander's Antitagma of the Persian Epigonoi , event that has disappointed the Macedonian Soldiers. Even the other greek-allies of the Macedonians (Thessalian Cavalry etc.) were always in discrete,separate units.

Contemporarly with the union with their brothers in the west, the Macedonians of the old kingdom expanded to East , passing Axius and conquering the regions of Mygdonia , Amphaxitis , Odomantike , Anthemus , Bottike , Edonis , Bisaltia etc.In this eastern expansion they partialy removed - partialy vassaled non greek populations , mostly Paeonians and Thracians , meanwhile a large scale colonization of these regions by the Old Kingdom Macedonians was made.The colonization from the old kingdom to the new acquisted areas is proven by the fact that the Macedonian kings use to install fiduciary population of the old kingdom in the borders of the expanded kingdom. Two examples are king Archelaus who expanded the northern limits of his kingdom to the Demir Kapu (Kavadarci) area at the end of the 5th BC century and installed population from Emathia there who named the area "Emathia" as their home place . The other example is king Philip II when he annexed the Pangaeon area he installed always population from Emathia in the city Oisyme , which was renamed to Emathia.

Most of these events were concluded in the times of Temenid King Alexander I (510-452) , the son of Amyntas I and the last was the man who offered Anthemus to the exiled Athenian Peisistratid Hippias who didn't accept it and went to the Persians. In the same time we have the annexation of Macedonia by the Persian Empire.Interestingly , as we've seen above , the Persians around 510 BC named the Macedonians as "YAUNA TAKABARA" , that is "Greeks wearing a shieldlike hat".

With Alexander I , later Archelaus and later Philip II we have a process of MACEDONIAN MODERNIZATION which is named with the bad and confusing name of "Hellenization". Hellenize means greekalize barbarians and was started by the Macedonians, MODERNIZE , on the other hand, means urbanize and instruct rough Greek populations and that is what happened in the nomadic Macedonian goatherds and agricultures. In the same time , as in the rest of the greek world , we have the adomption of the KOINE (=common ,later Ionian or Attic) dialect , that has substituted the earlier Macedonian Dialect of Greek.

Related to the Attic Greek dialect and the "uncouth" greek dialect of the Macedonians is the late-5th century BC comedy by the the Athenean Strattis named "Macedonians" or "Pausanias". Unfortunately the whole text is not saved , but the few fragments that we have of it are very interesting. In this comedy an Athenean is discussing (that is communicate in mutual intelligible dialects) with a Macedonian. The Athenean asks the Macedonian "what is the fish that you Macedonians name Sfyraena ?" and the Macedonian answers :

Macedonian : «Κέστραν μὲν ὕμμες Ὠττικοί κεκλίσκετε» , that is :

M: "what you Attics call Kestra."

Now it is obvius that the language of the Macedonian is the Greek one , since his phrase is purely greek in syntaxis , grammar and vocabulary , but it is in a dialect of greek different from the Attic one. I have underlined the "you Attics" part because that shows the dialectic difference. In standard Attic it should be "ὑμείς Ἀττικοί , instead it is "ὕμμες Ὠττικοί". Interestingly the form "ὕμμες" is attested in Homer and Sappho and that is another proof that the Macedonian dialect was an archaic , non refined dialect of greek.

From the times of Alexander the Great and on, the Cultural differences between the Macedonians and the other Greeks were vanished.

Similar MODERNIZATION processes of rough Greek populations also occured in Epeirus and Aetoloacarnania which caused the emergence of the Reign of Epeirus under Pyrrhus and the Aetolian Federation during the Roman Times.
It is interesting to note that Epeirotans, Aetolians and Macedonians are all North Western Greek Tribes , modernized in delay in respect to their urbanized counterparts , and frequently fleered by them. Some examples of that:

1) Homer , Iliad (Π,233-235 / XVI,233-235) :
«Ζεῦ ἄνα Δωδωναῖε Πελασγικὲ τηλόθι ναίων
Δωδώνης μεδέων δυσχειμέρου, ἀμφὶ δὲ Σελλοὶ
σοὶ ναίουσ' ὑποφῆται ἀνιπτόποδες χαμαιεῦναι»
"Sellae that inhabit the wintry Dodona dirty-footed and sleeping on the ground"
2) Thucidides about the Aetolians :
«τὸ γὰρ ἔθνος μέγα μὲν εἶναι τὸ τῶν Αἰτωλῶν καὶ μάχιμον, οἰκοῦν δὲ κατὰ κώμας ἀτειχίστους, καὶ ταύτας διὰ πολλοῦ, καὶ σκευῇ ψιλῇ χρώμενον οὐ χαλεπὸν ἀπέφαινον, πρὶν ξυμβοηθῆσαι, καταστραφῆναι. ἐπιχειρεῖν δ᾿ ἐκέλευον πρῶτον μὲν Ἀποδωτοῖς, ἔπειτα δὲ Ὀφιονεῦσι καὶ μετὰ τούτους Εὐρυτᾶσιν, ὅπερ μέγιστον μέρος ἐστὶ τῶν Αἰτωλῶν, ἀγνωστότατοι δὲ γλῶσσαν καὶ ὠμοφάγοι εἰσίν, ὡς λέγονται» (ΘΟΥΚΥΔΙΔΗΣ Γ,94)
Thucydides (III,94): "Aetolians...that inhabite unwalled-villages ...eaters of raw meat and with an unintelligible tongue."
3) Titus Livius (Livy) about Aetolians , Acarnanians and Macedonians in
Ab urbe condita (31.29.2) reminds us :
“Aetolos , Acarnanas , Macedonas , EIUSDEM LINGUAE HOMINES”
“Aetolians , Acarnanians , Macedonians , MEN OF THE SAME LANGUAGE”
4) The similarity of language and manner of life is also mentioned by Strabo in

[7.7.327] ...And in fact the regions about Lyncus, Pelagonia, Orestias, and Elimeia, used to be called Upper Macedonia, though later on they were by some also called Free Macedonia. But some go so far as to call the whole of the country Macedonia, as far as Corcyra, at the same time stating as their reason that in tonsure, language, short cloak, and other things of the kind, the usages of the inhabitants are similar, although, they add, some speak both languages.

The bilinguals that Strabo mentions is the hellenized fraction of the Illyrians dwelling among Macedonians and Epeirotans.

After all this ..I repeat ..one thing is Hellenize non-greek speakers and another one is MODERNIZE "uncouth" greek populations.

At this point I would like to clarify something. There are people who use the statements of some southern-greek politicians to prove that the Macedonians weren't a greek tribe. Although everyone knows that it is heighly improbable to find the truth in the words of a politician , it is interesting to see the shifty basis of such claims.
Each time that a Macedonian king was powerful enough to intefere in the southern-greek political "arena" , there were politicians that presented him as a barbarian. Two examples are:
1) The Athenian orator Demosthenes against Philip II. Demosthenes presented Philip as "the barbarian from Pella" , meanwhile , in the same time the panhellenist Isokrates was refering to him as "a Greek of Argive descend" (Phil.32 : Ἄργος μὲν γάρ ἐστι σοι πατρίς).
2) When king Archelaus was invited to restore the oligarchics in the Thessalian city Larissa , the sophist Thrasymachus in his speech For the people of Larissa stated :
“Shall we become slaves to Archelaus, Greeks as we are, to a barbarian?”
«Ἀρχελάῳ δουλεύσομεν , Ἕλληνες ὄντες βαρβάρῳ ?»
The funny thing is that almost twenty years after this statement the Athenians invited the Macedonian king Amyntas III to vote in the Amphiktyonic council , a council where only greeks were allowed to partecipate.
And even funnier is the fact that both of the accused "barbarians" , Macedonian Kings Archelaus and Philip II have participated in the Olympic games , where only Greeks could participate ,as their ancester Alexander I and other Macedonians mentioned in the table below have done.



These are some of the examples that prove that the politician's statements shouldn't be considered ad verbum , at least not before examing the whole political scene.

Except the politicians there were occasionaly other southern Greeks that sometimes were refering to the Macedonians ,Epeirotans and Aetolians as "barbarians". This tern shouldn't be translated as "non greeks" , but as uncivilized. Though these tribes were greek , as we said above , got urbanized and instructed in retard with respect to other greeks and so , in clasic period didn't participate in the Ideas and Customs of a greek city state and for that were critisized as "barbarians". As we've seen above in the quotation from NGL Hammond's "The Macedonian State" , the greek historian Thukidides considered the Macedonians , Aetolians and Epeirotans as "barbarians" , meanwhile we've found epigraphical material written in greek from these regions dating at and before Thukydides time !!! Even interesting is the fact that Thukydides' father had a Thracian name (Oloros).

In the following example I provide such an example of the abuse of the term "barbarian" among Greeks:

However the ultimate proof of Greek tribes being called 'barbarians is coming from Athenaios Deipnosophistes where Stratonicus the harp-player was asked "πότερα Βοιωτοί βαρβαρώτεροι...ή Θετταλοί, Ηλείους έφησεν" meaning "who were the greatest Barbarians, the Boeotians or the Thessalians" and he replied "the Eleans".

42. And Clearchus. in the second book of his treatise on Friendship, says,-" Stratonicus the harp-player, whenever he wished to go to sleep, used to order a slave to bring him something to drink; ' not,' says he, 'because I am thirsty now, but that I may not be presently.'" And once, at Byzantium, when a harp-player had played his prelude well, but had made a blunder of the rest of the performance, he got up and made proclamation, " That whoever would point out the harp-player who had played the prelude should receive a thousand drachme." And when he was once asked by some one who were the wickedest people, he said, "That in Pamphylia, the people of Plaselis were the worst; but that the Sidetze were the worst in the wl-hIole world." And when he was asked again, according to the account given by Hegesander, which were the greatest barbarians, the Boeotians or the Thessalians he said, " The Eleans."

.

Athenaios VIII 350a

another example of the abusive use of the word "barbarian" among Greeks comes from Plato:

In Protagoras (dialogue) 341c[1] of Plato, Prodicus labelled the Aeolic dialect as barbarian, while referring to Pittacus of Mytilene

“ He didn't know to distinguish the words correctly, being from Lesbos, and having been raised with a barbarian dialect ”

The Aeolic dialect might, in the time of Socrates and Plato, sound so strange to the Athenians, as to be termed, from an exclusive pride in the Attic literary style, barbaros.

Two other arguments that some people use to "prove" that the Macedonians weren't a greek tribe are :

1) Why doesn't Homer mentions them ??
The answer to that is here:
http://www.macedoniaontheweb.com/for...ers-homer.html

2) Why Alexander I was named "philhellen" if he was a greek ??
The answer to that is here:
http://www.macedoniaontheweb.com/for...ilhellene.html

[Astoria]

Welcome Andrew.

Thank you for this wonderfull summary.
Although I think that Hellenization includes the Modernization of hellenism and dont think of it as both seperate entities, I believe your spot on.

Kind Regards

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by Astoria

Welcome Andrew.

Thank you for this wonderfull summary.
Although I think that Hellenization includes the Modernization of hellenism and dont think of it as both seperate entities, I believe your spot on.

Kind Regards

***Thanks for reading it Astoria !!!!! ***

[akritas]

Welcome and bravo for your summary Andrew.!!!

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by akritas

Welcome and bravo for your summary Andrew.!!!

Thank you Akritas !!! By time I promise to make it better and more accurate !!

[ZZm]

If the language of the macedonians is just a dialect of the ancient greek, then why when Alexander The Great was giving orders on the battlefield the ally greek generals needed a translator so they could act on them?(this is from Plutarh)

[ZZm]

Why Alexander I was called 'Filhelen'?(no greek woudn't have to be called friend of the greeks)

[Ptolemy]

Originally Posted by ZZm

If the language of the macedonians is just a dialect of the ancient greek, then why when Alexander The Great was giving orders on the battlefield the ally greek generals needed a translator so they could act on them?(this is from Plutarh)

Provide the precise quote where Plutarch says explicitely "the ally greek generals needed a translator so they could act on them".

Quote: