Arrian-Distinction between Greeks and Macedonians

[answrspls]

well ok i just finished reading the first five books of Arrians Anabasis and although there are many parts in it that you can understand the greekness of the macedonians there are also some distinctions between them ."....Macedonians and Greeks..."!

and i dont quite understand why!

can anyone tell me if there also other distinctions like these somewhere else..between greeks and others(non-Macedonians)?

but besides what i realy liked in the book was this:
i will write in modern greek if its ok!

"Κανένας άλλος δεν υπάρχει στους Ελληνες ή στους βαρβάρους που να έχει να επιδείξει τόσο πολλά και μεγάλα έργα"

[kostas68]

Originally Posted by answrspls

well ok i just finished reading the first five books of Arrians Anabasis and although there are many parts in it that you can understand the greekness of the macedonians there are also some distinctions between them ."....Macedonians and Greeks..."!

and i dont quite understand why!

can anyone tell me if there also other distinctions like these somewhere else..between greeks and others(non-Macedonians)?

but besides what i realy liked in the book was this:
i will write in modern greek if its ok!

"Κανένας άλλος δεν υπάρχει στους Ελληνες ή στους βαρβάρους που να έχει να επιδείξει τόσο πολλά και μεγάλα έργα"

My friend,you should know that it was a usual tactic by the ancient authors to distinguish some times one concrete Greek tribe from the rest of the Greeks.Look below some excerpts from Demosthenes:
<Yet neither you, my countrymen, nor Thebans nor Lacedaemonians, were ever licensed by the Greeks to act as you pleased; far otherwise.The
decemvirates of Lysander, and the governors ([Greek: _armostai_])
established in various Greek cities to maintain Lacedaemonian influence,
were regarded as instruments of tyranny. It was found that Spartan
governors and generals, when away from home, gave loose to their vicious
inclinations, as if to indemnify themselves for the strictness of
domestic discipline. It became a maxim in their politics, that the end
justified the means. The most flagrant proof was given by the seizure of
the Cadmea at Thebes; a measure, which led to a formidable confederacy
against Sparta, and brought her to the verge of destruction.]
http://www.greektexts.com/library/De...ic/eng/93.html
<And you must be sensible, that whatever wrong the Greeks sustained from Lacedaemonians or from us, was at least inflicted by genuine people of Greece; and it might be felt>
http://www.greektexts.com/library/De...ic/eng/94.html
Look also this one from Arrian:
<Next to him was the allied Grecian cavalry under the command of Erigyius, son of Larichus. Next to these, towards the left wing of the army, were the Thessalian cavalry, under the command of Philip, son of Menelaus>.
http://websfor.org/alexander/arrian/book3a.asp
It's in the chapter 5. SETTLEMENT OF THE AFFAIRS OF EGYPT. in the end of paragraph 3.11.
And this last one by Thucidides,it's a speech of the Spartan king Brasidas to the Acanthians:
<Acanthians, the Lacedaemonians have sent out me and my army to make
good the reason that we gave for the war when we began it, viz.,
that we were going to war with the Athenians in order to free
Hellas. Our delay in coming has been caused by mistaken expectations
as to the war at home, which led us to hope, by our own unassisted
efforts and without your risking anything, to effect the speedy
downfall of the Athenians; and you must not blame us for this, as we
are now come the moment that we were able, prepared with your aid to
do our best to subdue them. Meanwhile I am astonished at finding
your gates shut against me, and at not meeting with a better
welcome. We Lacedaemonians thought of you as allies eager to have
us, to whom we should come in spirit even before we were with you in
body; and in this expectation undertook all the risks of a march of
many days through a strange country, so far did our zeal carry us.
It will be a terrible thing if after this you have other intentions,
and mean to stand in the way of your own and Hellenic freedom.>
http://www.greektexts.com/library/Th...IV/eng/95.html
It's in the pages 25-26.

[akritas]

The distinction between Macedonians and Greeks which appears in the ancient writers is due to the following reasons.

Until the 7th century B. C. every Greek people was called by its own name, such as Thessalians, Boeotians, Aetolians, etc. In the 7th century the name of Greece is generalized starting from Phthiotis. That the space inhabited by the Greek peoples was later named Greece, is clear also from Herodotus: «At that time, Argos was the first city among these which are found in today's Greece»(Herodotus I, 1, 2).

In the beginning the Macedonians comprised many kingdoms, such as the Lyncestians, Elimiots, etc., their extent defined by physical boundaries.

Around 700 B.C. the Macedonian State vas formed, where central authority was exercised by the kingdom of Aegae, forming a kind of federation with other kingdoms.

Because the Macedonians, just as the Epirotes, lived in areas removed from and of difficult access for the other Greeks, caused by the high mountains interposed, they could not directly participate in the feverish political and national life of the southern Greeks during the classical period. Removed and isolated they preserved like the Epirotes their own name, while in southern Greece the general name Greeks prevailed, together with the particular names of their tribes.

The geographical position of Macedonia, its distance from the intellectual centre of Athens and the lack of communication, caused the rest of the Greeks to consider the Macedonians before the time of Philip II, as not belonging from a political viewpoint to Greece proper, while simultaneously they disliked their political system.

The fact that in the space of ancient Greece there were many city states made no difference. Their citizens were Greeks because they had the same language (Greek), the same gods (the twelve Olympians) and the same religion. They fought between them, but they regularly united against a common danger. Then, particilaar conceptions and political passions were put aside and a panhellenic conscience prevailed all over Greece. It is what characterizes today's Greeks as well, and constitute. one of the most significant proofs of the continuation of the Greek people.

Also in this link you can read a lot of written distinctions between the ancient Greek tribes.

Are these examples help you ?

[answrspls]

yes....thank you very much again akritas and you too kostas68!especially the link you gave me was all the money

i knew there must be other examples like this with other greeks...but i am new with all this so....!!

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by answrspls

well ok i just finished reading the first five books of Arrians Anabasis and although there are many parts in it that you can understand the greekness of the macedonians there are also some distinctions between them ."....Macedonians and Greeks..."!

and i dont quite understand why!

can anyone tell me if there also other distinctions like these somewhere else..between greeks and others(non-Macedonians)?

but besides what i realy liked in the book was this:
i will write in modern greek if its ok!

"Κανένας άλλος δεν υπάρχει στους Ελληνες ή στους βαρβάρους που να έχει να επιδείξει τόσο πολλά και μεγάλα έργα"

« ΟΥΚ ΕΣΤΙΝ ΟΣΤΙΣ ΑΛΛΟΣ ΟΙΣ ΑΝΗ Ρ ΤΟΣΑΥΤΑ Η ΤΗΛΕΚΑΥΤΑ ΕΡΓΑ ΕΝ ΕΛΛΗΣΙΝ Η ΕΝ ΒΑΡΒΑΡΟΙΣ ΑΠΕΔΕΞΑΤΟ ....»

I personaly believe that that particular one was a comparison between Greeks and Persians ...it is a proposition that Alexander did much more than ANY other GREEK , and much more any Persian ..aka... Kyrus the founder of the Persian Empire ...he was the only one that could be compared to Alex ..in Arrian's thought.


About your other questions , I think the boys answered you by good examples !

[Mygdonia]

There are serious distinctions between Athens and Sparta

Greeks didn't see any petty differences amongst themselves according to Plato's Republic i.e Socrates. Greece was divided upon governmental structures democracies, tyrannies and aristocracies.

[Hellas]

[FYROMian mode]
"...the Lacedaimonians, fearful lest Themistokles should devise some great evil against them and the Hellenes, honoured him with double the numbers of gifts..." [Diodoros Sikeliotis 11.27.3]

It is evident that Spartans were not Greeks...

"The Athenians... by this denerous act they recovered the goodwill of the Hellenes and made their own leadership more secure." [Diodoros Sikeliotis 15.29.8]

It is evident that Athenians were not Greeks...
[/FYROMian mode]