Examples of ancient Greeks separating other greeks from Hellenes

[Ptolemy]

Here are many examples of Greek tribes calling other obviously Greek tribes non-Greek or stating them as seperate people from the Hellenes:

Athenians:

"When the estrangement which had arisen between the Athenians and the Hellenes became noised abroad, there came to Athens ambassadors from the Persians and from the Hellenes. [Diodoros of Sicily 11.28.1]
"...the Hellenes gathered in congress decreed to make common cause with the Athenians and advanced to Plataia in a body..." [Diodoros of Sicily 11.29.1]

"He soothed the Athenians' pride by promising them... that the Hellenes would accept their leadership..." [Plutarch, Themistokles 7]

"...the Athenians, because of their policy of occupying with colonists the lands of those whom they subdued, had a bad reputation with the Hellenes;..." [Diodoros of Sicily 15.23.4]

"And we decided upon a twofold revolt, from the Hellenes and the Athenians, not to aid the latter in harming the former... " [Thukydides, 3.13; Oration of the Mytilenaians]

"When the Athenians attacked the Hellenes, they, the Plataians... Atticized. [Thukydides, 3.62; Theban Accusations]

"The Athenians... by this denerous act they recovered the goodwill of the Hellenes and made their own leadership more secure." [Diodoros of Sicily 15.29.8]

"And this was the first naval victory that the city [Athens] had against the Hellenes, after the destruction." [Plutarch, Phokion 6]

Spartans/Lakedaimonians

"...the Lakedaimonians, fearful lest Themistokles should devise some great evil against them and the Hellenes, honoured him with double the numbers of gifts..." [Diodoros of Sicily 11.27.3]

"In this year [475 BCE] the Lakedaimonians... were resentful; consequently they were incensed at the Hellenes who had fallen away from them and continued to threaten them with the appropriate punishment." [Diodoros of Sicily 11.50.1]

"In a single battle the Peloponnesians and their allies may be able to defy all the Hellenes, but they can not carry a whole war..." [Thukydides 1.141; Oration of Pericles]

"When the Eleians not only paid no heed to them [the Lakedaimonians] but even accused them besides of enslaving the Hellenes, they dispatched Pausanias, the other of the two kings, against them with 4, 000 soldiers." [Diodoros of Sicily 14.17.6]

"But Pausanias, the king of the Lakedaimonians, being jealous of Lysandros and observing that Sparta was in ill repute among the Hellenes, marched forth with a strong army and on his arrival in Athens brought about a reconciliation between the men of the city and the exiles. [Diodoros of Sicily 14.33.6]

"He says... the Lakedaimonians... gave to the Hellenes to taste the sweet drink of freedom..." [Plutarch, Lysandros 13]

"Agesilaos was accused... that he exposed the city [Sparta] as an accomplice in the crimes against the Hellenes." [Plutarch, Agesilaos 26]

"...the Lakedaimonians, who were hard put to it by the double war, that against the Hellenes and that against the Persians, dispatched their admiral Antalkidas to Artaxerxes to treat for peace." [Diodoros of Sicily 14.110.2]

"The Lakedaimonians... used their allies roughly and harshly, stirring up, besides, unjust and insolent wars against the Hellenes, ..." [Diodoros of Sicily 15.1.3]

"At this time the kings of the Lakedaimonians were at variance with each other on matters of policy. Agesipolis, who was a peaceful and just man and, furthermore, excelled in wisdom, declared that they should abide by their oaths and not enslave the Hellenes contrary to the common agreements." [Diodoros of Sicily 15.16.4]

"Thus, the Hellenes were wondering what the state of the Lakedaimonian army would be had it been commanded by Agesilaos or... the old Leonidas." [Plutarch, Agis 14]

"Even though the Lakedaimonians had combated the Hellenes many times only one of their kings had ever died in action..." [Plutarch, Agis 21]


Greeks of Asia Minor, the Aegean islands, Krete, Cyprus, Central Greece, the Ionian Sea and the West:

"The Athenians... reasoned that, if the Ionians were given new homes by the Hellenes acting in common they would no longer look upon Athens as their mother-city." [Diodoros of Sicily 11.37.3]

"...and as for the Hellenes, they were emboldened by the promise of the Ionians, and... came down eagerly in a body from Salamis to the shore in preparation for the sea- battle." [Diodoros of Sicily 11.17.4]
"Now the Samians and Milesians had decided unanimously beforehand to support the Hellenes..." [Diodoros of Sicily 11.36.2]

"...although the Ionians thought that the Hellenes would be encouraged, the result was the very opposite." [Diodoros of Sicily 11.36.2]

"When the Samians and Milesians put in their appearance, the Hellenes plucked up courage, ... and Aiolians participated in the battle, ..." [Diodoros of Sicily 11.36.4-5]

"When the Aiolians and Ionians had heard these promises, they resolved to take the advice of the Hellenes..." [Diodoros of Sicily 11.37.2]

"The Kretans, when the Hellenes sent to ask aid from them... acted as follows..." [Herodotos 7.169]

"The King [of Persia], now that his difference with the Hellenes was settled, made ready his armament for the war against Cyprus. For Evagoras had got possession of almost the whole of Cyprus and gathered strong armaments, because [king] Artaxerxes was distracted by the war against the Hellenes." [Diodoros of Sicily 14.110.5]

"The Lokrians... when they learned that Leonidas had arrived at Thermopylai, changed their minds and went over to the Hellenes." [Diodoros of Sicily 11.4.6]

"Now the Phokians had chosen the cause of the Hellenes, but seeing that they were unable to offer resistance... fled for safety to the rugged regions about Mount Parnassos." [Diodoros of Sicily 11.14.1]

"The Thebans, anticipating the arrival of a large army from Hellas to aid the Lakedaimonians [controlling the citadel of Thebes, the Kadmeia], dispatched envoys to Athens to remind them... and to request them to come with all their forces and assist them in reducing the Kadmeia before the arrival of the Lakedaimonians." [Diodoros of Sicily 15.25.4]

"All the Hellenes gladly received the proposal [of Artaxerxes, the Persian King], and all the cities agreed to a general peace except Thebes; for the Thebans alone, being engaged in bringing Boiotia under a single confederacy, were not admitted by the Hellenes because of the general determination to have the oaths and treaties made city by city." [Diodoros of Sicily 15.50.4]

"Since the Lakedaimonians made peace with all the Hellenes, they were in war only with the Thebans..." [Plutarch, Pelopidas 20]
"... the recorders of the Amphictyons [the hieromnemones] brought charges against the Phokians and... if they did not obey, they should incur the common hatred of the Hellenes." [Diodoros of Sicily 16.23.3]

"And Gelon replied with vehemence: `Hellenes, ... you exhort me to join in league with you against the barbarian...' [Herodotos, 7.157]

"Gelon [the ruler of the Greek city of Syrakousai]... was making ready... to join the Hellenes in the war against the Persians." [Diodoros of Sicily 11.26.4]

"This is how they (the Kerkyraians) eluded the reproaches of the Hellenes. [Herodotos, 7.168]

Looks like if we followed the moronic slavoskopjan way of thinking neither Atheneans, Spartans and rest would be Hellenes

[admin]

Excellent Thread! beautiful stuff...we need to merge these and add these to the macedonia articles database.

we can then link to them from the FRONT PAGE as many of you have asked to do

[Spartan]

Here is another great one from Demosthenes' "Third Philippic".
It is the paragraph just before the part where Demosthenes calls Philip a "Barbarian".


""Ay, and you know this also, that the wrongs which the Greeks suffered from the Lacedaemonians or from us, they suffered at all events at the hands of true-born sons of Greece, and they might have been regarded as the acts of a legitimate son, born to great possessions, who should be guilty of some fault or error in the management of his estate: so far he would deserve blame and reproach, yet it could not be said that it was not one of the blood, not the lawful heir who was acting thus.


So according to the FYROM beliefs since Demosthenes CLEARLY differentiates between the Spartans(Lacedaemonians) and the Greeks, the Spartans MUST NOT BE GREEK!

[Slayer]

Great work!