Philip V

[SARISA]

I just saw this in alt.news.macedonia. Lets see how you gonna spin this:

At the peace conference between the Romans (and the Greek/" envoys)
and the Macedonians, Philip V, the Macedonian king, replying to the
accusations from the Greeks/"Greeks", states the following:

" ... But what is most outrageous of all is that they (the Aetolians) should
attempt to put themselves on the same footing as the Romans and demand that
the MACEDONIANS WITHDRAW FROM THE WHOLE OF GREECE. ...In any case, he
continued, "WHAT IS THIS GREECE which you demand that I evacuate, and HOW DO
YOU DEFINE GREECE? Certainly MOST OF THE AETOLIANS (the Aetolian league)
THEMSELVES ARE NOT GREEKS. The countries of the AGRAAE, APPODOTAE and the
AMPHILOCHIANS CANNOT BE REGARDED AS GREEK. So do you allow me to remain in
these territories?"

Polibius - book 18 (This same event is also copied in Livy's book "The rise of the roman empire")

[Truth Bearer]

Sarissa do you know who Philip V was and in what era???

[Nikas]

You really don't want to go there do you?

I am glad you brought up that quote. It is a great rebuttal against the ludricous claims of your side that the Macedonians were "not" Greeks.

After all, it just goes to show that if the Aetolians of all people could not be considered Greeks, than it really illustrates that it was politics, demagoguery, and self-interes that determined who was Greek at any given time.

Macedonians calling Aetolians "non-Greeks"
Athenians calling Macedonians "non-Greeks"

Politics, politics, politics..

Incidentally,

Here's what else Philip V has to say (same passage you quoted but you conveniently left this part out):

“As for the people of Cius, it was not I who made war on them, but when Prusias did so I merely helped him to capture the city, and this was your fault as well. Time and again both I and the other Greek states sent envoys to ask you to remove from your statutes the law which allows you to take ‘plunder from plunder’, and you always replied that you would rather remove Aetolia from Aetolia than repeal this law”

Polybius, Book XVIII, Affairs in Greece,4

Or the even greater Philip II:

“These events convinced Philip of the cowardice and indolence of the Persians compared with his own military efficiency and that of the Macedonians; they also opened his eyes to the size and the magnificence of theprizes to be gained from such a war. Accordingly, no sooner had he obtained the avowed support of the rest of the Greeks for his enterprise than he found a suitable pretext in his ardent desire to avenge theinjuries which the Persians had previously inflicted on Greece.”

Polybius, Book III, The Second Punic War, 6

You see, you need to learn context and you need to forget the delusions of your neo-nationalist myth makers....

[Tsontos]

Originally Posted by SARISA

I just saw this in alt.news.macedonia. Lets see how you gonna spin this:

At the peace conference between the Romans (and the Greek/" envoys)
and the Macedonians, Philip V, the Macedonian king, replying to the
accusations from the Greeks/"Greeks", states the following:

" ... But what is most outrageous of all is that they (the Aetolians) should
attempt to put themselves on the same footing as the Romans and demand that
the MACEDONIANS WITHDRAW FROM THE WHOLE OF GREECE. ...In any case, he
continued, "WHAT IS THIS GREECE which you demand that I evacuate, and HOW DO
YOU DEFINE GREECE? Certainly MOST OF THE AETOLIANS (the Aetolian league)
THEMSELVES ARE NOT GREEKS. The countries of the AGRAAE, APPODOTAE and the
AMPHILOCHIANS CANNOT BE REGARDED AS GREEK. So do you allow me to remain in
these territories?"

Polibius - book 18 (This same event is also copied in Livy's book "The rise of the roman empire")

lol here Macedonians are calling other tribes non-Greek tribes and you think this vindicates your fantasies in what way?

[Spartan]

Sarisa,

as in my other post I have continuously mentioned to you, 'you need to understand the CONTEXT before trying to interpret history'!! Don't look at one phrase, line or paragraph and interpret what it means. Because without the rest you are only getting a small idea of what is being discussed.

Trust me when I tell you this, especially when it is my profession!

[Victor]

And correct me if Im wrong(ancient history is not my strong point) but was Philip V not king of the Balkan Macedonian Empire (Antigonid?) and were they not in perpetual rivalry with the Ptolemaic and Seleucid Macedonian Empires?

[terastios]

And then you woke up!
Answer the questions we asked in other threads....baboon!

Even IF we except that Macedonians were not Greeks...what does have to do with your misserable tribe that came in the area in 7th and 8th centuty A.C.?...BABOON!

[Ptolemy]

Originally Posted by SARISA

I just saw this in alt.news.macedonia. Lets see how you gonna spin this:

Of course parrot, can you do anything else than parroting whatever gibberish you will find online?? As you 've proved since your first day here, NO!!

At the peace conference between the Romans (and the Greek/" envoys)
and the Macedonians, Philip V, the Macedonian king, replying to the
accusations from the Greeks/"Greeks", states the following:

Polybios says "the Romans' allies" not "the Greeks envoys". How could he say it anyway!! They were only the representative of Attalos, the Rodian, the Achaian and the Aitolians.

From the other hand Philip had as his allies most of the Peloponnesians, the Boiotians, the Euboians, the Focians, the Lokrians, the Thessalians, and Epirotan. In other words my little parrot Philip had the rest of Greeks in their vast majority in his side.

" ... But what is most outrageous of all is that they (the Aetolians) should
attempt to put themselves on the same footing as the Romans and demand that the MACEDONIANS WITHDRAW FROM THE WHOLE OF GREECE.

A bre parrot. You can never stop showing you and your homies 've a divorce with history.

Polybius expresses the Roman understanding of the name assignment in the period he was living which has almost nothing to do with ethnicity.

In another passage he says:

Aulus the proconsul, who was at the time wintering in THESSALY, sent as legates to Greece C.Popilius and Cn.Octavius. They first came to Thebes

Polybios 28.2.3.1

Only a brainwashed west-bulgarian like you would conclude after reading it Thessalians were non-Greeks.

...In any case, he continued, "WHAT IS THIS GREECE which you demand that I evacuate, and HOW DO YOU DEFINE GREECE? Certainly MOST OF THE AETOLIANS (the Aetolian league) THEMSELVES ARE NOT GREEKS. The countries of the AGRAAE, APPODOTAE and the AMPHILOCHIANS CANNOT BE REGARDED AS GREEK. So do you allow me to remain in these territories?"

Polibius - book 18 (This same event is also copied in Livy's book "The rise of the roman empire")

Actually this shows how much widespread was as an insult into the greek-world, to call your enemy "non-Greek". Of course this came from Philip V who considered himself to be Greek. It also serves as a reminder that someone else had not made it to the Amphictiony.

[PhiliptheUniterchaeronea]

SARISA. Please do not throw a bone out like "... lets see how you spin this." It may seem pretty benign and not worth mentioning on the immediate surface, but we both know it is a major provocation. Lets be gentlemen please.

[SARISA]

Originally Posted by PhiliptheUniterchaeronea

SARISA. Please do not throw a bone out like "... lets see how you spin this." It may seem pretty benign and not worth mentioning on the immediate surface, but we both know it is a major provocation. Lets be gentlemen please.

Dear Philip, you must admit that it works though, since the spin we see borders amazing. I disagree that it is a major provocation. My hope is that it will provoke thought, nothing else.